Paladin of Iomedae

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Oh, I think you'll know a vorpal weapon when you see it because adventurers like to brag about their stuff.

"You see this sword? Vorpal. Want me to prove it?"

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the David wrote:

I don't know you or your friend, but I think you're doing cultists wrong.

** spoiler omitted **

This is very well put. If more RPG cults acted more like actual cults, we would have more interesting adventures and stories. I may think about how I operate the cult the next time I want to use one in an adventure I'm running. You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

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No, what you do, is take it literally. Have the party get to the BBEG and find that he's just some dude with a wooden picket sign that says, "I'm evil!" But the twist is that the sign is intelligent, evil, and took over this guy's will. It's the sign that says "I'm evil" that's been controlling the guy the whole time.

Everyone wins. The GM gets to have an evil villain that literally says they're evil. The players get a twist they don't see coming. The critic gets an unconventional villain with a surprising amount of nuance for such a silly concept.

Obviously, something like this wouldn't work in a serious-toned game. But the concept is sound if you were to use the idea of this twist with some more serious themes. The villain IS more sympathetic; they're under the control of another. This forces the party to make some heavy choices concerning what to do about the one who's been pulling all the strings but turns out to be a puppet themselves.

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VoodistMonk wrote:

I would love to learn how to really present a dragon like I imagine they are supposed to be...

Even within the printed Paizo material, I wish I knew how to utilize everything they already have. And I have heard of people that can best party after party using the same old dragon, just using it well.

Dragons do not come of age by being foolish. It is hard to show a thousand years of cunning and guile in an encounter with the party, since wise dragon would likely avoid such an encounter at all costs. Even a hoard can be replaced, so long as the dragon is alive to replace it.

A dragon with specific enough interest in the party to take on a humanoid form to befriend them seems insane, to me. They could either tell a minion they already have to act as an ambassador and go liason with the party, or pay/hire the exact right "person" for the job. Taking on such a risk oneself is a fool's errand. A dragon old enough to perform such tricks theirself would be experienced enough to know that the information one could possibly gain is information you already know... avoid these murderhobos of you want to live.

I would agree with you to a point. True Dragons are hyper-intelligent, highly magical beings. They are wise, clever, and devious (regardless of color and type). I agree that adult and higher-aged dragons would be too smart to get themselves into trouble. Maybe some younger ones would be more reckless as they don't have the experience.

However, one of the reasons why I love running dragon encounters is because I believe dragons have ranges of personalities and desires.

For example, I had a party run into a Cloud Dragon who had a hoard of spoons. Just spoons. All nd of spoons. Fancy spoons, princess spoons, worthless spoons, common everyday spoons. She just loved spoons. She wouldn't let the party move through her domine unless they gave her a spoon. Thankfully, they happened to have one (I think it was made of clay).

As for dragons never putting themselves into a position to interact directly with a party, I must respectfully disagree. I think some might, but not all. I think many dragons, though wise and intelligent, are also arrogant. And let's be honest, who's going to mess with an ancient dragon? Not many people; adventures are crazy, after all. I can easily see a dragon being like, "I'm so powerful, no one would dare piss me off or try to harm me. No one is that suicidal. What do I have to fear from this party and their petty magic and puny weapons?"

Such was the case of an encounter with an ancient silver dragon in a campaign I ran. He was LG and considered the area they were in his domain to protect. He was also very nature-aligned. He didn't want the animals that lived in his territory to be harmed. He considered himself the law of the land, and he (secretly) ruled and protected it. The party ended up finding a roc nest, climbing inside, killing the roc, and taking the egg. The dragon discovered this and visited the party, appearing like an old wizard. He approached them at their campfire. They instantly did not trust him and questioned him, and all they could learn was that he was very magical (they failed their checks to see that he was polymorphed). He asked if he could camp with them and use their fire. They didn’t trust him, but he showed them that he had no weapons and meant no harm. They agreed though they were cautious. He asked them of their adventures, and they brought up the Roc. The following day. He told them that he protected this land and found the dead roc and wanted to know what happened. He was giving them the benefit of the doubt; he is good after all. After the party told him they needed the egg and the roc attacked them. The dragon-in-human-form questioned them and learned that they provoked the roc when they tried to take the egg and defended itself and its young.

