we are starting, level 1 and up, giant slayer game.
i am aiming for a dwarf, and want to have intresting melee.
Giants offer some heavy risk, reach, rock throwing, some scouting needed, big meat-piece of HP pool.
and attack at really long range .
here are the options i though of:
1. Warpriest. Arsenal .
low skill points is the bad part. no stealth abilites.
VS reach ? use the lvl 2 spell to move without AOO.
buff ASAP and attack hard.
hammer using (long hammer and others)
blessings: good and healing take care of the self heals and some summons.
2. Ranger : Archery.
who cares of reach, cover or concelments.
learn to hate orcs > giants and you are golden.
load of skills. low on spells and a little boring (shoot...shoot...shoot...)
3. A melee Druid:
balance of skills and full caster.
i got a eral dillema between Goliath and Saurian .
Goliath = both disguise as a giant for scouting and using all the LArge weapons found. the fact you stay humanoid means your armor will be decent (full plate dragon hide), and your weapon is solid.
1 level into Ranger with the favorite enemy feat oofer a full favorite enemy progression and usag of all the weapons.
the downsides:
1. no elemental form
2. less animal forms .
Saurian :
you shift into dino's . low on Armor, but load of option.
summon as a standard action is HUGE - adding meatshileds on the board.
why elemental is important?
earth glide = getting closer or afar without AOO, and super scout abilites.
also decent as a hammer wileder earth elemental.
Obviously the druids are the closest to what you want in that list. Probably the goliath. Once you get the caustic blood spell, dare the enemies to take AoOs on you. Learn the Terran language and you can summon earth elementals if you need to scout that way.
Giants tend not to have great attack bonuses with those thrown rocks. With a half-decent AC you can handle that. Their full attacks in melee are more problematic. You might try debuffing them to increase your survivability there.
Human Barbarian w/ Dual Talent (Str/Dex, or Str/Con) and Titan Mauler Archetype (start with PA feat, so you instantly gain a+3 dmg bonus and a -1 hit penalty). As a weapon use the Scythe and later in the game buy a one size larger One (the archetype allows you to ignore penalties and use 1.5x force as usual). Scythe is useful because it has a X4 crit, so when you hit, you hit hard. Plus the archetype gives you various bonuses versus creatures larger than you, and complete it by using the suggested rage powers of the archetype and other feats like focalized weapon, glory or death, come and get me rage power (level 12). Expecially at high levels you're gonna 1-hit most of your enemies. With a 20 pts buy I would do
Str 16 (+2 =18) - Dex 12 - Con 16 (+2 = 18) - Int 10 - Wis 12 - Cha 7
You don't need to dodge hits, expecially when using the come and get me feat, but you need a large amount of HP instead. As soon as you can buy a belt of physical might (Str and Con) and boost them all the way up. Also remember to get as soon as you can the focalized crit feat or make it Sharp and you're done. If you make everything right you should get a 3D6 + 40/50+ damage with each Attack at level 20 (at that lvl your crit should be x5, so you should make around 15D6 +250 (or more) damage with each attack (at lvl 17 the archetype lets you use the spell enlarge person as you enter rage and the weapon you're carrying will enlarge even more, giving you a 6m range and a 3D6 total damage per Attack), and using the come and get me feat you'll attack twice if the enemy would attack you). Sorry if I forgot anything, but it seems fine this way to me. Feel free to tweak this build to your preference! Let me know if I was able to help you! Good luck! :)
KidBash95 wrote: Human Barbarian w/ Dual Talent (Str/Dex, or Str/Con) and Titan Mauler Archetype (start with PA feat, so you instantly gain a+3 dmg bonus and a -1 hit penalty). As a weapon use the Scythe and later in the game buy a one size larger One (the archetype allows you to ignore penalties and use 1.5x force as usual). Scythe is useful because it has a X4 crit, so when you hit, you hit hard. Plus the archetype gives you various bonuses versus creatures larger than you, and complete it by using the suggested rage powers of the archetype and other feats like focalized weapon, glory or death, come and get me rage power (level 12). Expecially at high levels you're gonna 1-hit most of your enemies. With a 20 pts buy I would do
Str 16 (+2 =18) - Dex 12 - Con 16 (+2 = 18) - Int 10 - Wis 12 - Cha 7
You don't need to dodge hits, expecially when using the come and get me feat, but you need a large amount of HP instead. As soon as you can buy a belt of physical might (Str and Con) and boost them all the way up. Also remember to get as soon as you can the focalized crit feat or make it Sharp and you're done. If you make everything right you should get a 3D6 + 40/50+ damage with each Attack at level 20 (at that lvl your crit should be x5, so you should make around 15D6 +250 (or more) damage with each attack (at lvl 17 the archetype lets you use the spell enlarge person as you enter rage and the weapon you're carrying will enlarge even more, giving you a 6m range and a 3D6 total damage per Attack), and using the come and get me feat you'll attack twice if the enemy would attack you). Sorry if I forgot anything, but it seems fine this way to me. Feel free to tweak this build to your preference! Let me know if I was able to help you! Good luck! :)
first of all, thank you.
a few Q's:
unlike the DR focus barbarian, you lack AC or DR, so how do you handle the full attack the foes give back ? (for example, if its not dead or more than 1 is present..)
also VS flyers / far away foes, what tools you have to deal with them ?
btw - barbarian 8 / druid 4 with shaping focus isnt half bad.
lvl 8 wild shape into elemental while mainly a barbarian form.
in a focused game (orcs, giants) aint a ranger > barbarian ?
also, for a druid - goliath a 1 level dip is almost needed.
either "Titan Fighter" or "ranger" .
