Queries for The All-Seeing Orb


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Quandary wrote:

What are Getting Lost rules like?

What are rules for Fog/Smoke like?
Anything on varying levels of detail/awareness impacted by those type of effects or distance?
(e.g. being able to tell there are some figures atop a far-off hill, but not being able to discern who/what they are)

Any other highlights from Environment rules?

Spoiler:
I couldn't find them.

I kid, I kid. They're pretty simple, tied to the survival "sense direction" exploration option. GM sets a DC and if you fail, you don't know the direction and are likely hopelessly lost. Without a compass, you take a -2 penalty.
Cardinal direction with the sun is Untrained, so that's generally DC 10.

Interestingly, I can't find any rules on vision distance under normal conditions, but haze limits visibility to about 3 miles, so presumably longer than that. Perception under general conditions is a little more abstracted. There's no table of modifiers for distances that mean you technically should never notice someone that's about 300 feet away because +1/10 feet is brutally hard.

Instead, there's clear definitions for bright/dim light, darkness, precise and imprecise senses, special senses, and the various states of how noticed a thing is. I think they're more polished/clear than the playtest, but they're very much in that mold. It's less of a numbers game until you roll the checks, which are mostly perception vs. stealth DCs or vice-versa.

The environmental rules give you lots of different descriptions of potential conditions your players could encounter and straightforward recommendations for adjudicating them. Potential damage is referred to against a simple table covering Minor through Massive damage. There is a table with proficiency DC bands covering a ton of conditions. There are two pages of natural disasters. Being immersed in lava does massive damage each round, which is 18d6-24d6. Just being near it will do minor fire damage from the heat, which is 1d6-2d6.

The theme here is quick, usable, playable advice. If you take the assumption that PCs are competent adventurers, and the narrative generally assumes they'll get where they need to go barring something interesting, the book starts giving advice on that line where things start getting interesting.


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Xenocrat wrote:
RicoTheBold wrote:
Thebazilly wrote:
oholoko wrote:

Is there any way to become legendary(with a weapon group) with any class except fighter? I mean barbarians getting +8 dmg when legendary but not being able to be legendary irks me to no end xD.

Maybe they are doing it cause of future class archetypes.

I would assume it's future-proofing for any archetypes that add legendary proficiency later. Based on what I know, there are very limited ways to increase weapon proficiency...

1. General Feat (Untrained to Trained Only)
2. Ancestry Feat (Up to Master for racial weapons)
3. Class Progression (Up to Master for class-proficient weapons, Legendary for Fighters)

That said, I don't have a book yet!

** spoiler omitted **
I’m told the general feat for weapon proficiency is on 269.

So it is. I swear I looked at the general feat table twice and didn't see it, but it's also right there, taunting me.

Spoiler:
That said, taking fighter dedication lets you take Diverse Weapon Expert at level 12, giving you expert proficiency in simple/martial weapons. Whether that's worth the difference between a precious class feat and a skill feat is up for debate.


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Edge93 wrote:

Did Certain Strike make it to the CRB, and if so what does it do?

(In the PT it was a level 10 Fighter feat, a one action Press attack that had the normal effect of a Strike on a hit or crit but if you missed [but not critical fail IIRC] then you did minimum damage. This was heckin strong if you cheesed flat damage boosts like the Forceful trait or enemy Weaknesses, but with Weapon Specialization this could be nuts even without the cheese if it stayed the same)

Spoiler:
Still there. Fighter feat 10, Press trait, one action, melee strike that gains the failure effect of doing any damage it would have done on a hit, excluding all damage dice (from runes, spells, special abilities, or the weapon).

Technically that's weaker, since in the playtest it was as if you'd rolled ones on all the damage dice.


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How blasty have storm order druids turned out with the change to focus?

Please and thak you.


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Quandary wrote:
What is the situation with General Feats, any notable additions vs Playtest?

Spoiler:
Shorter list, actually.