He told them that they must make reparations for their crimes. They were to hatch the egg and find someone to care for the baby roc until it could be released into the wild and find someone who knew about rocs to do this. The party was like, “Who are you to order us?” He told them he ruled this land and the creatures were under his protection, and he would allow them to make it right. They threatened him. He told them that he would raze their city to the ground if they did not do as they were told within X amount of time. Then he simply walked away. The Ranger drew his bow and attacked.

This Ranger was optimized up the wazoo but still missed the AC, but I fluffed it that he turned and caught the arrow (despite not having that feat, it was more fluff to show them how powerful he was). He broke the arrow in half and stated their deadline again. Then they were freaked out because they figured his shot should have hit a wizard. The Ranger attacked again. This time he actually hit. After taking damage, the dragon turned and said something along the lines of, “We’ll do this the hard way then,” and transformed, and instantly the party realized their mistake, and by then, it was too late. Now, the ancient silver dragon could have wiped the floor with them, but instead, he killed only the Ranger (I think he flew him up 200 feet and dropped him) and told them that they had a deadline to do as he said, then flew away.

Then they tried to find ways to kill the dragon but eventually decided just to comply; it would be cheaper and better than the alternative.

It was a fun encounter. They later made amends with the dragon, and though never fully friends, they became allies.

So, in conclusion, I think it depends on the dragon and the situation on whether or not they would disguise themselves and walk among the adventurers. But yeah, I like running dragon encounters.

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These are some pretty awesome stories.

I love having dragons in human form traveling with the party for a bit, learning what they can about them. It's a lot of fun.

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One of my favorite types of encounters is dragons, both as a GM and a player. I just love how ruthless and clever, or even kind and pragmatic dragons can be (depending on the type and personality). So, I'm curious, what have been your favorite encounters involving dragons? And I mean as a player or a GM, whether it was a fight or resolved diplomatically.

If it's from a published campaign, please use the spoiler format, so nothing gets spoiled.

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Sir Ol'Guy wrote:

I can recall running a game long ago where I felt bad about the amount of treasure (or lack thereof) that I had given out in an earlier session. So I placed a large gem (a ruby) in the hall for the players to find. Simple enough, they'd get instant cash to cover what I had shorted them before. For in game rational, I reasoned that another adventuring party (they knew there were others exploring the same ruins they were) had dropped it as they left - and had not noticed it fall out of their bag.

So, as the heroes approached a intersection they caught sight of a "red twinkle" on the floor ahead. Out came the detect spells, the rogue checking for traps, Paladin doing Detect Evil, the works. Ultimately, even discovering that it was a valuable gem, they elected to bypass that section of tunnel to avoid approaching it. They could come up with NO REASON FOR IT TO BE THERE. It HAD to be a trap, and one they couldn't figure out, so it was best to bust a hole in a couple stone walls to bypass the intersection entirely... leaving that ruby on the ground.

Months later, they would still point out how they could sometimes "foil my evil plans" by "avoiding the bait"...

Haha! I've had players bypass treasure because they didn't trust it either! Classic!

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@Derklord - ABP would never fly with me and the people I game with. It takes the fun out of some elements of the game. We enjoy seeing if we have enough money to buy the things we need (the Big 6) and the other things we may want and choosing between them. ABP just gives it to you. You need to suspend your disbelief, as you say, but for me, it's suspending it a little too far. And the magic is not enchanted on the weapon, it's attuned to it and can be moved around at the PC's leisure.

For example, let's say you're in a fight, and your weapon was taken from you, and the villain escapes with it. In a typical game, this hurts; you put a lot of money you worked hard for into that weapon. But in an ABP game, it's no big deal; just switch the attunement to your backup weapon tomorrow. Or if your armor gets sundered or your cloak is stolen. No actual harm or foul.

If it works for your group, that's fine, but it's not a great system for all people and play styles, and I think that's what @Kasoh is talking about. It's not a bad system; it's just not for everyone.

And yes, it does take some work, despite what you claim, as you have to recalculate prices of weapons with non-enhancement magic on them (Such as Bane, Holy, etc.). It can be a hassle to some GMs who don't want to deal with that level of minutia.

As for @Calybos1's original question, what I find works the easiest is taking some of the treasure they would get from an encounter they bypassed and placing it elsewhere in the adventure as loot in chests or hidden compartments.

I don't recommend transferring unique items if they bypass an encounter.

E.g., The party talks their way out of an encounter that they would have dropped a cool dagger made of cold iron. That happens to be the only cold iron drop in the adventure game, and cold iron is needed to kill a nasty monster later that will not die unless dealt a killing blow from a cold iron weapon (I'm looking at you, RotR). (This wasn't my exact experience with this AP, but it's similar enough to use it as an example here.)

