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rkotitan wrote:
Today I'm adding my changes to the encounter with Lo-Pan... I mean Yugureda Shosaito in book 5. Most of the changes are encounter based as he is largely similar to his counterpart in the book but I did add some spells.

Nice take! I particularly like the lantern + shadow attack trick -- spooky and thematic.

Mathmuse wrote:
Yes, Arc could. He found some clever uses of the spells he had prepared, and the spells the sorcerer Nuriko and oracle Amaya had on hand, and at one point the ninja Ebony Blossom used her ghost step ability to step through the the archway in the north wall that was not an actual portal to the Plane of Shadow to attach a mystic tether to Tarukimi's soul. I had to allow a lot of loose interpretions of side uses of spells, but the result was glorious roleplaying.


Another vote for 'cutting room floor' and 'troubleshooting' material, speaking as another GM who wouldn't run an AP until all of the books were available. More info on ramifications for the setting at the end of an AP would also be good (though easier for some cases than others, obviously).

I think they've always been like this. Which isn't to say I think all APs are bad, more that they all have high points and low points. Paizo's publishing model (from my limited understanding of it) means that connections between books in an AP will tend to be weak, and the constraints of Pathfinder mean they have to spend a lot of space on stats and combat encounters. I think the awkward marriage of setting and system also brings in inevitable plot weaknesses. And it's always hard for a whole path to live up to the expectations, particularly if it has a strong hook and exciting premise.

For me, recent instalments have seemed weaker, but I'm guessing some of that is what Haffrung said -- new devs and writers are building up experience -- and the rest is probably just my own changing tastes.

But Paizo can't please everybody, certainly not all the time, and they do a pretty good job in offering a variety of genres and experiences within the AP model. Some of the APs I like least are other people's favourites, and that's a good thing!

Pnakotus Detsujin wrote:

Question. I've realized ... a solution to the conundrum regarding the Pcs fate, and i've noticed it's not been proposed yet.

Basically, to get a good ending you just need to ...

** spoiler omitted **

Isn't the shard in his hand metaphysically stuck to him just like the PCs' obols? So if you destroy him by conventional means, he reforms next to his phylactery with the shard still in his hand?

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Nice work, Tangent!

Looks like a good analysis to me!

Neat stuff! I can't think of much to add off the top of my head, except a possible division within the golds (I mean, obviously both factions can have subfactions, but this leapt out at me): an independent Archduchy or Grand Duchy (and strong central executive power) versus something like an independent oligarchic republic (and weak central executive power). However, this issue would be unlikely to emerge unless there is a noble PC who wants to be the Top Noble and won't settle for Mayor.

Also, wouldn't at least some of the Milanites be in favour of the blue revolutionary agenda?

Coming in late to this thread, but I'm excited to read that we get the lowdown on the Red Bishop's plans at last!

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
There are also the Solstines on the Board of Governors, who seem ripe for co-optation.

Of course, roguerouge isn't bound by the text, but according to Book 5, "the Solstines haven’t taken part in the aristocracy or politics for decades", which would seem to put them out of the running for marriage proposals.

EDIT: On the other hand, having some of them show up at the Masquerade, even if it's not for an arranged date, is a good way to introduce them so their involvement in the later plot isn't out of the blue.

The Jarvises do seem like the most obvious pick. If you were at the start of the game, the Aulorians might also be interested in consolidating their silver interests. (This would be a good way to introduce Marquel Aulorian early on in a new game.) If you're already at the Masquerade, though, Marquel is presumably out of the picture one way or another, but if you gave him any siblings, his family might still be looking for a match.

(As a minor note, I think they wouldn't technically be blind dates, as a noble daughter would presumably already know any eligible suitors in Kintargo.)

There's also the political angle. If the Jhalteros are pro-Kintargo, one consideration from their side might be to gain influence over a weakly pro-Thrune house or bolster the support of a weakly pro-Kintargo house. (Pro-Thrune houses might on the other hand be seeking marriages elsewhere in Cheliax.) And from the other side, if another house perceives the Jhalteros as only weakly pro-Kintargo, they might want a marriage that pulls them closer to one camp or the other.

Depending how you've arranged the houses' lands, any house with estates adjacent to those of the Jhalteros might be interested in a match.

