Playing an Oozemorph: The mega(slimy) thread.


Advice

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It actually sort of feels like the Oozemorph is one of the more functional shifters around like level 6 or so since you don't have any reason to end your wild shape early, because you have no mechanical incentive to revert to your base form, unlike the normal shifter who might feel the need to cut Wild Shape short because they, for example, need to hold a conversation. So once you hit level 6 you can assume humanoid form for 6 hours three times (suffering 18 minutes of fatigue in there somewhere) and since everybody needs an 8 hour rest anyway, your whole adventuring day is taken care of.

Past level 6, you can even shift from small to medium or to gain other senses or forms of movement more often since your uses of wild shape increment much faster than the vanilla shifter.

It's just that those first five levels might be rough, but I'm interested in playing one if I have to replace a newly deceased level 6 character.


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1. Oozemorph does not gain the ooze type. It is merely treated as having both types for the purposes of interacting with abilities.

2. You gain nothing from the ooze type because you didn't gain the ooze type.

3. If you become an undefined ooze and lose racial abilities, you lose the ability to breathe, and still have to breathe because your actual type is still your original race for purposes of what you can do. Thus you die upon taking a single level of Oozemorph. OR The ability merely alters your base form.

4. Per polymorph rules, when magic items meld into you, they can still work and they are not being held or worn. The dev commented on his intent and mentioned that that language was removed. We can only assume the language was removed on purpose because an editor knows that you have to have magic items at higher levels to even function.

5. Weapon and armor prof are replaced. The nonmetal restriction is lost with the Oozemorph.

6. You lose DR when wearing metal armor. Fine. My oozemorph will still be in fullplate and enjoy sweet DR when in Oozeform or a form without armor.


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Rhedyn wrote:

...

3. If you become an undefined ooze and lose racial abilities, you lose the ability to breathe, and still have to breathe because your actual type is still your original race for purposes of what you can do. Thus you die upon taking a single level of Oozemorph. OR The ability merely alters your base form.
...

You wouldn't lose the ability to breathe because you do not gain the ooze type. However, the text says it is treated as a polymorph effect

Which can lead to two main interpretations. The first one as I understand it, is that the ability is entirely a polymorph effect, so all polymorph rules apply. Such as this
polymorph wrote:
In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume.
and this
Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed.

These show that you keep normal sight (it is not an Ex or Su ability, nor would its loss be a benefit) but your move speed is explicitly lost and replaced with an unknown move speed. Which the GM would have to determine and would cause table variation, a debilitating thing in outlets like PFS or online gaming, or groups with many GMs

Alternatively, if the effect is only treated as a polymorph effect, it doesn't inherently follow those rules. Which means that all modifications are specified in the ability, so you still have all normal abilities except for those prohibited by Fluid Form (such as speech, or item manipulation), which also has some errors. Like the idea that a strix ooze can fly while a merfolk ooze has a 5ft speed while a quickling ooze has a 120ft speed.

One thematic justification for the base speeds being different is the idea that not all oozemorphs have the same substance. The ooze of a fast creature is probably less viscous than that of a slow one. Of course, for fly speeds all I have is This.. But this is just an attempt to justify lore.

Or there is a middle ground that hasn't been clearly explained because it was difficult to fit into the word count and the polymorph rules are confusing. And thus this gray area should be addressed by an FAQ. I'm betting on this third option.

Full polymorph description in CRB:
Quote:

A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.


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Rhedyn wrote:
4. Per polymorph rules, when magic items meld into you, they can still work and they are not being held or worn. The dev commented on his intent and mentioned that that language was removed. We can only assume the language was removed on purpose because an editor knows that you have to have magic items at higher levels to even function.

The dev also specified that melded gear is intended to be nonfunctional in ooze form.

here

Robert Brookes wrote:
Worth noting—and I don't see it in the final text—I'd intended for gear to meld with the oozemorph's form when in fluidic form (rather than floating helplessly on their oozy body or however that would look). The melded gear is still non-functional, however. That's definitely worth a FAQ click.

Granted, by the time you're able to afford magic items, you probably won't be worrying about being caught with in fluid form.


