Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds.

[graystone]

Ventnor wrote:

So, here's another kind of ridiculous idea I had. Start as a Scoundrel Rogue, so that you can begin the game with 18 Charisma, choose an ancestry like Elf or Gnome (I prefer Gnome myself) that will get you an innate arcane or primal cantrip, multiclass into Sorcerer to pick up even more Cantrips and to increase your proficiency with your attack cantrips, and pick up the Magical Trickster feat at level 4.

If you take a seer elf, you can start with 2 cantrips. Also, if you take Basic Blood Potency [Cantrip Expansion] or Minor Magic for more cantrips.

[Ventnor]

Greg.Everham wrote:

Correct me if my read of this is wrong... Telekinetic Projectile uses a standard ranged attack roll, not a spell attack roll? Which makes it quite an odd creature.

I don't think anyone knows what is going on with Telekinetic Projectile right now.

graystone wrote:

Ventnor wrote:

So, here's another kind of ridiculous idea I had. Start as a Scoundrel Rogue, so that you can begin the game with 18 Charisma, choose an ancestry like Elf or Gnome (I prefer Gnome myself) that will get you an innate arcane or primal cantrip, multiclass into Sorcerer to pick up even more Cantrips and to increase your proficiency with your attack cantrips, and pick up the Magical Trickster feat at level 4.

If you take a seer elf, you can start with 2 cantrips. Also, if you take Basic Blood Potency [Cantrip Expansion] or Minor Magic for more cantrips.

Gnomes can also start with 2 Cantrips if they have the Fey-Touched or Wellspring heritage, and get First-World Magic as an ancestry feat, so it really is a matter of personal preference I'd say.

[Siro]

Yeah with Telekinetic Projectile, on the one hand it would make sense it should be a Spell Attack Roll, as it would fall in line with how other spells worked/were converted from the playtest. {and settle some small debates in the process in how it suppose to would with other stuff such as Prof)

On the other hand, if it did use a Spell Attack Roll {most spellcasters would be better Spell Attack Rolls then Range Attacks} then it could become close to or become the default best damaging cantrip in the game. Other damaging cantrips generally increase there damage per level by 1d4, while TK increases by 1d6, and as the ability to change up its damage type. {Well, has a way to change up what physical damage type it deals anyways.). Making it a Range Attack could be a way to balance the cantrip.

[Paradozen]

Greg.Everham wrote:

Ventnor wrote:

So, here's another kind of ridiculous idea I had. Start as a Scoundrel Rogue, so that you can begin the game with 18 Charisma, choose an ancestry like Elf or Gnome (I prefer Gnome myself) that will get you an innate arcane or primal cantrip, multiclass into Sorcerer to pick up even more Cantrips and to increase your proficiency with your attack cantrips, and pick up the Magical Trickster feat at level 4.

The idea is that you are a Rogue who never attacks with a weapon. Instead, you have a cornucopia of different attacking cantrips that you can sneak attack with, which will also allow you to attack various enemy weaknesses and avoid enemy resistances that come up. Picking up Expert and Master spellcasting, in this case, is mainly to make your cantrip attacks as accurate as possible, although the extra utility and nova potential of your multiclass slots is a nice perk too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that Arcane is probably the best spell list for this idea, since you get 6 different kinds of damaging cantrips for a variety of situations: Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Electric Arc, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, and Telekinetic Projectile. The Primal list lacks Chill Touch and Telekinetic Projectile.

Correct me if my read of this is wrong... Telekinetic Projectile uses a standard ranged attack roll, not a spell attack roll? Which makes it quite an odd creature.

Nobody knows. You might be untrained, it might be a spell attack roll, perhaps you are supposed to use your weapon proficiencies or spell proficiency+dex modifier, but only the game developers can answer what you are supposed to. Ask your GM in the meanwhile.

[graystone]

Ventnor wrote:

Gnomes can also start with 2 Cantrips if they have the Fey-Touched or Wellspring heritage, and get First-World Magic as an ancestry feat, so it really is a matter of personal preference I'd say.

True, I prefer the ability to swap all my spells and the 30' move for the elf is a pretty good thing to have.

[Paradozen]

Looking to get as many cantrips as possible on the same character.

First, be a bard for all the in-class extra cantrips. You get 5 in your repetoire, then take Inspire Competence, Inspired Defense, Triple Time, Dirge of Doom, House of Imaginary Walls, Allegro, Cantrip Expansion, Sorcerer Dedication, and Cantrip Expansion again as a Sorcerer. Be a Gnome for First World Magic, Wellspring Gnome, and Animal Accomplice (with the Cantrip Connection familiar ability). You have the following cantrips:

• 8 from the occult list
• 2 From your Wellspring Gnome options
• 4 from your sorcerer list
• 7 Compositions

For a total of 21 at-will spells. 14 can be from the occult spell list, letting you know all but 2 of them.