Well, in the context of the story, they either missed their opportunity to get that item, OR they need to rethink how to get that item. If it's a MUST HAVE campaign item required to complete the mission, and the party bypasses it, the GM will need to reroute them back to it. I've had to do this before because a party ignored information they received, used social skills to bypass an encounter, and missed picking up an essential item they needed. They realized they messed up and had to double back and steal it, which they did successfully.

The point I'm making, though, is that with only a little effort on your part, you can supply them with items they would get as murderhobo loot simply by including it elsewhere. And if that doesn't work, as others have pointed out, have the loot be rewards for their good deeds from people who what to help and contribute to the cause or whatnot.

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I would want an updated Ultimate Equipment, or Ultimate Equipment 2.

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I'm GMing a game of Mummy's Mask, and it's a party of alchemists. They are all brothers named Tin, Rubidium, Cesium, Titanium, Nitrate, and Anaximander. The alchemists and element jokes go on for miles at our table.

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keftiu wrote:
It’s out for a few days: -of-Thousands#discuss

Awesome! Thank you!

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The maps in the AP are beautiful! I love how colorful they are!

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Hey! Does anyone know when the Strength of Thousands Player's Guide will be available?


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I'm all about traits. They're a nice small (but not insignificant) boosts to your character, which also helps explain a few things about them. I also like drawbacks because I think it adds some complexity to your character and provides a mechanical penalty to something from your backstory.

I have a character right now. He's a 17-year-old human spellscar oracle who has poor impulse control, and magic just goes haywire around him sometimes. He's for a custom campaign, and our GM told us to pick two traits. I chose Child of the Streets as he's almost always pickpocketing someone due to him and his brother surviving alone on the streets for the last seven years of his life. I also have Eye for the Wondrous. We fluff it that he just knows wonderous items when he sees them and knows what they are.

Both of these small bonuses have helped to drive the character many times.

I feel like if you have them, use them. I played a different game with a different player, and he had a drawback, which gave him a fear of open flames and a mechanical penalty around fire. He included the mechanical penalty when it applied. But he NEVER roleplayed the fear of fire. If he didn't tell us he had that drawback, I would have never known because he never played his character with that flaw. At least show concern when there's fire all around, and you need to move through it or straight up refuse to go near the fire. It adds some flair to your character.

However, I also agree that you shouldn't be limited to one trait for each type; sometimes, you want two combat traits or two faith traits.

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I'm the GM, and we're about to finish Book 2, and I'm excited for Shifting Sands.

I have a party of all alchemists (various archetypes to hit all the party niches). They're all playing brothers of the same family. This has posed some fun and interesting challenges. Many fights have been a breeze (because of bombs), and other fights have been challenges (also because of bombs). It's crazy, but we're all having fun.

What are some of the challenges you faced with Shifting Sands regarding encounters or situations in the book? Like the race, and the libraries and all that? Any good tips?


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In a homebrewed system I created (based on d20), I had a minor artifact that the party stumbled upon called the Ring of Bags. It was super lame, and I expected them to sell it, but they found it enjoyable and hung onto it.

All it did was when you slipped it on an empty non-magical bag of random material, size, and design would appear in your hand. When you let go of it, it remained, but a new one would poof into your hand. It was essentially infinite bags. They kept it, and any time they wanted or needed a bag or sack, they used the ring. It was not game-breaking, but kind of funny how much use they had for it.

Consequently, same game, same party, they found a creepy shop that they went into. The shopkeeper asked them if they wanted to buy an eyeball, and he kept hounding them about it. It was a human eyeball that was magically preserved. Just to get him to stop asking about it, one of them bought it. As soon as he left the shop, he threw it away (it only cost him 1 gold). An hour later, he found it again in his pocket. He tossed it away again, and it reappeared an hour later. He smashed it, the same thing. He tried giving it away, and it would be back in his pocket. He had it for most of the campaign before he figured out the trick. He had to SELL it to be able to get rid of it; then the eyeball would be someone else's problem.

That homebrew system was fun! Haha.

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I elaborate on death descriptions only for bosses, PCs, NPCs the PCs care about, and super cool moments, like an epic Nat 20 moment or when the player does something clever.

