You could take two feats, wait until 9th level, and then use Multitalented to start a second dedication.I'm personally more interested in archetypes like the ones in this book than I am multiclassing.
Then Multitalented isn't the solution. :(
But solutions that put pressure on people to be human are something I'm concerned about in the long run, since Natural Ambition and Multitalented are pretty much the most powerful ancestry feats out there.
I agree with you on that. I'm not a fan of playing humans. At least in this edition it looks like a lot of previously separate ancestries like aasimar and will qualify as human.
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This is what I feel happens to a lot of the archetypes right now. Like, they have some cool options in there, but it requires all of this investment that you end up worse than if you just stayed in your base class forever in the end. I think it's mostly due to the fact that a lot of dedications don't add much of anything to combat, so you end up spending 2 almighty class feats to get some "lateral" ability that can rarely make up for the investment.
I actually disagree with this. My complaint above is specifically about Fighter/Aldori Duelist. A Champion/Aldori Duelist, or Rogue, or Barbarian, or even Ranger, gets things out of Aldori Duelist that they couldn't get out of anything else, and potentially very good ones. They're effectively stealing Fighter Feats, which are some of the better Feats for straight combat in the game. That's potentially great.
This is what I feel happens to a lot of the archetypes right now. Like, they have some cool options in there, but it requires all of this investment that you end up worse than if you just stayed in your base class forever in the end. I think it's mostly due to the fact that a lot of dedications don't add much of anything to combat, so you end up spending 2 almighty class feats to get some "lateral" ability that can rarely make up for the investment.I actually disagree with this. My complaint above is specifically about Fighter/Aldori Duelist. A Champion/Aldori Duelist, or Rogue, or Barbarian, or even Ranger, gets things out of Aldori Duelist that they couldn't get out of anything else, and potentially very good ones. They're effectively stealing Fighter Feats, which are some of the better Feats for straight combat in the game. That's potentially great.
It does offer really good options for a rogue, but they need to take Weapon Proficiency twice just to qualify for the dedication (or Weapon Proficiency and Unconventional Weaponry). That's a pretty serious investment for early levels.
It's only rogues (and monks, but that's weird) among the martials who need to take weapon proficiency twice, right? Since the weapon proficiency general feat upgrades martial to a specific advanced weapon.
Still "weapon proficiency" two times at level 1 is available to humans with the versatile heritage, and you can still spend your 5th level ancestry feat on natural ambition.
I don't think Unconventional Weaponry by RAW works for the Dueling Sword since I think the "common in another culture" means specifically the rarity "common" and applies to things like "Katanas in Tien Xia". RAI it might though.
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It does offer really good options for a rogue, but they need to take Weapon Proficiency twice just to qualify for the dedication (or Weapon Proficiency and Unconventional Weaponry). That's a pretty serious investment for early levels.
A Human Rogue can have it at 1st level. It's an investment, but not an unworkable one.
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Being a human so you can eat all the feat taxes to buy into the thing you really want in a timely fashion has some serious shades of PF1 and not in a good way.
One thing I think merits specific consideration is whether the intent of the retraining rules is to prevent a non-human ranger, champion, or barbarian who will be taking the weapon proficiency general feat at 3rd level from retraining their 2nd level feat to the Aldori dedication.
Hopefully the GMG has more on retraining.
One thing I think merits specific consideration is whether the intent of the retraining rules is to prevent a non-human ranger, champion, or barbarian who will be taking the weapon proficiency general feat at 3rd level from retraining their 2nd level feat to the Aldori dedication.
Hopefully the GMG has more on retraining.
It's not that complex from what I saw? Could you have taken Aldori dedication before level 3? If yes, then take it. If not, then nope. Am I missing something here or?
How do you know you could take it at the time?
If the feat requires proficiency in a weapon and you took weapon proficiency as your level 3 feat, then clearly you don't qualify for it at level 2.
If it requires 14 strength and you didn't put a stat bump into strength until level 5, you didn't qualify for it at level 2.
That seems relatively straight forward tbh.
