| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What IS this 'moronic weaponry' that everyone keeps referencing?
I can't find it in my copy, and I think it'd improve my humor about the book if it was actually called out like that?
...we get more mind-oozes this way, I tell you...
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So while I was searching for this image of a cute slime that is REALLY happy to see you it came to my attention that there's an aspect that we haven't been discussing. And that's how fun it is to hug an oozemorph. Seriously, look at this archetype. The cuddle mechanics are on point. This is easily on the top end of tier 2 above Gnomes, Leshies, and Small Cat animal companions.
It still can't compete with tier 1 entries like Pup Shape, though. Paizo seriously needs to balance this gap between martials and casters.
But on a more serious note, how about multiclassing an Oozemorph with Unchained Rogue? Base damage on the morphic weapons is an issue, so boost them up with sneak attack, and make up the class split with a feat. You get free dex to damage, and if you take the Major Magic talent, that's Mage Armor at your beck and call for a much needed AC boost. Alternatively, you can get something like Chill Touch and use Other feats to make that even better.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
I like the shifter.
I don't understand some things. Some of this is a repeat of this thread, reading 450 messages was a chore.
What am I missing?
James Risner:
Taking other forms all day at 1st level: Yep, that's how I read it.
Su in Antimagic: Yep, base form/protoplasmic blob should be it's own EX ability to make things work.
Natural Weapons limited to 2+(1 at 6th)+(1 at 15th): Not natural attack but morphic weapons. So at 6th in a trog form, you're stuck with its 3 weapons but if it's human, you can make 3 morphic weapons. If instead you turn into a kitsune, that 6th level oozemorph can make 2 morphic weapon in addition to its bite. So you subtract your natural weapons from the number of morphic weapons you can make.
Ooze riding a sofa: No idea. I can't even figure out what might block psychic casting but for some reason you can't cast them so it's up in the air.
I've been hearing about Morphic Weaponry where can I read about it?
If you don't have the book, head over to d20pfsrd and search for oozemorph: you'll see a link to the archetype when you do.
So monk/Oozemorph. can i shift into human, flurry with fists and attack with morphic weapons? or can i only choose one or the other?
So monk/Oozemorph. can i shift into human, flurry with fists and attack with morphic weapons? or can i only choose one or the other?
Flurry and morphic weapons, both in and out of ooze form. Lack of limbs has no impact on your unarmed strikes. They couldn't use most style strikes though, as those require a fist, kick or headbutt. Two don't require any body part, Dirty Strikes and Overbearing Assault.
Your monk/Oozemorph is at a disadvantage in ooze form because none of their magic items (belts, amulets, etc.) function, right?
Your monk/Oozemorph is at a disadvantage in ooze form because none of their magic items (belts, amulets, etc.) function, right?
At least we know a ooze monk HAS a move speed after 2nd.
As to magic items, slotless items could be made. Magic tattoo's are another possibility as is permanent Magic fang [greater].
I think we'll have to see how the archetype gets 'fixed' before we worry too much about items.
So monk/Oozemorph. can i shift into human, flurry with fists and attack with morphic weapons? or can i only choose one or the other?Flurry and morphic weapons, both in and out of ooze form. Lack of limbs has no impact on your unarmed strikes. They couldn't use most style strikes though, as those require a fist, kick or headbutt. Two don't require any body part, Dirty Strikes and Overbearing Assault.
Could i fix that with Feral training or ascetic style? I mean TECHNICALLY morphic wrapons arent claws.... but if they hot fix the feat for natural weapons in general it might work.
ALSO, isn't permanency banned in pfs play?
wasn't someone talking about that extra item slot feat? would that not work for the magic item issue Cabbage? also, about that not taking it multiple times part? it's in A.R. "(this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature's anatomy)."
Could i fix that with Feral training or ascetic style? I mean TECHNICALLY morphic wrapons arent claws.... but if they hot fix the feat for natural weapons in general it might work.
Fix what? You can flurry OR use your morphic weapons. Now you could always two weapon fight with unarmed strikes and use morphic weapons.
Feral training/ascetic style: You could get the option to use your morphic weapons INSTEAD of your unarmed strikes in a flurry but that not allowing you to get both.
ALSO, isn't permanency banned in pfs play?
LOL You are talking to the WRONG person there. I don't know or care what PFS is up to as I don't foresee ever playing it. Maybe some other poster knows but I sure don't.
wasn't someone talking about that extra item slot feat? would that not work for the magic item issue Cabbage?
