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I've always done homebrew worlds, even when I was quite young and inexperienced. For me the creation of a unique world has always been one of the more appealing aspects of DnD.
That being said it would often be years between campaigns, so new worlds were being created all the time. It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I found a half decade old map, resurected that setting and began building a cannon that stayed consistent.
The continent of Syrix became a lot of fun for me, and felt like a home away from home. Kings, nobles and prominent PC heroes from the past formed an increasingly complex and interwoven cast of characters. It was really cool to be able to reference historical events and heroes, to understand the continent not just as a series of names on Index cards and words on maps but as a living breathing place.
My third campaign in Syrix is when everything went downhill. Despite a fun start with more role playing and out of combat fun than I've ever had, there was a disruptive character. My brother's ranger, established in the previous campaign as an honored war hero, showed psychopathic tendencies for the first time and for no discernable reason. First he threatened to murder a helpful shopkeeper, and when This act got the party outlawed and living in a cave, he threatened the bandit captain who had been letting the party live with them, ending in his trial by combat and death.
Because only one player in the group makes his own sheets, I gave My brother a backup sheet as was tradition when someone dies. This character was a full on murder hobo who died within fifteen minutes, and the third sheet I gave him, apparently trying to avenge the murder hobo's death, became a murder hobo but was Julius Ceasar'd by the party and died.
One session. Three disruptive murder hobos. What really bothers me is how this degraded the story. In fact the thought of my continent bothers me now, the cannon is ruined, like an episode of GoT interrupted by three Tasmanian devils tornadoing Gregor and Jon and Queen Cersei off their horses. I'm throwing the cannon out and starting again.
Any similar experiences?
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I've always done homebrew worlds, even when I was quite young and inexperienced. For me the creation of a unique world has always been one of the more appealing aspects of DnD.
That being said it would often be years between campaigns, so new worlds were being created all the time. It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I found a half decade old map, resurected that setting and began building a cannon that stayed consistent.
The continent of Syrix became a lot of fun for me, and felt like a home away from home. Kings, nobles and prominent PC heroes from the past formed an increasingly complex and interwoven cast of characters. It was really cool to be able to reference historical events and heroes, to understand the continent not just as a series of names on Index cards and words on maps but as a living breathing place.
My third campaign in Syrix is when everything went downhill. Despite a fun start with more role playing and out of combat fun than I've ever had, there was a disruptive character. My brother's ranger, established in the previous campaign as an honored war hero, showed psychopathic tendencies for the first time and for no discernable reason. First he threatened to murder a helpful shopkeeper, and when This act got the party outlawed and living in a cave, he threatened the bandit captain who had been letting the party live with them, ending in his trial by combat and death.
Because only one player in the group makes his own sheets, I gave My brother a backup sheet as was tradition when someone dies. This character was a full on murder hobo who died within fifteen minutes, and the third sheet I gave him, apparently trying to avenge the murder hobo's death, became a murder hobo but was Julius Ceasar'd by the party and died.
One session. Three disruptive murder hobos. What really bothers me is how this degraded the story. In fact the thought of my continent bothers me now, the cannon is ruined, like an episode of GoT interrupted by three Tasmanian devils tornadoing Gregor and...
Why would your homebrew's canon be ruined by three characters? They were killed off. What specifically bothers you about the thought of your continent now?
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Is your brother still in the game? If not, you can probably work with your players to fix your campaign, even (if necessary) going so far as to pretend that none of the events you described ever happened. If your brother is still in the game, you probably won't be able to do anything fun until you can get him to work out whatever issues he has.
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Is your brother still in the game? If not, you can probably work with your players to fix your campaign, even (if necessary) going so far as to pretend that none of the events you described ever happened. If your brother is still in the game, you probably won't be able to do anything fun until you can get him to work out whatever issues he has.
^
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Sorry to hear about your experience. I've only run homebrew games from my start in 1985, having first taken over the one my DM ran us through when he graduated from college then making my own. Nothing like this has ever happened in my setting. I'd be really upset if it did.