Well here is a question
it is super expensive

but you could. in humanoid form, get ioun stones implanted no?
not exactly... cost efficient... but I think that'd still work no?
because it melds with you, is constant "on", does not take up item slots, and does not require being held?

also. would a slotless versions of items work?
kind of the same vein as the tattoo magic items.


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Don't know if it's been brought up but do you know what I find confusing... Why does it use Beast Shape and not the very spell introduced in this book, Ooze Form?! Spell's not great but it's far more fitting...

Silver Crusade

More than likely because the spell was made independently of the archetype.


.. Alright, looks like I need to spend some time breaking this archtype.

Break train, awaaaaaay!


Made this in like 30 minutes

a loose setup:

Human

Traits-
Cautious fighter

Level 1-
Unchained monk 1

Feats-
Improved unarmed, stunning fist, dodge, crane style, toughness/weapon finesse

Ac = 10+5+ dex +wis/cha

Oozemorph 3

Feats-
Draconic defender/extra item slot

Unbreakable fighter 1-

Feats-
Stalwart, diehard, endurance

At first level your AC is Probobly quite good, expecally if you have a decent dex.
Goes up by 1 wih 3 acrobatics ranks.
You do have to take a -2 to hit to get it.

At 2nd level, you have 2 natural weapons and 1 unarmed strike, all at full bab.

If using dex, use weapon finesse and extra item slot to abuse an agile amulet of mighty fists.

If not, give allies a +5 natural armor bouns to ac. Nice either way.

At 5th level, you can use stalwart whenever your foe isn't using a slashing weapon, or is using a weak slashing weapon, resulting in a DR of 9/slashing and 5/-. When using a hard hitting slashing weapon, use regular fighting defensively for the +5 to ac.

No crits or precision damage makes it hard to bypass dr.

So, a loose idea of how to make it work.


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Josh-o-Lantern wrote:
Don't know if it's been brought up but do you know what I find confusing... Why does it use Beast Shape and not the very spell introduced in this book, Ooze Form?! Spell's not great but it's far more fitting...
Rysky wrote:
More than likely because the spell was made independently of the archetype.

Development fail.


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The interpretation that oozemorphs gain an undefined form with undefined abilities is wrong because the abilities are then undefined. Full stop. All other rules text is irrelevant.

Rules can be read such that abilities are useless, underpowered, overpowered, ect.

Rules cannot be read such that they generate an error. The functional reading of the rules must be assumed to be correct until more information is posted.

That means Fluidic form alters your base race form as per what the ability says. This is consistent with the shifter itself, most major forms do not gain a base speed and many of them only get the natural attacks provided from shifter claws. Oozemorph is allowed to use the "alter base form" language that shifter does.

Or are you saying now that most shifter major forms also give undefined movespeeds because shifter doesn't let you gain the form abilities not listed in the class AND polymorph general rules remove your base move speed? ASIDE: shifter owls can't fly pffffffff


Rhedyn wrote:
The interpretation that oozemorphs gain an undefined form with undefined abilities is wrong because the abilities are then undefined. Full stop. All other rules text is irrelevant.

Cool, you're up to speed on the issues. Well except the wrong part.

Rhedyn wrote:
Rules can be read such that abilities are useless, underpowered, overpowered, ect.

In this case, there is only one read and it leaves you with undefined. There IS no other read that follows the existing rules. This isn't a case of 2 reads with different outcomes but one read and a houserule.

Rhedyn wrote:
Rules cannot be read such that they generate an error. The functional reading of the rules must be assumed to be correct until more information is posted.

Yes they can or we wouldn't have errata/FAQ's. You can't go in assuming that something MUST be correct: errors happen.

Rhedyn wrote:
That means Fluidic form alters your base race form as per what the ability says. This is consistent with the shifter itself, most major forms do not gain a base speed and many of them only get the natural attacks provided from shifter claws. Oozemorph is allowed to use the "alter base form" language that shifter does.

Polymorph rules disagree: your old form doesn't effect your new forms land speed. Shifter's major forms work as beast shape "beast shape II, except as noted here". Land speed isn't a listed exception for the Oozemorph, ergo undefined.

Rhedyn wrote:
Or are you saying now that most shifter major forms also give undefined movespeeds because shifter doesn't let you gain the form abilities not listed in the class AND polymorph general rules remove your base move speed? ASIDE: shifter owls can't fly pffffffff

"beast shape II, except as noted here": There would NEED to be a listed exception for the oozemorph to retain speed...


