Best tank possible with an animal companion?


Advice


We have a little trouble in one of our current campaign: our tank died, with no chance of resurrection.

The campaign is actualy quite hard and we faced several deaths already, and the party severly optimized itself to not leave any blindspot, and yet, we struggle.
The tank was an invulnerable barbarian and yet got crushed in 2 rounds in the hand of a single opponent.

So, we need a new tank, and a realy good one, but the player is fed up with playing a normal frontline, and would like to play a character who has an animal companion to get to the frontline with him.
The DM allows almost all feats and archetypes except leadership and 3rd party ones, but want us only to play core classes.

Sooo... what is the best tank we can get with a core class that will have an animal companion?
He's starting level 6.


well, I would say summoner, because then you could make a tanky eidolon.

But all but the core classes are out, and said tank player doesn't want to be a front-liner?

Play a druid.

1) You can turn into a bear.
2) You can have a bear animal companion.
3) You can summon a ton of bears onto the field with summon nature's ally spells.

How's that?


Suppose they take a druid with the elemental ally archetype. Not an animal companion; 4 elemental eidolons, though they can only have one out at a time. Switch as necessary for the situation.

e.g. one as a quadruped mount to move the druid along fast, one biped for the best strength to attack with, one serpentine sneak with skilled (stealth) and another serpentine eidolon whose feats & their one evolution focus on defence in combat rather than stealth.


ohako wrote:

well, I would say summoner, because then you could make a tanky eidolon.

But all but the core classes are out, and said tank player doesn't want to be a front-liner?

He wants and need to be a frontliner tank. We can't keep going without one.

But he wants an animal companion, too, so I'm asking what is the best tank we can make with the core class, that will also have an animal companion.


If the request is for an animal companion specifically then perhaps this. An aasimar druid taking the celestial servant, sf (conjuration) and augment summoning feats, and perhaps the plains druid or an animal shaman archetype. Celestial servant gives the AnC a useful template, augment summoning and its prereq give summons to back it up, and the archetypes help the summons further.

They might want a AnC which gets advancement at 4th level rather than 7th - from what you say they'll likely get to summon a new AnC by 7th level.

How much detail do you want?


Invulnerable Rager with 3 feats (animal ally + boon companion).
Mounted Fury Barbarian, dwarf with super saves and CON .
Cavalier of the Dragon, aid another master .


also ,
Paladin ...
best saves, AC , self healing and mounted.


Well, I'm not fond of the idea to rely on summons for tanking, because we already landed in a lot of ambush situation where the frontliner gets attacked even before he can use any form of abilities

To give a clear exemple, what killed his barbarian is a Shambling Mound who caught him flatfooted, and landed his 2 slams and its constrict in the surprise round (total: 42 damage, and grappled)

So, seeing this situation, I know that any form of attempt to tank with summon will not be gladly welcomed.


BTW - i had a dwarf Cleric (domains animal + healing) what had super con and wisdom.
he had guided hand so he could hit stuff .
he had a full mount with him (Boar) with the feat to ride medium animals.
he used to buff himself + the mount, stand and cast and empower healing the mount while the mount bashed as well.

same build can happen on a gnome oracle (lunar) .

but really, the paladin is the storngest one in the game.


What's the party composition, and do you roll stats, or go with Point Buy?

And what about races?

***************

Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior Fighter 6

Feats:

P for progression feats
B for bonus feats

1 P Shield Focus
3 P Mobile Bulwark Style
4 B Mobile Fortress
5 P Mauler's Endurance (+2 HP/level to your familiar)
6 B Power Attack

*****

Class Features:

Familiar capable of Grasp/Carry (See Magic Item Slots for Animals), with Mauler familiar archetype
Share Training (Ex)
Steel Will +2 (Ex)
Mutagen (Su)
Weapon Training +1
2 bonus Combat Feats

*****

Tactic:

The whole idea is to avoid the enemies' attack rolls from the start, so AC isn't a big priority. If you're facing off against a single enemy, you could practically be naked.

