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This is a place to call out noteworthy backgrounds and archetype abilities in the Lost Omens World Guide.
My initial notes:
Archetypes in this book are interesting for one common thing: the dedications all raise an existing "real" skill plus a related lore to expert if you already have it, which makes them and an 8th level Rogue multiclass feat the only ways I know of to beat the restricted progression on better than trained skills for non-rogues. Some of the lores that can be boosted to expert via this method are actually potentially useful, especially in certain campaigns, and there is generally a background from the same region as the archetype that grants that lore if you're looking for some synergy.
Runescarred Archetype is kind of a poor man's spellcaster MC dedication. The dedication can raise Arcana and Thassilon Lore to expert, but you only get one cantrip, and it's an innate spell so it's locked to Charisma despite being arcane, which is unhelpful for anyone who isn't a sorcerer or bard. Not great unless you really want that skill progression. Spell Runes and Greater Spell Runes are equivalent to the Sorcerer/Bard basic/expert spellcasting, but as innate spells so they're charisma locked but grow (and only grow) in proficiency with your main class spell proficiency even if it's not arcane, I guess. No spell breadth option. So you're probably here for Living Rune, allowing you to scribe an unrestricted armor rune on yourself, or Warding Rune, providing a +2 cirumstance bonus to saves against a single school of magic. I think that's kinda bad unless you're really trying to maximize armor runes or getting blasted by lots of evocation throughout your career. Alternatively, Bards and non-arcane Sorcerers can get arcane spells this way that perfectly line up with their casting stat and proficiency, but just one per spell level up to 6th.
Student of Perfection is kind of odd in that it seems to fit best with a Monk (the dedication gets you Ki Strike and also boosts Athletics and Warfare Lore), but I could see other classes taking the dedication just for the skill boost and a free focus point (never intending to actually use unarmed strikes) and then Perfect Ki Adept for the focus power they actually want to use. Unblinking Flame Revelation seems surprisingly bad and niche, but Unbreaking Wave Advance is some cool crowd control and a one action for 15 temp HP Untwisting Iron Buffer seems competitive with those always on extra HP feats for the fighter and barbarian MC.
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Backgrounds that I like (mostly because of skill feats combined with acceptable other stuff) on a quick glance include Sarkorian Reclaimer for a druid or cleric (medicine, abyssal lore, battle medicine feat), Wonder Taster for an Alchemist if it gives you a free skill feat for the redundancy like trained skills work (Crafting, Alchemical Lore, Alchemical Crafting), Belkzen Slayer (intimidate, orc lore, intimidating glare), Lastwall Survivor (same as Sarkorian Reclaimer except undead lore), Purveyor of the Bizarre (arcana, merchantile lore, quick identification), Secular Medic (dexterity!, medicine, anatomy lore, battle medicine), Scholar of the Ancients (arcana, azlanti lore, quick identification), Alkenstar Tinker for the Alchemist (same as Wonder Taster but engineering lore), Mana Wastes Refugee (arcana, wilderness lore, trick magic item), Nexian Mystic (arcana, lore of a plane you choose, arcane sense), Oenopion Ooze-Tender (crafting, ooze lore, dubious knowledge), Magaambya Academic (arcana/nature, academia lore, recognize spell), Thassilonian Traveler (arcana, thassilon lore, dubious knowledge), Ulfen Raider (intimidation, sailing lore, intimidating glare), Winter's Child (arcana, weather lore, arcane sense), and Rivethun Adherent (occultism, spirit lore, recognize spell).
Magic Warrior archetype is a very poor dedication providing only a skill boost to Arcana or Nature and a +1 circumstance bonus to divination saves, and that last benefit goes poof and requires retraining if someone ever sees your real face or learns who you are, so it's hard to see this traveling well in many Lost Omens cultures without some gimmick to disguise or explain away the mask. You're either here because you really want a 1/day auto heightened nondetection spell on yourself or some very limited polymorph options to get the speed/senses of a fixed animal or animal form for that one animal. I don't see the appeal here.