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Carrauntoohil wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
But as you can pass through an ally's space, crashes would be reduced substantially as long as you're on good terms with other road users.
No road user is on good terms with other road users. :D


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Carrauntoohil wrote:
It doesn't need to make sense, it's TTRPG ;p

Exactly! The OP isn't asking about all PF mechanics in the real world, they're asking about what are the real world consequences that would exist for PF mechanics. I wasn't thinking that all mechanics apply at the same time. I was isolating specific mechanics and trying to figure out what consequences there would be for them.

If ALL mechanics applied, it would just be an RPG, and this thread would be moot.

So my argument for teleport replacing most commercial air travel was just about teleport, not all PF's mechanics.

I don't think PF's WBL for players or NPCs would work in a real economy, so I didn't factor it in. I was factoring in mostly a real world-like economy, in which I still think if magical teleportation existed, commercial air travel would be less of a thing.

Besides, as a GM, I hardly ever look at the NPC WBL. An NPC is as wealthy as I need them to be for the situation. But I DO admit, @Carrauntoohil, that if WBL were a factor involved, yes, teleport would be much harder to pull off.

My whole argument makes some assumptions (Magical study leading to more accessible magic, real world economics, etc.). Still, in my opinion, real world teleportation would highly reduce the need for commercial air travel.

Carrauntoohil wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Suddenly I have this vision that the result of "Fix whatever is wrong inside this person" would depend very much upon point of view, so you'd better be REALLY careful about your choice of care provider.

:D :D :D

Weeeeeeeellll, quality of healthcare can be pretty variable even now. This just makes it even more fun.

Erastil: "This guy definitely needs antlers.

Bahahaha! I could SO see this happening! Depending on the hospital and the faith of the one healing you, all kinds of great stuff would happen! :-D God forbid you get a cleric of Lamashtu to heal you up that day.

This made my day!

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7-13 is what I was thinking as a good range. You have enough class abilities and cool equipment to be a heroic adventurer, but things can still be dangerous to you.

I'm not a fan of 1-2, I think 3 is fine. That's when you start getting the good stuff.

It's better than D&D 5e, I don't think you feel like a real character in 5e until about level 5 in my opinion. :-P

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My girlfriend accidentally created a feat.

It's an ability that activates when an argument initiates, summoning a monster as if using the summon monster spell.

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Snowball link for refrence.

There are two versions of this spell, a conjuration version, and an evocation version. They operate slightly differently, but since you're asking about the evocation version, that is what I'll address.

This is how I would interpret the rules if I were GMing this scenario.

Because the snowball spell is a magical effect, the "throw" part of it is fluff. I imagine it as the spellcaster forming the ball of snow into their hand and throwing it, but the magical energy guides it rather than the spellcaster's aim.

The spell does not state that you use the thrown weapons rules but does say it's a ranged touch attack, so it would follow those rules. So, like any other ranged spell, it is treated as a ranged attack and takes any penalties that apply. -4 if cast into melee (without precise shot), and -2 per 5' underwater.

I hope this helps.

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Dragon78 wrote:
KingGramJohnson, what was your version of mas combat like?

My major issue with mass combat (as written) is that it's a slog, and it's boring.  I did not have fun doing it as a player, and I did not enjoy running it as a GM.  Overall, I found it to be disappointing, so I altered Mass Combat to function in three parts:

Army vs. army
Party vs. captains/generals
Complete objectives

Army vs. Army

This functioned similarly to mass combat army builds, but with reduced rules so it's a simple three-round fight that takes an arbitrary about of time (depending on the situation).  This was a simple best two out of three.  This would determine how many casualties on a mass scale there were for one side or the other.

Party vs. Captains/Generals

I describe this part of my version of mass combat as while the armies are battling, we "zoom in" to where the PCs are in the heat of battle (but for simplicity reasons) unaffected by the army around them, and there they face down the leaders of the opposing armies.  I treat this like a boss battle.  There is the general(s) (the boss(es), and the captains (the powerful minions of the general(s)).  This is fought like any other straight fight like you would run in a dungeon boss room.

Complete Objectives

This part of my version of mass combat provides something else to accomplish while fighting the captains/generals.  The party is given several objectives that they need to complete to prevent the opposing army from advancing/breaching the city/gaining a foothold, etc.  There is often a time limit or some similar factor involved here.

For example, in one fight, while in the boss battle, the party may have five rounds to close the city gate's portcullis.  And while they fight, they need to try to save as many civilians as they can from dying (if too many die, it will count as a failure), depending on why the reason for the battle and the location, these objectives will change.

