Playing an Oozemorph: The mega(slimy) thread.


Advice

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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
It's also not specified *which* Ooze it is supposed to be modeled after. Is it a baby Gelatinous Cube? Is it grey? Is it the one that makes people have emotional issues?

Player's choice.


Except they still revert to an ooze when they sleep... So they would have to never sleep to maintain the use of attuned items.


J4RH34D wrote:
Except they still revert to an ooze when they sleep... So they would have to never sleep to maintain the use of attuned items.

Hey, that means the plant races actually would make a good Shifter! Or wyrwoods.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

*scratches chin*

Wasn't there a post somewhere from a Dev/designer that for things like this you don't have to actually wear it for a full 24 hours, you just have to keep it in your immediate proximity (so that you can do stuff like bathe)?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It was for PFS.

The problem is that if an oozemorph can't hold or use items, then they can't be considered to be in possession of items, can they?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

It was for PFS.

The problem is that if an oozemorph can't hold or use items, then they can't be considered to be in possession of items, can they?

Tell that to Dragons sleeping on their hoards.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

It was for PFS.

The problem is that if an oozemorph can't hold or use items, then they can't be considered to be in possession of items, can they?

Tell that to Dragons sleeping on their hoards.

*shoveling treasure into bag of holding* Look, sir, technically you aren't in possession of this hoard so it's fair game.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I always figured dragons could, but they were too arrogant to bother?

Dark Archive

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Rysky wrote:

You can use items just fine in humanoid form, and stashing all your stuff in a bag of holding and asking an ally to carry it (and possibly you) doesn't sound that severe.

You can't be permanently in human form though and I'd assume that most people who were interested in playing oozemorph were more interested in the ooze form than the humanoid one, having oozemorph work so that you'd prefer to be in humanoid form doesn't really sound attractive reason to play one <_<

(plus seriously, encumbrance can be really annoying based on party composition and amount of loot :p)

Like question isn't even "how do you deal with this?" question is "why was this designed like this?"

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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I'd love to answer folks' mechanical questions, beyond the antimagic field stuff, but I haven't seen the final version of the archetype since I did my original turnover. I can explain broad stroke concepts, but only after I either get my contributor copy (probably a couple weeks) or it goes up on d20pfsrd or the like. I wouldn't want to contradict what's written or be disrespectful to the developer's choices on anything they may've changed!

I can answer one question I saw, though: I was imagining something like an ochre jelly when I designed the class (obviously not with the same abilities, but general "puddle of slime" shape.)


This looks like a blast, but slotless equivalents of existing items are going to get pretty expensive.

Hmm.... Wondrous tattoos could get interesting. Plus implanting ioun stones so you end up looking like something out of a JRPG. X D

Silver Crusade

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blahpers wrote:

This looks like a blast, but slotless equivalents of existing items are going to get pretty expensive.

Hmm.... Wondrous tattoos could get interesting.

O M G

"Uh, commander, there's a horde of stones and gems circling that... puddle."


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Are you in possesion of your pillow if you are sleeping on it? If the answer is yes why can't the oozemorph end up sleeping on the backpack.


doctor_wu wrote:
Are you in possesion of your pillow if you are sleeping on it? If the answer is yes why can't the oozemorph end up sleeping on the backpack.

If an oozemorph sleeps in their backpack, then slithers out in the morning, do they leave everything inside all slimy, or does the ooze not leave a trail like a slug does?


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
doctor_wu wrote:
Are you in possesion of your pillow if you are sleeping on it? If the answer is yes why can't the oozemorph end up sleeping on the backpack.
If an oozemorph sleeps in their backpack, then slithers out in the morning, do they leave everything inside all slimy, or does the ooze not leave a trail like a slug does?

I would argue that the ooze does not leave a slime trail, because it *is* its own slime. It would be constantly getting smaller if it did.

Also, I wonder if a slime character cares about his belongings being slimy?

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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graystone wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


If an Oozemorph goes unconscious or enters an antimagical area, they turn back to a puddle, from the way I've been reading it. The 'fluid form' is considered their 'base form'.

Yes, but it's the SU ability that grants that base form. With it being suppressed, why wouldn't it revert to it's original form? it'd be different if they hadn't put it under the shifting ability but made it it's own EX ability.