You get my sympathy, but: You spent a lot of energy on this homebrew world, so it's important for you. That's not necessarily true for your players, though - players usually just want to play. Your brother might have completely different reasons for messing around: Maybe he has some stress he wanted to get rid of, maybe he has unhappy with the group's playstyle, maybe he felt offended by you out of the game. Without talking to him, you will never know.
Creating a new homebrew world won't fix the problem. But I think your work can be saved with talking - and probably with removing your brother from this game table.
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A single disruptive PC shouldn't degrade an entire continent. The nice thing about a homebrew realm is that it's up to you to discern why things went wrong and then it's up to the remaining players to get it back on track.
A couple deranged individuals, previously unknown to the community, wouldn't be worrying; but to see a war hero fall to blood lust and madness is disconcerting. There's a reason for it in-game, though. Maybe someone poisoned the water supply, maybe cultists were manipulating the ranger in an effort to take revenge against a bandit captain who had wronged them. Your problem has a solution, even if you don't know what it is yet.
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Plane shift the problem away...
My friend who moved down here brought their home brewed world and told me the story of how they had a friend who actually started that world. They had a falling out and he basically said, "I'll just take my world and go home". Well,they had played together for several years and they developed a lot of his world with no input from him other than him saying "Okay, cool". He had one spot that he used and the other guys developed the rest of the world. Map, kingdoms and prominent NPC's... all their own and not his. So, when he called and said he was coming over to get his map, they cut out his part and gave it to him. They worked on the rest of the world, so they kept it. They explained it as an issue between gods. In the world, there was a colossal opaque dome around where the small kingdom was. They tried different things in the space until they decided on a good map with a kingdom. Then the dome disappeared. The people who came from their, had their memories changed so they eventually "forgot" they weren't there all the while and the same was for the people in the surrounding kingdoms.
So... Planeshift the problem away and keep your world. The other players see the world ripple and the dead bodies disappear. When they go out into the world, they find the events over the past (however long he was messing things up) never occurred.
Is your brother still in the game? If not, you can probably work with your players to fix your campaign, even (if necessary) going so far as to pretend that none of the events you described ever happened. If your brother is still in the game, you probably won't be able to do anything fun until you can get him to work out whatever issues he has.
I like to think of my games as a story told around the campfire. As a hobby tabletop gaming scratches that primitive itch many of us have to escape technology, escape reality and tell stories. And the fact of the matter is, the story now has a section that reads "and then one of our brave adventurers, the elven war hero known for defending the narrow pass and saving there kingdom, threatened a helpful shopkeep, was banished, suicidally threatened the bandit Lord and got himself killed. On their way to seek fame and fortune, a murder hobo who joined our noble company, totally not trying to avenge a real world grievance with an older brother at all, killed as many people as he could before being put down. Then, for the honor of the fallen murder hobo, his identical murder hobo friend picked a fight with the party and was slain.
I'm not expecting Robin Williams acting or Cormack Macarthy story telling from anyone at my table but let's face it: This story's f#&~ing dead.
As for saying it didn't happen, I don't feel it's within my power as DM. It happened. We all saw it happen, it was real. There's no loading back to the last checkpoint. That's how I've always felt anyway.
And yeah, my brother is lifetime banned from my games but unfortunately this burned me out from DMing for a while and the new DM lets him play.
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You didn't have a disruptive character, you had a disruptive player; that's an entirely different kettle of fish.
I have my suspicions that he intentionally tried to sink your game; as such, I feel hitting a cosmic reset button, as it were, is fully justified.
And by the by, your brother sounds like a total word-I-can't-say-on-these-forums-so-I'll-just-say-douche-instead.
How old is your brother?
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Just saying, not to excuse your brother but if your homebrew world's story is "f@#$ing dead" from three characters dying, it might not be a very good story despite your attachment. It sounds rather like you had one "canon story" set up for your world; real games don't pan out like that.
You're better off writing a novel.
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Just saying, not to excuse your brother but if your homebrew world's story is "f@#$ing dead" from three characters dying, it might not be a very good story despite your attachment. It sounds rather like you had one "canon story" set up for your world; real games don't pan out like that.
You're better off writing a novel.
Or his sib went out of his way to sink the canon.
