Natural Attack Overload build.

[Heather 540]

Just for the fun of it, I want to make a character with an overload of natural attacks. I do already have one natural attack character, but I wanted to stick to a theme so I didn't put a bunch on him. Now I want to see just how many natural weapons I can get.

Of course, I'll want Pounce for full attacks as much as possible. From what I was told when I asked about it for my Warpriest, the fastest way to get pounce is the Shifter's Major Aspect at level 4. The two aspects that get pounce are deinonychus and tiger. I think I'll go with deinonychus as the alternate attacks are bite and talons while tiger only gets bite at the start.

I think I'll get claw attacks using race, so I'm looking at Tengu. One level of White-Haired Witch nets a Hair attack. After that it looks like Synthesist Summoner would be the best bet for gaining tons of natural weapons using the evolution pool. I assume the restriction of the eidolon's natural attacks only applies to what attack evolutions they can take at that level, right?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Wonderstell]

Weretouched Shifter Deinonychus gets five natural attacks and Pounce at level 4, and can still wear armor and use items while transformed. Keep in mind that it's still a polymorph effect no matter if you're Weretouched or not, so you'd lose your natural attacks given from race. Human is probably your best bet since they lose the least from transforming.

Polymorph wrote:

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

[Heather 540]

Hm, that's an interesting archetype.

[Firebug]

For getting natural attacks from race, I would suggest something harder to get then claws or bite.
You can get claws from a feat (Aspect of the Beast), weapon(Beaststrike Clubx2), necklace (Amulet of the Blooded-Abyssal), various class features (feral mutagen, etc), and probably a host of other things as well.
You can pick up a Gore attack from a Great(or normal)Helm of the Mammoth Lord.
You can get Bite from a few things already noted (Feral Mutagen, Beaststrike), trait (tusked, mother's teeth), spells(Hunger for Flesh not a polymorph effect, Savage Maw transmutation but not polymorph, etc), but I prefer the Ring of Rat Fangs.
You can even get a stinger/tail attack from Stinging Tail or the weapon version.
Wings are a bit harder, but if you don't mind sacrificing your armor bonus the Dread Wing enchantment is the probably the easiest. Aasimar can get wing attacks as a feat as well, from Metallic Wings.
Tentacles are a bit difficult as well, though Kraken Caller Druid has the majority. Its not clear if expending the use of Wild Shape to gain tentacles is a polymorph effect, though it probably should be something you ask your GM. Otherwise, Tentacle Cloak is probably your best bet, though limited to 1 minute a day (activated as a standard action). There are a few other classes/archetypes so getting tentacles from class is the best bet.
I am probably forgetting a few other natural attacks, but the moral of the story is that Hoof attacks are hard to get (just Brazen Hooves, which is 1 hoof attack a round) outside the Ragebred Skinwalker which can get 2.

So Ragebred (2 hoof), with 2 Beaststrike Clubs (2 claw), Dread Wing (2 wing), a Helm of the Mammoth Lord (1 gore), Ring of Rat Fangs (1 bite), and a Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail (1 sting) all on all day without any class features. 9 Natural Attacks and your class (and neck slot) is free, though the Ragebred Change Shape is likely a polymorph effect(though it doesn't say so).

[avr]

Scott Williams makes a lot of characters like this. Here's his last one.

[CloudCobra]

Personally, I'd go with a Mutant as race (People of the Wastes, p.8; Bestiary 5, p. 180). Since it's a template that goes over a starting race you could still start as a human for the extra feat and then change to an Aberration (augmented). You'll start off with one mutation and a deformity, but end up getting 5 more mutations later (at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level). Alas, you can't take celerity, extra arm, fast healing, mental armor, rage, rugged, sealed mind, or wings - super bummer.

I would then start the 1st level of the build as a Dragonblood Chymist archetype for Alchemist. Due to the fact that it starts off with the Breath weapon bomb alchemist discovery you technically start off with an Alchemist Discovery. You then take Extra Discovery (Monstrous Graft) as your human bonus feat and take Gorilla arms for a Slam attack of 1d6 and Deionychus legs for a Talon attack of 1d8. You'll have a -8 to Wisdom because of it, but - hey - it's a major natural attack boost. From the Mutant mutation take Slam attack to increase the damage of your Slam attack to 1d8.

Then take the Mutant Defender Vigilante and get yourself a Tail. Don't bother with any other attack mutations because you'll replace one attack on your arms. So focus on tentacles instead or getting mutation features that go hand-in-hand with Vigilante talents, like Shapeshifter.

NOW, the biggest problem is trying to get extra arms...and I have not been able to figure a way around that without starting off as a Kasatha. If you take that race in combination with Mutant, then follow the same as above but instead of Slam as a mutation you take Feral as your mutation instead. You now have a bite attack (1d6), two slams (1d4, but since a gorilla is a large creature they're technically 1d6 each), two claws (1d4 each), and 2 talons (1d4, but the Deionychus entry says 1d8 each)...and don't forget the technical breath weapon you have (1d6, 15-foot cone). That's even more than a Ragebred Skinwalker at Level 1!

If you take two levels of Barbarian you can take Lesser Fiend Totem to also get a gore attack. You'll also need 4 levels of Abyssal Bloodrager to be able to grow large (it's like Enlarge Person but also works on Aberrations) to increase your natural damage attacks.

[Heather 540]

I saw that.

[zza ni]

side note.
the op asked about synth summoner max number of nat attacks (like the one any eidolon have), that is for the number he can perform, not what he can have. so even having 6 attacks options at first level still mean he can't make them all.

[LordKailas]

I did a build that got 16 natural attacks by combining the Druid's Kraken Caller archetype along with the feats Tail Terror and Magical Tail. The build assumes that Tail Terror allows the character to make 1 attack with each tail gained from the feat magical tail. The last time a build like this was brought up some didn't feel two feats stack that way. So expect table variation.

[Derklord]

Heather 540 wrote:

Now I want to see just how many natural weapons I can get.