- Canny Acumen has replaced Alertness, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes. It lets you bump any one of your saves or perception to expert, and at 17th level it goes to master. That's probably good, I feel like every one of those were the "right" choice almost all the time, so it's nice to limit it and open up other choices.
- Incredible Initiative gives +2 to initiative now.
- Ancestral Paragon is now 3rd level.
- Breath Control was reworded and I'd have to look up other rules to know if it's stronger or weaker.
- Fast Recovery is shorter because Enervated doesn't exist.
- Ride was rewritten and has clear benefits that are still good with the updated handle animal rules (no need to make a check, non-companion mount acts on your turn instead of some other turn)
- Shield block was added for classes that don't get it for free
- Toughness reduces the DC of recovery checks by 1 instead of providing a circumstance bonus, which is probably because flat checks don't actually take bonuses so if they didn't reword it it would have been wrong. It also just gives your your level in HP, rather than the higher of your level or 4.
- Weapon Proficiency turned invisible or something, because I kept looking right past it.
- Incredible Investiture is new, and is level 11 (eleven) and takes 16 Cha (sixteen, not a typo) but lets you invest up to 12 items (instead of the default limit of 10). This basically replaced Remarkable Resonance.
- Expeditious Search is the same.

And really, really importantly: The feat tables have a "Benefits" column with a summary of what the heck it is. They cut the Traits column, which was basically "General, Skill" for 97% of all of the feats anyway.


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Some Kind of Chymist wrote:

How blasty have storm order druids turned out with the change to focus?

Please and thak you.

Spoiler:

Quick note. Since I'm getting more and more into the advice, my style is a little min-max with a lot of doing a weird concept because I think it's interesting (mechanically) or entertaining for some reason. I like Druids, so I've thought about them a lot in the last week.

Blasty-ish. If you assume most combats are 5 rounds or less, and your first level Storm Order Druid has 2 focus (they get an extra), it's pretty easy to spam Tempest Surge the first two rounds. Is it good? It's okay.
It's better single target damage than most cantrips, and if the foe fails the reflex save also brings a pretty harsh debuff for your friends to take advantage of (clumsy 2 for 1 round is -2 to Dex-stuff) and a nice little 1 persistent electricity damage rider. It also goes up every single spell level, but that's pretty much the same as cantrips these days. If you roll well on your d12s, and the enemy rolls poorly on their saves, it's punishing.

Storm Retribution is where tempest surge kinda feels like it should shine for me, because if you're being critically hit anyway getting a free blast (action-wise) is nice. But you're being critically hit, which probably means you're not doing something right as a blaster, so I'd likely skip it to encourage myself to not do dumb tactical moves. Counterargument is that the Druid's higher HP is a party resource that you're not using if you never take a hit. If you have one or more Champions in the party, getting attacked might even be a good thing for triggering their reactions.

Wind Caller to pick up the stormwind flight focus spell at 8 is nice, since you're probably not wild shaping for flight, and it tops off your focus pool at 3. Druid's vestments is a 10th level item that lets you get another one once/day in a pinch.

I'd probably suggest adding summoning to your repertoire or doubling down on more blast spells, but you're a full caster with a lot of options and some feats to spare on a very wide-ranging class, so you've got options.

Invoke Disaster to get storm lord is cool, but it comes late at 18, although it's not a bad way to use your Effortless Concentration you picked up at 16 if you're tired of summoning stuff.


Arcana/Occult/Divine/Primal of Sorcerer, did they change from the playtest?

Channel Smite still exist in the Cleric feats?


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Kyrone wrote:
Arcana/Occult/Divine/Primal of Sorcerer, did they change from the playtest?

Like how?

Spoiler:
They still have all of those. 2 bloodlines per, except for Divine, which gets 4.
Kyrone wrote:
Channel Smite still exist in the Cleric feats?

Spoiler:
Yeah, still 4th level. Technically you no longer need to use one of your special harm/heal slots to power it, any casting will work.

Also, channel is gone and replaced with special harm/heal slots.

Channel Smite was reworded a bit, but mechanically is otherwise the same.


How practical is it to build a decent archer rogue?


RicoTheBold wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Arcana/Occult/Divine/Primal of Sorcerer, did they change from the playtest?

Like how? ** spoiler omitted **

Kyrone wrote:
Channel Smite still exist in the Cleric feats?
** spoiler omitted **

Ops, I forgot to add, the Arcana/Occult/Divine/Primal Evolution feats of sorcerer, if these feats changed from the playtest.