Red Mantis Assassin archetype is interesting for what it doesn't do - make you better at killing things. The dedication boosts your Stealth and elevates your sawtooth saber proficiency to match your highest class granted proficiency, but doesn't otherwise enhance or care about the weapon. Instead you have three different options: a crimson shroud that provides 1/2 level fast healing in combat, the ability shapechange into a mantis (which is going to collapse in utility at high levels since Insect Form only heightens to 5th level), and some very minor and limited spellcasting (one feat for 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell, a second feat gets you a 2nd-4th level spell, from a very limited list that helps with infiltration and some assassination boosting). If your core class has good weapon proficiency then maybe grab training in sawtooth sabers because you want some fast healing and the first spell casting feat - two feats and one True Strike cast isn't bad at all for a class feat.
I think Student of Perfection is a great choice for Animal Instinct Barbarians, weirdly enough. Barbarians have accuracy issues by design, so using a reaction to make your big chunky attack hit can be quite valuable.
I'm a bit annoyed that Runescarred doesn't do anything to increase your Arcane proficiency past Trained - it's still a pretty good archetype but with your proficiency stuck in the doldrums it's only really good for utility spells.
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Student of Perfection might work for a mutagenic alchemist: bestial + ki strike seems like a boost to a normally non-focus using class. They wouldn't hate Iron Buffer either.
Runescarred: I thing the big thing with this one is that it gives out spells without requiring any stats so a fighter with all 10 in mental stats could still use spells. Secondly, it's an opportunity to get cha based arcane spells so an arcane sorcerer can use it to get more spell using cha and arcane proficiency.
Yeah, there's plenty of great spells you can take that don't interact with spell proficiency at all; it's just kind of a disappointment because I was looking at the Runescarred from the perspective of a Magical Trickster Rogue.
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The dedication can raise Arcana and Thassilon Lore to expert, but you only get one cantrip, and it's an innate spell so it's locked to Charisma despite being arcane, which is unhelpful for anyone who isn't a sorcerer or bard.
We get so many ability boosts that there's no reason to dump Cha anymore. Both Deception and Intimidate can be used in combat, and Diplomacy can even be used for Income via Bargain Hunter. If one is going for Rollplay over Roleplay, then yeah, Runescarred uses a horrible stat.
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Honestly, I thought most of the archetypes were unimpressive, especially when compared to the core class archetypes. I think Student of Perfection is the only one I could foresee myself using.
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The dedication can raise Arcana and Thassilon Lore to expert, but you only get one cantrip, and it's an innate spell so it's locked to Charisma despite being arcane, which is unhelpful for anyone who isn't a sorcerer or bard.We get so many ability boosts that there's no reason to dump Cha anymore. Both Deception and Intimidate can be used in combat, and Diplomacy can even be used for Income via Bargain Hunter. If one is going for Rollplay over Roleplay, then yeah, Runescarred uses a horrible stat.
Offensive spellcasting is a poor choice for anything but your primary stat. With no proficiency advance this can be good for arcane sorcerers, poor for secondary charisma wizards, and really bad for everyone else if you’re doing spell rolls or saves
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Honestly the lack of proficiency increase in Runescarred is WAY more of a detriment than that it uses Charisma.
But it doesn't make it useless, it just makes its usefulness different. You don't take offensive/debuff spells with it unless you are an arcane sorcerer. Take buffs and other spells where your DC/attack rolls don't matter.
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I found the Armiger interesting, in that I believe it is the first archetype so far that is designed to interact with and benefit from other archetypes.
Which makes it kind of hard to judge until we get the full Hellknights and Signifier follow up, but I like the idea, and it seems like it has potential.
Magic Warrior was not what I expected. The others mostly had interesting approaches, if not all that convincingly implemented. It's going to be interesting seeing how archetypes evolve from now on.
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Honestly the lack of proficiency increase in Runescarred is WAY more of a detriment than that it uses Charisma.
Only if you're not already a spellcaster. We've all kind of been randomly flubbing the innate spellcasting rules, but here are the key points:
1. It always uses Charisma as the casting stat (so fine if you're a Bard or Sorcerer), and
2. You're only trained UNLESS you have any other spell proficiency (doesn't have to match tradition) in which case you use that.