Ranger with 1 feat gives :
1. trapfighting
2. several skills
3. all weapons
4. full favite enemy progresion (+2 orcs, +4 giants at lvl 5..)
a fighter level give:
1. all weapons
2. heavy armor
3. tower shiled (made of wood, nice for a druid at times) .
4. ability to use (with -4) a giant weapon ... so a base great sword = 3d6, then the druid grows to Large, weapon to huge >>> 3d8 base damage.
not bad really as a 1 lvl dip . (after lvl 4, when you can wild shape ofc).
KidBash95 wrote: Human Barbarian w/ Dual Talent (Str/Dex, or Str/Con) and Titan Mauler Archetype (start with PA feat, so you instantly gain a+3 dmg bonus and a -1 hit penalty). As a weapon use the Scythe and later in the game buy a one size larger One (the archetype allows you to ignore penalties and use 1.5x force as usual). Scythe is useful because it has a X4 crit, so when you hit, you hit hard. Plus the archetype gives you various bonuses versus creatures larger than you, and complete it by using the suggested rage powers of the archetype and other feats like focalized weapon, glory or death, come and get me rage power (level 12). Expecially at high levels you're gonna 1-hit most of your enemies. With a 20 pts buy I would do
Str 16 (+2 =18) - Dex 12 - Con 16 (+2 = 18) - Int 10 - Wis 12 - Cha 7
You don't need to dodge hits, expecially when using the come and get me feat, but you need a large amount of HP instead. As soon as you can buy a belt of physical might (Str and Con) and boost them all the way up. Also remember to get as soon as you can the focalized crit feat or make it Sharp and you're done. If you make everything right you should get a 3D6 + 40/50+ damage with each Attack at level 20 (at that lvl your crit should be x5, so you should make around 15D6 +250 (or more) damage with each attack (at lvl 17 the archetype lets you use the spell enlarge person as you enter rage and the weapon you're carrying will enlarge even more, giving you a 6m range and a 3D6 total damage per Attack), and using the come and get me feat you'll attack twice if the enemy would attack you). Sorry if I forgot anything, but it seems fine this way to me. Feel free to tweak this build to your preference! Let me know if I was able to help you! Good luck! :)
another Q:
whats the benefit of Titan mauler other than a reach weapon + shield to a Invulnerable Rager X + 1 Titan fighter ?
the later can have DR of 1/2 lvl AND use a large size giant weapon with ease AND use a mithral full plate .
the titan mauler only add redice reach, which is nice - but not that amazing and the abiity to use 2 hander at 1 hand.
lastly, a 1 lvl oracle (lame) at lvl 9 seem like a must. immune to fatigue allow to use Furious Finish for massive damage with a single attack EVERY round.
666bender wrote: also, for a druid - goliath a 1 level dip is almost needed.
either "Titan Fighter" or "ranger" .
Ranger with 1 feat gives :
1. trapfighting
2. several skills
3. all weapons
4. full favite enemy progresion (+2 orcs, +4 giants at lvl 5..)
a fighter level give:
1. all weapons
2. heavy armor
3. tower shiled (made of wood, nice for a druid at times) .
4. ability to use (with -4) a giant weapon ... so a base great sword = 3d6, then the druid grows to Large, weapon to huge >>> 3d8 base damage.
not bad really as a 1 lvl dip . (after lvl 4, when you can wild shape ofc).
I understood what you meant. Anyways for ranged attacks I would suggest you a composite longbowbow (adding as much strenght as you have, to deal massive damage). And for the DR and AC lack you need very high HP, combined with a healer PC to keep you alive. For multiple enemies you can use feats such as cleave and great cleave that grant you additional attacks as long as your enemies remain in your reach.
If you multiclass you're probably gonna lose all your greater rage, tireless rage and mighty rage class abilities, plus all the bonuses that the archetype gives you. I'll suggest you to remain a pure barbarian. Remember that this class throws the highest HD possible, the D12, which makes him a tanking Beast, and you shouldn't worry to resist over one round, otherwise this build would be useless. The purpose of this pure barbarian build is to destroy everything and everyone in 1 round. Try to create a sheet and make a full progression till level 20. Of course you're gonna need a healer in your party, but if that's the case, then you probably have then strongest character in your whole party in terms of DPS, both from close and far range (the range of a composite longbow Is 33 meters).