Do you want an actual build for actual play, or a purely theoretical build?

LordKailas wrote:

The build assumes that Tail Terror allows the character to make 1 attack with each tail gained from the feat magical tail.

I think no GM would ever rule that in your favor, because that's the opposite of how natural attack granting options work. RAW, it's a polymorph effect anway.

[LordKailas]

Derklord wrote:

LordKailas wrote:

The build assumes that Tail Terror allows the character to make 1 attack with each tail gained from the feat magical tail.

I think no GM would ever rule that in your favor, because that's the opposite of how natural attack granting options work. RAW, it's a polymorph effect anway.

With regard to the DM it's a fair statement. As for it being a polymorph effect, I wouldn't think kraken caller's tentacle growth ability would cause you to lose natural attacks based on your form as you specifically retain your original form when using this option.

Wildshape (Su) wrote:

A kraken caller’s options for wild shape are limited to animals with the aquatic or water subtype or that have the amphibious special quality. The kraken caller can alternatively expend a daily use of wild shape to grow tentacles out of her body while otherwise retaining her own form. This effect lasts for 10 minutes per level, or until the kraken caller changes back.

It does however mean that it's incompatible with other polymorph effects so it wouldn't stack with shifter very well.

[Derklord]

It's still Wild Shape, and it's refered to "While in this form". That makes in a polymorph effect. There are a bunch of polymorph effects that only change a small part of your body, but RAW, the whole set of polymorph rules applies in those situations.

Not that I'd necessarily rule it that way, and natural attacks and strict RAW are mortal enemies anyway. Nothing actually says you can't have multiple attacks on the same body part, and RAW, all polymorph spells/effects that list natural attacks grant those in addition to the ones possessed by the creature, so for isntance a Form of the Dragon spell grants up to 11 attacks.

[Heather 540]

Mostly theoretical but I would like it to be able to be played at some point. So pretty much the same for all of my characters. I just like building characters.

[JiaYou]

I'm pretty sure my level 4 Unsworn Shaman can already choose Prehensile Hair, Claws, and Wings as his current Hexes (simultaneously). Combine that with Bone Fists and Bull's Strength and you're having some fun...and you can still cast other things too!

If I had gone Half-Orc rather than Human I could have added a bite attack to that as well. And then you should add the obligatory gore attack.

[Heather 540]

Ok, so I was looking at the attacks again and I've decided something. I don't want to have multiples of the same natural weapon. I just want one of each that I can get. If I go with Synthesis Summoner I will take Limbs so I can get a Slam as well as Claws, and the Tail evolution twice for Tail Sting and Tail Slap, but I don't want a whole bunch of Tail Slaps.

[VoodistMonk]

As a DM, these builds make me puke a little bit in my mouth...

It's not the damage, I don't care...

11 attacks is why I hate you...

So does everyone else at the table waiting for your d@mn turn to end...

Honestly, nobody wants to wait for the TWF/Rapid Shot sh!t, either, but we do because they actually play into the game within the so-called "6-second rounds"... while your bear-squid is still swinging, attacking, was that a critical, does that have grab, b-llsh!tt!ng away...

PS. I do like most of your character builds.

My table seems to ask the right questions/makes the rolls to know AC/DR/blah-blah-blah each turn, and the Zen Archer/Inquisitor just tells me whatever tremendous sum of damage she done dealt, and that goes for most of my table... the Slayer, the Rogue, the Druid...

We still talk about what's going on and how it is going down, but they are already rolling their dice and have their entire turn plotted with an occasional does a 36 confirm?

Yes, a 36 confirms.

Ok, 175 damage.

Next.

It all happens in a normal, not 11 attacks plus grabs and crits and Rapid Grappler pins and whatever else Munchkin Madness Adopted Orc Tooth Trait Shenanigans these builds lead to...

[JiaYou]

I agree. I had a Gibbering Mouth in a session last month, and I just rolled all the attacks in Combat Manager because rolling them individually on the board would have been too painful for everyone...

[Heather 540]

VoodistMonk wrote:

As a DM, these builds make me puke a little bit in my mouth...

It's not the damage, I don't care...

11 attacks is why I hate you...

So does everyone else at the table waiting for your d@mn turn to end...

.....

PS. I do like most of your character builds.

.....

You should have seen my Hunter in play. Dex to attack and damage with Outflank, Pack Flanking, Precise Strike, Paired Opportunist, and Combat Reflexes and a Holy Thundering Flame Keen Scimitar with a Bane Baldric. There was a LOT of "Did it confirm?" Followed by a lot of dice rolling if it did. It got to the point where if I confirmed a single crit and whatever I was fighting had less than 100 HP, the GM said it was dead because he didn't want to deal with all the math.

Also, thank you. After this I think I'll try Spider-Man again. I didn't get very far with it last time. And then maybe FINALLY figure out the Flash.

I don't really care too much about grabs and such. Just a bunch of hit, hit, and hit it again is good enough.

[VoodistMonk]

Heather 540 wrote:

...
Also, thank you. After this I think I'll try Spider-Man again. I didn't get very far with it last time. And then maybe FINALLY figure out the Flash.
...

Figure out the Flash?

Barry Allen?

UnChained Monk

Human

Traits
Regional: Paragon of Speed, duh

1. Improved Initiative
1(Monk). Combat Reflexes
1(Human). Weapon Finesse
2(Monk). Dodge
3. Panther Style
5. Panther Claw
6(Monk). Mobility
7. Panther Parry
9. Dimensional Agility
10(Monk). Spring Attack
11. Circling Mongoose
13. Dimensional Assault
14(Monk). Medusa's Wrath
15. Dimensional Dervish
17. Dimensional Savant
18(Monk). Improved Critical?
19. Piranha Strike?

Relying heavily on the Monk's scaling Fast Movement and Abundant Step Ki Power to be the fastest man alive.

Lots of Ki and a Ring of Ki Mastery to represent the Speed Force.

Having Panther Parry fully online before Circling Mongoose just makes sense.