And as I pointed out above, the SU ability is a polymorph effect, so you take the movement rate of the form you take: we HAVE no default movement rate for an "protoplasmic blob". I'm also curious if SLA's can be used when spells can't [for unknown reason]. What happens if the base race is a shapechanger? Can my kitsune use it's change shape to take it's human form/fox shape from blob form with it's natural abilities, and if not why? Can it use special move rates [fly, swim, climb]. Can I climb at all [you NEED 2 hands free and you HAVE no hands]. Can you grapple without a –4 penalty for not having 2 free hands? Can I climb a ladder? Do I need to sleep [oozes don't and it's my default form] and am I blind?

This archetype is going to need a series of FAQ's of a whole blog.

It's worth noting that a lot of these questions fall to the distinction between rules as written and rules as intended. Climb might say you need "both hands free" but there's a laundry-list of monsters without hands that climb, including oozes (giant amoebas for one).

As for the ooze's base speed, I'd always intended that it had the base creature's land speed and no others that were reliant on physical form (wings, etc).

With regards to the kitsune stuff, if really have to see what the final text wound up looking like.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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A kind soul shared the final text with me and I'm happy to say it looks almost entirely unchanged from my original turnover, so I can more confidently comment on stuff!

I can now say that the oozeshifter doesn't lose or gain anything that isn't expressly called out in the text. It loses item slots and the ability to hold/manipulate objects and wear equipment. But it retains all of the oozemorph's racial traits (senses, ability scores, etc). The character is treated as an ooze and their original creature type, but not all ooze rules obviously apply to them since the creature's TYPE doesn't change to ooze. (Not blind, etc). Much like how an android is treated as humanoid/construct but doesn't get all of a construct's traits.

So that basically answers the rest of the questions too. Can it climb a ladder? No, because it has no way to climb until it gets a climb speed at 4th level. I think the only thing that really should've been called out in my original text is the movement speeds. That definitely was missed.

I'm open for other questions too! Remember that developer intent trumps aaaaanything I comment on here. So when any official clarification comes up that's the word of law :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yay! Glad it didn’t get changed much.

Were you aware of the Shifter’s Edge Feat while coming up with the archetype?


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
It's also not specified *which* Ooze it is supposed to be modeled after. Is it a baby Gelatinous Cube? Is it grey? Is it the one that makes people have emotional issues?
Robert Brookes wrote:
I can answer one question I saw, though: I was imagining something like an ochre jelly when I designed the class (obviously not with the same abilities, but general "puddle of slime" shape.)

I'm a fan of each Shifter having their own ooze motif. Heck, one of my favorite character designs is basically an Oozemorph based on the Hungry Flesh ooze: Double from Skullgirls. (Warning: kinda creepy)


Rysky wrote:

Yay! Glad it didn’t get changed much.

Were you aware of the Shifter’s Edge Feat while coming up with the archetype?

What's that do?


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blahpers wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Yay! Glad it didn’t get changed much.

Were you aware of the Shifter’s Edge Feat while coming up with the archetype?

What's that do?

If you use Weapon Finesse to get dex to attack, but still use strength to damage, you can add 0.5 your level to damage for two attacks.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Rysky wrote:

Yay! Glad it didn’t get changed much.

Were you aware of the Shifter’s Edge Feat while coming up with the archetype?

Nope! I didn't see any mention of them on our collaborative platform, so they might've well been designed after I turned over my assignments.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Okies, Thankies for responding, and for visiting this thread :3

Dark Archive

But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?


PossibleCabbage wrote:
graystone wrote:
This archetype is going to need a series of FAQ's of a whole blog.
Maybe just a player companion (Ooze's Handbook? Ooze Origins? Blood of the Ooze?) or campaign setting book(Ooze Realms, Path of the Ooze, Inner Sea Ooze, Ooze Adventures?) unto itself.

And afterwards, they can publish Descent into Synthesist

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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CorvusMask wrote:
But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?

The ooze form isn't a benefit, it's effectively a "bad thing" that the oozemorph manages to make the best of. In their natural, blobby state they're at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of ways. This is why their damage reduction and compression abilities still work outside of their ooze form. Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

The oozemorph is mean to excel when in humanoid (or others, depending on level) form, utilizing damage reduction, compression, and morphic weaponry (on top of the remaining shifter abilities).

Dropping into blob form might be able to be creatively used to good effect, but it is primarily a drawback and should be viewed as such.

That said, oozemorphs can absolutely benefit from ioun stones in both forms.


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Kitsune and rougarou get to avoid blob form while conscious from level one, as far as I can tell, making them good choices if you are good at book-dodging.