You are free to be wrong.

There is a specific over general way to read the rules such that it doesn't create an error. You are choosing to read the rules such that they produce an error. It's non starter argument. You don't have a side. Your interpretation does not function. It prevents the game from continuing and just produces errors. That's not just a misinterpretation, it's obtuse.


just because a operation produces an error doesnt mean the calculator is wrong. it means someone put nonworkable stuff into it.

so no, the "interpretation"(actually ridiculously stringent application of the actual rules) is not wrong, the rules just didnt get a functional input.


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Rhedyn wrote:
There is a specific over general way to read the rules such that it doesn't create an error.

Please cite the specific rule that allows the oozemorph to retain its speed unlike the general rule for polymorph.

Rhedyn wrote:
You are choosing to read the rules such that they produce an error.

I'm not choosing to do anything other than read the archetype and apply the relevant rules. It's not my fault they combine to make an undefined rules element.

Rhedyn wrote:
It's non starter argument.

I agree, that's why it needs fixed/errata'd/FAQ'd.

Rhedyn wrote:
That's not just a misinterpretation, it's obtuse.

It's how it's written. You're going to have to deal with that fact. You have to read into/add to the rules to get to your 'interpretation'/houserule. Mine actually has rules to back it up. Please, backup YOUR point of view with actual rules quotes instead of going on about breathing or "because it produces errors". Actual rules text.


So one thing I'm not sure about is "how is the Oozemorph supposed to fight".

The one thing that comes to mind is "make oodles of attacks". So something like an Agile AoMF, Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Two-Weapon Fighting on a level 6 Oozemorph with 20 dex would attack for

+9/+9/+4/+4/+4/+4 for 1d3+5/1d3+5/1d3+5/d6+5/d6+5/d6+5.

Is that good? I'm not sure. Unlike your unarchetyped Shifter Pals you don't get Pounce, though I guess you could dip monk and try to get Pummelling Charge (do natural attacks "count" as unarmed attacks for pummeling style? I thought this class was supposed to be simple.)


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Rhedyn wrote:

You are free to be wrong.

There is a specific over general way to read the rules such that it doesn't create an error. You are choosing to read the rules such that they produce an error. It's non starter argument. You don't have a side. Your interpretation does not function. It prevents the game from continuing and just produces errors. That's not just a misinterpretation, it's obtuse.

If I may bring math into the equation? [color=White]I am not sorry for that pun.[/color]

Let's say you're trying to find what the equation x^2/x is equal to when x=0. Simply plugging that into a calculator will give you an error message, because the value 0/0 is undefined- it doesn't exist. That's not a problem with the calculator. That's a problem with the fundamental question. You cannot divide zero by zero. It's just not possible.

However, if you look at the equation when it's close to x=0 (you take the limit), you find the equation is really close to equaling 0, so you could say it equals zero, and that is a "valid" answer.

But... it isn't. It's still undefined. But there is a way to interpret the question in a way that gives out a valid answer. It's just incorrect. At the point in question, there is no answer.

What you're doing is taking the limit, which does put out an answer- it just isn't the correct one by answering the question asked. So saying "there is a way to interpret it that doesn't produce an error" isn't really saying anything. It just means if you ignore the specific point in favor of finding an answer, you get an incorrect answer.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I thought this class was supposed to be simple.

Yep, the 'simple' shapeshifter ends up being more complicated than 'normal' wildshaping by adding a new book to look at for exceptions along with the spell and the bestiary entry.

As to pummeling style, I don't think so but Feral Combat Training and/or Ascetic Style might let it work.


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Dαedαlus wrote:
So saying "there is a way to interpret it that doesn't produce an error" isn't really saying anything. It just means if you ignore the specific point in favor of finding an answer, you get an incorrect answer.

The math analogy doesn't work all that well though because language is inherently flexible. There are intrepretations and multiple ways to read many given sentences. There are entire categories of literature and phrasing built around that premise.

So you're not taking a clearly defined equation and finding an error in it. You're taking words and intentionally favoring a reading of those words that produces broken results over an equally valid interpretation that does work.