If the Guided enchantment is allowed to put Wisdom to attack and damage, then you can retrain Weapon Finesse to Iron Will or something.

That's what I came up with a while ago, and never finished.

[Dubious Scholar]

LordKailas wrote:

I did a build that got 16 natural attacks by combining the Druid's Kraken Caller archetype along with the feats Tail Terror and Magical Tail. The build assumes that Tail Terror allows the character to make 1 attack with each tail gained from the feat magical tail. The last time a build like this was brought up some didn't feel two feats stack that way. So expect table variation.

Tail Terror is a Kobold feat though and Magical Tail is Kitsune? Am I missing something?

[LordKailas]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

LordKailas wrote:

I did a build that got 16 natural attacks by combining the Druid's Kraken Caller archetype along with the feats Tail Terror and Magical Tail. The build assumes that Tail Terror allows the character to make 1 attack with each tail gained from the feat magical tail. The last time a build like this was brought up some didn't feel two feats stack that way. So expect table variation.

Tail Terror is a Kobold feat though and Magical Tail is Kitsune? Am I missing something?

Kitsune are shapechangers that can look human, meaning they can take the feat Human Guise. Now that they count as human they can take the feat Racial Heritage so they can count as a kobold. This then qualifies them to take tail terror.

[VoodistMonk]

Munchkin madness at its best...

[Heather 540]

I will look at that build for sure. But for now, I have RAW to figure out. Can I use natural attacks from other sources while wearing the eidolon via synthesist summoner? On the myth-weaver forum, some people are saying yes while others are saying no.

[Heather 540]

I'm using the search function on Archives of Nethys to look for races with natural attacks that aren't bite and claws. I'm listing them here so I'll be able to take look through them more thoroughly later without having to bookmark them all.

Cecaelia - 2 tentacles, 1d4 each, primary, reach ten feet.

Skinwalker - Boar - Gore 1d6, 2 hoofs 1d4 each

Skinwalker - Raptor - Bite 1d6, 2 talons 1d4 each. (Less likely to take as class features and items can get both.)

That's.... all of them, it looks like. How many different natural weapons are there?

As mentioned by Firebug, aasimars can get wing attacks with Metallic Wings, but that requires a total of 4 feats which is quite a bit just for wings.

[Firebug]

Heather 540 wrote:

As mentioned by Firebug, aasimars can get wing attacks with Metallic Wings, but that requires a total of 4 feats which is quite a bit just for wings.

Which is why I mentioned the +5 armor enchant Dread Wing as easier.

For Skinwalker, you choose one of the abilties, ie you choose 2 hoof attacks or 1 gore (or scent, or +10 move speed) at a time with Change Shape. Unless you take the Extra Feature feat to gain 2 at a time(or more since the feat stacks with itself).

[Dragonborn3]

My usual build for this is Ragebred Skinwalker, Ranger 2.

Extra Feature and Natural Combat Style(Aspect of the Beast) nets you five attacks at level 2. Gore, Claw, Claw, Hoof, Hoof.

Since they have a true form that looks human they can make use of Human Guise and Racial Heritage but getting a tail is more difficult for them. They could take Wildling at level one to get a tail though, as the flavor text does imply you might have one, but this pushes Extra Feature back to level 3, Racial Heritage(Kobold) to 5, and so on.

[Derklord]

LordKailas wrote:

Kitsune are shapechangers that can look human, meaning they can take the feat Human Guise. Now that they count as human they can take the feat Racial Heritage so they can count as a kobold. This then qualifies them to take tail terror.

Or you take the feat Lashing Tail instead of tail terror.

Heather 540 wrote:

Mostly theoretical but I would like it to be able to be played at some point. So pretty much the same for all of my characters. I just like building characters.

Well, if you want an actually efficient character, that has distinctly different demands than a purely theorycrafting build. Pounce (because having a million attacks is worthless if you have to move and can make only one), saves, AC/defenses, and ways to handle non-vanilla enemies (flying/unreachable, invisible, etc.).

Heather 540 wrote:

How many different natural weapons are there?

Without polymorphing into something with weird ones that you might or might not get, Bite (P), Claw (P), Gore (P), Slam (P), Sting (P), Talons (P), Hoof (S), Tentacle (S), Wing (S), Pincers (S), Tail Slap (S). Others that I can think of are White Haired Witch's White Hair ability (P), and the Prehensile Hair hex (S).

Heather 540 wrote:

Can I use natural attacks from other sources while wearing the eidolon via synthesist summoner?

According to this FAQ, no. That FAQ actually goes against the regular Eidolon description, which has the maximum natural attack number only be checked when selecting evolutions; but since FAQs overrule book rules, I guess that completely rule Synthesist out. It also means a Synthesist can't make an extra natural attack with Haste...

[LordKailas]

Derklord wrote:

LordKailas wrote:

Kitsune are shapechangers that can look human, meaning they can take the feat Human Guise. Now that they count as human they can take the feat Racial Heritage so they can count as a kobold. This then qualifies them to take tail terror.

Or you take the feat Lashing Tail instead of tail terror.

Yep, one less feat but you lose the ability to use tail attachment weapons. So, it really depends if that matters to you or not.

To the OP, if you want to use a race that doesn't come with a certain natural attack you want. You can pick up a bite attack via the traits Adopted and Tusked. Taking the feats Wilding and Aspect of the Beast can give you claws and you can pick up a gore attack via Helm of the Mammoth Lord. I mention these as it potentially frees up racial options for you and/or reduces the need to multi-class depending on what you're looking for.

[Heather 540]

Ok, so synthesist summoner might be out. If I can't use all the attacks, there's no point.

Lashing Tail says that you can't make other natural attacks in the same round as the tail slap. So I'd rather not do that. There's a Tiefling feat that does the same with Gore.

Since I can get Gore with the helm, I think I'll pass on Extra Features and just take the hoof attacks. Now I just need to figure out a way to gain extra arms and legs to get pincers and claws and slam and talons without using the synthesist. I think I read that alchemists can do that. Is that right?