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When someone comes looking for a sympathetic ear, a proverbial shoulder to cry on, they are often met instead with a plethora of suggestions for solving the problem, from well-meaning individuals. You have my proverbial shoulder to cry on. You have my sympathy. Perhaps unfortunately, you also have my suggestion to solve the problem. I know the kind of work that goes into building a world, and the idea of one person ruining your years of investment in an afternoon makes me sick.
Why did the noble elven war hero systematically destroy his reputation before ending his life in an embarrassingly short-sighted fashion? While the common folk might not know better, anyone who has been questing with this elf knows that his recent actions went very much against his character.
Enough so that they begin to suspect some unknown force of driving him to his premature end.
They are right.
On the dark throne of "insert place that the war hero was warring against" a new force is stirring. Lead by the mesmerist "insert a cool name here", the darkness once again looks to "name of area the war hero was defending". So mighty and beloved by the people was the war hero that the mesmerist took their downfall into their personal attention, crushing their mind and besmirching their reputation. After their recent acts, the common folk are confused and unity is crumbling in the kingdom as some rush to defend and others to condemn.
The mesmerist also sent along another serf, this time to keep an eye on the war hero's comrades. To kill them all in the same manner would be too suspicious, so rather they were sent to do two things: determine if the party is a threat and, if so, destroy them.
The first was a weak vessel, their mind snapped under the strain of the mesmerists mind. They went totally insane, and would have blown the mesmerist's cover if they were not swiftly put down.
Fearing that the party's suspicion had been aroused, the mesmerist sent one more servant. An assassin.
After infiltrating the party's ranks, they attempted to put them down, luckily for our heroes they were unsuccessful.
The mesmerist is left in a difficult situation. They desire to conquer the lands of "name", and discord is ripe and the country is ready to be taken. However, their is one small group of heroes that could still be seen as the bearers of the mantle of "elven hero" and could unite the kingdom against them.
How will they proceed? to amass their armies? to send more assassins? surely the party must fall, but they can't be made martyrs. Subtlety and tact must be used, as well as haste, if the country is to be theirs.
The PCs must be wary against this looming threat, but they have other priorities too. A number of dear friends of theirs were senslessely murdered. Diamonds are required to raise them from the dead, and adventurers know of only one way to earn money: killing monsters and taking their stuff.
Can you do a "Dirk the Daring?"
If the elven war hero went insane, this would have happened...
If the elven war hero stays sane, this would have happened...
Alternatively, can you recycle the parts of the canon or homebrew world that the players haven't seen yet and just set up your new campaign there? You can even treat it like a new campaign world if that's easier for you, but you can still preserve all the work you've done already.
It totally sucks when one player ruins the fun for everyone else. Sometimes, you just got hit the rewind button, drop that one player, and proceed with everyone else except him. Most players will appreciate the effort you've committed to your campaign and will be willing to help you keep it going.
It's also important to realize that it's not a story, it's a game. It has a some narrative aspects, obviously, but it's a shared experience with a system of game play to resolve conflict (combat, natural disasters, interpersonal relations, barriers and hazards, etc.).
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This kind of sounds like attachment issue ._.; I mean, yeah disruptive player, but the whole "setting ruined because one player was ass" is kind of melodramatic. That said, I can understand the feeling, I once felt like "ah s!*!, player left the game and I had planned a lot of s%@+ around their character's backstory campaign ruined" but got over it and realized it didn't really matter that much to the campaign just because my plans got scrapped.
Resetting things because player out of character tried to assassinate the game is valid thing to do, GM has power to do whatever they want as long players don't mind.
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Why I Don't Do Homebrews, Reason 432: This.
You don't homebrew at all? wow we are two very different cloth storage devices sir.
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Obviously in game there is some sort of infectious curse that is driving otherwise sane people to murderhobo. It is now up the the PCs to find out where it came from and stop it before it drives more people to random acts of violence
Obviously in game there is some sort of infectious curse that is driving otherwise sane people to murderhobo. It is now up the the PCs to find out where it came from and stop it before it drives more people to random acts of violence
You, sir, have won the internet for today.
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I have been in similar (yet not so serious) situations many times.
I don't have a homebrewed world, but we took a stablished setting and have been playing in it for so many years and so many adventures, all intertwined, that it's like it was homebrewed in many aspects.