Silver Crusade

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"Commander, the attackers are scooping the puddle and floating rocks into a bucket and putting the bucket into a catapult."


Also, I found out why they don’t let you hold or activate items in blob form.


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Robert Brookes wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?

The ooze form isn't a benefit, it's effectively a "bad thing" that the oozemorph manages to make the best of. In their natural, blobby state they're at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of ways. This is why their damage reduction and compression abilities still work outside of their ooze form. Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

The oozemorph is mean to excel when in humanoid (or others, depending on level) form, utilizing damage reduction, compression, and morphic weaponry (on top of the remaining shifter abilities).

Dropping into blob form might be able to be creatively used to good effect, but it is primarily a drawback and should be viewed as such.

That said, oozemorphs can absolutely benefit from ioun stones in both forms.

Did you intend for it to be unable to use the stat increase items? Or can it attune by keeping on to it, even while not in humanoid form?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Brawldennis wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?

The ooze form isn't a benefit, it's effectively a "bad thing" that the oozemorph manages to make the best of. In their natural, blobby state they're at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of ways. This is why their damage reduction and compression abilities still work outside of their ooze form. Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

The oozemorph is mean to excel when in humanoid (or others, depending on level) form, utilizing damage reduction, compression, and morphic weaponry (on top of the remaining shifter abilities).

Dropping into blob form might be able to be creatively used to good effect, but it is primarily a drawback and should be viewed as such.

That said, oozemorphs can absolutely benefit from ioun stones in both forms.

Did you intend for it to be unable to use the stat increase items? Or can it attune by keeping on to it, even while not in humanoid form?

They can use them, it's just the bonus won't be considered permanent so they can't qualify for feats with them (barring some new information).

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Brawldennis wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?

The ooze form isn't a benefit, it's effectively a "bad thing" that the oozemorph manages to make the best of. In their natural, blobby state they're at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of ways. This is why their damage reduction and compression abilities still work outside of their ooze form. Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

The oozemorph is mean to excel when in humanoid (or others, depending on level) form, utilizing damage reduction, compression, and morphic weaponry (on top of the remaining shifter abilities).

Dropping into blob form might be able to be creatively used to good effect, but it is primarily a drawback and should be viewed as such.

That said, oozemorphs can absolutely benefit from ioun stones in both forms.

Did you intend for it to be unable to use the stat increase items? Or can it attune by keeping on to it, even while not in humanoid form?

Definitely intended them to be able to use nothing (except slotless, non-held magic items, like ioun stones) while in fluidic form. The intention was, if they can't wear an item, they can't benefit from it.

They can benefit from stat-boosting items while in humanoid form (and if they have to shed their gear and go blob, then pick stuff back up they'll still have the temporary ability score bonuses from the items until they're worn again for 24-hours).


Robert Brookes wrote:
Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

Are they meant to ONLY have a climb speed? Do they have a land speed?


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QuidEst wrote:
Kitsune and rougarou get to avoid blob form while conscious from level one, as far as I can tell, making them good choices if you are good at book-dodging.

Skinwalker too. ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Robert Brookes wrote:
As for the ooze's base speed, I'd always intended that it had the base creature's land speed and no others that were reliant on physical form (wings, etc).

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Worth noting—and I don't see it in the final text—I'd intended for gear to meld with the oozemorph's form when in fluidic form (rather than floating helplessly on their oozy body or however that would look). The melded gear is still non-functional, however. That's definitely worth a FAQ click.

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Between writing this and the metamorph alchemist, I'm fairly certain the design team knows what they're in for when they ask me to make archetypes.


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So oozes (in your estimation) when they have magic items they can use it's considered a property of being 'fully ooze' rather than a fringe benefit, Robert?


Rysky wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
As for the ooze's base speed, I'd always intended that it had the base creature's land speed and no others that were reliant on physical form (wings, etc).

Thanks, missed that part.

Robert Brookes wrote:
Worth noting—and I don't see it in the final text—I'd intended for gear to meld with the oozemorph's form when in fluidic form (rather than floating helplessly on their oozy body or however that would look). The melded gear is still non-functional, however. That's definitely worth a FAQ click.

Cool! That makes things much easier to work with. Having to hand off equipment to another would have been a pain so that solution works well.


Yeah. I’m happy to be able to not worry about re-equipping or having to carry a really light load despite a high strength score just so my allies can help.