Like with the army vs. army part, mass combat is best two out of three.  So if the party defeats the bosses and their army wins but loses the objectives, they still "win" the mass combat.  

Admittedly, this is stacked in favor of the party, BUT I think that's okay for mass combat.  When we ran it this way, my players liked it a lot better.

It's not perfect, but it works for us, and it's a heck of a lot more fun than the RAW mass combat rules.  

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Carrauntoohil wrote:
Teleportation circle, even permanencied, is just such a work intensive way for a legendarily rare but incredibly powerful caster to make their money. They have far better options for filthy lucre.

See, I agree, it might not be the thing that makes a wizard the richest the fastest. However, not everyone works for money alone. Not all wizards do what they do for cash. Some people are driven by money, others are driven by doing what they love and/or trying to make the world a better place.

Maybe there are some wizards out there who are passionate about wanting to help people get to where they want to go.

I had a character in a game I ran, he was a high-level, SUPER powerful sorcerer who rocked in a fight. Do you know what he did for a living? He was a potato farmer and brewer of vodka. Of course, he partook in the adventure, but he wanted to make alcohol and share it with everyone.

Granted, that's a PC, but the same can be true of NPCs. It is not far from untrue to think that high-level spell casters might want a simple life or want to just do a job for people. Not everyone is looking to get filthy rich.

All that being said. I know that this goes against RAW, but if we're bringing magic into a real world setting, do you think it wouldn't grow or change at all? Do you think that there haven't been any magical breakthroughs since the Age of Darkness in Pathfinder's setting?

I truly believe that if magic existed in the real world, there would be advancement, like there is with science. Teleport and Teleportation Circle may become easier, cheaper, and more viable. Yes, these are assumptions here, but I think they're safe assumptions to make.

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Carrauntoohil wrote:

That is not Pathfinder mechanics and is not relevant to this discussion where both price and chance of error are RAW.

I've factored in cost and currency based on daily earnings. If you have a better suggestion, I'm open to it. But all we have to go on is RAW

I wasn't using RAW, fair enough.

But I still see it this way: what is the consequence of teleport being a thing? Less need for air travel as we understand it. Airlines may still exist, but would they look like ours? Maybe not. The rich would probably hire wizards rather than own private jets. Yes, maybe the average Joe won't have the money to teleport all the time, but it's still an option. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it wouldn't exist. There's plenty of things the average person can't afford to do. Teslas are a more energy-efficient car, but not everyone can afford one. Teleport is a more efficient way of traveling, but not everyone can afford that either.

All I'm really saying is that your argument does not debunk mine, though I do see how the cost might be more of a problem for most people.

Carrauntoohil wrote:
Layovers aren't really a thing for EU flights.

You would know about this more than I would; I'm not from the EU. Though the few times I traveled in the EU, I did experience layovers, so I factored it into my reasoning.

Carrauntoohil wrote:
The rules for hirelings and services note that a doctor makes 1GP/day. So the teleport is, at its cheapest (and assuming UCSummoner), still more than a year's salary for a well-paid professional. Lawyers make 10GP/day. Still over 10% of a year's salary to make a 1-way teleport. Whereas, minimum wage in Ireland is two-thirds of that flight cost in a day.

I was using a more real world money system with this because my argument was for teleporting to replace airlines as we know it, not the consequence of gold, silver, and copper as the standard for the world's economy in the real world (though that can be added to this list, it would make for some interesting upturns economically, and that would be a fun discussion).

Carrauntoohil wrote:

There's also the fact that you can directly go to where you need to be. Because we're assuming Pathfinder rules in the real modern world, I think it's plausible to believe those travel wizards would have many locations that they are "very familiar" with, and thus reducing the risk of teleport mishaps.

Correction: You can maybe go directly where you need to be. For what is still a much higher cost. 'Very familiar' is still a 3%...

True. I will admit that the 3% risk factor is still there. However, that's not a 3% chance of crashing; it's a 3% chance of getting lost. I would take those odds.

You're correct; I would never get on a plane if there were a 3% chance I would die. But the 3% chance for teleporting to a "very familiar" place is not death, but teleporting somewhere else. There is no mishap factor, so there's no damage risk. There is a 2% chance of arriving d% nearby and a 1% chance of being in a similar area.

In my argument for this, I mentioned that the wizards would use this as a service, so they would have prepped many teleports a day for this, they can try again.

I'm not saying it's foolproof. I'm just arguing that teleport as a magical reality would affect the real world's development of airplanes/airlines as a means of travel in some capacity.