Let me make you an example. A lvl 2 barbarian has 2 BAB, 4 on Str (multiplier), 28 HP (average 6,5 throws that becomes a 6, plus the first one that is fulled by default) 15 AC (+4 armor and +1 Dex), PA (-1/+3), and a scythe. When he enters rage he grows Str to 6 and Con to 6, giving him 32 HP (my level 5 parapsychic has 21 HP, just to let you know) and a -1 on AC, but we don't give a damn! :)
So with a Scythe an average attack would be a +5 (with -1 PA) on your hit throw (+7 on rage) with an average damage of 2d4 (average 5) +9 damage (+12 while raging). With a crit it becomes 8d4 (average 20) +36 (+48 while raging) damage, for a total of 68 damage with only one attack. I haven't added the archetype bonuses nor I have used a larger scythe. This means that if you crit and confirm It, at level 2 you could almost one shot a Bullette (one of the deadliest CR7 monsters that you can meet, it is really OP, does a lot of damage, has high AC and has a fair amount of HP, 84 to be exact).
Let me know if you need more help:)
666bender wrote: KidBash95 wrote: Human Barbarian w/ Dual Talent (Str/Dex, or Str/Con) and Titan Mauler Archetype (start with PA feat, so you instantly gain a+3 dmg bonus and a -1 hit penalty). As a weapon use the Scythe and later in the game buy a one size larger One (the archetype allows you to ignore penalties and use 1.5x force as usual). Scythe is useful because it has a X4 crit, so when you hit, you hit hard. Plus the archetype gives you various bonuses versus creatures larger than you, and complete it by using the suggested rage powers of the archetype and other feats like focalized weapon, glory or death, come and get me rage power (level 12). Expecially at high levels you're gonna 1-hit most of your enemies. With a 20 pts buy I would do
Str 16 (+2 =18) - Dex 12 - Con 16 (+2 = 18) - Int 10 - Wis 12 - Cha 7
You don't need to dodge hits, expecially when using the come and get me feat, but you need a large amount of HP instead. As soon as you can buy a belt of physical might (Str and Con) and boost them all the way up. Also remember to get as soon as you can the focalized crit feat or make it Sharp and you're done. If you make everything right you should get a 3D6 + 40/50+ damage with each Attack at level 20 (at that lvl your crit should be x5, so you should make around 15D6 +250 (or more) damage with each attack (at lvl 17 the archetype lets you use the spell enlarge person as you enter rage and the weapon you're carrying will enlarge even more, giving you a 6m range and a 3D6 total damage per Attack), and using the come and get me feat you'll attack twice if the enemy would attack you). Sorry if I forgot anything, but it seems fine this way to me. Feel free to tweak this build to your preference! Let me know if I was able to help you! Good luck! :)
another Q:
whats the benefit of Titan mauler other than a reach weapon + shield to a Invulnerable Rager X + 1 Titan fighter ?
the later can have DR of 1/2 lvl AND use a large size giant weapon with ease AND use a mithral full plate .
the titan... As I said (you're probably reading it right now), if you multiclass you lose a lot of bonuses both from rage, rage powers and archetype bonuses, a that's why I would stick to a pure barbarian. And as I repeat, you won't need AC. It would be hard for the enemy to survive one round from you, even at low levels, but expecially at higher ones:)
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In the first couple of books, lots of builds can work, but once giants start becoming really common, you are going to want to really stack up that armor class. While not getting hit at all is important, what you will really be afraid of are critical hits. Few characters will be able to survive a giant's scythe crit.
My ideal melee for this would probably be a dex based magus. You will be able to use spells like bladed dash to get in position and avoid the giant's attacks of opportunity. And you'll have your AC and defensive spells to avoid being hit.
If you want to go pure martial, a halfling mouser swashbuckler would do fairly well.
I'd just go simple. Theres a dwarf. Theres a giant killer option for dwarf. Theres a fighting style based on hating thing for dwarves.
These are all good options to look into.
I dont know why you'd choose human when a dwarf runs just as fast in plate and has an extra 4 ac and more hp.
Personally I'm currently playing a dwarven hunter with an ankylosaur pet. It's for a different ap but the idea is the same. High ac and companion with some stun moves makes for a hell of a fight. With hunter getting ranger spells at a lower level than druids do, spells like compel hostility cast through on to your AC 35 pet would be pretty great for the whole party.
Another option is a kineticist, with the Kinetic Blade infusion, and Kinetic Whip later. This is more of a switch-hitter character.
For countering giant critical hits, there's the Roll with It campaign trait (not to be confused with the goblin feat of the same name).
666bender wrote: we are starting, level 1 and up, giant slayer game.
i am aiming for a dwarf, and want to have intresting melee.
Giants offer some heavy risk, reach, rock throwing, some scouting needed, big meat-piece of HP pool.
and attack at really long range .
here are the options i though of:
1. Warpriest. Arsenal .
low skill points is the bad part. no stealth abilites.
VS reach ? use the lvl 2 spell to move without AOO.
buff ASAP and attack hard.
hammer using (long hammer and others)
blessings: good and healing take care of the self heals and some summons.