Then there's the issue of rank. The implication is, I think, that the nine (well, eight now) houses are of roughly equal power and status, so a Kintargo baron's daughter will generally be an acceptable match for a Kintargo count's son. But some of the house heads might be more particular, e.g. Countess Sarini might want her children to marry into other comital families at least, or even ducal families if she can arrange it. Along similar lines, you could also throw in some lower aristocratic families from rural Ravounel (e.g. the Aeldervenks who show up in Book 5) who might not aspire to catching a count's son but are prepared to pursue a baron's daughter.

It also depends somewhat on what marriage and inheritance laws you have in place, if you're interested in including that sort of thing. Say Jane is the only daughter of Lord and Lady Jhaltero, and she marries Count Tanessen's only son, Bob. If Jane and Bob then have children, does their first child (or first son) inherit everything, becoming a Tanessen and effectively ending house Jhaltero? In that case, the Jhalteros probably don't want Jane to marry an heir whose offspring would subsume their house. If, however, there are inheritance laws or other legal mechanisms that can keep both houses extant (e.g. if Bob and Jane's first child inherits the Tanessen title and estate, then their second child inherits the Jhaltero title and estate), their options are more open.

Character class could be a factor in some cases. For example, if Jane Jhaltero is a wizard, that might make her more interesting to the Tanessens.

One last thought is that some houses might simply not have an available child of the right age, and/or are already related to a degree that rules out marriage. I don't think there's much detail on the family trees, so as with most of the other stuff it's up to you.

Dasrak wrote:
Hippogriffs have the front claws of a bird of prey, which have scales, and the back legs of a horse, which have hooves.

That's a good point! I didn't think of bird scales.

Hmm. Perhaps Beldam doesn't consider bird scales to be true scales? (My guess is that a lot of players would take 'scales' to indicate reptile or fish scales, at least on first reading.)

Mechalibur wrote:

I'm a bit confused about the cup puzzle in G4. As far as I can tell the clues don't seem sufficient to identify which cup has the poison. Both the hippogriff and unicorn cups seem to meet all the clues' requirements. The book says it's the hippogriff, but the unicorn cup:

1. Is next to a platinum cup, so the first clue doesn't eliminate it
2. Has hooves, so the second clue doesn't eliminate it
3. Is not the naga cup, so the third clue doesn't eliminate it
4. Doesn't have feathers, so the last clue doesn't apply (and even if it did, it happens to be 2 to the right of a gold cup anyway)

Am I missing something here?

I think it works if we take 'if' in the fourth statement as 'if and only if' (i.e. biconditional rather than conditional).

That is:
If the poison cup does have feathers, it is two cups to the right of a gold cup; conversely, if the poison cup does not have feathers, it is not two cups to the right of a gold cup.

Whereas the conditional reading is:
If the poison cup does have feathers, it is two cups to the right of a gold cup; this implies nothing about the case of the poison cup not having feathers.

Bumping this a little because my players have picked the coin up and want to destroy it. Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill out the sidequest?

So far I'm thinking the players can easily identify relevant nearby dragons, but the main problem is getting to a dragon's lair. A bit of wilderness travel, diplomacy with local kami/fey/etc. to get the specific location, then fly/climb up the mountain and ask the dragon politely to help. Pick a couple of suitable encounters to make it challenging. Maybe throw in some ninjas (as at least some of the ninja clans will not want this famous ninja artifact to be destroyed), but the PCs have just killed one of the country's top ninjas, so the clans might be wary. (Besides, the group is probably a bit tired of ninja attacks by now.)

I forgot one:

Character Name: Kelda Oxgutter
Race/Class: Half-orc bloodrager
Adventure: Forest of Spirits
Location: The Gossamer Pagoda
Cause of death: Mohrg attacks

I took the above-ground levels out of the House of Withered Blossoms and had them as a separate location in the Forest of Spirits. Akinosa's minions captured some of the caravan NPCs, so the party set out to get them back. They flew in through the top of the pagoda and worked their way down. By the time they got to the maze of screens, they were feeling pretty cocky, so a couple of PCs ran into the maze on their own, figuring nothing was left in the pagoda that could threaten them. A couple of the mohrgs snuck up on Kelda, paralysed her and killed her. (Time for another use of the Seal.)