Yep, one single slot... Not exactly exciting or covering all your bases.
also, about that not taking it multiple times part? it's in A.R. "(this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature's anatomy)."
Sure, if you use every feat you have, you can get back to normal...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
also, about that not taking it multiple times part? it's in A.R. "(this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature's anatomy)."Sure, if you use every feat you have, you can get back to normal...
Normal? I honestly just want like 2 or 3 slots. like the necklace maybe the ring or wrist slots. Head slot if I want to wear a crown for giggles.
of the items that I would or might choose...
AoMF obviously... enchant it so I deal varying amounts of elements... does Impact stack with Improved natural weapon?
A belt of physical might (Str, Dex)
Maybe a pair Deliquescent gloves is I wanted to be more Ooze-like~
_____________________________________
A new question, why can't kineticist and oozemorph work together?
She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands).
So if I'm using a normal kinetic blast I could summon my morphic "appendages" and direct the blast right?
Since kinetic fist is part of an attack action could I use it with my morphic weapons as an elemental ascetic?
Normal? I honestly just want like 2 or 3 slots. like the necklace maybe the ring or wrist slots. Head slot if I want to wear a crown for giggles.
There are items called the 'big six' for a reason: You need saves, multiple AC boosts, stat-boost and 'weapon'. Without them, you'll be far behind a normal melee.
_____________________________________
A new question, why can't kineticist and oozemorph work together?
She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands).So if I'm using a normal kinetic blast I could summon my morphic "appendages" and direct the blast right?
Since kinetic fist is part of an attack action could I use it with my morphic weapons as an elemental ascetic?
They can't "hold objects": hence they have NO "prehensile appendage". So, no go. And as far as I know, kinetic fist/blade doesn't remove the need for a free hand.
As such, no morphic weapon to direct blast and no kinetic fist.
Normal? I honestly just want like 2 or 3 slots. like the necklace maybe the ring or wrist slots. Head slot if I want to wear a crown for giggles.There are items called the 'big six' for a reason: You need saves, multiple AC boosts, stat-boost and 'weapon'. Without them, you'll be far behind a normal melee.
_____________________________________
A new question, why can't kineticist and oozemorph work together?
She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands).So if I'm using a normal kinetic blast I could summon my morphic "appendages" and direct the blast right?
Since kinetic fist is part of an attack action could I use it with my morphic weapons as an elemental ascetic?
They can't "hold objects": hence they have NO "prehensile appendage". So, no go. And as far as I know, kinetic fist/blade doesn't remove the need for a free hand.
As such, no morphic weapon to direct blast and no kinetic fist.
Darn, there goes my telekinetic Aether blob plan...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm honestly tempted to make my next character an Oozemorph with Tyrant Totem.
I know, I'm terrible.
I'm honestly tempted to make my next character an Oozemorph with Tyrant Totem.
I know, I'm terrible.
Hey, I would too. as an ooze morph, I wonder how many people you could swallow... also, would you be able to attack the creature inside of you?
You are an amorphous blob after all.
with the totemic initiate feat chain you don't even need to be a barbarian to get it!
We're currently running a few simulations on the class and while I LOVE parts of it I can see how it could be improved rather easily.
Improving the "base" form would be the main thing, since it has been pointed out that it isn't that rewarding. Giving it access to "Ooze aspects" that can only be used in its base form would be one of them, making the player able to mimic things ranging from the Cubes to Ochre jelly.
I'm working on one for Strange Aeons....really I'm just dipping Oozemorph for like four levels (at least that's the current plan) and then going Metamorph.....but I'm looking for things that can enhance the "fluid" body feel (increasing CMD, reach, stuff like that).
Let me know if you run across anything note worthy in your simulations ;)
Oh boy. My table does not generally allow 3P or homebrew.....ever....but my GM just PM me and allowed me to to use a minor Doppelganger homebrew race....for a dip in Oozemorph. The idea is awesome.....but the execution sucks so hard he's good with homebrew and my dipping...
So with the new errata regarding Oozemorphs, what do you guys think can be done with the class? The good news is we no longer are forced to sit in a bucket for 3-4 levels. Also maybe the iterative attack is given to them. Though I doubt it will add much to this archetype.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In case anyone missed it, here is the latest FAQ update:
Oozemorph Shifter: How does the oozemorph’s fluidic body work? Can the oozemorph actually move at all in ooze form? Why does a supernatural ability still have an effect in an antimagic field?