2. Ranger : Archery.
who cares of reach, cover or concelments.
learn to hate orcs > giants and you are golden.
load of skills. low on spells and a little boring (shoot...shoot...shoot...)
3. A melee Druid:
balance of skills and full caster.
i got a eral dillema between Goliath and Saurian .
Goliath = both disguise as a giant for scouting and using all the LArge weapons found. the fact you stay humanoid means your armor will be decent (full plate dragon hide), and your weapon is solid.
1 level into Ranger with the favorite enemy feat oofer a full favorite enemy progression and usag of all the weapons.
the downsides:
1. no elemental form
2. less animal forms .
Saurian :
you shift into dino's . low on Armor, but load of option.
summon as a standard action is HUGE - adding meatshileds on the board.
why elemental is important?
earth glide = getting closer or afar without AOO, and super scout abilites.
also decent as a hammer wileder earth elemental.
So, I find myself asking, what is the difference between Giant Slaying and just being good at melee? I guess one thing is that you don't want a Tripping or Bull Rush build since those have size limits, that is unless you are going with your Druidzilla idea.
I saw you mention Warpriest in addition to your Druidzilla. I recommend you combine them. As soon as you get Wild Shape, take Shaping Focus so that your nonDruid levels count as Druid levels. Then start taking levels in Warpriest and start taking weapon focus for your favorite natural attacks so that you will start doing Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular natural attack damage, and then enjoy the damage boost when you grow into a size large Megaraptor or size Huge Allosaurus! Also, maybe learn or get a Wand of Strong Jaw so that you can get 2 more size bumps to your many, many natural Attacks. My personal favorite monster is the Giant Octopus 8 tentacles all with Grab and Constrict plus a Bite for 17 Attacks/round!
Get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask. Put it on after you Wild Shape, and now you have a Gore Attack on top of whatever else you have. Take a level in White Haired Witch and get a Hair Attack, too! Since White Hair is a supernatural ability, and there are no race restrictions on becoming a WHW, should be able to use your Hair Attack regardless of your form.
I'm not as big a fan of Arsenal Champion when combining it with Wild Shape. I think the damage progression for increased base damage + the Size increase with Wildshape comes out better than the attack and damage bonuses from Arsenal Champion, but do your own number Crunching, I always might be wrong.
I was just woke to the Orc Hornbow that does 2d6. If you take even 1 level in Ranger, you can use a Wand of Gravity Bow and your Damage goes up to 3d6. If you get Enlarge Person, you can carry around Size Large Arrows and shoot them from your Enlarged Gravity Bow and do 4d6. I like getting Enlarge Person through levels in Alchemist because exploding arrows are cool.
PCScipio wrote: Another option is a kineticist, with the Kinetic Blade infusion, and Kinetic Whip later. This is more of a switch-hitter character.
For countering giant critical hits, there's the Roll with It campaign trait (not to be confused with the goblin feat of the same name).
I was going to build a kinetic knight, dwarf, for this, which would be a pure melee option. Between Kinetic Form, Whip, and Lunge I should be able to melee giants without provoking and the tankiest chassis will be aether and earth in some order, which lacks a touch attack but Giants tend to have fairly low ACs anyway.
@OP: Greetings, and thanks for posting your request here. I've played and GMed many Pathfinder Against Giants scenarios. Giants are difficult, but not impossible, to deal with. Rather than comment on each of your possible approaches I'll offer some general advice.
* A single critical hit in melee from a giant can sometimes slay a PC. Avoid taking critical hits. There are many methods. The magic item Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier is one way.
* Giants typically have a Full Attack that does 2x more than their Standard Attack. Avoid receiving a full attack from a giant whenever possible.
* Giants typically have 10' or 15' reach. Fortunately for you, Paizo never (and GMs rarely) have their giants wield a reach weapon. Such would be the obvious optimal giant armament but it's just not done. So you only have to contend with 10' or 15' reach.
* PC reach builds can easily get 20' or even 25' reach, allowing you to play the reach game vs. giants, rather than the obverse. Thus, reach tactics work great against giants. A melee PC using reach tactics should rarely or never receive a Full Attack from a giant. Something to think about.
* Battlefield control is an effective way to give your party an edge against giants.
Good luck!
I'm some way into book two. That experience plus some knowledge about giants tells me that AC is a big deal when fighting giants, as Melkiador said. IME, a giant's AC isn't great but they have oodles of HP and generally have no trouble hitting/dealing damage. My advice would be to build some sort of Dwarf with Toughness, FCB into HP, and a serious AC investment without hurting damage output too much. A way to negate AoO's would be good too, making reach weapons nice. At least for as far as I've been and the way my GM runs things, stealth would have been a waste of skill points (and something another PC could handle).
A 30 second rough draft could be something like this:
Dwarven Fighter 1
Str: 16 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 8
Traits - Glory of Old, Reactionary
Feats - Toughness, Combat Reflexes
Using a Dwarven Longhammer and put the heaviest armor you can find on.