Your familiar will provide you or your allies with total cover with the use of the Mobile Fortress feat. If you choose a tiny familiar, it can share your space and would count as adjacent for the purpose of granting Total Cover.

Since it can grant Total Cover as both a move and standard action, it could begin it's turn doing so, then ready an action to interrupt any attack if the opponent tries to move around.

The Mauler familiar archetype is mainly to grant it more HP, as you'd normally want it to remain tiny sized. The Compsognathus familiar is a good choice.

The player also has the choice of carrying a Tower Shield. If so, then I'd recommend the player to take the last of the tower shield feats (Mobile Stronghold) so that they can ignore one attack per round as an immediate action.

To build upon that idea, you can take the Vestigal Arm discovery at level 7 to wield a Tower Shield and two-handed weapon at the same time. This would allow you to use your move action/immediate action to gain Total Cover, while using your standard action to attack. Vital Strike would be useful then.

****

Shadow Lodge

Oh boy. I'll chime in later. Look at this profile for a taste of what's coming


Mad Dog Barbarian. He still gets to be a barbarian, and gets a companion that uses his full barbarian level, and can share his rage with the right rage powers.

Alternatively, a paladin’s Mount can be a pretty powerful companion, and with Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Mercies, etc, Paladins can be really tanky.


max damage with power attack and a grab landing is 47

also it's three separate attacks, so his DR should have made the max 38

a lvl 6 barb should have a good chunk more than this

plus in a surprise round? it can only use 1 slam...

a new kind of tank isn't going to help, you already had one of the best kinds and it sounds like it was taken out under suspicious circumstances


ohako wrote:

well, I would say summoner, because then you could make a tanky eidolon.

But all but the core classes are out, and said tank player doesn't want to be a front-liner?

Play a druid.

1) You can turn into a bear.
2) You can have a bear animal companion.
3) You can summon a ton of bears onto the field with summon nature's ally spells.

How's that?

I second the Druid plan. Look forward to turning into a giant octopus later in life (unsure if this was possible at level 6 or 8)

I haven't played a Druid past low PFS levels, but I like the class.

Alternatively I would suggest going Paladin, those swift Lay on Hands on yourself work wonders (esp if you have Fey Foundling as your lvl1 feat!)


I have a Brawler(Wildchild) 1/Hunter X that could fit this role.
It uses teamwork feats to really, really boost the animal companion, and stand next to it.

The reason for the Brawler are two-fold - It allows for low int while still taking Combat Expertise and it allows you to take an extra combat feat as a move action (3/day). There are a lot of (teamwork) combat feats that solve problems.

Now this build undergoes a big jump at level 7 because that's when the AC increases in size.

Racial Trait: Eye for Talent (instead of L1 bonus feat)

Feat(1): Combat Expertise
Feat(H2): Outflank (TW)
Feat(3): Precise Strike (TW)
Feat (H3): Pack Flanking (TW)
Feat(5): Improved Spell Sharing

And later take:
Planar Focus
Totem Beast
Escape Artist (TW)

What happens here is 3 things:

1. The Ape (My choice, the Big Cat is probably statistically better, but the ape gets reach, and later with Animal Growth a lot of reach) hits pretty hard with enhanced Str (From Eye for Talent) the teamwork feats (which make it always flank and do 1d6 precision damage) and 1d6 or 2d6 fire damage from Planar Focus.

2. It can also reach a pretty respectable AC while wearing armor, sharing barkskin, having natural AC. So it really tends to pull attention from enemies.

3. Meanwhile, the hunter chooses to fight defensively with combat expertise. You get a real shit Attack Role, but you don't care because it gives you +5 dodge AC (+2 from defensive +1 from ranks in acrobatics, +2 from combat expertise), and you to have the Barkskin. All the damage comes from the AC, so your round is really "lost." But if the threat needs an extra hit, you can just hit someone with the same combat feats, and land a decent blow. Get a reach weapon and positioning becomes a lot easier.