[graystone]

Paradozen wrote:

Cantrip Expansion

This feat doesn't have: "Special You can select this feat multiple times." As such, I'm not sure you can do what you suggest.

[PhoenixSunrise]

This build mostly stayed intact from the playtest to the launch. I introduced my group to an NPC Champion/Paladin. Throws hatchets with returning runes (divine ally) and stores them in gloves of holding. So it looks like she's a walking tin can with no weapons. Plus, with Ranged Reprisal and Exalt, _everyone's_ getting reaction attacks all the time. I also gave her the Barbarian Dedication feat to add to her Vengeful Oath so those hatchets often get described as going _through_ someone's chest, not sticking into them.

[Paradozen]

graystone wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Cantrip Expansion

This feat doesn't have: "Special You can select this feat multiple times." As such, I'm not sure you can do what you suggest.

Ah, I thought it was 2 separate feats if you took it as a bard and as a sorcerer. One for your bard stuff and another for your sorcerer stuff. If not, I suppose that said bard must settle for a mere 19 cantrips.

[graystone]

Paradozen wrote:

graystone wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Cantrip Expansion

This feat doesn't have: "Special You can select this feat multiple times." As such, I'm not sure you can do what you suggest.

Ah, I thought it was 2 separate feats if you took it as a bard and as a sorcerer. One for your bard stuff and another for your sorcerer stuff. If not, I suppose that said bard must settle for a mere 19 cantrips.

Archives of nethys [the official online source] lists it as one feat with the traits [Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Wizard]. Even without that, I'd be leery about assuming 2 feats named the same were different. It could be a FAQ question I guess.

[prototype00]

Just a sanity check here, a regular Monk could carry around a Tower Shield, Flurry for two attacks and then raise the Shield and take cover behind it for +4 AC?

If it works, I’m calling it The Great Wall Style (aka Iron Coward).

[graystone]

prototype00 wrote:

Just a sanity check here, a regular Monk could carry around a Tower Shield, Flurry for two attacks and then raise the Shield and take cover behind it for +4 AC?

If it works, I’m calling it The Great Wall Style (aka Iron Coward).

Yep. Tower shield works for anyone that can carry around an extra 4 bulk and can use 2 actions to use. Of course the monk has to hope no enemy can figure out they can just walk around the shield and hit him without the +4...

[prototype00]

graystone wrote:

prototype00 wrote:

Just a sanity check here, a regular Monk could carry around a Tower Shield, Flurry for two attacks and then raise the Shield and take cover behind it for +4 AC?

If it works, I’m calling it The Great Wall Style (aka Iron Coward).

Yep. Tower shield works for anyone that can carry around an extra 4 bulk and can use 2 actions to use. Of course the monk has to hope no enemy can figure out they can just walk around the shield and hit him without the +4...

Rules as Written (under the Cover rules) that’s not a thing that can happen?

Once you’ve spent the actions on it, you get the bonus and only certain things deny it (I guess they assume you are moving the Tower Shield around to prevent just this sort of thing).

[graystone]

"Cover is relative, so you might simultaneously have cover against one creature and not another. Cover applies only if your path to the target is partially blocked." Pg#477 You need to look at cover and not JUST the taking cover action.

So someone you attack just has to walk 15' to see you unobstructed where they can then proceed to beat you at your normal non-cover AC.

[prototype00]

graystone wrote:

"Cover is relative, so you might simultaneously have cover against one creature and not another. Cover applies only if your path to the target is partially blocked." Pg#477 You need to look at cover and not JUST the taking cover action.

So someone you attack just has to walk 15' to see you unobstructed where they can then proceed to beat you at your normal non-cover AC.

All the examples they give there are for Static cover (like a wall or whatnot). Surely you could move the Tower Shield around? I need to see if I can check with a dev or something.

[Arachnofiend]

PF2 doesn't have the rule PF1 did where you have to pick a side of your square that the shield is facing. I'm pretty sure it just provides cover to you upon spending the appropriate action cost.

[graystone]

prototype00 wrote:

graystone wrote:

"Cover is relative, so you might simultaneously have cover against one creature and not another. Cover applies only if your path to the target is partially blocked." Pg#477 You need to look at cover and not JUST the taking cover action.

So someone you attack just has to walk 15' to see you unobstructed where they can then proceed to beat you at your normal non-cover AC.