So it looks like there's not much outside of the table other than a hair attack. Alright, that makes it easier to plan out.

Those traits do look handy, even with turning the bite attack into a secondary attack.

And yeah, I already plan on getting pounce.

[Firebug]

It comes up in almost every 'extra attacks' thread.
No. The Alchemist Discovery does not allow you to make additional attacks beyond your normal amount.
It can allow you to wield a shield, and to give you more options (a longbow in 2 hands and a spear in another 2), but not additional attacks(you could use them for iteratives, but not two weapon fighting).
Find a different way to add more arms.

[Heather 540]

I see. Now I just gotta figure out how.

I think I might go Skinwalker Raptor and get the talons, and use Tiger aspect to get bite and claws. Using the deinonychus would double the talons or replace the hoofs from Skinwalker Boar. Unless I go Gore with the skinwalker boar and then can use deinonychus.

[CloudCobra]

Kasatha (Bestiary 4 pg. 174, People of the Stars pg. 8)

Spoiler:

+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom: Kasathas are nimble and sharply perceptive.
Kasatha: Kasathas are humanoids with the kasatha subtype.
Medium: Kasathas are Medium creatures and have no bonuses are penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Kasathas have a base speed of 30 feet.
Defensive Training: Kasathas have a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Desert Runner: A kasatha has a +4 racial bonus on Constitution checks and Fortitude saves to avoid fatigue, exhaustion, and other ill effects from running, forced marches, starvation, thirst, and hot or cold environments.
Desert Stride: A kasatha moves through nonmagical difficult terrain in desert environments at normal speed.
Jumper: A kasatha is always considered to have a running start when attempting Acrobatics checks to jump.
Multi-Armed: A kasatha has four arms. One hand is considered its primary hand; all others are considered off hands. It can use any of its hands for other purposes that require free hands.
Stalker: Perception and Stealth are class skills for kasathas.
Languages: Kasathas speak Common and Kasatha. Kasathas with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Dwarven, Draconic, Gnoll, Orc, and Sphinx.

Mutant (People of the Wastes, p.8; Bestiary 5, p. 180)

Spoiler:

"Mutant" is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature. A mutant retains the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Challenge Rating: Base creature’s CR + 1.

Type: The creature’s type changes to aberration (augmented). Do not recalculate its Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves.

Attacks: A mutant retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon and armor proficiencies of the base creature.

Special Abilities: A mutant retains any extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the base creature.

Abilities: A mutant gains a +4 bonus to two ability scores of its choice and takes a –2 penalty to two ability scores of its choice.

Skills: A mutant gains Climb, Intimidate, Knowledge (any one), Perception, Sense Motive, Survival, and Swim as class skills.

Deformities: Each mutant has one of the following deformities. It can take a second deformity to gain a mutation as detailed in Mutations. A deformity can’t be taken if it wouldn’t disadvantage the mutant.

Vulnerability [Sonic] (Ex): The mutant is vulnerable to one energy type. If the base creature has innate resistance or immunity to that energy type, it loses those abilities.

Character build:

Spoiler:

Race: Mutant Kasatha (Aberration) [augmented]
STR +4 Template
DEX +6 (+2 Race + 4 Template)
CON
INT -2 Template
WIS -6 [-8 (Monstrous Grafts) + 2 Race]
CHA -2 Template

HP: 8
Alchemist 1 (Dragonblood Chymist)
Level 1 Feat: Extra Discovery (Monstrous Graft)
Level 1 Mutation: Feral (Bite attack, 2 claws)
BAB: +0
F/R/W = 2/2/0
Level 1 Abilities: Alchemy, bomb 1d6, Brew Potion, Dragonblood Mutagen
Extracts per Day: 1 x 1st Level
Dragonblood Mutagen: +2 natural armor bonus and a +2 alchemical bonus to STR for 10 minutes.
Explosive Breath: 1d6 + INT mod. [(1 + INT mod) / day] {15-foot cone} |Ref DC = 10 + INT mod. for half damage; does NOT provoke an AoO|

HP: 11
Level 1 Witch (White-Haired Witch)
Level 2 Abilities: Cantrips, Witch's familiar, White Hair (Su)
Spells per Day: 3 x 0 Level, 1 x 1 level
White Hair (Su): Hair as primary natural weapon (1d4 + INT mod.); grapple as a free action without AoO; does not gain grappled condition
BAB +0
F/R/W = 2/2/2

HP: 16
Fighter 1 (Mutation Warrior, Savage Warrior)
Level 3 Abilities: Power Attack (Fighter bonus feat)
Level 3 feat: Spirit Oni Master (1d4 primary gore attack)
BAB +1
F/R/W = 4/2/2

HP: 21
Bloodrager 1 (Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy, Primalist, Untouchable Rager)
Level 4 Abilities: Abyssal Bloodline, Bloodrage
Pugilist (Ex): Gain Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.
Claws (Su): 1d6 + STR mod while bloodraging.
Level 4 Mutation [Gills (Ex)]: The mutant has the aquatic subtype, the amphibious ability, and a swim speed equal to its base speed.
BAB +2
F/R/W = 5/2/2

HP: 25
Vigilante 1 (Mutant Defender)
Level 5 feat: Blood Frenzy Style
Level 5 Abilities: Dual Identity (Ex), Seamless Guise (Ex),
Owl's Sight (Ex) [Gain Low-light vision; +2 competence bonus on Sleight of Hand and Stealth checks at night]
BAB +3
F/R/W = 5/4/4

HP: 29
Vigilante 2
Level 6 Abilities: Mutant Evolution (Tail)
BAB +4
F/R/W = 5/5/5

HP: 33
Vigilante 3
Level 7 feat: Multiattack
Level 7 Abilities: Unshakable, Safe House (Ex)
BAB +5
F/R/W = 6/5/5