I have had many disruptive players, some of them trying to mess with stablished characters or events just for the fun of it, or acting so off from the expectations for a member of their society/race/social conditions that seems far from believable. I have had a member of a pacifist race going full murder hobo on innocents!
What I usually do, once the disruptive character/player is out of the game, is trying to find the most plausible explanation for his behaviour to make sense and, if the character isn't already dead or out of the game, find a good way to get them out in a believable way and, if possible, solving all the harm it might have caused to the setting canon (i.e. the murder hobo of the pacifist race would have been publicly rejected by his whole race to show other players that this ISN'T the canon for this race and they don't support it).
Honestly, it's always a solution. I can see how you can be so discouraged after what happened, this kind of stuff can easily demoralize a person who has put as much effort as you have put into your world. But don't let the disruptive players get their way. Your world is worth much more than that.
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I think you are attributing (and generalizing) the negative feelings that the events brought forth to you and associating them with your campaign world. I suggest taking some time and analyzing the feelings this brought forth so you can better understand. The actual ramifications to your campaign seem fixable and not as calamitous as you may feel to outsiders. I wish you luck! remember its your game if you wanna ret-con do some ret-conning.
As I'm sure that others are saying, you're projecting. The problem is with your brother, not your world setting. When your brother apologizes, you will have the ability to game in this setting again. Talk to your brother and see what happened from his perspective, share yours, and see if you can come to a resolution.
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IF your brother ever apologizes,
Fixed that for you.
Can you tell I hate my brother?
Similar experiences? Absolutely. In my first homebrew campaign that I ran, it all began to go wrong when during the second session I handed several important quest papers to my group's LN wizard (a first time player) who had assumed the role of leader. She glanzed at the documents as others looked on in silence, and without saying a word simply folded them and placed them into her bag and never shared their contents with anyone: she rather changed the subject as if nothing had happened (At that moment I realized I should've made a copy). Things escalated slowly from this point onward and the party in question managed burn down (or indirectly caused the burning of) five villages and settlements, narrowly escaped authorities twice, three times skipped the quest givers because they found them to be suspicious and tried to start religious holy war against all civilization several times before I finally ended the whole mess.
I'd like to stress that I had both CE and CN characters running with the group who played their parts admirably: they followed the quest-hooks and killed only in order to get more loot and booze. It was the Lawful neutral players that did all the burning, derailing and destruction.
While I do understand that your brother's behaviour has left a rather nasty mark on the story you've created, maybe you could try to experience the game through his eyes. Not all players are interested in advancing epic plots centered around fates of kings and kingdoms, some are there simply to have fun while killing monsters and looting dungeons. I've noticed that when players interests conflict with yours, that's where the frustration and derailing begins. My players never wanted to be involved in a plot full of politics, intrigue, and spying that at first I tried to force upon them. They'd rather simply go on a pirate adventure and kill anything that happened to come by. It's an arduous job to combine the two, gameplay and story, but I see it as entirely possible.
Looking at the other side of the coin, my gang of murdering arsonist left me with some great homebrewn lore: in my campaigns, it is now established that halflings settle their differences through events called "games", where the only way to win the said "game" is to prove that the other side cheated, other goals be damned.
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Why I Don't Do Homebrews, Reason 432: This.You don't homebrew at all? wow we are two very different cloth storage devices sir.
Because the last thing this planet would want to endure is my vengeance for some bunch of plebeian brutes... I mean, my beloved players picking apart my insanely brilliant setting, its masterful lore and the amazing, GRRM-eat-your-heart-out NPCs, or heavens forbid, killing my favourite Mary Sue GMNPC.
That's why I stick to pre-made settings and adventures. No hard feelings here.
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I don’t understand how one war hero going mad and then two rando nobodies being stabby could possible derail a whole continent with “Kings, nobles and prominent PC heroes from the past formed an increasingly complex and interwoven cast of characters”.
How complex and interwoven can it be if one bad apple can ruin an entire continent?
I don’t get it.
It’s like saying if Legolas went mad and Aragorn and Gimlie had to kill him, then spent some brief time with a couple thugs, the whole of LOTR would be derailed.