________
I'll make a special echo of Magda Luckbender's call for CC effects. Keeping giants from overwhelming you is a big freaking deal.
Oh, there's also a "spear fighter" archetype in the latest player companion that I think would be interesting to take into Giantslayer- you trade heavy armor and tower shields for the dodge feat, and you trade armor training for a (frankly really good) version of the Swashbuckler's Parry & Riposte (it costs an AoO, and it gives you a cumulative penalty to all attacks until the end of your next turn, including further parries, the penalty is -4 intially, dropping to -3 at 7th level, -2 at 11th, and -1 at 15th- so by the end of the campaign you can probably parry a full attack from a giant away.)
I figure you could easily build a dex based spear fighter using a branch spear with 13 Str for power-attack and the trained grace advanced weapon training for damage. I figure since dodge is free, and you have feats coming out of your ears you could build for the entire greater spring attack chain. If you get the 13 Str for power attack you can get the "smash from the air" feat chain and also parry boulders.
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Magda Luckbender wrote: * Battlefield control is an effective way to give your party an edge against giants. Sleet Storm is particularly effective against giants, who are not known for their acrobatic ability.
You can trip giants using Earth Child Topple, the feat also adds Wis to the attempt.
Titans's Tangle lets you trip creatures 2 size larger (3 with G. W. Training).
You know if you really want to trip them.
I'll point out that I've never found AC and HP to be an effective way to counter giants. They are huge piles of AC and HP. Don't fight them on their own terms.
Giants are usually going to hit you, pretty much no matter how high is your AC. The trick is to always assume they will hit every time and minimize their hit ATTEMPTS.
For example, given a choice of +5 to AC or halving incoming attacks, choose the latter. This is where battlefield control is key. This should probably be a combination of magic and trips. E.g. Cast a spell that obscures vision above 6' height: PCs can see fine, but tall things will have to duck down (squeeze!) to see. E.g. Tripping at 20' reach is great, but giants are notoriously hard to trip, so make sure your numbers work.
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Compared to same CR bestiary monsters I don't think giants really distinguish themselves in AC or accuracy. Sure a storm giant has 28 AC, but most other CR13 enemies have about the same (a Glabrezu demon, an Iron Golem, and a Ghaele Azata all have the same 28, an Ice Devil has 32).
Where Giants distinguish themselves from other same CR enemies is that instead of special defenses like DR, and they aren't packed to the gills with SLAs, but they have huge HP pools and their hits do a lot of damage.
I think you can keep ahead of the giants you're fighting in both AC (I mean Dwarves come loaded with a +4 AC bonus vs. Giants) and accuracy, it's just hard to keep pace with damage and HP.
As far as a Druid goes, I played one in my adventure through Giantslayer. I used a half-orc Nature Fang Druid of Gorum, variant multiclass Cleric (rage domain). I had very little trouble. Our group had access to Stone Dodger (teamwork feat). We kept ourselves to ranged attacks as much as possible, but my character was built for melee. I'd use spells until it became necessary to engage in melee combat, and then I'd charge in with Vital Strike (ranger combat style + gorum fighting tech). Between Opportunist (talent) and Pair Opportunist (teamwork), I could really deal damage on a charge.
REALLY fun time.
I should point out gnomes come out with small and ac vs giants plus keep that con bonus. They dont exactly suffer in a campaign like this either. I'd invest in escape artist or something though...
Magda Luckbender wrote: I'll point out that I've never found AC and HP to be an effective way to counter giants. They are huge piles of AC and HP. Don't fight them on their own terms.
Giants are usually going to hit you, pretty much no matter how high is your AC. The trick is to always assume they will hit every time and minimize their hit ATTEMPTS.
For example, given a choice of +5 to AC or halving incoming attacks, choose the latter. This is where battlefield control is key. This should probably be a combination of magic and trips. E.g. Cast a spell that obscures vision above 6' height: PCs can see fine, but tall things will have to duck down (squeeze!) to see. E.g. Tripping at 20' reach is great, but giants are notoriously hard to trip, so make sure your numbers work.
I like defense in layers. If you took Scent and Blindfighting, your character would be effective even while Blinded. You could carry some smokesticks or--my favorite--and Eversmoking Bottle. Still another way would be to take 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dance Archetype, and give smokevision to the whole party. That way, unless your giant has similar countermeasures, your whole party will enjoy a 50% Miss Chance, and the Giant gets no Dex Bonus to AC. If you do the Bard thing, your party Rogue locks in his Sneak Attack Daamge.
I was just clued in to the Stalwart Feat. You need Diehard and Endurance, and it lets you turn your Combat Expertise AC bonus into DR/-
You can find some way to get your Tumor Familiar to cast Shield Other, or cast Infernal Healing on your Protector Familiar. Half the Damage will be taken by your Familiar instead, and your familiar will be protected by Fast Healing.