HP: 37
Vigilante 4
Level 8 Abilities: Mutant Evolution (Tail Slap)
Level 8 Mutation [Echolocation (Ex)]: The mutant has blindsense with a range of 30 feet and gains Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.
BAB +6/+1
F/R/W = 6/6/6

Magic Items:
Wings of Darkness (Fleshcraft graft) [Horror Adventures, p. ]
Cost: 36,000 gp
The subject gains leathery, batlike wings on its back, granting it a fly speed of 60 feet (with an average maneuverability) as well as a +5 competence bonus on Fly checks.
Penalty: –2 penalty on all Dexterity-based skill checks and ability checks except Fly checks.

or

Wicked Wings (Demonic Implant) [Pathfinder #74: Sword of Valor pg. 74]
Cost: 55,000 gp
The recipient gains a fly speed equal to its normal land speed with average maneuverability. In addition, when not flying a creature with wicked wings is considered to have Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat.
Caveat: The recipient’s shoulder blades and collarbones must be broken in order to attach the wicked wings resulting in 2d4 points of Strength and Dexterity damage, which renders two arms useless until the ability damage is healed.

HP: 41
Vigilante 5
Level 9 feat: Blood Frenzy Strike
Level 9 Abilities: Startling Appearance, Skill Familiarity (Ex)
BAB +7/+2
F/R/W = 6/6/6

HP: 45
Vigilante 6
Level 10 Abilities: Mutant Evolution (Wing Buffet)
[Learn to batter foes with wings; 1d4; secondary attack]
BAB +8/+3
F/R/W = 7/7/7

HP: 50
Fighter 2
Level 11 Abilities: Spark of Life (Ex)
Level 2 Fighter Feat: Bloody Assault
BAB +9/+4
F/R/W = 9/7/7

HP: 55
Fighter 3
Level 12 Feat: Extra Discovery (Vestigial Arm)
Level 12 Abilities: Mutagen (Su)
Level 12 Mutation [Resistance (Ex)] Resistance 10 to a single energy type.
BAB +10/+5
F/R/W = 9/8/8

HP: 60
Bloodrager 2
Level 13 Abilities: Blood Frenzy Assault feat (Combat Style Student)
BAB +11/+6/+1
F/R/W = 10/8/8

HP: 65
Fighter 4
Level 14 Abilities: Critical Focus
BAB +12/+7/+2
F/R/W = 11/8/8

HP: 70
Fighter 5
Level 15 Feat: Extra Discovery (Vestigial Arm)
Level 15 Abilities: Natural Savagery (Ex)
BAB +13/+8/+3
F/R/W = 11/8/8

HP: 74
Vigilante 7
Level 16 Abilities: Quick Change (Ex)
Level 16 Mutation [Resistance (Ex)] Resistance 10 to a single energy type.
BAB +14/+9/+4
F/R/W = 11/8/8

HP: 79
Bloodrager 3
Level 17 Feat: Improved Natural Attack (Talons)
Level 17 Abilities: Blood Sanctuary, Hand-to-Hand Training (Ex)
BAB +15/+10/+5
F/R/W = 11/9/9

HP: 83
Vigilante 8
Level 18 Abilities: Mutant Evolution (Bleed) [Talons]
BAB +16/+11/+6/+1
F/R/W = 11/9/9

HP: 88
Bloodrager 4
Level 19 Abilities: Demonic Bulk (Su), Raging Resistance (Ex) [Spell Resistance 12]
BAB +17/+12/+7/+2
F/R/W = 12/9/9

Fighter 6
Level 20 Abilities: Bleeding Critical
Level 20 Mutation: Telepathy
BAB +18/+13/+8/+3
F/R/W = 13/10/10

So we have:
1 x Bite (primary) - 1d6
1 x Hair (primary) - 1d4
1 x Gore (primary) - 1d4
2 x Slam (primary) - 1d6 each
2 x Claws (primary) - 1d4 each
2 x Talons (primary) - 1d8 each at first, 2d6 each later
2 x Wing Buffet (secondary) - 1d4 each
1 x Tail Slap (secondary) - 1d6
Total: 12

if Necrografts or Fleshgrafts can be used on Vestigial Arms then:

1 x Bite (primary) - 1d6
1 x Hair (primary) - 1d4
1 x Gore (primary) - 1d4
2 x Claws (primary) - 1d4 each
2 x Talons (primary) - 1d8 each at first, 2d6 each later
2 x Slam (secondary) - 1d4 each
2 x Tentacles (secondary) - 1d4 each
2 x Wing Buffet (secondary) - 1d4 each
1 x Tail Slap (secondary) - 1d6
Total: 14

Additional Attacks through Magic Items: 5
Wyvern Cloak (Sting Attack; 1d6 + poison) [78,600 gp]
otherwise a Tentacle Cloak [14,000 gp]
2 x Ring of Rat Fangs (Bite; 1d4 each) [5,000 gp each]
Lions Shield (Bite 3/day; 2d6) [9,170 gp] <- when using Unarmed Strikes and/or if your DM only allows your vestigial arms to hold stuff
Tiger's Hide [54,115 gp] (pounce during 1st round of combat)
Anaconda's Coils Belt [18,500 gp] (Constrict; 1d6 + STR mod)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (enhancement bonus to unarmed & natural attacks; grants weapon special abilities to those attacks)

Where it gets a little iffy is the interaction between the Vestigial Arms alchemist discovery and Necrograft arms or Grasping Tendril Fleshcraft grafts. The Devs have said on multiple occasions that Vestigial Arms do not grant extra attacks, and in conjunction with a Beastmorph Alchemist you're still not changing the amount of attacks eventhough those Vestigial arms get claws from the mutagen. But nothing has been said on that subject since...

The difficulty comes in determining what functionality of an arm you get that are not explicitly mentioned from the new stuff. The rules text never says anything about the necrograft arm behaving like a normal arm. Likewise, the Fleshgraft seems to imply that any arm could potentially be replaced and act like a normal arm. There isn’t even a general statement that necrograft arms act just like the organ they replace, except as mentioned. But this is certainly implied—if it weren’t so, the necrograft arm couldn’t really be used for anything but lifting or slamming, making the “clumsy” penalties rather redundant. Likewise, since we are not placing the Grasping Tendril on the chest slot by itself, it specifically says that when it replaces an arm it acts as an arm (vestigial or otherwise).