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Carrauntoohil wrote:
KingGramJohnson wrote:
A lot of technologies would never be developed like they are today. Why would you need airplanes when you can pay wizards to teleport you around?

400GP for me to fly from Dublin (my closest airport) to Vienna (just under 1,000 miles - caster level x 100 miles for range) with a 3% failure rate doesn't seem great.

I can do that on a plane for €126 today with a much lower than 3% failure rate.

And that assumes we still allow chained summoner with early access to teleport and that the caster is 'very familiar', which requires it to eb somewhere they feel at home. Otherwise it goes up by 100GP.

So our flight is 4-5x the annual salary of a trained hireling or more than the annual salary of a doctor. Seems steep.

I see the point you're making, and from an economic standpoint, I might agree. However, that doesn't factor in the possibility that magic may become more reliable or cheaper in a modern world and the type of currency used, as we don't use gold coins in the real world.

However, aside from the economic factor, there are other things to consider, such as time. To use your example, a flight from Dublin to Vienna is approximately 3 hours, 4-5 if there's a short layover, which many flights have. That's fast, don't get me wrong, but it's not instantaneously fast. Time is a commodity I value; I will take a flight rather than drive if it means I can spend more time at my destination.

There's also the fact that you can directly go to where you need to be. Because we're assuming Pathfinder rules in the real modern world, I think it's plausible to believe those travel wizards would have many locations that they are "very familiar" with, and thus reducing the risk of teleport mishaps. Even if someone is paying a travel wizard to go somewhere more remote, they can get reasonably close. Heck, a person can bring them a picture of the place they want to go that's not a city or landmark and get there reasonably well (so long as nothing is interfering with the magic). Show me a commercial airport that can do that.

Unlike airports, with teleporting travel wizards, time of day and weather is not a factor. Wizards don't need to coordinate with other wizards with taking off and landing. There are no delays (which add more time to the trip), and cancelations are less likely.

Also, though air travel is very, very safe, it's not without risk either. At least with teleport, if something goes wrong, you end up in the wrong spot, and I guess that most wizards will have many uses of teleport a day to try again (at no extra cost to the paying customer, because that's only fair). Some of the wizards might even use greater teleport so that there's no range limit.

The TL;DR of this is: Money isn't the only factor to a worldwide wizard traveling agency possibly being better than modern air travel.

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I could see/attack anyone regardless of which direction I'm looking in because, in Pathfinder, facing isn't a thing.

Atheism would become nonexistent or less prevalent, as there is tangible evidence of multiple gods, only some used to be mortal.

A lot of technologies would never be developed like they are today. Why would you need airplanes when you can pay wizards to teleport you around?

The idea of "leveling up" in the real world would be so odd. You wake up one morning suddenly feeling healthier, powerful, and magical than you were yesterday. Oh, and now you know how to use a katana because you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency, even though you never even touched one a day in your life.

You can tell who is good and evil by just casting a tiny spell and looking around. I can see that having a lot of real-world problems.

You would reach terminal velocity after falling only 200 feet, much more survivable.

Armies would be under Mass Combat rules...may God have mercy on all involved!

But the biggest real-world consequence: ALL sea voyages would become super dangerous!

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Dragon78 wrote:
I did enjoy Kingmaker, though still not a fan of the mass combat stuff.

I highly disliked mass combat when I played through Kingmaker, so I altered the way it worked when I had GMed it.

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Some of my favorite APs are Kingmaker, Rise of the Runelords, and Mummy's Mask.

I've never played any of the published modules.

I ran a homebrew campaign that I wrote myself (inspired by some of my own ideas mixed with some ideas I found here on Paizo's forums) called "The Godkiller". It dealt with the question of what happened to Aroden. It was well-liked by the people I ran it for.

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I really want to use this! What a great idea!

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dterror wrote:
I know this is a fairly significant thread necro...but I'm curious about further developments now that there has been 7 or 8 months worth of gaming to develop them.

I'm sorry, I didn't see this until just now. Thank you for the curiosity about it. We finished that homebrewed campaign just before Christmas of 2019. We intended on taking a break for the holidays and starting an AP. But shortly before COIVID-19, one of the players bowed out, and we decided to end the group for the time being (I have another group I play with, so it wasn't that bad for me.)