Character Name: Zeldana Avertin
Race/Class: Human bladebound magus
Adventure: Tide of Honor
Location: A street in Enganoka
Cause of death: Puncture wounds, poison

I forget exactly how this went down, but my vague memory is that Kaibuninsho walked up to Zeldana and a couple of other PCs in the street (disguised as an unobtrusive civilian), whipped out a knife and failed to hit anyone. Very embarrassing. He didn't want to hang around after that, so he vanished into the crowd.

Later that day, he spotted Zeldana and another PC again, and made a second attempt. This time he successfully attacked from stealth and brought Zeldana down with a pile of poison and sneak attack damage, and stuck around another round for a coup de grace before vanishing.

By now, of course, the party can bring back the dead without using the Seal, so Zeldana was fine in a couple of hours.

The master ninja did manage to bring Zeldana, Ameiko and Quill (the party's gnome wizard) to 0 hp on subsequent occasions, but the party fought him off each time before he could finish the job. They finally killed him outside a teahouse, again in Enganoka. (He was disguised as one of the serving staff and tried to serve them poisoned food, but they detected the poison, so he tried stabbing people instead.)

(What Kaibuninso probably should have done each time was run off with the body and destroy it. That might have been a bit unfair, though.)

If there's a player issue, the best thing is almost always to talk it through with the player(s).

If you simply posting about it would make him leave, then it seems likely to me that there are bigger problems and the game may be destined for collapse anyway.

But if you don't feel comfortable talking about it here, maybe you could start a thread at another RPG forum under a different username.

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rkotitan wrote:

So my group fought the dragon last night and due to the fact that they had resist energy on were barely injured before they nearly surrounded and killed her in two rounds. So she took a withdraw action (400 ft) and pretty much got away.

The party was pretty bummed that they didn't get to kill her. My question is: The adventure says that the people of Iqaliat praise and invite the party in if they kill the dragon. If they failed to kill her what would my fellow DMs say is their reaction?

In effect she has been driven off and in my eyes has chosen to focus her anger on the party until they are dead and then she will return to punish the village. If she has been driven away does that basically count as killing her?

I'd say that doesn't count as killing her. It means she'll focus on the PCs instead of Iqaliat for a while, so they'll get more chances to kill her, but it only postpones her revenge. If the PCs have any local guides with them, maybe the guides could suggest waiting at her lair so they can try again when she comes back. (Ulf or Skygni could also think of this.)

If they go back to Iqaliat without having killed the dragon, the villagers would probably have mixed feelings. 'So, you folks are tough enough to almost kill a dragon. That's good! But you failed, and now she's probably angrier than ever and will come back to kill us all after you leave.'

At the least, I'd say Sonavut doesn't give them the sashimono of comfort until Vegsundvaag is dead. The villagers will grudgingly accept the PCs' presence, but they won't throw a big feast, and they won't give a 25% discount on caravan equipment.

Wakrob wrote:
Uqbarian wrote:
Wakrob, are you still looking for a list?
So like a year later we started up the campaign again. And yes, still looking for that list *grin*.

Righto! If you want to message me your email address, I have a partial list in Word format. What particular details are you looking for besides names?

I agree with the above. Making Ameiko a PC requires only a few minor tweaks and probably makes for a stronger narrative.

rkotitan wrote:

I do feel bad about emotionally terrorizing the pc's but how feasible is it that only those four thugs and ninja would be there after 12 hours? I'm thinking at least Wodes, all the tengu, and the raven swarms would be hanging out to gang up on them.


I'd have suggested OOC that the druid shouldn't be camping out in a villain's headquarters while some of the enemies are still at large. What did you end up doing?

deuxhero wrote:
"Sama" should not be part of Numataro's name. Sama is an honorific to show a very high level of respect, and giving your own name with an honorific is a huge faux pas. An extremely arrogant and full of himself character (Kamina from TTGL) may do it, but that's not how Numataro is described.