As the vestigial arms discovery itself shows, Paizo does tend to indicate when an arm cannot be used to swing a weapon—in normal circumstances, I certainly would have every expectation that the necrograft arm could be used to wield weapons, and the Grasping Tendril can do so at a penalty as well. However, we have yet to get an answer regarding Necrografts, Fleshgrafts or Monstrous Grafts attached to those bloody things...

Grasping Tendril

Spoiler:

Cost: 22,500 gp
If grafted as a replacement for a lost arm, this tendril functions as an arm, and if it isn’t holding anything, a Medium creature can use the tendril as a secondary natural attack dealing 1d4 points of damage.

Necrograft Arm

Spoiler:

Cost: 12,000 gp
An arm of undead flesh allows its host to lift up to 1-1/2 times his maximum load over his head. A humanoid with two necrograft arms can lift up to twice his maximum load over his head. Each necrograft arm also provides its host with a natural slam attack (replacing any natural attacks that limb may have once had) that deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage as a secondary attack. A necrograft arm is clumsy, imposing a cumulative –2 circumstance penalty on all Craft, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand checks per limb replaced, as well as on relevant Perform checks (such as for stringed instruments and wind instruments).

The way I see it, if you're investing that large of an amount of your resources you ought to be able to get two additional natural attacks. You're basically trading 2 primaries for 4 secondaries.

[Minigiant]

I recently put this Aasimar Ratfolk build together

[Scott Wilhelm]

VoodistMonk wrote:

As a DM, these builds make me puke a little bit in my mouth...

It's not the damage, I don't care...

11 attacks is why I hate you...

My Druidzilla Build that favors Giant Octopus gets 23.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I was just thinking of another way to do Natural Attack Overload: Conqueror Ooze.

A level 10 Cave Druid can Wildshape into Size Medium Oozes. A Carnivorous Crystal Ooze Slam Attack does 7d8.

If she cast's Strong Jaw, she does 11d8, I think.

If she takes Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, and Greater Vital Strike, that's 22, 33, and 44d8.

*giggling*

If she dips into Barbarian and takes the Furious Finish Feat, then she automatically does Maximum Damage!

Let's say you take Recovered Rage. Now you get your Rage back unless your opponent survives 352 points of Damage he just took.

What else should this character take? Power Attack and Furious Focus? Make him a Halfling so she can also take Risky Striker!

[Scott Wilhelm]

avr wrote:

Scott Williams makes a lot of characters like this. Here's his last one.

I was just thinking about a variant on that.

I have a GM who ruled that a Druid that Wildshapes into an Aquatic Animal loses the ability to breathe air, so a more flexible approach is necessary.

Also, the Giant Octopus is not really effective without Multiattack, and Multiattack is not available in PFS.

So, make your first level is in Brawler instead of Barbarian.

At level 3 Warpriest you get a Bonus Feat. Make that Bonus Feat Martial Versatility. That lets you apply any single weapon-specific feat such as Weapon Focus to any weapon in the same Fighter weapon group, such as Natural or Close. Now you can do your Sacred Weapon Damage with any Natural Attack you get.

[Heather 540]

4 arms, hm? That could be useful. Put claws on the first two arms, then something else on the others. Although I can't tell where you got the slam attacks from.

[CloudCobra]

Heather 540 wrote:

4 arms, hm? That could be useful. Put claws on the first two arms, then something else on the others. Although I can't tell where you got the slam attacks from.

It actually comes from the feat Extra Discovery. You then choose the Alchemist discovery - Monstrous Graft (Inner Sea Monster Codex, p. 23). Right at Level 1 you then switch out one set of the Kasatha arms for Gorilla arms (Pathfinder Bestiary, p. 17), which provide a slam attack. At the same time you switch out the legs for the ones from a Deionychus (Pathfinder Bestiary, p. 84) for the talons (because you can switch out up to 4 limbs). It kinda makes the character look like a Shokan from Mortal Kombat with one set of arms being longer than the other.

The only way this works right off the bat is because the Dragonblood Chymist archetype for Alchemist creates a loophole by giving the player the Breath weapon bomb alchemist discovery. You thus have the Discovery class feature necessary to take Extra Discovery. Depending on the GM you could even keep the primary slam arms and just attach the Grasping Tendrils to the Vestigial Arms. I just threw in the Necrografts arms and Fleshcraft tendrils as a compromise, because they're both things that have not been covered yet in the FAQs.

Also, now that I think about it, you can add two more Rat Fang rings by having them made as slotless items. Way more expensive, but - hey - two more bite attacks. Also, I forgot the Fungal grafts (Alchemy Manual, p.10) for the wrist slot.

Reaching Vines:

Spoiler:

Cost: 4,000 gp
Cytillesh spores seeded beneath the subject’s skin enable the subject to extend and contract fungal vines from its wrists and forearms at will. The subject gains two vine attacks per round, which count as secondary natural attacks with a reach of 10 feet. These vines deal no damage, but the fungal-grafted creature can attempt to pull a struck target up to 5 feet toward itself, as the pull universal monster ability (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 303).

Updated list:

Spoiler:

1 x Bite (primary) - 1d6
1 x Hair (primary) - 1d4
1 x Gore (primary) - 1d4
2 x Slam (primary) - 1d6 each
2 x Bite (primary) - 1d4 each (2 x Ratfang Ring)
2 x Claws (primary) - 1d4 each
2 x Bite (primary) - 1d4 each (2 x Ratfang Ring)
2 x Talons (primary) - 1d8 each at first, 2d6 each later
1 x Tail Sting (primary) - 1d6 + poison (Wyvern Cloak)
4 x Vines (secondary) - no damage, but 10 ft. reach + pull (Reaching Vines fungal graft)
2 x Tentacles (secondary) - 1d4 each (Grasping Tendrils fleshgraft)
2 x Wing Buffet (secondary) - 1d4 each (after gaining Fleshgraft or Demonic graft)
1 x Tail Slap (secondary) - 1d6
1 x Constrict (special attack) - 1d6 (after grapple with hair) {Anaconda Coils belt}
Total: 24

[Heather 540]

I will definitely keep all of that in mind.