It's not that complex from what I saw? Could you have taken Aldori dedication before level 3? If yes, then take it. If not, then nope. Am I missing something here or?One thing I think merits specific consideration is whether the intent of the retraining rules is to prevent a non-human ranger, champion, or barbarian who will be taking the weapon proficiency general feat at 3rd level from retraining their 2nd level feat to the Aldori dedication.
Hopefully the GMG has more on retraining.
This seems unnecessarily punitive to all non-human ancestries, who will be unable to access any archetype focused around an advanced weapon unless they are fighters or it's an ancestral weapon until level 4. It just feels bad to take a level 2 feat in a level 4 slot.
After all, humans can have proficiency in any of every ancestry's advanced weapons (via unconventional weaponry) but the earliest a dwarf/elf/gnome/etc. non-fighter can get proficiency in dueling swords or sawtooth sabres is 3rd level.
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Being a human so you can eat all the feat taxes to buy into the thing you really want in a timely fashion has some serious shades of PF1 and not in a good way.
Rogues (or non-Warpriest spellcasters) going specifically for Advanced Weapons that are not Ancestry-specific are pretty much the only people who can't get whatever they want by 3rd or 4th level.
At least now we have a very specific level at which the game will start letting you do weird stuff. None of this wishy washy we start at whatever level the GM says, all PF2 games should start at FOUR exactly.
Rogues (or non-Warpriest spellcasters) going specifically for Advanced Weapons that are not Ancestry-specific are pretty much the only people who can't get whatever they want by 3rd or 4th level.
You say 'only' but this is a level 2 feat that literally only one of the game's twelve classes can take at level 2 unless you're a specific heritage of a specific ancestry. That's not 'only', that's ninety percent. It drops from 11 to seven and a half if you go up to level 4, but that's still nearly two thirds, which still isn't very only.
You're realistically looking at a level 8 entry for a majority of the game's classes, including martials like the monk and rogue. Level 12 if you're a wizard.
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That's only for Advanced Weapons though. And only those that are atypical for your Ancestry (you can manage those typical of your Ancestry by level 3 for anyone but Wizards).
That combination is a very niche thing. IMO, basically no spellcasters should bother with them, and frankly few martial characters should either.
I know there's been some chatter about it in this thread; the dueling sword is supposed to be sp and not gp. It was mentioned on the Pathfinder Fridays twitch stream.
(Sorry if it's been mentioned, but ctrl+f didn't turn anything up)
The real overpriced items are the swim fins and jelly fish lanterns. Not to mention the Black Pearl Aeon Stone that costs 2000 units of unspecified currency.
The latter.Oh no.
Though I suppose one could start with the archetype, then at 9 and up dip into a multiclass at least.
It goes back to the days of AD&D when half-elves were better than anyone else at multiclassing.
Its fairly easy and part of why the character sheet has all your option slots with a level notation.How do you know you could take it at the time? You would either need really good memory or keep a change log.
Using "ask he GM" is not a valid answer as that can be done even if there were no rules to retrain.
Why I personally use that phone app since it tracks everything level by level, Pathbuilder 2 I believe was the name. But even without it, you should be able to backtrack what you had with any character sheet.
Wish I could remember who said it, but someone on these forums once made a comment about flavor vs. mechanical when it comes to figuring out if you can take feats at earlier levels, and I thought it was a really nice rule of thumb since I tend to make my own character sheet templates and don't track all of my feats at different levels. Mechanically a rogue needs to get a general feat at 3 to qualify for an advanced weapon, so they couldn't retrain their 2nd-level feat to become a duelist. They could have theoretically met a sphynx at 2nd level, though, so it would be possible for them to have learned the dedication to become a living monolith.
Just a bit curious, how do you not track feats by level? Even when writing things down in text pad, I'd go 2nd: Class Feat(Sudden Charge) 3rd: Ancestry Feat(etc), etc.
I'd get losing track of skill increases during leveling if you make a very base text document but feats are a strange thing to lose track of.