I'm envisioning a Half Orc Archer using an Orc Hornbow, taking Endurance as an Alternate Racial Trait, and taking Scent and Blindfighting as feats. A level in Ranger will let the archer use a Wand of Gravity Bow or a Wand of Lead Blades, making the Hornbow do 3d6 base Damage/hit, and his Lucerne Hammer (Reach and Brace!) do 3d6, too.
Then layer on the defense like I outlined above. I'm envisioning an Grenadier Alchemist because Exploding Arrows are cool. Tumor Famliars are not allowed to have the Protector Archetype anymore, so you still have to figure out how to use Shield Other as an Alchemist. You can get Oil of Shield Other and just have the Familiar use it on you, but that seems expensive.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Tumor Famliars are not allowed to have the Protector Archetype anymore, so you still have to figure out how to use Shield Other as an Alchemist. Best way that I've found is to get a cleric (or someone with the cleric spelllist) to cast Imbue with Spell Ability on you. It really comes online at level 7, but they have to effectively sacrifice a 4th level spell slot every day for you. You do get to cast two additional 1st level spellsin addition, so spell level wise... it sort of balances out.
Oh, on a side note... One wonders how having scent and fighting in smoke will actually work in reality. Could you REALLY smell anything over that?
666bender wrote: we are starting, level 1 and up, giant slayer game.
i am aiming for a dwarf, and want to have intresting melee.
Okay, I've actually run Giantslayer all the way through. I can tell you what's needed, without spoilers.
you want the truth? None of your choices.
Easiest way to get in close to a creature with reach is to use Acrobatics. Best way to do that in heavy armor is spend on mithril, and take a straight up Fighter class, as it reduces ACP. To get the skill as class with a bonus on top of that, check the player's guide for giantslayer.
Oh, and you are going to want to spend your feats on a 2 handed warhammer. Trust me. But, the first book is evil, so take either Toughness or Tribal Scars (slothjaw) as your initial feat.
Me, I wouldn't take a dwarf, as it's still kinda slow. I'd go for something that grants a strength bonus instead. But it's up to you.
Magda Luckbender wrote:
Giants are usually going to hit you, pretty much no matter how high is your AC. The trick is to always assume they will hit every time and minimize their hit ATTEMPTS.
Actually no. When I ran it, I noted that players who concentrated on spending gold to up their AC usually got away with murder. But then, we did have a bard trying to screw up giants occasionally, and an archer going to town at the same time as the party Fighter going in. Meanwhile the wizard concentrated on reflex and will save spells.
To be frank, all you really need in that campaign is holy and bane (giant) on your weapons. Lots of HP damage, as when the giants DID finally manage to hit it was nasty, so having a party cleric is very nice.
I forgot to add that the players, specifically the spellcasters, took craft wondrous item and craft magic arms and armor. This halves the cost of magic item enchantments. There are ways to make the crafting faster. The real problem the spellcasters will face is selling off all the loot you guys find at a city big enough to allow you to buy decent gear like mithril full plate. We did solve this.
Honestly, as the 4th book hit, the guys started stomping giants left and right. They had the right weapon enchantments and knew giants weaknesses. Worse, the wizard could change the energy type of his spells to nail both frost and fire giants no matter the spell.
thanks a lot on the advice.
the melee is set (fighter). 2 hander a great sword.
i got now a Q on the cleric.
i think herald caller is amazing, with lvl 1feat to regain the medium armor back.
the idea is to have a cleric that can fight well , and summon even better.
is this build a decent one? (we start at level 1, but here is the rest)
domain : (will effect the god of choice..)
Luck VS Travel VS something debuffing like madness.
Dwarf, cleric, level 1.
str 15
dex 10
con 16
int 10
wis 17
cha 7
feats :
1. med. armor.
3. power attack
4. (free) augument summon
5. sacred summon
7. expended summon
8. (free) supeior summon
9. Lunge or craft items or heavy armor.
Choose Tiefing as your race, select the "Use Large Weapons" Tiefling ability, so you start game play with a 3d6+STR (LARGE) Scythe.
Go Titan Mauler to get a 4d6+STR (HUGE) Scythe. That's 16d6+STR on a crit.
all the other advice is very good, but with that racial adjustment your damage is ridiculous.
EDIT: oops, you'd start with 2d6+str for large Scythe.
Then you'd get 3d6+str for a huge Scythe, total 12d6+str on a crit.
I am Nemesis wrote: Choose Tiefing as your race, select the "Use Large Weapons" Tiefling ability, so you start game play with a 3d6+STR (LARGE) Scythe.
Go Titan Mauler to get a 4d6+STR (HUGE) Scythe. That's 16d6+STR on a crit.
all the other advice is very good, but with that racial adjustment your damage is ridiculous.
EDIT: oops, you'd start with 2d6+str for large Scythe.
Then you'd get 3d6+str for a huge Scythe, total 12d6+str on a crit.
under the race i see no option to allow a larger weapon usage...
666bender wrote: I am Nemesis wrote: Choose Tiefing as your race, select the "Use Large Weapons" Tiefling ability, so you start game play with a 3d6+STR (LARGE) Scythe.