So Bards/Sorcerers use innate spells with their full spell roll/DC, other casters get full proficiency but have to use Charisma as their stat which will knock them down at least a point or two, possibly as many as four.
Innate spell rules are on pg 302 of the CRB.
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If one is going for Rollplay over Roleplay, then yeah, Runescarred uses a horrible stat.
This idea needs to die in a fire. Mechanical competency and strong character motivation are not mutually exclusive.
That aside...
I thought the archetypes were interesting. The Runescarred/its art struck me as interesting and I kind of want to build a Varisian Rogue (Scoundrel) / Runescarred.
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Honestly the lack of proficiency increase in Runescarred is WAY more of a detriment than that it uses Charisma.
Only if you're not already a spellcaster. We've all kind of been randomly flubbing the innate spellcasting rules, but here are the key points:
1. It always uses Charisma as the casting stat (so fine if you're a Bard or Sorcerer), and
2. You're only trained UNLESS you have any other spell proficiency (doesn't have to match tradition) in which case you use that.So Bards/Sorcerers use innate spells with their full spell roll/DC, other casters get full proficiency but have to use Charisma as their stat which will knock them down at least a point or two, possibly as many as four.
Innate spell rules are on pg 302 of the CRB.
You are correct. So to be more accurate on my original post, you just don't take offensive/save spells with it unless you have training in spellcasting from your cast.
It's still a great way to get buffs for a noncaster. Also the ability to put a property rune on yourself.
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Runescarred look great to me for a martial character that wants some arcane defensive/buff spells and doesn't want to carry around a spellbook or bump their cha.
I have a fighter in my game that is already very excited about it. The armor rune and bonus to saves vs magic school are also very nice defensively.
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One potentially amazing feature of the Runescarred archetype: I believe the Living Rune feat allows you to wear an Armor Potency rune while not wearing armor. That allows you to get a +3 item bonus to AC *without* accepting any cap on your dex bonus to AC.
That would allow a wall shield using Monk to get an AC of up to 10 +20(level) +8(legendary) +7(dex) +4(circumstance) +3(item) = 52 AC, plus whatever status bump to AC you can scavenge up.
Of course, you don’t have a way to also get a Resilient rune (for the item bonus to saves) without accepting the dex cap. But still, an interesting option to consider.
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One potentially amazing feature of the Runescarred archetype: I believe the Living Rune feat allows you to wear an Armor Potency rune while not wearing armor. That allows you to get a +3 item bonus to AC *without* accepting any cap on your dex bonus to AC.
Living Rune only allows a Property Rune, the AC and save runes for armor are Fundamental Runes, so it doesn't work.
Your CRB options are antimagic, energy-resistant, ethereal, and slick. Two of those are uncommon, so really it's energy-resistant or slick.
Edit: I actually think slick effects the armor, not the wearer, so you can take that one off, too. It's bad, folks.
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One potentially amazing feature of the Runescarred archetype: I believe the Living Rune feat allows you to wear an Armor Potency rune while not wearing armor. That allows you to get a +3 item bonus to AC *without* accepting any cap on your dex bonus to AC.
Living Rune only allows a Property Rune, the AC and save runes for armor are Fundamental Runes, so it doesn't work.
Your CRB options are antimagic, energy-resistant, ethereal, and slick. Two of those are uncommon, so really it's energy-resistant or slick.
Edit: I actually think slick effects the armor, not the wearer, so you can take that one off, too. It's bad, folks.
Are you under the false impression that you'll never get uncommon things? Energy-resistant, antimagic, and ethereal would all be very useful, fail to see how it's "bad"
Also not sure why slick wouldn't apply, it doesn't require a specific type of armor and just makes a person slippery, similar to coating armor would make it slippery.
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Your CRB options are antimagic, energy-resistant, ethereal, and slick. Two of those are uncommon, so really it's energy-resistant or slick.Edit: I actually think slick effects the armor, not the wearer, so you can take that one off, too. It's bad, folks.