A usage note in the book would have been handy, but Numataro is one of the oldest and wisest kappa in Minkai. O-Sayumi may have referred to him with the honorific when talking about him to O-Hakami (and O-Hakami is likely to be the first NPC to mention him to the PCs). Similarly, the fishermen who know about him might also use the honorific out of respect. I agree that it makes sense for him not to use it to refer to himself, though.

Ed Reppert wrote:
KingTreyIII wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
The word loci is a plural. The singular is locus. Just sayin'. :-)

In the actual English language that is the case, but with respect to genius loci specifically, it is both the singular and plural.

Hm. According to Wikipedia, the plural of "genius loci" is "genii loci". My Latin is apparently not good enough, because I can't figure out what's going on with "loci" in this term. <shrug> No matter.

As Zaister mentioned above, loci in genius loci is the genitive singular: 'of a/the place'.

The Wikipedia entry is a bit misleading here, as the term arguably has two plurals. Genii loci has genii in the plural but keeps loci in the genitive singular, so it means 'spirits of (the) place'. You could use this to refer to multiple spirits protecting the same location. You could possibly also use genii loci as a general plural (in a similar way to how English 'spirits of place' can be used to refer to multiple spirits of this type without specifying the number of locations). However, a more precise alternative with both words in the plural is genii locorum, 'spirits of (the) places'.

The Mad Comrade wrote:
I'm not clear on what Crystal means by 'Afro-futurism' - MCU Wakanda-esque I guess? - but southern Garund always struck me as the proverbial Dark Continent. Not the 'infested with cannibal savages' kind, rather the 'pre-historic horrors lurk beneath the insect-and-monster-infested ultimate hostile wilderness' kind. The Isle of Dread writ across most of the entire continent kind. Perhaps more serpentfolk lay in torpor? A great temple of gold lurks in the bowels of at utterly hostile jungle eager to devour foolhardy treasure seekers in a Lost World environ?

That's kind of the Mwangi Expanse, isn't it? (Also, Nagajor and the Valashmai Jungle in Tian Xia cover a lot of similar thematic territory.)

motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago
I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)

A Viking-themed Queenmaker AP would be awesome! :)

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Like they say in Vecna's family --

** spoiler omitted **

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!

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I am ... uh, let's go with Nairabqu. But that's not important.

I've been here for a while already, and I have a really sweet hideout deep beneath the Grand Lodge in Absalom.

I have ten secondary eyes and ten chief minions. I call those guys the Decemvirate.

I like knowing stuff, so I built up this organisation that brings me knowledge from all over.

At the moment I'm mostly concerned with knowing stuff and staying safely hidden.

I might show up in an AP centred around the secrets of the Pathfinder Society, I guess. Or maybe one with those creepy aboleth guys. I worry about them sometimes, and I don't think they'd like me much either.

AaronUnicorn wrote:
Yes, but if I could count on the Magus, I wouldn't be in the position of wondering how badly I needed an arcane caster. My issue is that I can't count on the Magus' player to be reliable, and I'm trying to figure out if the party needs to shore up the potential absence of the Magus.

But if the magus' player doesn't show up, the character is still there to be run as an NPC, right? Or does your group not allow that? (EDIT: Ah, rereading your first post, I see there's the possibility the magus might not be around at all by the fifth book.)

But the druid can cover getting into Runeforge on their own, assuming the party figures out the requirements and has time to prepare, as all the required schools are on the druid spell list. (I'm also assuming the Runeforge entrance doesn't require spells of a particular level -- I don't have the hardcover for reference.) Illusion is a hole in their corebook list, but they can use hide campsite from the APG; elven druids can also use blend from the ARG.

AaronUnicorn wrote:
I suppose I could offer the suggestion of someone taking an NPC wizard cohort. They're already quite fond of Ameiko, after all.

It's a good option, particularly if they're happy to run the cohort. (You'd probably want the cohort to go with a PC that doesn't have an animal companion, of course.)


Rune wrote:
Beware that the entrance to Runeforge is pretty difficult to open without a wizard or a versatile caster, requiring one spell of each school to be cast.

The druid and the magus should be able to cover that (maybe with help from the rogue via UMD), as long as they're not on a short time limit.