Extra tricks:
Buy the animal a Helm of the Mammoth Lord for an extra natural attack
Get him a few skirmisher tricks. The "move at double speed" one has proven very valuable. (The rules are badly written, discuss with GM)
Wear a +1 Menacing Gauntlet. This adds another +2 to hit to the ape if you stand adjacent to the enemy.
Don't buy a +1 amulet of mighty fists, go straight for an elemental enchant. Use Greater Magic Fang instead once you are level 8.
Know your animal focuses... they solve problems.


Hmm, whenever I see requests like this, my mind immediately attempts to think outside of the box of what is normally thought of as a tank, but can fill the same role. Humor me, if you can.

Half-elf Shaman, archetype your choice (Crystal Tender may be fun)
Spirit(s) of your own choice (Maybe Lore?)
Slap the protector archetype on your spirit animal (familiar)
Spend the feats for the animal companion (Nature Soul, Animal Ally, Boon Companion)
Slap whatever archetype you want on the companion (keep share spells)

The important bits of this is using the elf favored class option for +5ft range for a hex (Chant), picking the witch hex Protective Luck, and then picking up the cleric spell "Shield Other" through the half-elf/human favored class bonus. If you took Lore Spirit, and Arcane Enlightenment, select some defensive 'self-only' buffs spells (like mirror image).

The concept is using Protective luck on your animal companion so that any attack thrown at it has to be rolled twice (and take the lower result), boost its AC with barkskin, and mirror image to keep the attacks ineffective (until higher level). Any attacks that do make it through are halved between you and the companion, and then halved again between you and the familiar.


I am going to just go with the original question- even if the other options suggested have good options, they often take us far from the original intent. So having an answer to the original question can at least provide a good yard stick.

So, my answer- Ankylosaurus is probably good. It has decent natural armor, starting off with +9 (later bonuses are countered by the normal penalties when they go large).

Additionally, it gets the stun ability on its tail attack- that means the enemy cannot take actions, they lose dex bonus, and another -2 to AC. If I remember right, the DC is 1/2 level/hit dice +str bonus- which is good for a creature that gains str bonuses as it levels. So it will likely remain relevant. Overall, if the enemy cannot take an action, then it cannot do damage, which means that you have accomplished the main role of a tank.


Paladin:
Unnamed Hero
Kyton-spawn tiefling paladin 6 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends 22, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 264)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
Aura courage (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 10, flat-footed 23 (+10 armor, +3 shield)
hp 64 (6d10+24)
Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +9; +2 vs. death
Immune disease, fear; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 longsword +11/+6 (1d8+5/19-20)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 3/day (DC 16, 3d6), smite evil 2/day (+3 attack and AC, +6 damage)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . 1/day—web (DC 15)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . At will—detect evil
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
. . 1st—compel hostility[UC] (2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +6; CMB +10; CMD 20
Feats Fey Foundling[ISWG], Monstrous Mount, Power Attack
Traits reactionary, seeker
Skills Acrobatics -6 (-10 to jump), Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist -4, Handle Animal +11, Intimidate +5, Perception +5, Ride +2; Racial Modifiers +2 Escape Artist, +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Common
SQ divine bond (mount), lay on hands 6/day (3d6), mercies (diseased, fatigued)
Other Gear +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, +1 longsword, belt of giant strength +2, cloak of resistance +1, 65 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (3d6 hit points, 6/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Mercy (Diseased) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes disease, as per the remove disease spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +6 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.

--------------------

Animal Companion CR –
Griffon (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Combat)
LG Large magical beast
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 12, flat-footed 23 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +8 natural, -1 size)
hp 57 (6d10+24)
Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +3 (+4 morale bonus vs. enchantment effects)
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (average)
Melee bite +9 (1d6+6)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 19, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 24
Feats Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Toughness
Skills Fly +0, Perception +10
SQ devotion
Other Gear mithral agile breastplate[APG]
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 morale bonus on Will saves vs. enchantment effects.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fly (40 feet, Average) You can fly!
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ ft. by sense of smell.