Fluidic Body is essentially two effects in one. The first, which is a permanent part of your character once you become an oozemorph, is that your base form is now an ooze shape. Even if you lose fluidic body for some reason (antimagic field, violating your code of conduct, etc) your base form is still the amorphous oozelike form. The other half of the ability is a supernatural polymorph effect to transform into humanoid (and later bestial) forms.
Despite having an oozelike shape, an oozemorph’s base form is not an ooze, though it does also count as an ooze for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type. The oozelike form doesn’t gain any abilities of the ooze creature type except as stated by the archetype itself. This form retains the base senses and land speed of the oozemorph’s original race, as well as racial abilities like dwarfs’ greed or gnomes’ obsession that don’t depend on shape, but it loses abilities dependent on form, including form-based speeds like strix’s flight (and most other racial speeds beyond land speed), racial natural attacks like catfolks’ claws, and other abilities like tieflings’ prehensile tail. However, if the oozemorph possesses a racial ability denied her in her oozelike form and transforms into a member of her own race with fluidic body, she gains the full benefits of that racial ability for that duration, even if it isn’t usually granted when using alter self (or the appropriate spell for a non-humanoid oozemorph). An oozemorph's compression, damage reduction, and morphic weaponry function in its oozelike form and any form it takes via fluidic body, though not in forms it takes via other polymorph effects.
These clarifications will be reflected in the next errata.
Clears up several things, and makes them mostly playable...still doesn't answer the Kitsune Oozemorph being able to shift into human form at will, since the Kitsune shapeshift is not form dependent.
You are still stuck in your oozelike form the majority of the time up until level 4+
This is assuming the ooze isn't using their only hour of humanoid time to sneak into a town for a job. Of which that seems to be kinda underhanded in intent?
Generally how I did it while playing one involved telling the party outright that I was not a monster and I don't know if it's a curse. Was the only way I figured to swing the whole "get into the party" type tavern meeting. Then telling them to meet you outside of town.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In case anyone missed it, here is the latest FAQ update:
Domo arigato, Jello-san
Clears up several things, and makes them mostly playable...still doesn't answer the Kitsune Oozemorph being able to shift into human form at will, since the Kitsune shapeshift is not form dependent.You are still stuck in your oozelike form the majority of the time up until level 4+
Would it be better if Oozemorph would be changed to have more uses per day from the first level to morph into humanoid? Like 1/2 level (minmum 1) plus Con modifier.
Or better, have the A Thousand Faces, Shifter's new gift, right from first level instead of 18th level? It would be balanced out by the (annoying) fatigue condition after each minute of transformation, while removing for a while all the impendances of blobform and making the class viable. And as side effect would make Kitsune oozemorph less "broken".The fatigue effect (which is, just for clarity, already included in the Fluidic Body feature) prevents from dipping one level into oozemorph.
It's an easy solution at least for an errata of the pdf...
It's rather frustrating that it would take very little to make the Oozemorph playable...yet they apparently don't want to make it playable.
The fixes are simple....
Give it hours per day of Alter self at 1st level, and retain the ability to extend a specific form with a con save.
Allow it to merge equipment.
And I see no reason Psychic spell shouldn't work in Ooze form.
You then have a class/archetype that is worth playing.
|
So you're saying that the unequivocal lack of a specific clause is the specific clause that denies the general rules from applying?
AKA the Ancient Aliens argument?
A little late to the party, but it's quite a sticky thread-! I love playing Semantics & Cite-your-Source.
I'm still working through this lengthy thread so i'll hold my observations & questions & comments for later.... :-D
|
|
OK, so, I've played exactly one PFS session with my L1 Oozemorph, and had a great deal of fun. Here are some thoughts & observations about the archetype:
First off, NOBODY has mentioned what I took to be the Oozemorph's main functional inspiration, the T-1000 of Terminator 2; Which is a construct, yes, fine, it's an inspiration not a carbon copy. If you think about the T-1000, its "natural" form is that of a liquid metal blob. In this form, as in all its forms, it's perfectly combat capable. And that's essential since at first level you have an hour (MAYBE two or three if you're lucky) to converse & cast & write letters & so on. When that hour starts becomes paramount since it can be *ANY* humanoid making the Oozemorph a master of disguise (for a while) also the spell effectively grants the Oozemorph a +2 to either strength or dex added to the list of incentives for taking humanoid form for battle (after magic item slots & spell casting). But in ooze-form they can also infiltrate almost *ANYWHERE* because air-tight seals are rather rare in a medieval fantasy setting.. making them master scouts/spies in many respects at first level. Kinda cool.