AaronUnicorn wrote:
I will definitely keep the idea of an NPC arcane caster in my back pocket as a future possibility, but yeah, I'd really prefer to avoid that if at all possible. It would be one thing if I had a small table (3 players), but with 5, including a Druid who very much considers her animal companion to be a full member of the party, controlling an arcane caster on the side of the players is just a lot of work I don't want to do.

For sure. I was just thinking that having one around for only one book of the AP would be more manageable than having an NPC caster ally from the beginning. But running one is still a time and attention sink whenever it happens, definitely.

AaronUnicorn wrote:
Your comments about Book 5 is very much the kind of insight I was looking for. I will definitely urge the Samurai's player to consider an arcane caster with access to a spellbook. Wizard, Arcanist, Magus, something in that family.

If the samurai's player is still reluctant,

another option for Book 5 is to have one of the local casters ally with the party in exchange for a chance to escape the Runeforge.

Alchemaic wrote:
Uqbarian wrote:
So you're saying we might some day get a Word that Walks? ;)
No. That would require someone to care about the subsystem to resurrect it.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
I loved the idea of Words of Power. However, it has already been reborn into the far superior Spheres of Power system :)

I keep meaning to look into Spheres. It does sound nifty!

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Alchemaic wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I'm honestly worried that shifter will end up like mythic rules because Paizo doesn't like touching things that caused Internet outrage at all <_<
At least Mythic got an AP and has the occasional bit of new material added, Words of Power is dead, buried, and the corpse was eaten by maggots who are also dead and buried.

So you're saying we might some day get a Word that Walks? ;)

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

What IS this 'moronic weaponry' that everyone keeps referencing?

I can't find it in my copy, and I think it'd improve my humor about the book to gallows humor if it was actually called out like that?

Corpi Hoppins had it as an autocorrect error for 'morphic weaponry' upthread.

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Slim Jim wrote:
This boldfaced sentence appears to flatly contradict the immediately preceding one, whose subject (the effects of high attack bonus) it is linking itself to by the use of the leading word "Instead...".

Would you like to say how you think 'instead' works when it appears at the beginning of a sentence?

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
So.. get rid of full BAB (change to 3/4) and replace with 'at will' Aspect of choice from L1(no duration length), Major at L2(no duration length), and hour/level duration Wild shape with no restrictions @L4 seem like a good fix?

To me that looks like a Feral Hunter who's given up 6th-level spellcasting and a summoning buff in exchange for major aspects and the shifter's claws. I'm not sure if that's a good trade.

Well, just to get something out of the way... in the AP as written, I don't think the Amatatsu seal can turn an enemy into an ally. (For example, it doesn't change a person's alignment.) And I don't think the seal can work in a virtual universe. But if you've already allowed it to do that and the players are happy, then that's fine, it's your game after all! :)

What sort of oni is the new member?

Is Zaiobe still with the caravan and still an ally?

(Also, who/what is Goija? Is that Koya, the priestess of Desna?)

So, some ideas:

1. This could be a big thing, like redeeming a demon in Wrath of the Righteous. You could have a whole arc about the oni trying to be good, struggling with temptations, not being trusted by people etc. (A possible tragic-but-happy ending here might be for her to make a heroic sacrifice to save a PC, so she dies, but she reincarnates as a kami.)

Also consider that a lot of the kami and many mortals won't trust her, and most of the oni will want her dead.

2. Depending how you had it work with Zaiobe, this could be a dangerous development. Maybe the oni is lying (or maybe she's honest now but will backslide later). If the oni is now part of the imperial family, she might conspire against the party to get herself onto the throne.

(Depending on her oni type, her personality and the tone of your campaign, you could combine either of the above with a humorous running plot in which she keeps gossiping to the wrong people and getting the party into funny/awkward/dangerous situations.)

3. Maybe the seal only worked on her in the first place because she's not a fallen kami, she's an oni who used to be a human spirit (like Anamurumon). This could make her important to the endgame; e.g. maybe she can give a PC the ability to harm major oni in the way the royal weapons do, or she remembers useful secrets from her past life.

That is a cool cover, but also the red and green combo makes him look quite Christmassy. :)

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Greater demiplane with a portal as the exit point for your sewer system. Once you have that there are 101 options for removing poo. Permanent fire pit, Permanent summoned creatures in Latrine duty, fill the whole thing with poo earring monsters, etc.