You could take two feats, wait until 9th level, and then use Multitalented to start a second dedication.I'm personally more interested in archetypes like the ones in this book than I am multiclassing.Then Multitalented isn't the solution. :(
But solutions that put pressure on people to be human are something I'm concerned about in the long run, since Natural Ambition and Multitalented are pretty much the most powerful ancestry feats out there.I agree with you on that. I'm not a fan of playing humans. At least in this edition it looks like a lot of previously separate ancestries like aasimar and will qualify as human.
If you are not wanting to invest heavily in two or more mental stats, then a Half-Elf taking Multitalented at 9th level might be the way to start wizard spell advancement, as a Half-Elf with that feat does not have to meet the ability score prerequisites of the multiclass dedication feat he takes at that time. Note that in PF2, we may be looking at a situation where many of the races that were considered half-human or even non-human in PF1 will be human heritages in PF2. And if you are interested in reproducing the AD&D 1st edition ranger, that class was pretty much limited to humans and half-elves anyway.
But whether that second dedication feat gives you any other problems depends on what other archetypes you are interested in.
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Living Rune only allows a Property Rune, the AC and save runes for armor are Fundamental Runes, so it doesn't work.
I believe that you are reading that wrong. The feat says that you get an armour Rune which is a fundamental rune and that you can have 1 property rune without restriction to armour. You can only hold a property rune if you have a fundamental rune. Yes they worded it poorly.
I have a universal wizard and I took this archetype because I wanted to free up some of my spell slots. It allows me to move Magic Armour and False Life into my innate spell casting; using charisma doesn't matter when casting those spells. It frees up my spell slots for spells that I actual use during play as opposed to spells that I only use during my daily preparations.
One benefit of putting energy-resistant rune as your property rune is that if all your equipment is taken you still have your resistance. It also doesn't count toward your invest magic limit totals. Runes don't have the invest trait.
Living runes also allow us squishy wizards to gain a little bit of AC So we are not so Squishy. I have noticed that as a Wizard that once you do a lot of damage to someone they tend to target you. Those fighter types can't seem to hold the aggro. Smile Just my two cents.
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Living Rune only allows a Property Rune, the AC and save runes for armor are Fundamental Runes, so it doesn't work.
I believe that you are reading that wrong. The feat says that you get an armour Rune which is a fundamental rune and that you can have 1 property rune without restriction to armour. You can only hold a property rune if you have a fundamental rune. Yes they worded it poorly.
I have a universal wizard and I took this archetype because I wanted to free up some of my spell slots. It allows me to move Magic Armour and False Life into my innate spell casting; using charisma doesn't matter when casting those spells. It frees up my spell slots for spells that I actual use during play as opposed to spells that I only use during my daily preparations.
One benefit of putting energy-resistant rune as your property rune is that if all your equipment is taken you still have your resistance. It also doesn't count toward your invest magic limit totals. Runes don't have the invest trait.
Living runes also allow us squishy wizards to gain a little bit of AC So we are not so Squishy. I have noticed that as a Wizard that once you do a lot of damage to someone they tend to target you. Those fighter types can't seem to hold the aggro. Smile Just my two cents.
I'm not seeing any indication that 'Armor Rune' is specifically referring to a Fundamental Armor Rune.
Personally, I'm reading the first line as 'fluff' describing what the feat generally does and the subsequent text as the actual specifics:
You’ve bridged a connection between the runes on your body and the magic of runestones, allowing you to place an armor rune on your living flesh.
In general terms, you can add an armor rune to your body (Armor Rune being a general term for a rune that is intended to be applied to Armor).
Your body can hold a single property rune; you can’t etch a property rune on your body if it has requirements on the type or category of armor or if the property would affect the armor instead of its wearer.
Specifically, that rune has to be a Property Rune and can't have a specific armor restriction.
If you wear armor, you gain the property rune’s effects in addition to any effects of that armor.
Your interpretation would break the 'Armor cap' built into the game as you do not seem to have a dex bonus cap that even Bracers have...