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The Sesquipedalian Thaumaturge wrote:
How practical is it to build a decent archer rogue?

Spoiler:
I think it probably works okay. You're definitely going to want to step up your sneak attack stuff, but some pages back I give some suggestions on triggering flat-footed from range, mostly by focusing on making foes frightened.

It looks super hard to build an objectively bad character by accident.


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Kyrone wrote:
Ops, I forgot to add, the Arcana/Occult/Divine/Primal Evolution feats of sorcerer, if these feats changed from the playtest.

Spoiler:

- Arcane Evolution lets you keep a spellbook like a wizard and pick one from that to add to your repertoire, rather than having to buy scrolls. If you pick a spell already in your repertoire, you can treat it as a signature spell (spontaneous heightening and/or downcasting). Still gives a skill of your choice.
- Divine evolution gives an extra top-level slot for heal or harm, which matches how cleric channeling was replaced with dedicated slots.
- Occult evolution works the same, and is good for one mental occult spell added to your list once/day if you spend a minute to do so, and still gives training in a new skill.
- Primal evolution gives you an extra top-level slot to cast summon animal or summon plants, because summon nature's ally was split into multiple spells

The Arcane one is a straight improvement and helps pure sorcerers, and even someone multiclassing in for arcane probably is going to consider this a must have. The others are all okay by comparison.


Are Satyrs in the bestiary? If so, any noteworthy difference from 1e?
Thanks!


Something I am curious about are spell shapes and sizes. Do they follow a similar pattern to PF1 or have they been altered at all? I have always hated drawing the weird patterns to determine if targets are in the area of effect.

Much appreciated.


This is a mix of a rules and reveals post, since I don't know how much of this has been revealed. As a sorc you get focus every 10 mins, regardless of what you do. I'm trying to think of other classes this would combo well with and I'm wondering about druid. Are wild shape feats focus spells now? Could I ignore them until I got sorc feats so I could use focus spells more reliably?

All of that is a moot point if duration of wild shapes is a minute but I thought I remembered they got increased duration.


What levels does the Champion get weapon specialization and armour specialization? I'm confused from GCP Champion at PaizoCon having Weapon Specialization by 7th level, but no indication of having Armour Specialization...


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Iron_Matt17 wrote:
What levels does the Champion get weapon specialization and armour specialization? I'm confused from GCP Champion at PaizoCon having Weapon Specialization by 7th level, but no indication of having Armour Specialization...

Spoiler:
Champion gains both weapon and armor specialization at 7th level.

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Joe Hex wrote:

Are Satyrs in the bestiary? If so, any noteworthy difference from 1e?

Thanks!

Spoiler:
Level 4 instead of CR 4. Play the Pipes works similarly.

Has some bard composition cantrips, which is new. Dumps the summon spell. Also carries around some magic wine that gives a temporary bonus to will saves that's better against fear. No DR, but a lot more HP. Weakness 5 to cold iron is the typical replacement for turning off DR with a specific metal. Other numbers are different due to edition changes, attack numbers look a little high, so he's likely to actually hit you with that shortbow or dagger if he brings it out, but the damage isn't especially worrisome.

Actually, that high attack might make help keep them competitive as a nuisance summon with summon fey.


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Quandary wrote:
What is the situation with General Feats, any notable additions vs Playtest?

General Feats:
Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, and the Perception feat all got rolled into 1 feat (Canny Acumen) so you can't get it more than once.

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Duskreign wrote:

Something I am curious about are spell shapes and sizes. Do they follow a similar pattern to PF1 or have they been altered at all? I have always hated drawing the weird patterns to determine if targets are in the area of effect.

Much appreciated.

Spoiler:
They're the same for cones and bursts. Emanations (auras) are depicted, and vary depending on the size of the monster doing the emanation. One of the 30 foot lines looks slightly different (and is more consistent with the other lines). More/bigger diagrams are included for 30 foot radius bursts and 60 foot lines/cones.

I use a virtual tabletop (which doesn't actually match perfectly on line spells), so I don't have to draw the weird patterns. I'd highly recommend getting some templates (maybe make them out of wire clothes hangers or something) for some of those shapes for an actual tabletop.