Morphic Weapon does not appear to change with the Uzi's Form of the Moment- a morphic weapon from a gnome shape does the same damage as a morphic weapon from a half-orc shape, which is both a blessing and a curse, but more a blessing at low level & more a curse at high level.
2 melee attacks from a small-size creature with full str & BAB at level 1 is pretty neat, as is immunity to sneak attack and crits, etc. and there aren't a lot of characters who get access to that starting out. And sure, you can pick up a stick and thump a guy with it to maintain your disguise, or morph to a human shape to fire a crossbow... but remember how the T-1000 operated; "there's John Conner at range, so I take pot shots at him with the pistol as I rush him to get into melee & kill him with knives & stabbing weapons."
Nowhere does it say that the Uzi looses their carrying capacity in the natural form, they just can't *hold* objects. So they can't pick stuff up, but they can be handed objects, & anything they had in the backpack before reverting ("EEEEeeeeeewwww!") is still on their person. He can open or close a door, manipulate a lever, push a button, or scratch words into the dirt with a morphic weapon to communicate with others. Communication is essential for the class because of its obstacles. Magic tattoos are also something i clearly need to look into.
Coordinating with an allied spell caster for buffs is vital for combat effectiveness even at low level, and I have to say I really *really* wish the base form had some ranged capability;perhaps acid splash at-will would balance out that aspect of the class. But the class isn't about "balance" or "optimization", though I believe it *can* be optimized to whatever goal the player wants to aim for; maybe not as efficiently as other core classes, but enough to remain practical in PFS play. Time will tell if i'm right.
Ultimately the class is about *FUN*. The base form creates unique problems and opportunities for the character that are hi lighted neatly when a session takes place over weeks in-game...
My character, Luckless Lem, has no recollection of exactly what happened to change him, but he left a promising legal career to become an adventurer since his new abilities lend themselves to that. He does, indeed, find his new condition to be a problem that he's making the best of, and while he can explain his issues to the party at The Briefing, there's no preparing them for the moment when the dice fail and so does the character's molecular structure and he melts.
VERY embarrassing.
Delightful to play tho.
|
Bringing this back up again, for more talk about what I think DOES work while staying a blob.
Spiritualist (Ectoplasmatist) Gives you a different kind of weapon progression.
2 levels alchemist for Vestigile arm discovery. This grants something to hold things with, and access to 2 rings, certain gloves, and certain bracers. (The limit is two rings, it doesn't say they have to be different hands)
Kineticist - would first need the vestigile arm from alchemist
Witch hexes (not cackle)
Monk (Menhir guardian) - Flurry with morphic weapons?
Pet classes. Cavalier (ghost rider) amuses me.
Paladin - smite still works.
Oracle (Wrecker + Seeker would be good against traps) Misfortune.
|
|
Anyone come up with a reasonably viable PFS legal build using this archetype?
I really like the concept of it, but it feels super underwhelming mechanically.
Better to stay Shifter all the way through, or multi-class? A dip into unchained monk for extra AC and access to flurry maybe? Possibly some unchained rogue for finesse and dex to damage?
I know they closed to Kitsune loophole, and you lose any racial abilities based on your shape (claws, wings, bites, etc)...any other races stand out as above average for it? I'm kinda leaning towards Undine, the stats fit, and thematically some of them are descended from ooze mephits and the like.
Also a question...when you shift into a humanoid form, do you auto-equip armor, magic items, etc from your inventory? Or do you have to waste actions equipping everything?
Can you take the Wild Speech feat to talk in your base form at level 6+?
Also...I just noticed...it looks like Morphic Weaponry does not get the treated as a magic weapon and ignores DR effect that Shifter Claws gets since it replaces Shifter's Claws instead of modifying it...
|
|
I'm trying to make mine for PFS. More difficultly, I'm trying to defy the author, and make it still viable while in ooze form.
From my other post - I think Kineticist might be out, as the blasts are spell-like and you can't cast spells. Unless you take the Blood archetype which makes it all SU, but the damage plummets.