That's most certainly a problem with the calculator, to borrow your own phrasing.


graystone wrote:
As to pummeling style, I don't think so but Feral Combat Training and/or Ascetic Style might let it work.

So to get Feral Combat Training to work, what do you take Weapon Focus in? Is Weapon Focus (Morphic Weapons) a valid choice? It's not like taking WF for a bite or claws since your Morphic weapons can look like anything you want to describe them as. The art in the book suggests a morningstar is possible, so you can manifest your oozy weapons as pretty much anything.

I don't think Ascetic Style works since "Morphic Weapons" is probably not in the monk weapon fighter group.

Feels like the Oozemorph is going to want a lot of feats it doesn't get. at least you're spared the need to take Wild Speech like the vanilla shifter since post level 5 you're going to be humanoid all the time. So you're up one!


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I think more importantly the fact that all 'formed weapons' are extensions of the body, they should be considered either 'close' weapons or 'improved unarmed strike'?


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Squiggit wrote:
Dαedαlus wrote:
So saying "there is a way to interpret it that doesn't produce an error" isn't really saying anything. It just means if you ignore the specific point in favor of finding an answer, you get an incorrect answer.

The math analogy doesn't work all that well though because language is inherently flexible. There are interpretations and multiple ways to read many given sentences. There are entire categories of literature and phrasing built around that premise.

So you're not taking a clearly defined equation and finding an error in it. You're taking words and intentionally favoring a reading of those words that produces broken results over an equally valid interpretation that does work.

That's most certainly a problem with the calculator, to borrow your own phrasing.

The thing is though, normally the equation works just fine. For any value except for x=0, the equation works just fine, and is equal to x. However, there is a place where you'll get an error, through no fault of the calculator. You just can't divide 0/0, so you get an error.

For Polymorph, it's the same way. It normally works just fine, no issues whatsoever. It, too, is a clearly defined rule. However, the oozemorph is the equivalent of finding that single point that produces an error. In any other situation, the polymorph rules work just fine. But when you plug in a nonexistent base speed, then you get an error message.

x=0 and x^2/x are both fine on their own, which is virtually all of the time. However, in the one single point where they intersect, that's where you get an error.

Polymorph rules work just fine on their own. And, for everything except base speed, the oozemorph works as well. But, in the point that they intersect, you get an error.

I stand by my analogy.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
So to get Feral Combat Training to work, what do you take Weapon Focus in?

I'm hoping (Morphic Weapons) becomes/is defined as its own kind of weapon and becomes a valid choice for weapon feats. It's just another question to toss unto the pile. ;)

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I don't think Ascetic Style works since "Morphic Weapons" is probably not in the monk weapon fighter group.

Feral Combat Training would make it a monk weapon: granted that requires '5th-level monk' or 'weapon training (monk) class feature' so it's a LOT of hoops to jump through.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

So one thing I'm not sure about is "how is the Oozemorph supposed to fight".

The one thing that comes to mind is "make oodles of attacks". So something like an Agile AoMF, Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Two-Weapon Fighting on a level 6 Oozemorph with 20 dex would attack for

+9/+9/+4/+4/+4/+4 for 1d3+5/1d3+5/1d3+5/d6+5/d6+5/d6+5.

Is that good? I'm not sure. Unlike your unarchetyped Shifter Pals you don't get Pounce, though I guess you could dip monk and try to get Pummelling Charge (do natural attacks "count" as unarmed attacks for pummeling style? I thought this class was supposed to be simple.)

My suggestion is pretend to be barbarian, using a two handed weapon (especially if you get a good racial wpn prof ; 1/2 orc Great Axe proficiency for example), and all your morphic weapon attacks as secondary. Get Multiattack as a feat at 6th, and it looks pretty good.


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I don't know why people feel that the polymorph general rules are written out in Fluidic Body. They aren't there and can't be treated as specific rules. They are general rules. The only functional interpretation of the rules has portions of the general rules be overwritten. Which is how Pathfinder normally works.

You guys are just doing bad rules lawyering to be more upset than you should be. You are having general rules override a specific ability to cause an error. It's just not what you are supposed to do.


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Rhedyn wrote:

I don't know why people feel that the polymorph general rules are written out in Fluidic Body. They aren't there and can't be treated as specific rules. They are general rules. The only functional interpretation of the rules has portions of the general rules be overwritten. Which is how Pathfinder normally works.