Go Titan Mauler to get a 4d6+STR (HUGE) Scythe. That's 16d6+STR on a crit.
all the other advice is very good, but with that racial adjustment your damage is ridiculous.
EDIT: oops, you'd start with 2d6+str for large Scythe.
Then you'd get 3d6+str for a huge Scythe, total 12d6+str on a crit.
under the race i see no option to allow a larger weapon usage...
option, along with many others is in the Pathfinder book "Blood of Fiends". i access it in "Hero Labs" Computer Program
Titan mauler barbarian 3, two handed fighter 3, Living Monolith 10
Living monolith gives you swift action enlarge person, which becomes righteous might at charater level 11. Combined with rage you add 10 to your str.
Use an oversized Butchers axe, add impact and furious. Take vital strike and improved vital strike.
Smack opponents for 24d6+(2x str mod)+3
Averages 110-120 per hit depending on str.
You could also take the divine fighting style feats for gorum (I think? Greatsword) and cleave with vital strike, but lowering damage to 18d6+stuff
666bender wrote: thanks a lot on the advice.
the melee is set (fighter). 2 hander a great sword.
i got now a Q on the cleric.
i think herald caller is amazing, with lvl 1feat to regain the medium armor back.
the idea is to have a cleric that can fight well , and summon even better.
is this build a decent one? (we start at level 1, but here is the rest)
domain : (will effect the god of choice..)
Luck VS Travel VS something debuffing like madness.
Dwarf, cleric, level 1.
str 15
dex 10
con 16
int 10
wis 17
cha 7
feats :
1. med. armor.
3. power attack
4. (free) augument summon
5. sacred summon
7. expended summon
8. (free) supeior summon
9. Lunge or craft items or heavy armor.
If you are playing a Dwarf, you should really look at those cool Dwarven Weapons like the Dwarven War Axe of the Dwarven Long Axe in lieu of Greatsword.
If you want to play a Cleric, you shouldn't dump Charisma. Channel Energy works off of Charisma.
If you want to play a Cleric that wears Heavy Armor, maybe you should consider Paladin. Paladin's get one of my favorite spells: Swift Girding. Swift Girding lets you don your armor as a Standard Action instead of the many minutes it usually takes. This seems like a good remedy for sleeping in armor. Paladins also work off of Charisma.
If you really want to use a Greatsword, some Feats you should consider:
Vital Strike feats double and triple your Damage Dice.
Great Cleave
Furious Focus, which lets you do without the Attack Penalty from Power Attack on your first Attack of the Round.
An Attack of Opportunity Feat. I like Broken Wing Gambit. There is a Paladin Archetype, Holy Tactician, I think, that gives you a bonus Teamwork Feat and the Tactician Class Ability that lets you gift that Feat to the whole party, so whenever any of you get Attacked, all of you get Attacks of Opportunity!
There are some Dwarf Giant Killing Feats like Orc Hewer and stuff you should look at.
666bender wrote: thanks a lot on the advice.
the melee is set (fighter). 2 hander a great sword.
Nope! Sigh. Okay, there are SEVERAL fancy pants special magic warhammers in Giantslayer. Grab weapon focus on a 2 handed warhammer, okay?
I assume you mean focusing on warhammers used two-handed?
I don't understand why people are saying to go for a DR focused build. Giants deal a ton of damage with their attacks; they'll blow through most any DR without really trying. DR is way better for surviving large numbers of low damage attacks than it is for surviving fewer, but more damaging attacks.
Against giants, you'd probably want to focus on pumping your AC up to the stratosphere. As a melee class who can do that the best, I'd suggest either an Enlightened Paladin or a Kensai (Bladebound) Magus, both DEX based. Enlightened Paladin is tankier (outside of AC) and has by far better sustain, but Kensai Magus has spellcasting utility, so it depends on what your team needs.
Kaouse wrote: I don't understand why people are saying to go for a DR focused build. Giants deal a ton of damage with their attacks; they'll blow through most any DR without really trying. DR is way better for surviving large numbers of low damage attacks than it is for surviving fewer, but more damaging attacks.
Against giants, you'd probably want to focus on pumping your AC up to the stratosphere. As a melee class who can do that the best, I'd suggest either an Enlightened Paladin or a Kensai (Bladebound) Magus, both DEX based. Enlightened Paladin is tankier (outside of AC) and has by far better sustain, but Kensai Magus has spellcasting utility, so it depends on what your team needs.
That's a good point. Most Giants probably do have a relatively small number of attacks that each do a great deal of damage, and that's not what DR is good for.
Personally, I was not focusing on DR. I was suggesting a character build have defense in layers: Miss Chance + high AC + DR + Fast Healing (sort of). DR is only 1 layer, not the focus.
And as you pointed out, it should be a low-priority layer for a character expecting to fight Giants.
Piccolo wrote: 666bender wrote: thanks a lot on the advice.
the melee is set (fighter). 2 hander a great sword.