"Hey, Wizard Dave, don't get me wrong, your demiplane is pretty neat, but I'm not so sure about your taste in jewellery..."

Carrion Crown is another one that doesn't strongly require the first part, I reckon.

NobodysHome wrote:
So I'm going to second the notion that the teamwork stuff is unworkable, both mathematically and because much of the information is, "Oh, by the way, you should find a way to feed this information to the PCs at some point during Book 6, but we won't mention it except in the stat blocks...

I agree that the information could have been better organised, but re the teamwork maths, check the sidebar on page 43. If the PCs retrieve the seals from the palace treasury and openly display them in the final confrontation, that's another -25 on teamwork scores.

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Verzen wrote:
I wish there was a rhino aspect that gave 2/4/6 natural enhanvement bonus to AC. Then i could emu late The Rhino from Spiderman!

I might try a green knight first, but I hope the shifter has some stuff for big flightless birds so I can emulate an emu later. ;)

Adam Daigle wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

It's not the two broken planets, is it?

This is a neat generator, thanks for sharing it!

NobodysHome wrote:

All well and good, up until the moment you notice that there is not a single Typhoon commander in the entire castle.

So what did people do?

  • Add a Typhoon commander to every watch tower, increasing the CR?
  • Replace one or two of the guards with a commander?
  • Just let it be a "Whoopsie, we messed up the watch!" moment?

  • I see at least two Typhoon commanders in the palace (Roka Kozu and Bogo-Na). I'd be inclined to add a commander to each watch tower (raising the CR by 1, to CR 15). (The gate patrols are 4 guards and one commander, so having the same in the watch towers works for me.)

    Yakman wrote:
    i don't think they really care. and if you, the dm, really care, just handwave it and say that the Peregrine was delayed by several months.

    Reading through it again, I think the villains do know more colonists are coming, but like you say, they're not too worried. (They did successfully deal with the first lot, after all, so they have reason to be confident they can do it again.)

    Lakesidefantasy wrote:
    I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly, or if I'm just making it up, but I thought somewhere in the adventure path it says that if Kazavon is brought back through the Everdawn Pool then he is essentially immortal and cannot die. It requires bringing the seven relics of Kazavon together to kill him.

    Yep, according to his statblock in the Crimson Throne hardcover, he cannot be permanently killed as long his relics remain, and the only way to destroy his relics is to kill him. So if he's been brought back by the Everdawn Pool, a party would have to kill him, gather all of the relics together, use the relics to resurrect him, and then kill him again.

    I can't see anything in the Crimson Throne hardcover or in Artifacts and Legends that says the other artifacts lose their power if Kazavon manifests. If he's been brought back by the Everdawn Pool, he doesn't technically need them, but it's definitely in his interest to make sure they're safe and under his control. The printed material doesn't indicate that they'd make him more powerful, but I don't think it's an unreasonable stretch to make them work that way. Some of them might also be in the hands of powerful owners who think they can combine them to increase their own power (or that the artifacts can be used to control Kazavon, though you'd have to be pretty crazy to think that'd work).

    Sleepy laReef wrote:
    And if you're saying that putting on the Mask when you're already sick cures you, I don't think there's a rule that says that. While wearing the Mask you can't contract the disease, and if you already have it you won't get worse, but nothing says it cures the disease.

    Yeah, I was reading this thread yesterday and thinking the same thing. (I didn't reply because Mouseless's post is from a few months ago.) There's nothing to say the mask cures blood veil if someone contracted it before putting the mask on.

    I can imagine an argument that the mask would make the wearer immune to the effects if they've already contracted the disease, and would give them an automatic success on their save to get rid of the disease. (People often suggest this ruling for a periapt of health.) In this case, that's functionally equivalent to the 24-hour attunement suggestion, though.

    Thanks, Ted. I'm not actually running the AP yet, and we might not get around to it.

    Wakrob, are you still looking for a list?

    Just checking whether I've misunderstood something: the scenario mentions the possibility of Rayland throwing off the domination effect. But he can only do this if he rolls a 20, right? (Because a natural 20 is still a success, I believe? His Will save is +3, so even with an additional +2 on his save, he can't beat a DC of 26.)

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