All the examples they give there are for Static cover (like a wall or whatnot). Surely you could move the Tower Shield around? I need to see if I can check with a dev or something.

What sense is there to allow you to move it at will? You have to set it to a square side and that's were it is. The take cover action is "duck behind an obstacle to take better advantage of cover " not move a small wall around... I can't see why cover would work differently for this one specific item. In effect, you're taking that mobile shield and turning it into static cover with an action IMO. Maybe some future feat will give some towershield archetype the ability to get a 'reset tower shield' reaction but for now I think you're out of luck.

Arachnofiend wrote:

PF2 doesn't have the rule PF1 did where you have to pick a side of your square that the shield is facing. I'm pretty sure it just provides cover to you upon spending the appropriate action cost.

So he's flanked and cowering behind a towershield and getting cover from both? Even if one readies an action so they attack at the exact same time?

IMO, while the shield itself doesn't say 'pick a side' the cover rules themselves make it clear cover is based on "line from the center of your space to the center of the target’s space" to see it the item/object blocks that line. I can't see attacks from the ground, the sky and all sides getting the cover as described.

*shrug* you guys can add it to the thread listing mistakes/typos/corrections if you want. I know how it looks to me.

[Greg.Everham]

Siro wrote:

Yeah with Telekinetic Projectile, on the one hand it would make sense it should be a Spell Attack Roll, as it would fall in line with how other spells worked/were converted from the playtest. {and settle some small debates in the process in how it suppose to would with other stuff such as Prof)

On the other hand, if it did use a Spell Attack Roll {most spellcasters would be better Spell Attack Rolls then Range Attacks} then it could become close to or become the default best damaging cantrip in the game. Other damaging cantrips generally increase there damage per level by 1d4, while TK increases by 1d6, and as the ability to change up its damage type. {Well, has a way to change up what physical damage type it deals anyways.). Making it a Range Attack could be a way to balance the cantrip.

Your second point is what lead me to the conclusion that it MUST be a "standard" attack roll (Dex + some type of weapon proficiency), not a spell attack roll. If it's a spell attack, then the damage output is a tick better than everything else.

The flip side is that B/P/S damage seems to be resisted often, but rarely see a weakness in the stat block. If you take ONLY Telekinetic Projectile, you'll do your d6s + Casting Stat Mod, and you'll typically be able to avoid those weaknesses for full damage; however, you're not going to hit many things with a weakness to your element. If I'm reduced to cantrip spam, I'd much rather hit something with a weakness to my element and only d4s for damage than go up to d6s but not have the bonus damage cause I targeted a weakness.

So... yeah... I'm right back where I started. No idea. Good arguments on both sides as to how the rule is supposed to suss out. And, it's going to really hinge on that word from above whether or not this cantrip is really good or questionable.

[Kyrone]

Champion fun stuff.

Redeemer of Nethys
Use Staff two handed for d10 damage with deific weapon, Wizard dedication and basic spellcasting, having spell slots now we can use the magic staves.

Beat stuff with your Staff of Fire and use the charges for spells, increasing the amount of stuff that you cast while having a decent weapon on hand.

Magic Archer Champion

Sorcerer Dedication, Reach Spell for ranged Lay on Hands, Litany Against Wrath, Bespell Weapon.

In the turns that you use a focus spell your bow shots will be a little stronger and with Reach spell you increase the range of Lay on Hands from touch to 30ft letting you keep your distance.

[shroudb]

Kyrone wrote:

Champion fun stuff.

Redeemer of Nethys
Use Staff two handed for d10 damage with deific weapon, Wizard dedication and basic spellcasting, having spell slots now we can use the magic staves.

Beat stuff with your Staff of Fire and use the charges for spells, increasing the amount of stuff that you cast while having a decent weapon on hand.

Magic Archer Champion

Sorcerer Dedication, Reach Spell for ranged Lay on Hands, Litany Against Wrath, Bespell Weapon.

In the turns that you use a focus spell your bow shots will be a little stronger and with Reach spell you increase the range of Lay on Hands from touch to 30ft letting you keep your distance.

just keep in mind that for Staves you only get access to the highest level you can cast, so that's only level 1 with basic spellcasting.

[Xenocrat]

Greg.Everham wrote:

Siro wrote:

Yeah with Telekinetic Projectile, on the one hand it would make sense it should be a Spell Attack Roll, as it would fall in line with how other spells worked/were converted from the playtest. {and settle some small debates in the process in how it suppose to would with other stuff such as Prof)

On the other hand, if it did use a Spell Attack Roll {most spellcasters would be better Spell Attack Rolls then Range Attacks} then it could become close to or become the default best damaging cantrip in the game. Other damaging cantrips generally increase there damage per level by 1d4, while TK increases by 1d6, and as the ability to change up its damage type. {Well, has a way to change up what physical damage type it deals anyways.). Making it a Range Attack could be a way to balance the cantrip.