[VoodistMonk]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I was just thinking of another way to do Natural Attack Overload: Conqueror Ooze.

A level 10 Cave Druid can Wildshape into Size Medium Oozes. A Carnivorous Crystal Ooze Slam Attack does 7d8.

If she cast's Strong Jaw, she does 11d8, I think.

If she takes Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, and Greater Vital Strike, that's 22, 33, and 44d8.

*giggling*

If she dips into Barbarian and takes the Furious Finish Feat, then she automatically does Maximum Damage!

Let's say you take Recovered Rage. Now you get your Rage back unless your opponent survives 352 points of Damage he just took.

What else should this character take? Power Attack and Furious Focus? Make him a Halfling so she can also take Risky Striker!

The Cave Druid/Carnivorous Crystal build is such a blue falcon if you are in a party.

I really wish people would stop pushing this nonsense.

I turn into a Carnivorous Crystal... every living thing within 60' of me must make a Fortitude save or be Stunned.

Sorry teammates.

Wow, thanks Druid. I sure am glad you are in the party... says no stunned ally, ever.

Stupid Cave Druid.

I would Coup de Grace you in your sleep on my guard shift if I survived the encounter in which you forced me to make a save because of your stupid Wildshape choices.

[Derklord]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I really wish people would stop pushing this nonsense.

I turn into a Carnivorous Crystal... every living thing within 60' of me must make a Fortitude save or be Stunned.

Sorry teammates.

Before you talk about "pushing this nonsense", you should read the polymorph rules. The Subsonic Hum ability is not listed in the Beast Shape III description, and thus a Cave Druid doesn't get it.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

If she cast's Strong Jaw, she does 11d8, I think.

16d6, actually. 7d8 is treated as 8d6 on the table.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Derklord wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

If she cast's Strong Jaw, she does 11d8, I think.

16d6, actually. 7d8 is treated as 8d6 on the table.

Even better!

It was pointed out to me that Furious Finish still imposes Fatigue, and you can't go back into Rage while Fatigued, even if Recovered Rage gives you the Round back. Lesser Restoration removes Fatigue, but it has a Casting Time of 3 Rounds, and that includes if you use a Wand. You could swig a Potion of Lesser Restoration as a Standard Action or as a Move Action if you have a Feat, but that puts nearly a full round between your attacks, so it might be better to pass on that until you think the combat will be ended.

An idea was advanced that there is an Ioun Stone that changed Fatigued to Sickened, but I'm not so sure that will work: Furious Finish says you become Fatigued even if you normally wouldn't be.

[Derklord]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

An idea was advanced that there is an Ioun Stone that changed Fatigued to Sickened, but I'm not so sure that will work: Furious Finish says you become Fatigued even if you normally wouldn't be.

I'm pretty sure that part is about Tireless Rage (and similar abilities). In any case, if you want to go truly crazy with a Cave Druid, you dip into unMonk, take Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training, and make 3 attacks + Haste with your 16d6 slam, only using Vital Strike when actually moving.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Derklord wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

An idea was advanced that there is an Ioun Stone that changed Fatigued to Sickened, but I'm not so sure that will work: Furious Finish says you become Fatigued even if you normally wouldn't be.

I'm pretty sure that part is about Tireless Rage (and similar abilities). In any case, if you want to go truly crazy with a Cave Druid, you dip into unMonk, take Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training, and make 3 attacks + Haste with your 16d6 slam, only using Vital Strike when actually moving.

Ooh, Flurry of Slams

[Heather 540]

Two Wildshape effects can't be used at the same time though, right? I still want Pounce so I can move and full-attack if I need to. And the fastest way to get that is Shifter. Using the Aspect forms is considered Wildshape.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Heather 540 wrote:

Two Wildshape effects can't be used at the same time though, right? I still want Pounce so I can move and full-attack if I need to. And the fastest way to get that is Shifter. Using the Aspect forms is considered Wildshape.

I just realized that Allosauruses have Pounce and Rake. They also have Grab (Bite).

I wasn't very interested in Pounce, myself: I just was looking for a Huge Animal that got lots of Attacks to augment with Sacred Weapon Damage.

I still recommend the dip in White Haired Witch. Even though the Grapple Mod for White Hair is enhanced by Intelligence, not Strength, it has the advantage that when you Grapple someone in your White Hair, you are not Grappled, only your opponent is, and that has got to come in handy. Plus, the fact that your build would be inevitiably Intelligence-dumping will be offset by the fact that Allosauruses are Size Huge with a +4 on the Grapple Mod, They have Grab which gives you another +4 on all Grapple Checks, not just the Bite, and Witches get Familiars, and the King Crab Familiar gives you a +2 on your Grapple Checks. So, too bad about not being able to use your Strength with 1 of your Grapple checks, but that +10 should be a comfort, and that's before taking Improved and Greater Grapple, getting Armbands of the Brawler, and putting the Brawling Enchantment or the Adhesive Enchantment on your Barding (plus your bonus from your Amulet of Mighty Fists. Anyway, White Hair is an extra Natural Attack, and who doesn't want an extra Attack?