You guys are just doing bad rules lawyering to be more upset than you should be. You are having general rules override a specific ability to cause an error. It's just not what you are supposed to do.

If that's the case, what is the specific ability that overrides the general? There actually needs to be a specific rule present for it to take precedence over general.


Dαedαlus wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

I don't know why people feel that the polymorph general rules are written out in Fluidic Body. They aren't there and can't be treated as specific rules. They are general rules. The only functional interpretation of the rules has portions of the general rules be overwritten. Which is how Pathfinder normally works.

You guys are just doing bad rules lawyering to be more upset than you should be. You are having general rules override a specific ability to cause an error. It's just not what you are supposed to do.

If that's the case, what is the specific ability that overrides the general? There actually needs to be a specific rule present for it to take precedence over general.

The ability does not say it alters move speed or indicates how it would. You are applying a general rule that it must do that. It doesn't. That specific overrides the general requirement.

General rules cannot tell an ability it has to do something.


Rhedyn wrote:
Dαedαlus wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

I don't know why people feel that the polymorph general rules are written out in Fluidic Body. They aren't there and can't be treated as specific rules. They are general rules. The only functional interpretation of the rules has portions of the general rules be overwritten. Which is how Pathfinder normally works.

You guys are just doing bad rules lawyering to be more upset than you should be. You are having general rules override a specific ability to cause an error. It's just not what you are supposed to do.

If that's the case, what is the specific ability that overrides the general? There actually needs to be a specific rule present for it to take precedence over general.

The ability does not say it alters move speed or indicates how it would. You are applying a general rule that it must do that. It doesn't. That specific overrides the general requirement.

General rules cannot tell an ability it has to do something.

The fact you need a hand free to cast Somatic spells is a general rule. By this logic, that rule cannot tell a spellcaster they need a hand free to cast a somatic spell, because that would be telling an ability what to do.

We have general rules to tell us what to do by default, so they don't have to repeat "you need at least one free hand to cast this spell" in every single spell they publish. Rather, they just denote that a spell has somatic components, and you can look up the relevant rule from there.


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That's not equivalent. Your argument is like a dragon being unable to cast their spells because they have claws not hands.


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So you're saying that the unequivocal lack of a specific clause is the specific clause that denies the general rules from applying?

AKA the Ancient Aliens argument?


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Rhedyn wrote:
That's not equivalent. Your argument is like a dragon being unable to cast their spells because they have claws not hands.

HOW is it not equivalent? I am citing a general rule that generally holds true, and you say something completely different. Let me ask you something: if a general rule never holds true (or when does it hold true, if it never applies to abilities?), what does it do? When do general rules hold true, if not in a general example?


Dαedαlus wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
That's not equivalent. Your argument is like a dragon being unable to cast their spells because they have claws not hands.
HOW is it not equivalent? I am citing a general rule that generally holds true, and you say something completely different. Let me ask you something: if a general rule never holds true (or when does it hold true, if it never applies to abilities?), what does it do? When do general rules hold true, if not in a general example?

Can dragons cast sorcerer spells?

They don't have hands. The dragon generals rules do not give them hands or say they can ignore the hand requirement. The dragon type does not help then either.

By your logic, dragons can't cast sorcerer spells that they get.

Grand Lodge

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The great thing about this being a game with a ruleset is that we can all see and prove that you're objectively wrong :)


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Rhedyn wrote:
Dαedαlus wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
That's not equivalent. Your argument is like a dragon being unable to cast their spells because they have claws not hands.
HOW is it not equivalent? I am citing a general rule that generally holds true, and you say something completely different. Let me ask you something: if a general rule never holds true (or when does it hold true, if it never applies to abilities?), what does it do? When do general rules hold true, if not in a general example?

Can dragons cast sorcerer spells?

They don't have hands. The dragon generals rules do not give them hands or say they can ignore the hand requirement. The dragon type does not help then either.

By your logic, dragons can't cast sorcerer spells that they get.

*sigh*

PRD Magic Section wrote:

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

....
and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon.
...
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

So, beyond the fact that the rules explicitly say that dragons can cast spells, the fact their monster entry says that dragons "cast spells as a sorcerer" could be easily taken as a rule that dragons can cast spells. Besides, claws (on dragons, especially) can function as hands, so...