Your second point is what lead me to the conclusion that it MUST be a "standard" attack roll (Dex + some type of weapon proficiency), not a spell attack roll. If it's a spell attack, then the damage output is a tick better than everything else.

If Telekinetic Projectile is a spell roll the balance is just fine.

Acid Splash: 30' range, spell roll, splash damage, rarely resisted energy type, persistent crit damage. Starts off with lower damage, but catches up (when you include splash damage) later.

Chill Touch: Touch range, fort save, standard damage, rarely resisted damage type, special effect on things normally immune to that damage type.

Daze: 60', will save, low damage, but debuff on a crit fail and nonlethal damage

Electric Arc: 30', reflex save, rarely resisted/immune type, two targets, standard damage

Produce Flame: 30'/touch, spell roll, standard damage, persistent damage on crit and can flank with it in melee

Ray of Frost: 120', spell roll, standard damage, minor debuff on crit

Tanglefoot: 30', spell roll, speed debuff (no damage), immobilize on crit

Telekinetic Projectile: 30', spell roll, highest damage (+1 per spell level), no special crit debuff, subject to all the DR that isn't P/S/B (which is a lot).

These all have their niche in range, save/AC targeted, damage type for resistances, and special effects on a crit. An occult caster has a reason to take all three of Chill Touch (resistance avoidance), Daze (range and nonlethal for capturing), and Telekinetic Projectile (high damage against things that don't have DR/material or alignment). An arcane caster would still prefer Electric Arc in most cases and have a reason to pick Acid Splash, Produce Flame, and Ray of Frost for their own particular strengths.

[Ravingdork]

shroudb wrote:

Champion fun stuff.

Redeemer of Nethys
Use Staff two handed for d10 damage with deific weapon, Wizard dedication and basic spellcasting, having spell slots now we can use the magic staves.

Beat stuff with your Staff of Fire and use the charges for spells, increasing the amount of stuff that you cast while having a decent weapon on hand.

Looks a lot like my character, Shisio Dafoe. I like to use my free shifting weapon ability to transform the staff into a more appropriate and damaging weapon.

Makes it so I don't have to limit myself to Nethys.

Kyrone wrote:

just keep in mind that for Staves you only get access to the highest level you can cast, so that's only level 1 with basic spellcasting.

Sure, until you level up and get more spell slots and take the higher level feats.

[shroudb]

Ravingdork wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Champion fun stuff.

Redeemer of Nethys
Use Staff two handed for d10 damage with deific weapon, Wizard dedication and basic spellcasting, having spell slots now we can use the magic staves.

Beat stuff with your Staff of Fire and use the charges for spells, increasing the amount of stuff that you cast while having a decent weapon on hand.

Looks a lot like my character, Shisio Dafoe. I like to use my free shifting weapon ability to transform the staff into a more appropriate and damaging weapon.

Makes it so I don't have to limit myself to Nethys.

Kyrone wrote:

just keep in mind that for Staves you only get access to the highest level you can cast, so that's only level 1 with basic spellcasting.

Sure, until you level up and get more spell slots and take the higher level feats.

well, yeah? That's why i said "highest spell you can cast" he mentioned Basic spellcasting, which is level 1 only.

if he wants to progress his staff usage he'll need to pick up more spellcasting than basic.

[Ventnor]

So, in many of the Ranger threads I've looked it, it appears that quite a few people agree there are three main weapon setups that Rangers can go for which makes use of their unique class feats:

- Dual wielding, which focuses on making many attacks while minimizing multi-attack penalty.
- Bow Archery, which is fairly similar to dual wielding but at a range
- Crossbow Archery, which is all about making one super-accurate, high-damaging attack per round

Now, while I call the 3rd setup Crossbow Archery above, there is actually another weapon which works pretty well with the "1 big attack a round" paradigm: the halfling sling staff! While the halfling sling staff lacks the extreme range of some crossbows, 80 ft. is still respectable. Not to mention, the ability to deny enemies one of their actions by stunning them is a pretty nice benefit to get on a critical hit.

So, yeah. Give halfling rangers a chance!