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Gaulin wrote:

This is a mix of a rules and reveals post, since I don't know how much of this has been revealed. As a sorc you get focus every 10 mins, regardless of what you do. I'm trying to think of other classes this would combo well with and I'm wondering about druid. Are wild shape feats focus spells now? Could I ignore them until I got sorc feats so I could use focus spells more reliably?

All of that is a moot point if duration of wild shapes is a minute but I thought I remembered they got increased duration.

Spoiler:
Yeah, if you want. I don't think it's necessarily a huge burden to have the party stop for 10 minutes so you can specifically regain your focus, especially if anyone has medicine skill or needs to repair a shield or something, but the focus pool is a common pool, so this works exactly as you'd expect if you add some sorcerer focus to the mix. You wouldn't be able to do it until 4th level, though, and it'd take two feats. One to get sorcerer dedication at 2, and one to get the focus bloodline power at 4. You're almost certainly better off spending those on more druid stuff.

You can also get a second druid focus point quickly by starting as a plant or storm order (for the extra focus point they appear to grant), then take Order Explorer to get wild shape at 2nd level. You'll lose out on Wild Morph, which lets you kinda half-morph, but if you're committing to going fully wild shape, the two kind of compete for the same space.

About the only thing I don't love about the druid design is that such weird order selection quirks might actually be better than starting in the order you plan to mainly focus on.

Forgot to mention. Duration is still a minute without Form Control (Druid 4) to extend it to an hour but it requires taking a shape 2 spell levels lower than normal. At really low levels, though, that's not much of an option anyway. Pest form is not for combat, but lasts 10 minutes out of the gate. You can start changing into animal form as a level 2 spell (3rd level caster), which means form control will let you stay for an hour when you can cast level 4 spells (7th level caster), but you're also skipping out on two levels of heightening, and that's where you start getting large size and reach.

Basically, wild shape is for combat unless you're scouting with a weak form or something. You can't cast spells in wild shape. You can't talk in wild shape.


Is the Monk's Timeless Body still there? Is there any other way you can achieve "soft/safe immortality" via class feats?


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Lucas Yew wrote:
Is the Monk's Timeless Body still there? Is there any other way you can achieve "soft/safe immortality" via class feats?

I answered a more general version of this earlier where I didn't consider the monk's feats.

[spoiler]Yes. 14th level feat. You cease aging, and get a +2 status bonus to saving throws against poisons ad diseases, and you gain resistance to poison damage equal to half your level.

There are no mechanical rules for aging, though, so it doesn't stop penalties from accruing because they don't exist. Whether or not you die of old age when your time is up like in the previous edition's version of Timeless body is a mystery.

I posted earlier Druids have a very similar option at 14, with the same unanswered question about whether they still die of old age. But they can also permanently become a plant, which I figure probably gives them the edge on ol' father time.[spoiler]


Someone mentioned a tongue attack for the frog-based animal totem barbarian. What sorts of abilities do the animal totem barbarians get? Does the frog totem get an improved jump or other cool stuff as well? The idea of a green-skinned half-orc frog barbarian fighting like a chimera from Fullmetal Alchemist or a mutant from TMNT suddenly sounds really fun.


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Lucas Yew wrote:
Is the Monk's Timeless Body still there? Is there any other way you can achieve "soft/safe immortality" via class feats?

By the way,

Spoiler:
There aren't explicit mechanics, but the CRB does lay out one straightforward way to be immortal: Become a Bleachling. Gnomes are confirmed to never die of old age, only the Bleaching, and Bleachlings don't die of that, so...

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RicoTheBold wrote:
Edge93 wrote:

Did Certain Strike make it to the CRB, and if so what does it do?