It wouldn’t.
For starters, the term is "canon." This is important, because the other is a siege weapon, which implies you're building one to conquer a settlement or vessel. It's like Rogue and Rouge all over again.
Furthermore, I don't see how the two other characters made a significant impact on the story other than having filler for the PCs.
But for this sort of thing, I've not had this sort of problem, primarily because I was more proactive about these sorts of things from happening.
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Two things to remember.
1. There is always someone bigger and better armed.
Kick a cop in the groin. - enough said, lol
2. The world is bigger than you realize, usually too big.
Your brother threatened a cobbler, got kicked out of the city, and got shanked by a bandit he shacked up with. Does the cobbler care about that next week? Does the city care about it enough to militarize into a manhunt for the party? No, its between your brother and a medieval Al Bundy and got resolved by some random bandit's sword.
Even if your brother did kill the cobbler, someone (son, apprentice, etc.) can take his place and ensure the city has shoes, and now wants your brother dead. THIS IS GM GOLD HERE! This isn't some abstract, high-level "save this kingdom", its personal and relatable.
Younger players tend toward murderhobory at first because they don't understand anything beyond combat. Combat has the most rules and most pages in the books. Combat is exciting, do or die.
Did you enjoy the beginning of "The Phantom Menace" where they spend an hour arguing over taxes or the end, with Darth Maul holding his own against two Jedis?
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I appreciate all the responses. Of course it would take all day to respond to everything everyone said so I'll respond to some things that stood out at me.
First, some of you don't understand why these little murder hobo incidents have bothered me to the point that I desire a reboot. Basically, it amounts to the fact that I see my brother's grinning face on every king, queen, peasant and shopkeep in the continent. I was successfully provoked and it's permanent, no rational argument will asuage this. My best friend aka the current DM thinks I'm nuts. It's actually so bad that I'm ensuring my friend's current world stays separate from the new cannon because his world is linked distantly to the murder hobos and a couple of his other characters. A proverbial bridge has been burned.
Also noteworthy were the comments about handwaving the events out of the story, creating an alternate dimension or otherwise waving a DM magic wand to make this ugly episode dissapear. I wish I could do this and "believe" it, but I subscribe to a school of thought which maintains that when things happen in game they're "real" and irreversible. It's the same reason I don't fudge the dice after critting someone's character out of existence. I could say the character is alive, but I would hate myself. I've never been a fan of marvel, particularly the aspect of the cannon where something can happen one way but happened differently in an alternate universe. In other words, it's hard for me to relate to a dead spider man or a senile and sickly wolverine. These things don't strike me as sad because I know that in another universe they're alive and well, and in yet another universe they're awful villains anyway. I'm all about one single consistent universe.
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Also for the nice man who liked my post and asked a question, my beaming bubbly baby brother is 26.
Also for the nice man who liked my post and asked a question, my beaming bubbly baby brother is 26.
... physically. Mentally seems to be another issue.
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Some people have a psychological need to destroy what others create. I'm not saying that your brother has this, Zolanoteph, but it seems to be something to consider.
100%
He's the kind of troll who in the end really annoys himself the hardest by alienating those around him.
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Personally, I think if you give yourself some more time off from the setting eventually things will 'calm down' a bit. Eventually you should be able to start thinking about the campaign setting itself without thinking about the stuff that your brother did. It is probably just still too fresh in your mind and you're obsessing about it a bit, lol.
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This could be an opportunity. Now, admittedly I don't know you but, have you thought about a setting change? (i.e. modern, sci-fi, etc...) The NPCs in a fantasy setting are ruined, but what about a cantina on a desert world? You sound like a GM that I envy, having a surplus of creative story juices so much that you can create your own world. Maybe add extra challenge and try for a different setting?
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This could be an opportunity. Now, admittedly I don't know you but, have you thought about a setting change? (i.e. modern, sci-fi, etc...) The NPCs in a fantasy setting are ruined, but what about a cantina on a desert world? You sound like a GM that I envy, having a surplus of creative story juices so much that you can create your own world. Maybe add extra challenge and try for a different setting?
What an interesting idea.