[Arachnofiend]

Ventnor wrote:

So, in many of the Ranger threads I've looked it, it appears that quite a few people agree there are three main weapon setups that Rangers can go for which makes use of their unique class feats:

- Dual wielding, which focuses on making many attacks while minimizing multi-attack penalty.
- Bow Archery, which is fairly similar to dual wielding but at a range
- Crossbow Archery, which is all about making one super-accurate, high-damaging attack per round

Now, while I call the 3rd setup Crossbow Archery above, there is actually another weapon which works pretty well with the "1 big attack a round" paradigm: the halfling sling staff! While the halfling sling staff lacks the extreme range of some crossbows, 80 ft. is still respectable. Not to mention, the ability to deny enemies one of their actions by stunning them is a pretty nice benefit to get on a critical hit.

So, yeah. Give halfling rangers a chance!

I think there's a lot of potential for half-orc rangers too; as great as Flurry is for dual-wielding, it's also pretty solid for Forceful weapons. Who needs an agile offhand when you can just keep whacking away with your Necksplitter?

[graystone]

Ventnor wrote:

Now, while I call the 3rd setup Crossbow Archery above, there is actually another weapon which works pretty well with the "1 big attack a round" paradigm: the halfling sling staff! While the halfling sling staff lacks the extreme range of some crossbows, 80 ft. is still respectable. Not to mention, the ability to deny enemies one of their actions by stunning them is a pretty nice benefit to get on a critical hit.

So, yeah. Give halfling rangers a chance!

Well it get Propulsive over the crossbow but you lose crossbow ace [+2 damage and increase damage die to a 1d10] so you'll be dealing more damage unless you've got a 18 str damage with the crossbow at a longer range and the crit happens automatically if they are near a surface while the stun is a DC.

So a bit worse, but it does save a feat. It's too bad it's no longer a melee weapon too or it'd be a cool switch hitter weapon.

[prototype00]

So just running the Math on a lvl 1 Tower Shield Dwarven Monk.

The basic concept is that if you are engaged with a foe, and in Mountain Stance, you can:

1. Flurry For 2 Attacks
2. Raise the Tower Shield
3. Take Cover behind the Tower Shield

(Presumably the previous round, you can Move up, activate Mountain Stance and then Flurry)

For 4 AC, which RAW (I'm guessing specific Tower Shield rules trumps general cover rules here, but I'm not here to argue)

Quote:

This lasts until the shield is no longer

raised.

So that is a rather nice Lvl 1 achieveable AC of:

15 (Expert Unarmoured) + 4 (Mountain Stance: Status) + 4 (Tower Shield: Circumstance) = 23 which you can do every round and attack twice (1d8 +4 and Forceful).

I call it the Great Wall Monk.

prototype00

[graystone]

prototype00 wrote:

Quote:

This lasts until the shield is no longer

raised.

I think the important part is the "(and other creatures can Take Cover as normal using the cover from your shield)" and not that part of the section. For people to gain cover THEY'D have to know the location of your tower shield and it'd have to be static.

prototype00 wrote:

but I'm not here to argue

Cool, I'll leave it at what I posted then.

[Kyrone]

Polearm Ranger, because why not?

Flurry for -3/-6 MAP
Glaive for the Forceful property
Lvl 1 Monster Hunter
Lvl 2 Quick Draw is good for action economy, multiclass is acceptable here.
Lvl 4 Disrupt Prey, this is what we want, free action AoO and Polearm extend your range.
Lvl 6 Skirmish Strike so you can always be on the maximum reach range, if the foe try to run, disrupt prey, if it try to get closer, disrupt prey.
Lvl 8 Monster Warden
Lvl 10 Master Monster Hunter
Lvl 12 Double Prey, now you can Disrupt Prey two enemies.

That's it, you only really need three feats for this build, Disrupt Prey, Skirmish Strike and Double Prey the rest is free and could be used for animal companion or multiclass feats.

[C Note271]

First Level Halfling Ranger
Wielding a sling-staff, 1d10 Damage normally.
1st Level Ancestry Feat: Titan Slinger – When attacking Large or larger creatures, upgrade sling damage dice 1 step (1d12)
For Hunter Edge choose Precision – The first time you deal damage to your Hunter’s Prey in a round, you deal 1d8 precision damage.

A 1st Level Halfling Ranger can do 1d12 + 1d8 + half Strength Mod to an Ogre…. With a rock.

At 2nd Level take the Rogue’s Devotion feat and at 4th take the Sneak Attacker Archetype feat.
Then at 4th Level you can do 1d12 + 1d8 + 1d4 if they are flat-footed + half Strength Mod to an Ogre…. With a rock.

And if you Critical Hit, you can do the math from there.