(In the PT it was a level 10 Fighter feat, a one action Press attack that had the normal effect of a Strike on a hit or crit but if you missed [but not critical fail IIRC] then you did minimum damage. This was heckin strong if you cheesed flat damage boosts like the Forceful trait or enemy Weaknesses, but with Weapon Specialization this could be nuts even without the cheese if it stayed the same)
** spoiler omitted **

Interesting... So it loses the 1 per die, but having Weapon Specialization now pretty well makes up for that. But the main cheesy use of Certain Strike was using Forceful, Twin, or Charge for the +1/2 per die modifier, and by your description it sounds like those abilities might not apply since there are no dice on a miss so no bonus? A good design choice if that is how it works. It was kinda broken in the PT. Anything like Inspire Courage or Enlarge that boosts damage flatly is great, but not so broken. Sounds like it's still bonkers against weakness, but no more 11-14 (at 10th level) and 19-25 (at 20th) per miss (that's just with Forceful, more if you added property runes) tearing up HP pools. Now it's... 8 at 10th, 10 at 13th, 15 at 20th? Compared to 8, 9, and 13 at those levels if you had no trait cheese or damaging property runes in the PT.

Glad to see it's stuck around, I love the ability despite how plain it is, and it sounds like the tweak to it is well done.


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What archetypes are in the Core book other than the multiclass archetypes?

EDIT: Nvm I found the answer, should have used the search function earlier.


Thanks for all the info guys...

Have any of the class abilities changed since the Playtest? As in, getting certain abilities earlier or later? As far as I have seen they have only ADDED more abilities. For example, the Champion got only Armored Fortitude at level 7. Now it sounds like they've tweaked Armored Fort by adding Armour specialization to it and also throwing in Weapon Specialization on top of that! (I am by no means complaining...) ;^)


Could we get some more infos about cleric domains? Maybe just the most common ones Like battle, healing, etc...


Ds25 wrote:
Could we get some more infos about cleric domains? Maybe just the most common ones Like battle, healing, etc...

I concur with this. I'm specifically interested in the Light Domain, if that's ok.

Also, an odd question for the Bestiary. Is the Solar in it? Or any 20+ Good aligned creatures?


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RicoTheBold wrote:
- Ancestral Paragon is now 3rd level.

What, you mean I can't take General Training into Ancestral Paragon into General Training into the feat I actually wanted any more?

Disappointed, Paizo, 0/10.


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Is there a good way to make Unarmored martials viable when you aren't a Monk? Preferably something other than the Monk dedication but if that does it then I'd like to know that too.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Investing Magic Items, how does it work?


What is the damage on heal/harm when used to attack? And how does it scale with level.

Thank you!


How many trained skills does each class get at first level?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How many player options are in the AP and standalone adventure?

How many unique monsters are in each?


RicoTheBold wrote:
Gaulin wrote:

This is a mix of a rules and reveals post, since I don't know how much of this has been revealed. As a sorc you get focus every 10 mins, regardless of what you do. I'm trying to think of other classes this would combo well with and I'm wondering about druid. Are wild shape feats focus spells now? Could I ignore them until I got sorc feats so I could use focus spells more reliably?

All of that is a moot point if duration of wild shapes is a minute but I thought I remembered they got increased duration.

** spoiler omitted **...

That is quite a few loopholes to climb through, but at least it's possible! Thank you very much.


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1. Are there clear rules for throwing improvised objects (and any feat support)? [Monk in a bar brawl throwing a tankard for example]

2. Abadar get any cool granted spells beyond the illusion of wealth one Erik Mona used in one stream? [And about how big is the write up for each Diety about what spells/domains/anthema/weapon etc. (Also are those in the Cleric section or elsewhere (like in a spot with world lore stuff))]

3. Is the abberant bloodline suitably abberant?

4. Is the Mega bomb feat suitably mega?

5. What are the Halfling bonus language options?

6. Any favourite weird spell?

7. Did Performance get any interesting skill feats? Likewise Thievery?

8. Can Monks be non-lawful now?

9. Any interesting magic hats in the book? What about magic travelling gear like tents?

10. Do you think that Storm order druids or Elemental Bloodline sorcerers make a better 'wrath of the storm' type character?

Please and thank you.


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The damage on heal/harm is 1d8 per spell level, seemingly regardless of how many actions you use.

On unarmored martials:

Spoiler:
I should say. Mountain Stance and Animal Skin provide solid class specific options, but in general the item bonuses from armor are so low you can probably go without. Bracers of Armor or Mage armor can also help. At very low levels you might want to throw on some leather armor, but by level 10 if you have max dexterity you're at the same AC in Explorer's Clothes or Bracers of Armor.

