Fun fact: in the first AP, there's a scene where you can only enter without weapons and armor if you want to try any sort of diplomacy. Going balls to the wall with combat is also an option, and the question of bringing guns is irrelevant. But if you want to even try the diplomatic approach, you have to come disarmed.
In mine I follow common sense.
In places with a local law enforcement contingent I generally say two handed advanced melee weapons are illegal for open carry, long guns, explosives, and heavy Weapons.
Pistols, one handed melee weapons, those are generally fine.
To be honest, I wouldn't call your common sense so common.
While I agree with explosives, and maybe heavy weapons...I don't really see the point in restricting longarms or any melee weapons.
For the most part weapon bans aren't really enforceable except in small areas. You might be able to do a weapon ban in certain parts of Absalom Station by patting down/scanning everyone entering the area (through the use of limited access points). But part of the setting of the station even includes gang wars IIRC, so weapons are available and violence does occur.
In mine I follow common sense.
In places with a local law enforcement contingent I generally say two handed advanced melee weapons are illegal for open carry, long guns, explosives, and heavy Weapons.
Pistols, one handed melee weapons, those are generally fine.
To be honest, I wouldn't call your common sense so common.
While I agree with explosives, and maybe heavy weapons...I don't really see the point in restricting longarms or any melee weapons.
For the most part weapon bans aren't really enforceable except in small areas. You might be able to do a weapon ban in certain parts of Absalom Station by patting down/scanning everyone entering the area (through the use of limited access points). But part of the setting of the station even includes gang wars IIRC, so weapons are available and violence does occur.
I think the role of Absolam Station as an entrepot of weird aliens from all kinds of star systems suggests the need for allowing decent personal weapons. Since they don't want a police state setting, allowing everyone to be mutually armed in case some space racists object to your kind seems necessary if you want anyone to leave their ship.
In mine I follow common sense.
In places with a local law enforcement contingent I generally say two handed advanced melee weapons are illegal for open carry, long guns, explosives, and heavy Weapons.
Pistols, one handed melee weapons, those are generally fine.
To be honest, I wouldn't call your common sense so common.
While I agree with explosives, and maybe heavy weapons...I don't really see the point in restricting longarms or any melee weapons.
For the most part weapon bans aren't really enforceable except in small areas. You might be able to do a weapon ban in certain parts of Absalom Station by patting down/scanning everyone entering the area (through the use of limited access points). But part of the setting of the station even includes gang wars IIRC, so weapons are available and violence does occur.
This. When 88% of US States allow the open carry of long guns, it seems odd to say it's 'common sense' to ban them. The same can probably be said for two-handed melee weapons, which are probably used in a whole lot fewer crimes than long guns (though I don't have stats on legality of carry).
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This. When 88% of US States allow the open carry of long guns, it seems odd to say it's 'common sense' to ban them. The same can probably be said for two-handed melee weapons, which are probably used in a whole lot fewer crimes than long guns (though I don't have stats on legality of carry).
That entirely depends on what country you're in. Australia, for example, has 0% open carry. Don't assume that just because the US does something, it's automatically the correct way.
For Absolom Station or any given world in SF, the rules will likely be different, based on local politics. And in general, the methods that "work" in game will be heavily skewed towards whatever the GMs personal opinions are.
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I don't see anyone suggesting that the way the US does gun control is automatically the right way.
What people are challenging is the notion that its "common sense" based on real life that weapons above a pistol would be banned in the Pact Worlds when a large portion of the modern world has a right to carry them in public.
Absolam Station lets you carry heavy weapons off an shuttle, and doesn't even have security guards around in arriving docking bays. They just don't worry about this stuff, apparently.
Add to that; space is much harder to regulate and patrol. There is a lot of empty space out there not effectively protected by any government. There is a much increased chance that a ship traveling through space will have to defend itself with lethal force because who else will stop the pirates? What's more, regulation on a galactic scale is infinitely more difficult, and the criminals need only find one supply line in order to outpace the civilians.
All reasons that would justify legalization of larger weapons for civilians.
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I don't see anyone suggesting that the way the US does gun control is automatically the right way.
What people are challenging is the notion that its "common sense" based on real life that weapons above a pistol would be banned in the Pact Worlds when a large portion of the modern world has a right to carry them in public.
Precisely my point, thank you.
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[Is allowed to fly a ship with nuclear missiles mounted on it.]
[Isn't allowed to carry a weapon doing 1d6 damage because it's too long.]
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A lot of our gun control laws aren't based on the threat the weapon poses, but on the weapon looking scary.
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I don't see anyone suggesting that the way the US does gun control is automatically the right way.
What people are challenging is the notion that its "common sense" based on real life that weapons above a pistol would be banned in the Pact Worlds when a large portion of the modern world has a right to carry them in public.
By "large portion of the modern world" you really mean "one country of the modern world," right? Because it's really just an American thing. The vast majority of developed nations don't allow it without a permit or special need. And I can't find evidence of any other developed nation allowing it. Israel, maybe? Heck, there are even countries which require every citizen to own a gun, but open carry is banned except for those with a hunting license.