[graystone]

C Note271 wrote:

1st Level Ancestry Feat: Titan Slinger – When attacking Large or larger creatures, upgrade sling damage dice 1 step (1d12)

I think Titan Slinger only works with actual slings, not with any weapon from the sling group.

[shroudb]

graystone wrote:

C Note271 wrote:

1st Level Ancestry Feat: Titan Slinger – When attacking Large or larger creatures, upgrade sling damage dice 1 step (1d12)

I think Titan Slinger only works with actual slings, not with any weapon from the sling group.

i can see that since it doesn't specify "sling group".

but on the flipside, if it was only the one weapon -Sling, why write all the text about next size and whatnot and not simply write "d8" ?

[graystone]

shroudb wrote:

graystone wrote:

C Note271 wrote:

1st Level Ancestry Feat: Titan Slinger – When attacking Large or larger creatures, upgrade sling damage dice 1 step (1d12)

I think Titan Slinger only works with actual slings, not with any weapon from the sling group.

i can see that since it doesn't specify "sling group".

but on the flipside, if it was only the one weapon -Sling, why write all the text about next size and whatnot and not simply write "d8" ?

Future-proofing I assume: there seems to be a lot of it in the game. For instance, they might come out with different kinds of ammo that deal different base damages and to avoid someone saying that their d4 specialty ammo should now deal 1d8 because they have Titan Slinger and it just said 'slings deal 1d8 to larger foes.'

[shroudb]

Way of the angry dragon:

You start of as a regular Str based Dragon monk. Grab animal barbarian MC, grab raging intimidation, grab animal skin at 12. Rage is now +2 damage, +1 ac, +CON+Lvl hp

you can intimidate while raging, you can roar to mass intimidate every few rounds, you get a few free skill feats that you would want to pick up either way as an intimidator.

Animal skin caps your Dex at 16 instead of 20, but (acounting for the +!status bonus) is just 1 lower than max AC either way and it means easier to max that Cha for the intimidation DC

[Ventnor]

Here's kind of a funky idea:

You go Animal Totem Barbarian, and you chose one of the animals that primarily attacks by biting or headbutting. Then, you buy 2 shields.

I can already hear you saying, "But Ventnor! Wielding 2 shields is pointless!"

NOT if you expect your shields to break in combat. Which they will, if you do a lot of blocking. Basically, you have a couple of big sources of damage mitigation on your forearms which will keep you healthy while you chomp on your enemies enough until they go down.

[Colette Brunel]

Two shields can work at lower levels, though it gives diminishing returns when sturdy shields come into play.

[prototype00]

graystone wrote:

prototype00 wrote:

Quote:

This lasts until the shield is no longer

raised.

I think the important part is the "(and other creatures can Take Cover as normal using the cover from your shield)" and not that part of the section. For people to gain cover THEY'D have to know the location of your tower shield and it'd have to be static.

prototype00 wrote:

but I'm not here to argue

Cool, I'll leave it at what I posted then.

Just a coda to this,I have talked to a dozen people on Discord and here about this, and you are the only one to promulgate this view, most people say you can just move the shield (like any other shield) and you don't plant it in the ground like some pillar, so I guess I'm going with the majority until further notice?

Also, mechanically, to be able to invalidate something that all the Tower Shield using Fighters and Champions just spent two actions on by moving 10ft makes Tower Shields Screamingly useless in general, I suppose that’s the other reason.

prototype00

[J'Tal]

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there any access to play different Ancestry/Races? What about Prestige classes?

My favorite build is a Drow Assassin with max stealth and decent damage. I usually use a Brute Rogue route, but I'm still figuring out the rules.

Thank you

[graystone]

prototype00 wrote:

Also, mechanically, to be able to invalidate something that all the Tower Shield using Fighters and Champions just spent two actions on by moving 10ft makes Tower Shields Screamingly useless in general, I suppose that’s the other reason.

It's meant to be USED as cover and that's mostly for ranged attacks and area attacks. For someone 60', 120' or 200' away, it's not useless at all. If you take an action to hide behind a pillar when the enemy is 10' away, it seems odd to complain they can walk around it. The tower shields benefit is you can set up cover anywhere so advancing down an empty corridor with people firing arrows at you, you instead can get cover as you move forward.

prototype00 wrote:

most people say you can just move the shield (like any other shield) and you don't plant it in the ground like some pillar

So how do "most" people suggest that people behind the character take cover then as it's states they can and they don't get to "move it around like any other shield"? DO they randomly go in and out of cover depending on what attack you're focusing on?