Your armor choice is generally much less significant. Penalties are easy to get rid of, TAC is gone, and both dex caps and item bonuses have been shrunk. So much of your AC just comes from proficiency now.

The Exchange

Do Mutagens still have an onset time?


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Captain Morgan wrote:

The damage on heal/harm is 1d8 per spell level, seemingly regardless of how many actions you use.

Drat. I suppose that was inevitable though, having the damage be as strong as the healing on the 2 action version (1d8+8 per spell level if I heard right?) might be a bit broken. XD


Edge93 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

The damage on heal/harm is 1d8 per spell level, seemingly regardless of how many actions you use.

Drat. I suppose that was inevitable though, having the damage be as strong as the healing on the 2 action version (1d8+8 per spell level if I heard right?) might be a bit broken. XD

I think it would be much less broken then the healing being what it is…

That is really unfortunate, damage seems way too.

The damage is frankly not an option. The spell is pretty much just for healing I guess. (The aoe damage is probably fine though, guess you just can't use the spell for single target damage)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Heal/Harm were never going to be good at both healing and damage as long as they remained symmetrical. Any number that is a meaningful amount of damage would be an excessive amount of healing, and any balanced amount of healing is going to be an insufficient amount of damage.


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citricking wrote:
Edge93 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

The damage on heal/harm is 1d8 per spell level, seemingly regardless of how many actions you use.

Drat. I suppose that was inevitable though, having the damage be as strong as the healing on the 2 action version (1d8+8 per spell level if I heard right?) might be a bit broken. XD

I think it would be much less broken then the healing being what it is…

That is really unfortunate, damage seems way too.

The damage is frankly not an option. The spell is pretty much just for healing I guess. (The aoe damage is probably fine though, guess you just can't use the spell for single target damage)

The damage doesn't seem too bad for a single-action spell, but compared to other options, the two-action mode of the spell certainly feels lackluster when used offensively.

Clerics do get a feat that might help a bit

Spoiler:
Available at first level, there's a pair feats which increases the dice of heal or harm to d10s.


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MaxAstro wrote:
Heal/Harm were never going to be good at both healing and damage as long as they remained symmetrical. Any number that is a meaningful amount of damage would be an excessive amount of healing, and any balanced amount of healing is going to be an insufficient amount of damage.

I get what you're saying, and that's how healing has usually been balanced in prior editions of D&D. However, in the case of of Heal/Harm in PF2, the asymmetry actually favours the healing over the damage. Two actions to heal is 1d8+8 per spell level, whereas 2 action to do damage is only 1d8 per spell level (if I've understood correctly).

So in this case, it actually works exactly opposite to what you said. If we followed your formulation, 2 actions to do damage would be "insufficient" even at 1d8+8 per spell level, and yet the spell does EVEN LESS damage than this "insufficient" amount (only 1d8 per spell level).

It seems like the relative values of healing vs damage are different in PF2 than they were in prior editions of D&D. Or maybe 2 actions to heal is just a huge outlier.


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Eoni wrote:
Do Mutagens still have an onset time?

Spoiler:
No, thankfully.

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Heal got changed because during the playtest people were often using Heal 1 action 3 times in a row, so to make people conserve resources they made Heal 2 actions better.

Harm don't have this problem because it's affect by MAP.


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Some Kind of Chymist wrote:


8. Can Monks be non-lawful now?

This was the case since the very start of the playtest, and the most well accepted change, I doubt they'd revert it. So yes, they can be non-lawful


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nightpanda2810 wrote:

How many player options are in the AP and standalone adventure?

How many unique monsters are in each?

I don't have Fall of Plaguestone; I'm waiting to pick up the PDF.

For the first AP, player options are in the forthcoming player guide.
Spoiler:

- Unique? 3. Unique is a rarity trait, and they're just named NPCs, and there's only one of each in the world, so they end up being Unique.
- Not in the Bestiary? There are 9 with full statblocks comparable to the Bestiary in the back in the Adventurer's Toolbox section. Not sure how they each slot into the adventure.

- And 2 new magic items


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What are the bracers if armor like? Can they ge runes?

And Cloudstep(cloudjump) sounds cool, what does it do (vague discription is enough :P)

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