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Surely the Dragons specific clause is the one which says they can cast spells as a sorcerer. There is no equivalent saying the Ooze Morph moves as it’s previous form would.


About Morphic Weaponry, the first question to be answered/cleared in a FAQ is: it's that class feature a natural weapon itself or do an oozemorph choose a specific natural weapon (bite, gore, claw etc) each time?

Concrete example: a character with an oozemorph level wants to take weapon focus feat to benefit with natural weapon of Morphic Weaponry.
Does she apply it like this " Weapon Focus (morphic weaponry" or this Weapon Focus (bite/claw/gore) and then forms a "bite/claw/gore" with morphic weaponry feature to get the +1 to attack roll?

Same to weapon focus goes for Weapon Training of fighter class feature. If it's the latter interpretation then a fighter oozemorph can get +1 to attack and adamage rolls of morphic weaponry if she chooses the Natural group

Grand Lodge

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Has anyone bothered to jump over to the rules forum and do a faq request for this nonsense?

Grand Lodge

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They're aware of it. Mark Seifter mentioned the oozemorph as being on the list for Ultimate Wilderness FAQs in the product thread. Though starting it's own FAQ thread (just for the love of god don't put FAQ REQUEST in the title) certainly isn't a bad idea.

Grand Lodge

I know they are aware of it, I was just wondering if making a rules thread for it instead of an advice thread might bump up the priority in answering it.

They sure didn't take long to post a FAQ about nerfing the one shifter ability.


What did they nerf?


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

What did they nerf?

Shifter's edge feat: you use dex to hit, str for damage and add 1/2 shifter level now.

Grand Lodge

I forget the name of it, the dex to damage thing that was giving +1 per shifter level...they nerfed it to +1 per 2 levels

Yea, that


Slyme wrote:

I know they are aware of it, I was just wondering if making a rules thread for it instead of an advice thread might bump up the priority in answering it.

They sure didn't take long to post a FAQ about nerfing the one shifter ability.

That was a quick fix.....many of the other fixes needed are far more complicated, and are going to take a lot more time to look at and figure out what needs to be done ;)


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On the one hand I can see why, Dex shifter is so much better than strength shifter it’s not even funny
But on the other hand you’d think a little bit of common sense would suggest given the general discontent at the current shifter making things worse before you make them better isn’t the best move.


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nighttree wrote:
Slyme wrote:

I know they are aware of it, I was just wondering if making a rules thread for it instead of an advice thread might bump up the priority in answering it.

They sure didn't take long to post a FAQ about nerfing the one shifter ability.

That was a quick fix.....many of the other fixes needed are far more complicated, and are going to take a lot more time to look at and figure out what needs to be done ;)

I'm not sure I'd call it a fix, more of a unnecessary nerfing... Seriously, yeah, it was extremely strong as a feat, but Shifters pretty clearly need something.


pad300 wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Slyme wrote:

I know they are aware of it, I was just wondering if making a rules thread for it instead of an advice thread might bump up the priority in answering it.

They sure didn't take long to post a FAQ about nerfing the one shifter ability.

That was a quick fix.....many of the other fixes needed are far more complicated, and are going to take a lot more time to look at and figure out what needs to be done ;)
I'm not sure I'd call it a fix, more of a unnecessary nerfing... Seriously, yeah, it was extremely strong as a feat, but Shifters pretty clearly need something.

Shifter might need something but that feat did need addressing too... good feat in the hands of Shifter... GREAT feat in the hands of the Warpriest Archetype!


I just don't see why Shifter's edge was different from Lethal Grace to begin with. A TWF finesse vigilante can stack scary static modifiers to damage, and the shifter (appropriately wild shaped) can make even more attacks at lower levels.

Designer

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I just don't see why Shifter's edge was different from Lethal Grace to begin with. A TWF finesse vigilante can stack scary static modifiers to damage, and the shifter (appropriately wild shaped) can make even more attacks at lower levels.

That's the weird thing. It wasn't different from Lethal Grace to begin with. Something weird must have happened. This is why we had the FAQ ready before the book was even out to subscribers yet.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Gremlins.

Ooze gremlins.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

Grand Lodge

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Witness an Oozemorph in action

:)

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