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These are typically nice to have around, but I'm curious. Isn't it a bit too early to tell what's a really good feat and what's not?
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Interesting!
One thought: I'd be inclined to rate Natural Ambition as gold (the top rating). Given the power level of class feats, even first level class feats, it's an amazing choice.
Moreover, Natural Ambition often saves you from having to spend a higher level class feat on a prerequisite allowing you to effectively get a higher level class feat in exchange for an ancestry feat. (E.g., if you're building a Monk, you almost certainly want a style feat at first level, but will also want to take one of the Ki powers since they're prerequisites for the much cooler Ki powers that follow. But that requires giving up some cool higher level class feat in order to pick one of the first level Ki powers. With Natural Ambition you'll get to choose that cool higher level class feat instead.)
It's hard for any other ancestry feat to compete with that!
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I'm prone to calling Natural Ambition a top tier ancestry feat, as well.
I think Sky Blue is a fair rating. I had the opposite opinion on 1st and 2nd level Barbarian Feats.
I think some classes REAALLLY want those class feats (Alchemist) and others are pretty meh. I think Rogue is pretty meh, Sorc, Wizard, and Barbarian are the ones I remember thinking I should Multi class with these classes because their early feats felt underwhelming.
Also, you only get benefit from Sudden Charge if you needed that extra Stride increment.
I'll agree on the "Natural Ambition is good and will get better over time" point, but on top of that I think you've missed a few neat options.
Vivacious Conduit pretty dramatically increases the rate at which a gnome recovers hit points.
Hefty Hauler is a skill feat many low STR characters are in the market for. Athletics is a skill worth training in for almost anyone (if only because Climb and Swim checks are a thing), and 7 bulk is a lot more than 5.
What order are the ancestry feats supposed to be in? I am getting a little confused as to if it is random, by rank, by ancestry ? Or is there no order? Just so I can get my head around how to read this
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Vivacious Conduit pretty dramatically increases the rate at which a gnome recovers hit points.
I concur that this is a situationally excellent feat, particularly for gnome martials. At 20th level you can easily have 20 Con, at which point you recover 50 HP per 10 minute rest on top of whatever medicine checks would be attempted on you. This feat is one of the main reasons I'm playing a gnome barbarian currently.
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I'm prone to calling Natural Ambition a top tier ancestry feat, as well.I think Sky Blue is a fair rating. I had the opposite opinion on 1st and 2nd level Barbarian Feats.
I think some classes REAALLLY want those class feats (Alchemist) and others are pretty meh. I think Rogue is pretty meh, Sorc, Wizard, and Barbarian are the ones I remember thinking I should Multi class with these classes because their early feats felt underwhelming.
Also, you only get benefit from Sudden Charge if you needed that extra Stride increment.
I think Natural Ambition should also be in the top tier. It is absolutely not just meh for rogues, as trap finder and nimble dodge are great for any character. And twin feint is great for dual wielding rogues. All of the first level feats for sorcerer look good, especially widen spell and dangerous sorcery with fireball, and acute vision, raging intimidation, and sudden charge all look like great choices for a barbarian.
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I am obliged to disagree as to the value of Assurance - Athletics to trip foes. This combination only gets you a 10 + proficiency bonus... no other modifiers apply.
So at 3rd level, with Expert proficiency... 10 +4 (Ex) +3 (lvl) = 17. Randomly checking all CR 3 creatures listed under 'D' I find that six out of six creatures have a Ref of +8 or higher, meaning their static checks are 18. So... the Assurance/Athletics Trip mechanism doesn't work.
Randomly also checking under 'M', there is only one CR 3 creature, and As/Ath/Trip fails against him too. So that going into 'M' was not a total waste, I checked the two CR 4 creatures there, and one would be tripped, the other would be missed.
One out of nine is a pretty bad deal. If you want to use Assurance / Athletics to try making climb rolls, okay. But don't waste your time on Trip.
at 3rd level, with Expert proficiency... 10 +4 (Ex) +3 (lvl) = 17. Randomly checking all CR 3 creatures...
So, it does not trip minor bosses. Didn't we have this discussion a thousand times before?
Get out of the white room and play the actual game ;)
Assurance (athletics) is primarily for combat maneuvering lower level enemies, not your level and higher.
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One out of nine is a pretty bad deal. If you want to use Assurance / Athletics to try making climb rolls, okay. But don't waste your time on Trip.
Checking all the CR6 creatures that can be tripped shows that 11 of 36 have a Reflex save of +7 or lower. So, roughly 30% of trippable creatures at CR3 can be tripped by a level 3 Expert in Athletics using Assurance.
Much better than the 1 in 9 your sample suggested.
Assurance (athletics) is primarily for combat maneuvering lower level enemies, not your level and higher.
Not really, at higher levels you can autotrip enemies higher than you. The detail he missed isn’t that, but the fact that the enemies you normally face aren’t always equal to your level.
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No, the enemies you face aren't always going to be your level... sometimes they will be higher! That certainly happened a lot in 'Fall of Plaguestone'. The point of the post was to warn people that this is not an 'auto win' button, as the guide seemed to suggest. The guide did not advise as to opponent level.
Note 1: the random sampling method was described, so if someone sampled different sections of the Bestiary (or all of it), they could certainly get different results. Frex, a recent glance at divers Undead shows that most have low Ref, so they are mostly trippable (if they are not incorporeal).
Note 2: the Trip, Shove and Grapple actions are all 'Attack' actions. They count for the multiple action penalties same as Strikes. But... assurance ignores all penalties: so an Assurance-Athletics attempt has the same value whether it comes before or after two strikes.
Note 3: I have just randomly looked under 'G', for all creatures from CR7 to CR11... and if your PC is level 10 & pushed Athletics to Master your Assurance - Athletics fixed total is 10 +10 (level) +6 (master) = 26. The results are that you auto-trip 8 of the 24 creatures. Ediwir, could you please describe how you came to the conclusion that As/Ath is auto-hit at higher levels? (I picked level 10 because PFS tops out at 11, did you sample at level 15?)
Claims I don't have permission? I read it closer to when it was first uploaded, but wanted to go back and read it again, only I can't. Did OP make it private?Is for me as well.
Same here
I think Rogue is pretty meh
I fail to see how Rogue is meh, if you want a TWF build it’s immediately good because Nimble Dodge is always good. Even sans that, Trap Sense allows you to not run Perception as an exploration tactic which is not bad. But in the case of TWF, it’s exceptional.
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Rogues are the best at skills, and skills are actually good in this edition.
Not to mention that a sneak attacking rogue keeps up with other martials in terms of damage. They're not winning it, but they're doing enough to contribute that its relevant. They also get some nice debuff with the debilitating strikes.
I'm prone to calling Natural Ambition a top tier ancestry feat, as well.I think Sky Blue is a fair rating. I had the opposite opinion on 1st and 2nd level Barbarian Feats.
I think some classes REAALLLY want those class feats (Alchemist) and others are pretty meh. I think Rogue is pretty meh, Sorc, Wizard, and Barbarian are the ones I remember thinking I should Multi class with these classes because their early feats felt underwhelming.
Also, you only get benefit from Sudden Charge if you needed that extra Stride increment.
For alchemist, only bomber really wants it.
If you have a second class feat at the start quick bomber is useful for all alchemists. The action economy boost helps a lot and all alchemists will throw some bombs if just for debuffing.