Nope! Sigh. Okay, there are SEVERAL fancy pants special magic warhammers in Giantslayer. Grab weapon focus on a 2 handed warhammer, okay? Melkiador wrote: I assume you mean focusing on warhammers used two-handed? I took 2 handed warhammer to mean Earthbreaker. Earthbreakers are pretty much 2 handed Warhammers.
I assume "2 handed warhammer" means "a warhammer that can only be wielded in 2 hands, such as a Large sized one.
I mean the player's guide does lampshade that you will have access to oversized weapons (e.g. there's a campaign trait which halves the penalty for using such.)
I remember running Giantslayer, and there being a 2 handed weapon that did bludgeoning. It was an ARTIFACT weapon. It's the most ridiculously overpowered weapon I have ever seen in Pathfinder.
Before it, there's another magic weapon of the same type, but much weaker. Still useful for early and midgame though.
Sounds like an excellent case for retraining. Is there spare time for such things in Giantslayer?
avr wrote: Sounds like an excellent case for retraining. Is there spare time for such things in Giantslayer? Only time between books until book 3. Book 1 and 2 combined could take only a couple weeks in game time.
Also, it seems as if having access to some sort of means to get the whole party to sneak is REALLY needed once you hit the Frost giants. We used a combination of the teamwork feat that lets you take the highest Stealth result, and area effect invisibility spells. Planning on which place to hit was aided by the map folio for this section, but it didn't have much in the way of keyed labels for the GM to reference.
Also, there is virtually NO time between books 5 and 6.
Now, we did come up with a partial solution, a way to make more time to craft magic items. It was kinda complex though.
First, the party Wizard would teleport to a city large enough to sell to. He used Secret Chest and some holding items to carry all the loot. He'd buy whatever supplies we needed (happy sticks, potions etc). Then he'd either stay in the city to craft items in his rented inn room, or teleport back to the group. Either way, he used a portable hole to contain a lab where he would craft. To craft faster, he wore a ring of sustenance to reduce the need to sleep, then craft for 16 hours a day if he was doing nothing but, or 8 hours a day while the rest of the crew was taking watches and sleeping (grand total rest time per day 10 hours), meaning he could craft while adventuring.
To further speed this up, he took the archetype from Animal Archive, valet I think, to give him a second crafter. He also gave his familiar a ring of sustenance so it could craft as long as he could. I think we estimated it as 4000gp worth of base cost crafted per day.
You could go as a melee inquisitor. Hitting giants isn't typically all that difficult, so you could easily do without the full BAB. plus bane abilities and tons of skill ranks for stealth missions
It seems a decision has been made so I will leave this here for future people. Two of my top melee options are as follows.
On the option of an inquisitor.
Play either a small sacred huntmaster with the rage domain or a Sanctified Slayer with the animal domain (boon companion).
Flying mount, lance, spirited charge, bane. With reach and escape route you become untouchable, you do buckets of damage, you possess great utility spells.
Of the options, you put forth, I would go with a modified 3.
Shapeshifting Hunter is key. Play a ranger 1 druid x rage domain.
- Sorcerer spell progression
- Spontaneous summons
- Wild shape that uses armour
- Full Favored enemy (giants)
- Rage (destructive smite when you need the burst damage)
- Reach + size + combat ref will work even against most giants.
Personally, I find that long feat chains tend to create glass cannons and one trick ponies. No versatility, and dies easily.
I think it makes far more sense to first create your character with the rest of the party in mind, like what they need to function. Then, in the low levels, think defensively when you level up and want to take a feat etc. Patch up your weak spots so your PC can survive long enough to be able to eye that feat chain you so want. Ultimately, the best philosophy when creating and leveling up a PC is to simply respond to the needs of the campaign. Take note of the things that seem to be needed, and fill those needs.
oh hey, you could just ask the DM what the weapon type is, so that you could take that as your main weapon. I don't think he/she will mind, since you aren't getting the items any sooner, and you don't know where they are. All it does is make you more appropriate to the campaign.
I dont think asking to know about secret weapon drops in a campaign because someone ran it before and told you to build a character around it is "appropriate" for any campaign.
If you find one worth investing in, retrain or use new feats. Just like every game.
Cavall wrote: I dont think asking to know about secret weapon drops in a campaign because someone ran it before and told you to build a character around it is "appropriate" for any campaign.
If you find one worth investing in, retrain or use new feats. Just like every game.
It might be appropriate. We should give the players the benefit of the doubt. Lots of character builds depend upon particular magic items. And building a character in Pathfinder calls for a lot of work.
Meanwhile, vetting your character with your GM helps set expectations on both sides.
It's not necessarily bad to build a King Arthur character for a world because you know that Excalibur is waiting for you to prove to the Lady of the Lake you are worthy to take it. It's not necessarily appropriate for a GM to let a player build a character around such a sword knowing he intends to never allow the player to find it.
Scott, king Arthur didn't even know that sword was for him and it WAS a campaign built around him. You picked the actual worst example.
And no. Building something around a magic item you plan to get is one thing. Building it around a magic item you were told is in the game is a spoiler.
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