Self Healing, decent AC, good saves, Compel Hostility, Excellent Mobility, griffon companion.

Take Armor of the Pit at 7th level, invest in Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection and Dusty Rose Ioun Stone as funds become available.


If Core Classes are the only ones allowed, then the best class for an animal companion is Druid. Rangers get one later, but the companion will be 4 levels behind which means you will want Boon Companion to boost it back up.

If you can convince the GM to allow hybrid classes, then Hunter would be a good choice. It gets Outflank for free at level 2 and a bonus Teamwork feat every 3 levels. And all Teamwork feats are freely shared with the companion. Makes for a great melee character with the right feats. With the feat Pack Flanking and a companion that you can ride, you'd be getting the benefit of many teamwork feats all the time as well as flanking bonuses.

You will want to boost your Con a lot. Probably your Dex too so your AC is higher.

Grand Lodge

I have and have helped with several animal companion tanks builds. Some of these have been to solo frontliner for multiple PFS scenarios.

Things for all builds
- AC HP and ac should be good this is easy with a bit of investment.
- Iron will panic will stop the animal from tanking
- Bodyguard is a good option to ensure the animal takes damage
- If the PC has more HP than the animal or is substantially harder to hit use shield companion.

Some nice to haves
- Grab or trip these prevent make your animal harder to ignore and prevent damage from being taken.

builds

- Tower shield specialist wild child brawler. Two characters that are hard to kill using bodyguard and doing decent damage.

- Hard to kill cast with an animal palidin, bloodrager and barbarian all fall into the category.

- Spell caster with an animal cleric (animal domain and familiar granting domain are amazing), shamans, sylvan sorcerer etc. These allow crazy spell combination like mirror image on a tiger, or polymorph spells, Source Severance on a tiger. Casters are not normally near combat so they can support the animal tank making it really hard to kill.

Best example is a separatist cleric with an animal and a protector familiar using shield companion to share bodyguard damage 3 ways. Tripling the effectiveness of channels.

Shadow Lodge

after racial mods:

10 str
16 dex
12 con
14 int
11 wis
18 cha (including level 4 and 8 bumps)
Cavalier envoy honor guard order of the cocatrice 5, thug rogue 1(taken at 5th level), bard savage skald 1 (taken at 2nd level), Battle herald 1(taken at 7)

feats: combat reflexes, weapon finesse, skill focus intimidate, horse master, mounted combat(b), Dazzling display(b) Body guard(b) Mobility(b)

max ranks in intim, diplomacy, almost max in bluff and perception. quite a few in disguise. max sense motive

intimidate: 4 cha 8 ranks, +3 class skill, +3 skill focus, +5 Mask of fear, + 2 if i share a language, +2 mwk tool+ 3 circlet of persuasion=30

traits: reactionary, HElpful (+4 when aid another)

+3 benevolent brestplate aid another with bodyguard feat for 8ac (including +1 from class ability) as a move i can inspire teamwork (battle herald ability) and add +1 to amount aided fo me and allies

mount has combat reflexes, narrow frame, bodyguard, additional traits,as his feats. Mobility as a bonus feat from cav archetype

YES HE HAS A 3 INT

traits adopted and the one that lets him reroll a saving throw 1/day (halfling god trait)

mount has totem guide archetype, 1 rank in linguistics and 1 rank in know religion, because hes a devout sort of guy. The mount made his own decision to be religious

mount has +2 (maybe 3) benevolent armor. he aids for 6 ac, 7 if i spent my move to buff

level of thug lets you frighten people for 1 round if you beat the demoralize dc by 10 (needs them to be shaken for 4 or more rounds, auto add 1 round, so beating the dc by 10 equals frightened)
Cav bonus feat dazzling display lets you do it as a standard, and effect all enemys in 30 ft

once you can afford +5 barding and armor and both rider and mount have bodyguard feats the rider can add 10 or 11 to adjacent party members AC, mount can add another 9 to 10, AOE fear effect makes enemy's within 30 feet run in terror