"(and other creatures can Take Cover as normal using the cover from your shield)" How can they do that as they are required to know "if your path to the target is partially blocked" and there's no way to know that it it's in content motion as you assume. Otherwise, positioning doesn't matter at all anyone next to you can take cover even if they are in front of you. I can't find anything that allows the tower shield to ignore the cover rules. You don't have to believe me, that's fine: I'm just going to point out that it's questionable when I see someone suggest the get full AC even when someone goes around your cover.

[prototype00]

graystone wrote:

prototype00 wrote:

Also, mechanically, to be able to invalidate something that all the Tower Shield using Fighters and Champions just spent two actions on by moving 10ft makes Tower Shields Screamingly useless in general, I suppose that’s the other reason.

It's meant to be USED as cover and that's mostly for ranged attacks and area attacks. For someone 60', 120' or 200' away, it's not useless at all. If you take an action to hide behind a pillar when the enemy is 10' away, it seems odd to complain they can walk around it. The tower shields benefit is you can set up cover anywhere so advancing down an empty corridor with people firing arrows at you, you instead can get cover as you move forward.

prototype00 wrote:

most people say you can just move the shield (like any other shield) and you don't plant it in the ground like some pillar

So how do "most" people suggest that people behind the character take cover then as it's states they can and they don't get to "move it around like any other shield"? DO they randomly go in and out of cover depending on what attack you're focusing on?

"(and other creatures can Take Cover as normal using the cover from your shield)" How can they do that as they are required to know "if your path to the target is partially blocked" and there's no way to know that it it's in content motion as you assume. Otherwise, positioning doesn't matter at all anyone next to you can take cover even if they are in front of you. I can't find anything that allows the tower shield to ignore the cover rules. You don't have to believe me, that's fine: I'm just going to point out that it's questionable when I see someone suggest the get full AC even when someone goes around your cover.

Let us agree to disagree then, as we have spent enough time debating and this is a tangent to the thread.

Edit: Apologies, that came out sharper than intended on account of frustration. As said, let us agree to disagree and not bring this lengthy discussion into other threads in the future.

[Ventnor]

J'Tal wrote:

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there any access to play different Ancestry/Races? What about Prestige classes?

My favorite build is a Drow Assassin with max stealth and decent damage. I usually use a Brute Rogue route, but I'm still figuring out the rules.

Thank you

There's no true Drow ancestry options as of yet, although the Cavern Elf Heritage would fit your concept best, since it gets Darkvision. There aren't really such things as "Prestige Classes" in PF2 either, although since you mentioned a "brute rogue" route, playing as a rogue with the ruffian racket would be the best route to use.

[J'Tal]

Ventnor wrote:

J'Tal wrote:

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there any access to play different Ancestry/Races? What about Prestige classes?

My favorite build is a Drow Assassin with max stealth and decent damage. I usually use a Brute Rogue route, but I'm still figuring out the rules.

Thank you

There's no true Drow ancestry options as of yet, although the Cavern Elf Heritage would fit your concept best, since it gets Darkvision. There aren't really such things as "Prestige Classes" in PF2 either, although since you mentioned a "brute rogue" route, playing as a rogue with the ruffian racket would be the best route to use.

Thank you. I'm then going to assume this is going to be coming via an 'Advanced Players Guide'. Eventually...

Does anyone know what the closest class/match you can get to an assassin would be?

[Paradozen]

J'Tal wrote:

Ventnor wrote:

J'Tal wrote:

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there any access to play different Ancestry/Races? What about Prestige classes?

My favorite build is a Drow Assassin with max stealth and decent damage. I usually use a Brute Rogue route, but I'm still figuring out the rules.

Thank you

There's no true Drow ancestry options as of yet, although the Cavern Elf Heritage would fit your concept best, since it gets Darkvision. There aren't really such things as "Prestige Classes" in PF2 either, although since you mentioned a "brute rogue" route, playing as a rogue with the ruffian racket would be the best route to use.

Thank you. I'm then going to assume this is going to be coming via an 'Advanced Players Guide'. Eventually...

Does anyone know what the closest class/match you can get to an assassin would be?

Conceptually, a rogue has feats that work for assassin. Poison Weapon, Twist the Knife, Quick Draw, and Spring from Shadows all seem to fit at a glance.

[Arachnofiend]

A Ranger can do the "one shot one kill" fantasy relatively well with the Precision edge.

[Gisher]

shroudb wrote:

well, yeah? That's why i said "highest spell you can cast" he mentioned Basic spellcasting, which is level 1 only.

if he wants to progress his staff usage he'll need to pick up more spellcasting than basic.

Basic Spellcasting gets you 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level slots.

[Kyrone]

BEHOLD THE SUPPORT BARBARIAN.