The campaign ended well. One of the corrupted time traveler players had to leave the group due to school scheduling conflicts, but the others who remained had to deal with the corruption for the remainder of the campaign. They did eventually hire their guide and made it through the Underdark to the Vaults of Orv, and found what they were looking for, freeing a slave along the way.

They were able to make it to the antagonist godess realm and defeat her (imprisoning her in a prison similar to Rovagug's). They were working with other gods to accomplish this goal (this was a divine quest).

They succeeded and were highly blessed by the gods, and received boons and the removal of their corruptions, and were granted the blessing of being offered heroldship when they died if they desired it.

Overall it was a fun campaign, and the players enjoyed it, including the way it all ended.

It's funny how a random encounter with a dragon would alter their plans so much, but it did. They felt the weight of that for the rest of the campaign.

Thank you for asking. :-D

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One time, I was GMing for a party and they had made a horrible mistake by going into a dragon's lair and trying to kill it for its hoard. They gave it a good try. They did not "win", but they did plan things out well enough to hurt the dragon enough for it to run off, and a party member died. They realized that now they had an angry Red Dragon who knew who they were, and would heal up and hunt them.

They decided (against the advice of the GM), that the best way to fix it would be to take the money from the hoard and pay for a wish to travel back in time. They visited this wizard acquaintance they had and asked him to send them back in time so they could avoid the dragon.

I used this wizard NPC as an opportunity to once again advise them NOT to mess with time. The wizard told them that it was possible but dangerous, ill-advised, and could change them. They decided to do it anyway.

So, the wizard granted them their wish. But now they had Aeons angry at them (possibly worse than a dragon), and they had been corrupted, and that affected them and lasted for the rest of the campaign. They highly regretted it.

I say all that to say this: maybe the demon corrupts them with the wish. So, maybe the wish itself is fine, but it messes with the receiver's mind, body, or soul. Just an idea. Check out the corruptions, they're neat, have some upsides, but some harsh downsides.

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Thank you. You've given me options to think about for level 7 and for the future. Thank you!

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So, have a human character who is about to become a 7th level Spellscar Oracle. I won't go into the whole build, but when you need to know is that I am building this character to control chaos. Magic breaks down around him and goes wild. I need a feat to pick up at level 7 that can fit into this idea, but it's been a long day and my brain is mush.

Here is what my character already has:

- Extra Revelation
- Deft Hands
- Improved Initiative
- Spell Penetration


- Eldritch Bolt
- Mystic Null
- Primal Mastery
- And at level 7 I will be picking up Eldritch Scar

Also if it helps, my character is also a con-artist and pickpocket with poor impulse control. He's a blast to play. The setting is custom, and the GM will sometimes have magic go haywire around me.

I could use my feat to get another extra revelation. But I want to see if there's a better feat out there for causing wild magic, controlling wild magic, or protecting against wild magic.

I've looked around the feats section, but there is so much there.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Thank you in advance.

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Thank you!

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@drsparnum or @Warped Savant - Where can I find the thread about the 50 round hold the line encounter? That sounds great, but I can't seem to find the thread. Do you have a link to it? Thank you!

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Thank you very much for the advice! I will take that to heart.

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My group just finished Kingmaker (which ended with a TPK in book 6), and we are planning on starting Mummy's Mask in two weeks.

I'm reading through the books to prepare, but I wanted to come here and ask this awesome community if you have any tips or advice for GMing this AP?

Thanks in advance!

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Ryze Kuja wrote:
Never. Hand out TPK's like Oprah hands out free cars.

You get a TPK, and YOU get a TPK! EVERYONE GETS A TPK!!!!! *Audience goes nuts*

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I knew something was off about it when it was happening, I thought to myself, this shouldn't be possible, but I wanted mass combat over with as quickly as I can, and that GM was not the type to take criticism well, no matter how kindly it was presented. I'm glad they're not with us anymore.

I just found it to be less enjoyable, and the other players told me the same thing. Just not a fan of the system.

Maybe if I had another go at it with a GM who gets it right, I would consider trying it again, but for now, I'm happy to just not use it, or use my alternate version of it as stated above. :-)

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Lady Asharah wrote:
While the system isn't exactly super polished... I'm wondering how a single level 12 Paladin defeated 50 Adult Red Dragons.

You're not wrong on your math. However, the character had a lot of cool items at his disposal and was capable of constant flight. There were a few other factors that came into play, including home field advantage, enhanced weapons and armor, and a few other things. He also fought them over two days, not one (so two battles). It may be that my GM wasn't doing something right.