If your campaign allows Psionics, you can use the Psionics Augmented: Psicrystals Expanded book to turn your Psicrystal into a crystalline creature. After that, as far as a tanky class, I'd say a Soulthief Vitalist is probably the most unkillable thing around. Their Steal Health and Transfer Wounds acts as a triage heal throughout the group, or you can just use the whole thing to heal yourself. Vitalist's AC typically sucks, but they make up for it because they essentially "drain-tank" mobs, where they steal health from the mob every successful hit. They attack Touch AC, but they're a lvl9 manifestor and have 2/4 BAB. You can make your bonus to attack a lot higher by getting Blind Fight + Intuitive Fighting, which allows you to use Wisdom for your melee attacks in lieu of Strength.

Also, get the Hammer power with the Expanded Knowledge feat at lvl 5 or 7 to really start piling on the damage. Hammer can be used for multiple charges, so you can use Steal Health or Xfer Wounds and Hammer will go off just because you touched them.

Also, as a Vitalist you can manifest Vigor/Biofeedback throughout your Collective, so that's a temporary 5HP per 1PP you spend, and DR2/- +1DR per every 3PP, so at lvl 6 that would be a temporary 30HP to you, your Psicrystal (with Share Powers), and everyone in your Collective, as well as DR3/- to everyone in your Collective. You can make Vigor +1ML better with the Psigifted trait, so it would become 35 temp HP.

Also, get the power Share Pain, and Share Pain with your Psicrystal Creature, essentially halving the damage incurred for each attack. If you get low on health, re-manifest Vigor and/or heal yourself with the Natural Healing power (which you can manifest through your Collective and have all of the healing go directly to you. I.E. if you have 4 people in your Collective, Natural Healing would cause 3HP of healing per 1PP to everyone in your Collective, so 12HP for 1PP.)

Edit: At lvl 9 Vitalist, they get Expanded Knowledge for free. This is a great time to pick up something awesome like Fold Space (the Psionic version of Dimension Door) or Flight, Energy Missile (like Magic Missile but there's a save for half on damage, but you can customize the damage descriptor type), or Mind Control.

Sovereign Court

Oradin with the 3 feats to get companion. Take fey founding and other healing feats is you can and antagonize.
Anyways think obout your strategy, have a reliant source of avoid taking all the damage... any way of control should do it.
A halfling invulnerable rager with Stalwart, Improved Stalwart and cautious fighter can get a lot of dr and be very hard to kill, you could just buy a strong pet and he is ready to go.


plaidwandering wrote:

max damage with power attack and a grab landing is 47

also it's three separate attacks, so his DR should have made the max 38

a lvl 6 barb should have a good chunk more than this

plus in a surprise round? it can only use 1 slam...

a new kind of tank isn't going to help, you already had one of the best kinds and it sounds like it was taken out under suspicious circumstances

I'm going to second this. A barbarian with 14 con has just about 60hp before rage (No FCB or Toughness included here). I don't think there is anything within an appropriate challenge range that can gank that in the surprise round (power attacking sycthe crits not withstanding).

On topic:
It seems like archetypes are allowed but you are restricted to core classes. Similar to what other people have suggested, I'd go with an animal companion. This leaves the Druid, Ranger, Sorcerer (Sylvan Wildblooded), Barbarian (Mad Dog), Cleric (Animal Domain), and anyone who takes the three feat progression for a fully leveled companion.

If they want to join in the fight themselves, that removes the Sorcerer. A Mad Dog Barbarian would be horrifying (not just one, but TWO raging death machines?), as would a melee focused druid and their buffed up companion (potentially tankier but less face melty than the mad dog). I'd personally go with the druid for other things to do besides fighting.


The Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior Fighter with the 3 feats for an animal companion.

You have a familiar and an animal companion, lots of feats, good armor and weapon proficiencies, wings at level 7, and a Mutagen.

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