Animal Barbarian

Bard Dedication

Lingering Composition (Use something else here and retrain to this when get the access
to Inspire Courage)

Animal Skin

Inspire Courage

Share Rage

Predator Pounce

First turn Inspire Courage with Lingering Composition, Rage, then share that Rage, after lvl 11 you can share the rage with the same action that you enter it. Predator Pounce helps with the action economy of the first turn as well.

Because of the Charisma requisite for Bard you could get the Champion multiclass with Multitalented for the reaction for damage reduction on allies and give an punch for those trying to hurt your BFFs.

[Greg.Everham]

Kyrone wrote:

Polearm Ranger, because why not?

Flurry for -3/-6 MAP
Glaive for the Forceful property
Lvl 1 Monster Hunter
Lvl 2 Quick Draw is good for action economy, multiclass is acceptable here.
Lvl 4 Disrupt Prey, this is what we want, free action AoO and Polearm extend your range.
Lvl 6 Skirmish Strike so you can always be on the maximum reach range, if the foe try to run, disrupt prey, if it try to get closer, disrupt prey.
Lvl 8 Monster Warden
Lvl 10 Master Monster Hunter
Lvl 12 Double Prey, now you can Disrupt Prey two enemies.

That's it, you only really need three feats for this build, Disrupt Prey, Skirmish Strike and Double Prey the rest is free and could be used for animal companion or multiclass feats.

Same build... but replace the "gotta take something here" feats like Quick Draw, Monster Warden, etc with Barbarian Dedication, Instinct Ability (Giant), and Giant's Stature. Now you've got a 15' reach MAP-abusing monster who can Disrupt Prey from quite a distance out.

[Gisher]

Ventnor wrote:

So, here's another kind of ridiculous idea I had. Start as a Scoundrel Rogue, so that you can begin the game with 18 Charisma, choose an ancestry like Elf or Gnome (I prefer Gnome myself) that will get you an innate arcane or primal cantrip, multiclass into Sorcerer to pick up even more Cantrips and to increase your proficiency with your attack cantrips, and pick up the Magical Trickster feat at level 4.

The idea is that you are a Rogue who never attacks with a weapon. Instead, you have a cornucopia of different attacking cantrips that you can sneak attack with, which will also allow you to attack various enemy weaknesses and avoid enemy resistances that come up. Picking up Expert and Master spellcasting, in this case, is mainly to make your cantrip attacks as accurate as possible, although the extra utility and nova potential of your multiclass slots is a nice perk too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that Arcane is probably the best spell list for this idea, since you get 6 different kinds of damaging cantrips for a variety of situations: Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Electric Arc, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, and Telekinetic Projectile. The Primal list lacks Chill Touch and Telekinetic Projectile.

That concept reminds me of the Vigilante Warlock. Half-Elf works nicely for this, too. Otherworldly Magic gets you one cantrip at 1st level, and Adapted Cantrip would let your Arcane Sorcerer get Disrupt Undead from another list at 5th. Cantrip Expansion through Basic Blood Potency would get you to five of those seven cantrips. The Minor Magic Rogue Feat will get you the last two.

[Xenocrat]

The ultimate Disintegration magic slinger!

20th level universalist wizard with Bard dedication, Lingering Composition, Dirge of Doom, Rogue dedication, a Rogue 1-2 feat of your choice, and Dread Striker. Wizard feats are Spell Penetration, Quickened Casting, and Bond Conservation, and Spell Combination. You're carrying a Staff of Divination with 10 charges for True Strike.

This combo allows you to impose a -3 to AC on opponents within 30' (Dirge of Doom frightened 1 plus flat footed from Dread Striker) and a -2 to saves (Spell Focus plus frightened 1).

You fill your 8th, 9th, and 10th level spell combination slots with double Disintegrates, doing 24d10(8th), 28d10(9th), and 32d10(10th) damage.

Round 1: Are they within 30'? Lingering Composition (free), Dirge of Doom (one action), True Strike (one action), quickened 10th level Disintegrate. If they're not in range or your already spent your quickened spell, do the first two, then move into range, using your extra action for whatever. (Repulsion precast also might be wise given how much you're going to be sitting still for what is to come.)

Round 2: True Strike followed by 9th level Disintegrate. Rinse and repeat.

Once you run out of your 8-10th level Disintegrates you can consider using your bond to recast them, noting that if you kept your quicken use around you can still squeeze in a True Strike with a Bond Conservation use to chain a repeat of your 10th followed by your 8th. That's up to seven disintegrates totalling 192d10, all rolling twice against heavily debuffed enemies. Go get some crits leading to crit failed saves or at least failed saves.