I can see the "it's incredibly difficult to attune your belt/headband" being a real pain in the butt in practice, so much so that the oozemorph is just better off with something like Automatic Bonus Progression. Unless of course a GM is just willing to handwave something like "when you absorb your belt into your ooze, you're still wearing it for attunement purposes you just don't get any benefit from it."


Could an oozemorph drink a potion by itself when it is fluidic, or would it need to be administered by an ally? How about gear, can they pull along their own backpack?

The gear meld thing is pretty nice, I've got a one-shot coming up tomorrow and I was wondering if armour was even worth getting, but it seems like I'm in luck.


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Dαedαlus wrote:
J4RH34D wrote:
Except they still revert to an ooze when they sleep... So they would have to never sleep to maintain the use of attuned items.
Hey, that means the plant races actually would make a good Shifter! Or wyrwoods.

If you want to stay awake no matter what race (for example, so you can take some "stay humanoid from level one" race) - The Everwake Amulet.

Anyway, this seems like a class I want to like, but so far my second hand impression is... Questionable.


Question on gear melding when in ooze form. Since you end up in ooze form when in AMF, is your gear completely inaccessible when in AMF or does it de-merge?

Grand Lodge

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Robert Brookes wrote:
Worth noting—and I don't see it in the final text—I'd intended for gear to meld with the oozemorph's form when in fluidic form (rather than floating helplessly on their oozy body or however that would look). The melded gear is still non-functional, however. That's definitely worth a FAQ click.

Unless and until a FAQ does come of this, I for one am happy to default to the polymorph general rule of items melding into your new form; this may even be why words were not put in the book (as saving word count for flexibility in fitting things can be important).

Extending that to attunement is more stretch (for PFS) than I would make, however, until more official commentary happens.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

But the problem here is that the fluidic form is the Oozemorph's natural form -- so the anti-magic field issue uniquely comes up for this archetype. I can't think of any other case where items would merge with a creature's natural form.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


So oozes (in your estimation) when they have magic items they can use it's considered a property of being 'fully ooze' rather than a fringe benefit, Robert?

I'm not sure I follow that question. Could you reword?

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Brawldennis wrote:

Could an oozemorph drink a potion by itself when it is fluidic, or would it need to be administered by an ally? How about gear, can they pull along their own backpack?

The gear meld thing is pretty nice, I've got a one-shot coming up tomorrow and I was wondering if armour was even worth getting, but it seems like I'm in luck.

An oozemorph in fluidic form couldn't hold the potion to administer it (since it can't hold items). But there's nothing saying you can't pour it on the ooze. That's another GM-specific question, mostly can something without a mouth drink a potion? I'm sure that's come up in PFS. I mean, oozes (even just as monsters) can drown, so there's some weird spaces for consideration there.

They can't pull a backpack either, because the "cant hold anything" caveat. That also means they can't open doors, flip lever, or anything that requires hands.

They absolutely could have an oil slathered all over them, though.

I'll leave you with the image of Valeros trying to spread petroleum jelly over a pool of jello.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

The Sideromancer wrote:
Question on gear melding when in ooze form. Since you end up in ooze form when in AMF, is your gear completely inaccessible when in AMF or does it de-merge?

Given the very specific call-out of how AMF and fluidic form works, it'd stay merged into your fluidic form and inaccessible until you're out of the AMF.

Dark Archive

Robert Brookes wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
But can I still get an answer what is reason for why archetype can't use any loot while in the ooze form? .-. I mean, both in universe and design reasons, in universe wise I don't get it because I've seen oozes with spells and magic items and design wise I don't get it since it means it doesn't sound like it has any way to keep up with other PCs except when its not in the ooze form?

The ooze form isn't a benefit, it's effectively a "bad thing" that the oozemorph manages to make the best of. In their natural, blobby state they're at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of ways. This is why their damage reduction and compression abilities still work outside of their ooze form. Outside of getting a (slow) climb speed, they're very vulnerable in that state.

The oozemorph is mean to excel when in humanoid (or others, depending on level) form, utilizing damage reduction, compression, and morphic weaponry (on top of the remaining shifter abilities).

Dropping into blob form might be able to be creatively used to good effect, but it is primarily a drawback and should be viewed as such.

That said, oozemorphs can absolutely benefit from ioun stones in both forms.

Oooh, ok ._. So thats why, thank you for clearing up my confusion! I guess that leaves market open for ooze races xD

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