Okay, I stopped typing and went to the book and looked it up. My GM at the time (not the brightest of people, mind you), ran me against an army of wyverns and told me it was adult dragons! Or changed them to dragons without understanding the conversion properly (the latter is more likely). So yes, it was likely done wrong the whole time. Disappointing!

That doesn't change the fact that me, and everyone else involved found Mass Combat to not be fun and a slog either way. I still think it's a bad system.

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I love Pathfinder, but in my opinion, Mass Combat is a garbage system. It's confusing, it's not fun, it's tedious, and it takes forever. I knew something was horribly broken with the system when I built a one-man army of a level 12 Paladin (which is allowed in the rules), and he defeated an army of 50 adult red dragons single handedly.

Now, when I do mass combat, I do it a little differently.

First the PCs build an army similar to mass combat rules, but I keep it a little more simple. I have their army face the opposing army for three rounds (best 2 out of 3 wins). And "while that fight is happening", the action is zoomed in on the PCs who have to fight the generals and captains of the opposing army (played like any normal combat). I also include a goal of some kind that has to be completed before or during the battle with the generals and captains, e.g. lower the gates, light the beacons, prevent too many buildings from being destroyed, rescue X number of people.

After all of that is done, we look at the battle as a whole, and how much the PCs accomplished.

Did the army defeat the enemy's army (win 2 out of 3)?
Did the PCs defeat the generals and captains?
Did the PCs complete their goal?

If the PCs can answer yes to any 2 of 3 of those criteria, they win that mass combat encounter.

My players like it a lot better than Kingmaker or UM's Mass Combat rules, and it's been more fun for them and myself.

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Ryze Kuja wrote:

Whenever I buy dice I save the plastic cases because they're perfect "out-in-the-open" stands for characters who are flying (or in your case, climbing). I also have some flat little numbered icons ranging from 1-20 that I place on them to denote how many feet they're up. If they're flying at 400ft, I put two 20's on them, if they're flying at 80ft, I put one 8 on it, etc.

In your case, if they're descending into a dark abyss and you don't want them to know their elevation, just don't put a numbered icon on it and write their elevation down on your notepad :)

I save those cases too, for the same reason. That's a good idea with the tokens. I'm proud of the vertical map I made (see above), and my players loved it as well. I wanted to do something different.

The PCs knew how deep the pit was, as they have a guide they hired to lead them to and through the Underdark, and she told them roughly how far down it was.

Overall, it was a good time.

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Hello everyone! I wanted to submit an update. I was able to make a baller map, and my players were surprised and enjoyed the encounter on it. Because you all helped me with ideas on how to make it for cheap, I wanted to share the final result.

This is the map I made.


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blahpers wrote:
KingGramJohnson wrote:
Bonus fact: I know a guy who washes his dice before every session.
I mean, dice are probably pretty nasty. I'd hate to see a swab test of the numeral engravings after a year of steady use.

True that.

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Those are both really great ideas. Thank you!

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I need some quick advice. I have a session this coming Monday (10/14/19), and in the adventure I have the party about to enter and climb down the massive pit. There will be an encounter inside the pit as they descend. I would like to alter the battle map to be upright and vertical instead of flat and horizontal on the table. Similar to this picture.

I thought of this pretty late, and I have a very small budget to buy all kinds of cool stuff to make something like that (I have the map already).

What can I use (on a limited or no budget) to get a similar effect, rocky platforms and stuff like that? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

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I also hate it when people just touch my dice. I don't mind them borrowing them if they ask. And so help me if they roll my d20 without permission!

As for other RPG quirks I have:

Before the game starts (both as a player and as a GM), I roll my d20 once (and only once) to "fire it up".

I tend to always roll bad on initiative regardless of character build or what my initiative bonus actually is. Occasionally I'll roll well on initiative and I'm surprised. Funny enough, this does not apply when I GM. I tend to roll well for the enemies' initiatives.

I don't HAVE to play with a complete set of matching dice...but I prefer it.

My GM dice usually have to be black, and I dare not use them as a player, bad things happen when I do.

I use a notebook when I play and I record my HP, money, and daily powers and abilities/spell slots on there so this way I don't have to wear my character sheet out. I'll update the character sheet itself at the end of the session on some things, and on other things I wait for a level up. I try to encourage others to do this as much as I can, but a lot of people I play with don't care enough. I like my character sheets to stay readable!

Bonus fact: I know a guy who washes his dice before every session.

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Thank you very much!

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