Are you under the false impression that you'll never get uncommon things? Energy-resistant, antimagic, and ethereal would all be very useful, fail to see how it's "bad"
Also not sure why slick wouldn't apply, it doesn't require a specific type of armor and just makes a person slippery, similar to coating armor would make it slippery.
You can't depend on getting uncommon things. Lacking knowledge otherwise, it's a bad idea to count on them in assessing this option.
Energy-resistant is the one common thing you definitely can get. It's a pretty bad armor property because it's available cheaper (and more powerfully) from Rings of Resistance at lower level.
This property makes armor slippery, as though it were coated with a thin film of oil.
Slick definitely doesn't work with this anymore than Glamered does, as it effects the armor, not the wearer.
If you find an antimagic or ethereal armor rune, sure, think about getting this feat chain or retraining into it. But otherwise I don't see it making any sense until they publish some decent unrestricted armor property runes.
One potentially amazing feature of the Runescarred archetype: I believe the Living Rune feat allows you to wear an Armor Potency rune while not wearing armor. That allows you to get a +3 item bonus to AC *without* accepting any cap on your dex bonus to AC.
Living Rune only allows a Property Rune, the AC and save runes for armor are Fundamental Runes, so it doesn't work.
Your CRB options are antimagic, energy-resistant, ethereal, and slick. Two of those are uncommon, so really it's energy-resistant or slick.
Edit: I actually think slick effects the armor, not the wearer, so you can take that one off, too. It's bad, folks.
Ah, gotcha. Good catch.
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Man, the price on that Aldori sword is crazy, innit? I don't feel the appeal of "longsword, but finesse" is actually that strong even at a normal price.
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I wonder if the dueling sword is a typo and was supposed to be 2gp?
I also think you are being a little harsh on uncommon items. Rare is another thing, but the way the CRB talks about uncommon heavily pushes the idea that any player who wants an uncommon option should be able to get it with some work.
On a positive note, I love that Red Mantis have gone back to bring spellcasters.
I do hope we eventually get more feats for some of these archetypes, though.
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I also think you are being a little harsh on uncommon items. Rare is another thing, but the way the CRB talks about uncommon heavily pushes the idea that any player who wants an uncommon option should be able to get it with some work.
I'm with Xenocrat on this: don't make something uncommon integral to a character unless you KNOW ahead of time you'll be able to get it. Hoping/expecting to get it is a bad idea IMO unless you KNOW the Dm and can reasonably expect to get it.
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I think that relying on Uncommon stuff probably is wrong, but equally, so is saying something is just bad if it's only bad if you can't get Uncommon stuff (which is basically what Xenocrat did).
Or to put it another way, I don't think either the assumption that you will get Uncommon stuff or the assumption you won't is correct. If something winds up very different under the two circumstances, you should always note how it is in terms of both options unless you're talking about a specific game where you know which is true.
Just disagreeing with the whole "Cha only useful for bard or sorcerer."
Without a specific build that requires it, it's pretty true. If you wish to Demoralize, for instance, you get some Cha, but a normal non-cha caster has plenty of other stats wanting attention: Saves, bulk, perception, init, AC, hp... And with 10 the general staring level it's not even dumping to leave it alone as you're just 'average' with charisma stuff: you can still role play JUST fine with a cha 10 the only difference between it and a higher cha is the rolls...
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I think that relying on Uncommon stuff probably is wrong, but equally, so is saying something is just bad if it's only bad if you can't get Uncommon stuff (which is basically what Xenocrat did).
Or to put it another way, I don't think either the assumption that you will get Uncommon stuff or the assumption you won't is correct. If something winds up very different under the two circumstances, you should always note how it is in terms of both options unless you're talking about a specific game where you know which is true.
I agree with this, on further thought.
Basically, instead of "this is bad because the good options are uncommon", I think it's more useful to say "this is good if you can get the uncommon options, but be aware that it's not as good if you can't."
If you look at the other weapon prices in the core book it really does look like a typo...
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Incidentally none of the early LO threads have mentioned Lion Blade as far as I can tell. Does it not offer much exciting...?