Also, If you start your round with your opponent Grappled, every subsequent successful Grapple check lets you make those 2 Talon Attacks. White Hair gives you a Grapple. That Bite gives you a Grapple. If you take Hamatula Strike, your Gore Attack gets a Grapple. I'm recommending you get your Gore Attack via an Animal Mask or a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, now, not via 2 levels in Barbarian. The only Barbarian that allows you to cast spells Warpriest Spells while Raging is Dreadnaught, and Dreadnaughts, as Derklord pointed out, can't charge while Raging. And while I was not seeking out a Pounce build, it seems like we got one. If you take Weapon Versatility for your Claws and your Talons, you get to do Piercing Damage with them, too. In addition, if your Barding has Armor Spikes, they inflict Damage with every successful Grapple Attack. At this point, your base Full Attack is Bite/Hair/Gore/2 Claws, every one of which delivers a Grapple Attack with every hit, every one does Armor Spike Damage, and every one triggers 2 Talon Attacks with Rake. And with Hamatula Strike + Weapon Versatility, they do Piercing Damage, too, and they also trigger Grapples which also do Armor Spike Damage and also trigger 2 more Talon Attacks!

I bet my GM is going to wish he let me play a Goblin....

[Derklord]

Heather 540 wrote:

Two Wildshape effects can't be used at the same time though, right?

Correct, although it's not just Wild Shape, but any kind of polymorph effect. The Skinwalker's Change Shape ability is a polymorph effect as well, as per the general monster rules.

Any polymorph effect also removes all your preexisting natural attacks, which might do more harm than good if you're actually going for maximum number of different natural attacks. So a Ragebred Skinwalker Shifter with Adopted -> Tusked (ignoring for a second how ridiculously cheesy it is to use "adopted" to get something based purely on biology) would lose the bite when transforming into bestial form, and again lose the hooves when using the Shifter's Wild Shape ability.

Non-permanent class features and other options still work, e.g. Rage Powers of Feral Mutagen. RAW, Helm of the Mammoth Lord still works in polymorph form, but don't expect any GM to let that fly for forms that merge equipment. Still, gore is one of the easier natural attacks to obtain. The Chaos Reigns feat also still works and takes care of the slam. Harder attacks to get are Sting (P), Talon (P), Hoof (S), Tentacle (S), Wing (S), Pincer (S), and Tail Slap (S).

Shifter Alternate Natural Attacks can grant you two of these, if you don't polymorph (or use Weretouhced Shifter). Options with two unusual attacks are Pincers+Sting (Scorpion), Tail Slap + Wings (Dragon), and Sting + Pincers (Swarm).

When using Wild Shape (including from Weretouched Shifter), the Mutated Shape feat can grant a sting or talon, without needing a respective body part.

A Weretouched Shifter 4 Barbarian 2 using Deinonychus Formm Lesser Fiend Totem, and the Chaos Reigns and Mutated Shape feats has Bite, 2 Claws, 2 Talons, Sting, Gore, and Slam. That's all the regular primary attacks (could easily add White Haired Witch), on a character that not only works, but is very efficient thanks to pounce, full BAB, and Rage.

Heather 540 wrote:

Lashing Tail says that you can't make other natural attacks in the same round as the tail slap. So I'd rather not do that.

Well, you never said you wanted to make those natural attacks, just have them... OK, joke's aside, I forgot about that part, and didn't re-read the whole feat. Sorry about that!

[Scott Wilhelm]

Derklord wrote:

RAW, Helm of the Mammoth Lord still works in polymorph form, but don't expect any GM to let that fly for forms that merge equipment.

You'd have to take the Helm off, then Polymorph, then put the helm back on.

Derklord wrote:

Any polymorph effect also removes all your preexisting natural attacks, which might do more harm than good

I was thinking in terms of taking the Martial Versatility Feat, which allows you to apply a your weapon-specific feat to all the feats in the same weapon group. So in order to inflict Sacred Weapon Damage with all your natural attacks, take Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, then take Martial Versatility Weapon Focus. Then you have Weapon Focus for all the weapons in both the Natural Weapon Group and the Close Weapon Group (Armor Spikes).

Heather 540 wrote:

Lashing Tail says that you can't make other natural attacks in the same round as the tail slap. So I'd rather not do that.

I seem to recall the existence of a magic item called a Fleshwarped Whip or a Fleshwarped Tail. You can use it as whip, and you can attach it to yourself as a tail. That will give you a tail attack. There are also the Witch Hexes Nails and Prehensile Hair. But if you already have Claws, and you already have White Hair, I don't know if you'd be allowed to use Nails and Prehensile Hair. Also, if you already were a White Haired Witch, you don't get Hexes, so you'd have to dip as a Hexcrafter Magus, which I'm not especially sanguine about.

[LordKailas]

I came up with the following build. So far as I can tell nothing is a polymorph effect and with the exception of the tentacle cloak you get everything 24/7. The main problem I ran into was that Pincers, Claws, and Slam attacks are often incompatible with each other they typically occupy the hand/arm slot. As a result getting one often supersedes any others you already have. Talons have a similar issue as they tend to occupy either a foot or hand slot which bring them into conflict with claws and/or hooves respectively. As a result I wasn't able to get any pincers or talons on the build. But I did get

1 bite
1 claw
1 hair
1 gore
1 hoof
2 tentacle (limited uses per day)
2 wings
1 tail slap
1 slam
1 sting
2 vine attacks (deal no damage)

White Haired Kobold

Spoiler:

Race: Kobold
Racial Traits: Dragonmaw
Class: Witch(1)
Archetypes: White Hair(witch)
Feats: Tail Terror(3rd)
Gear: Helm of the Mammoth Lord, Dread Wing Armor enchant, Reaching Vines, Brazen Hooves, Stinging Tail, Amulet of the blooded(Abyssal), Necrograft(Arm)x1, tentacle cloak
Note: I'm assuming that because hair is a defining characteristic of the white haired witch, the kobold would spontaneously sprout hair.

In the end you get 12 natural weapons all day and can occasionally have 14.

[Firebug]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I seem to recall the existence of a magic item called a Fleshwarped Whip or a Fleshwarped Tail. You can use it as whip, and you can attach it to yourself as a tail. That will give you a tail attack.

Yep. 2 items actually, a weapon and a fleshcraft, and I mentioned that in my first post in this thread.

Firebug wrote:

You can even get a stinger/tail attack from Stinging Tail or the weapon version.