Right now I'm really leaning towards the Ectoplasmatist. It lets you manifest a weapon or two and doesn't require hands to wield them. (Again, author intent not binding - I know he's said the intent was that they take up your hands, but that's not how it's written) At level 4 it also gives you a bit of armor and reach, and you can manipulate with the lashes as if they were hands.
|
|
I was thinking maybe an Undine Oozemorph 8, UMonk 1, URogue 3...focusing on Dex and Wis. Grab Feral Combat Training and flurry with your Morphic Weapons, adding in a couple d6 of sneak attack when possible.
The base form has some nice stuff with its immunity to crits and such...but not being able to use any slotted magic items really sucks, you won't be able to hurt anything with any kind of DR since Morphic Weaponry does not get the DR penetration that Shifter's Claws gets.
I really like the oozemorph concept...unfortunately it is just terrible as written...even after some of the FAQ and errata, it is barely playable. It looks like they don't qualify for any of the feats that require Wild Shape as Fluidic Body completely replaces it, their Morphic Weapons never get any better or count as magic or penetrate different DRs, they can only use items for a limited amount of time per day (still not sure if they auto-equip or if they have to waste turns putting on gear when they take a humanoid form)
Are you talking about the Spiritualist archetype with Ectoplasmic Lash? If so, RAW, you have to wield them.
At 1st level, as a full-round action an ectoplasmatist can manifest one or two lashes of ectoplasm tethered to her by wispy, ectoplasmic tendrils. If she manifests two lashes, she can wield them both as light melee weapons, each dealing 1d6 points of slashing damage
Kineticist Blast probably wouldn't work either...pretty sure you need classes with passive bonuses like the monk's wisdom to AC, or unchained rogue's finesse training.
|
|
Are you talking about the Spiritualist archetype with Ectoplasmic Lash? If so, RAW, you have to wield them.
At 1st level, as a full-round action an ectoplasmatist can manifest one or two lashes of ectoplasm tethered to her by wispy, ectoplasmic tendrils. If she manifests two lashes, she can wield them both as light melee weapons, each dealing 1d6 points of slashing damage
But the other part is why I don't think you need hands.
|
|
Tethered just means they can't be stolen, basically an ectoplasmic Weapon Cord. You still have to wield them, and an oozemorph in it's basic form loses the ability to wield weapons.
I disagree. I'm seeing them as like this or this. Even these are sort-of in line.
In any case it's moot, as I'm still planning on the 2 levels of alchemist to get a hand for rings and glove. The bigger problem is the level progression.
Level 1: Oozemorph: ooze
Level 2: Alchemist: Shapechange 1/d
Level 3: Alchemist: arm
Level 4: Spiritualist: lash
Level 5: Spiritualist: lash +1
Level 6: Spiritualist: --
Level 7: Spiritualist: reach, armor
Level 8: Oozemorph: DR 4/slash
Level 9: Oozemorph: --
Level 10: Oozemorph: DR 6/slash, climb
Level 11: Vigilante?: Full Bab + will save at least...
It's just a really slow progression. Level 7 is a long time to wait for armor. DR doesn't come till level 8.
A level of monk could be inserted at 8,9,10, or 11 and drop off vigilante for more AC. Not sure if unchained for the BAB or regular for the Will save. Probably regular, as it would allow for Flowing Monk or Menhir Guardian
Opponent's DR will always be a problem though. And AC is rough.
|
|
Make sure you run it by your GM...RAW it says you have to wield the lashes, and PFS is all supposed to be run RAW, so even with the alchemist Vestigial Arm discovery, you could only wield 1 when not in humanoid form.
Also, how are you getting a 1/day shapechange from 1 level of Alchemist? If it is from an extract, you will have to burn your 1 hour of fluidic body to prepare your extracts at the beginning of the day, and would not be able to use them until level 3 when you grow an arm to be able to handle them.
|
|
Finally put numbers to it. While you CAN get an ok AC (got up to 23 at level 11), the damage remains tiny. Not nearly enough for someone who's got that as their main purpose.
Other options. Well, you can fit an ooze into pretty much any combat maneuver build. But that's not really an ooze build, just something else that includes ooze (and suffers from lack of gear).
I do like the idea of an ooze that just breaks other people's stuff, since if he can't have any why should anybody else.
Utility / Support character? But you can't speak, and have no gear. So your 'toolbox' is significantly limited.