If you look at the other weapon prices in the core book it really does look like a typo...
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Incidentally none of the early LO threads have mentioned Lion Blade as far as I can tell. Does it not offer much exciting...?
I'll write up something later. It looks good, but it's very much for an urban/spy campaign and fighting among mobs of people in crowded streets. Extremely specialized for good and ill.
Incidentally none of the early LO threads have mentioned Lion Blade as far as I can tell. Does it not offer much exciting...?
It's a spy archetype: disguises, faster movement, sneak/hide/flank options in a crowd, confuse divination/mental magic and give yourself concealment.
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Thanks
So very much like the original. Most of that can be generally useful but the crowd stuff has always been quite niche
I have never known many games that involve lots of crowds
Hells Rebels starts with one and you can be really mean an have one in later but then there is no more. Not sure if they appear any more frequently in other written content...
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This property makes armor slippery, as though it were coated with a thin film of oil.Slick definitely doesn't work with this anymore than Glamered does, as it effects the armor, not the wearer.
Why doesn't it work? Isn't the whole idea that you're putting the rune on your own skin, so any properties that would normally affect the armor affect you directly? Or is there text on Runescarred which explains why this wouldn't work (I don't have the book currently).
You'd be a gross oily mess all the time, though, I guess that's a downside.
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This property makes armor slippery, as though it were coated with a thin film of oil.Slick definitely doesn't work with this anymore than Glamered does, as it effects the armor, not the wearer.Why doesn't it work? Isn't the whole idea that you're putting the rune on your own skin, so any properties that would normally affect the armor affect you directly? Or is there text on Runescarred which explains why this wouldn't work (I don't have the book currently).
You'd be a gross oily mess all the time, though, I guess that's a downside.
"you can’t etch a property rune on your body if it has requirements on the type or category of armor or if the property would affect the armor instead of its wearer."
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Thanks
So very much like the original. Most of that can be generally useful but the crowd stuff has always been quite niche
I have never known many games that involve lots of crowds
Hells Rebels starts with one and you can be really mean an have one in later but then there is no more. Not sure if they appear any more frequently in other written content...
This edition, the crowd stuff is entirely skippable if you don't think it will be useful, since they aren't prerequisites for anything else.
"you can’t etch a property rune on your body if it has requirements on the type or category of armor or if the property would affect the armor instead of its wearer."
Thanks, yeah I guess that would exclude Slick.
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I'm waiting on the Urban Barbarian to take another look at the Aldori Dueling Sword; finesse weapons that are not agile are exactly what you want for that character archetype. As it stands there aren't really any builds that want the Dueling Sword, most that would be interested in it would be just as happy if not more so trading a damage dice down to get Agile.
...Wait, that's the most obvious problem with it, isn't it? The dueling sword shouldn't be an exotic weapon at all. It compares evenly with the shortsword, getting the next step up in damage dice and losing agile.
I think the Aldori sword not being agile works fine for a rogue who wants to use that 3rd action to feint or demoralize anyway.
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"you can’t etch a property rune on your body if it has requirements on the type or category of armor or if the property would affect the armor instead of its wearer."This property makes armor slippery, as though it were coated with a thin film of oil.Slick definitely doesn't work with this anymore than Glamered does, as it effects the armor, not the wearer.Why doesn't it work? Isn't the whole idea that you're putting the rune on your own skin, so any properties that would normally affect the armor affect you directly? Or is there text on Runescarred which explains why this wouldn't work (I don't have the book currently).
You'd be a gross oily mess all the time, though, I guess that's a downside.
I'd argue that the property affects you, not the armour, and that the flavour to describe its effects shouldn't be taken as rules text. The actual effect itself only affects the wearer, unlike something like glamered.
Only one that I liked was the Armiger, which actually had cool + thematic abilities that match up with their PF1 stuff. The rest are mostly just niche abilities where you invest a lot to play a jank build that is weaker than just staying in your base class.
What classes mesh best with the Living Monolith?
What classes mesh best with the Living Monolith?
Once I hit the rare 4th level feat I stopped looking at the archetype: once they explain how that works, I'll look at it again.