To be honest, for me DnD = Fantasy. But maybe I can do something a little different. The surface world is destroyed and the survivors live like fugitives in caves? After a cataclysmic alignment of stars There are mysterious mists that roll around the landscape teleporting people who enter or speeding up time while the earth splits and fissures? A world far from the sun where everything is cold and moonbeasts lurk the forlorn surface?
There are a lot of odd angles I could approach a reboot from. Even if I choose to do another generic sword and sorcery setting the mere excersise of dreaming up alternatives is cool.
Please note that this is a duplicate thread. The other one has more responses.
This could be an opportunity. Now, admittedly I don't know you but, have you thought about a setting change? (i.e. modern, sci-fi, etc...) The NPCs in a fantasy setting are ruined, but what about a cantina on a desert world? You sound like a GM that I envy, having a surplus of creative story juices so much that you can create your own world. Maybe add extra challenge and try for a different setting?What an interesting idea.
To be honest, for me DnD = Fantasy. But maybe I can do something a little different. The surface world is destroyed and the survivors live like fugitives in caves? After a cataclysmic alignment of stars There are mysterious mists that roll around the landscape teleporting people who enter or speeding up time while the earth splits and fissures? A world far from the sun where everything is cold and moonbeasts lurk the forlorn surface?
There are a lot of odd angles I could approach a reboot from. Even if I choose to do another generic sword and sorcery setting the mere excersise of dreaming up alternatives is cool.
If for you d&d = fantasy than I've got some good news. I haven't checked it out yet but luckily the good people of paizo just released a new system a few months ago (4th from the top, top left hand side of your current browser page). Maybe it's time for a new system?
Based on the (very little) I've read it seems kinda dune-ish rather than sci-fi. Dune seemed like space fantasy to me.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've had things like that happen. Believe me I know how tough it can be. My best advice is to find a way to have the events shape the world. It might not match where you wanted to go, but it does make the world feel a little more alive, and that the players can affect it. The world shouldn't exist in a vacuum. When the players aren't around, it's still moving and working, and they're actions can have positive or negative effects on it.
For example. I was GMing a homebrewed game (not Pathfinder, my own system, based on the d20 system. Fantasy setting). In it the characters play people in a special order. There are codes they live by. The adventure I was running involved the party finding and dealing with a dragon god who had a cult surrounding him. In order to take him out, they needed a special spell, in order to get that, they had to speak to a specific dragon, and in order to do that, they had to traverse an area called the Draconic Expanse, which is dragon territory.
They were stopped by a dragon who threatened to kill them unless they amused him. He split the party into two groups and commanded that one group preform an act of great good in one nearby village, and the other group to commit an act of great evil in another village. He kept one more party member as a hostage to ensure they did as they were told.
Make a long story short, one of the PCs did not like the situation they were in, so they used a mcguffin to stop time and learn all magic and master it all (something very few could do). As the GM I was under the impression that he was going to fight the dragon. That is not what he did with his new found power. destroyed the village, completely. No survivors. He did it so that the rest of the party wouldn't have to, they're hands could be clean. Once he was sure the dragon was satisfied, he committed suicide and rolled up a new character.
No one, including myself saw this coming. This shook up the players and characters alike. They discussed what this meant for the Arckon Order. Was his act, though evil, good for the sake of the greater good, or was it still wrong?
This one act broke my world, and it broke my order. I decided to roll with it. I had it become a very real problem. My next campaign using this game setting will involve an Arckon civil war, those who agreed with the PC who did it, and those who don't. This war will affect the world in a very real way as the Arckon are powerful and influential.
Needless to say, sometimes it's more fun to roll with a broken world, because it can add tension to the game. However, I see your point about not wanting to continue because you see your brother in everything now. Maybe try to work his betrayal into the story, you might come up with some fun situations.
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It happens to anyone who GMs homebrew eventually.
Let me tell you about the time I played with one person who was interested and two teenagers who wanted to live out their power fantasies and deal with repressed rage.
The RPer got back to a shop to see the shopkeeper dead, crucified upside down outside of it with a message written in blood saying 'Gone to kill more people, meet up later.'
There were no words for how completely much this ruined GMing for me for a good while. Eventually you move on. That's the upside.