This is not to say that's it's common sense to ban it, as you say. But one's opinion of what is and is not common sense is heavily influenced by where they live.
This is also why I think that an overarching gun control law isn't going to be universal across the Pact Worlds. It will be local to the area. I see the Pact Worlds as a lot like the EU: individual governments that have all agreed to the same treaties. So while they all agree to work with each other and protect each other, they all have their own individual laws and regulations. Some will allow open carry (Absolom Station is an excellent example), some will ban weapons altogether.
I see Absolom Station as more akin to the US, where open carry is allowed throughout most of it, but some sections of it will be more strict.
I've noticed that the term "assault rifle" is absent from all text, but there is an "assault hammer". I plan on having some fun with this.
Absolum Station would have High levels of gun related suicides, moderate levels of individual gun related homicides, but low levels of public shootings by legal gun owners. You know just like in the US ;-p
with the powerful abadarcorp gun lobby around i can't see the pact council trying to restrict gun trade very much, although individual worlds probably have varying laws.
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with the powerful abadarcorp gun lobby around i can't see the pact council trying to restrict gun trade very much, although individual worlds probably have varying laws.
If we're bringing Gods into it, then in a rare moment of agreement with Abadar I'd bet Weydan isn't too hot on laws that say only people approved of by those in power get to be armed. Oras seems singularly unlikely to be cool with weapons restrictions, too.
That's three Gods likely to be unhappy with the idea off the top of my head, and I actually can't think of a single one of the main Gods who'd legitimately be in favor of weapon restrictions beyond the basic level based stuff.
low levels of public shootings by legal gun owners
Have you SEEN a Player Character?
PCs aren't exactly typical.low levels of public shootings by legal gun ownersHave you SEEN a Player Character?
You can say that again.
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Aren't the basic level based restrictions supposed to represent such laws anyways, just more abstractly. Higher level characters have the status and connections to get permits and such - either legally or otherwise.
Yes. This does leave at least level 1 and 2 weapons as effectively not requiring permits (or only requiring permits that are casually easy for anyone to get).
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I've cleaned up my earlier thoughts about arms control in the Starfinder setting and published them as a blog post. I hope you will find them useful!
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By "large portion of the modern world" you really mean "one country of the modern world," right? Because it's really just an American thing. The vast majority of developed nations don't allow it without a permit or special need. And I can't find evidence of any other developed nation allowing it.
As a note, the rules do specifically say that part of the level system is assuming you have acquired the proper permits. Unless you're playing an outlaw-type character, in which case you'll have trouble with the Law anyways.
with the powerful abadarcorp gun lobby around i can't see the pact council trying to restrict gun trade very much, although individual worlds probably have varying laws.If we're bringing Gods into it, then in a rare moment of agreement with Abadar I'd bet Weydan isn't too hot on laws that say only people approved of by those in power get to be armed. Oras seems singularly unlikely to be cool with weapons restrictions, too.
That's three Gods likely to be unhappy with the idea off the top of my head, and I actually can't think of a single one of the main Gods who'd legitimately be in favor of weapon restrictions beyond the basic level based stuff.
I'm now picturing followers of Damoritosh, especially Vesk followers, filing law-suits over religious discrimination against any government with firearms restrictions.
I've cleaned up my earlier thoughts about arms control in the Starfinder setting and published them as a blog post. I hope you will find them useful!
Sound points and a good read - thanks for putting this together (will definitely influence my SF campaign).
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By "large portion of the modern world" you really mean "one country of the modern world," right?Yup. By "large portion of the world" I did indeed mean the majority of the world's 3rd largest country by population. That's a pretty significant portion.Hold on a minute, let me check Wikipedia... 325 millions of americans... 7,5 billion humans on Earth... Yup, about 4,3% of humans on Earth are americains, "pretty significiant portion" of humankind indeed. I'm sure the 95,7% of other humans will agree with you on this subject.
Numbers are a pretty misleading thing when taken in a vacuum, amiright ?
Depends on what you mean by 'the modern world'. If we're talking industrialized First World nations (and we maybe should be since the original suggestion was all about all 'advanced modern countries' having gun control), the US is a much larger portion. Heck, going by Human Development Index, and saying countries with a 0.9 or higher fall under 'modern world', we're talking less than 10% of the world's population falling into that category.
The U.S. is a very large percentage of that group.
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Hold on a minute, let me check Wikipedia... 325 millions of americans... 7,5 billion humans on Earth... Yup, about 4,3% of humans on Earth are americains, "pretty significiant portion" of humankind indeed. I'm sure the 95,7% of other humans will agree with you on this subject.
Numbers are a pretty misleading thing when taken in a vacuum, amiright ?
Except the United States also isn't the only part of the world with low-regulation or highly distributed firearms.
And on a planetary scale, 4.3% is a lot.
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By "large portion of the modern world" you really mean "one country of the modern world," right?Yup. By "large portion of the world" I did indeed mean the majority of the world's 3rd largest country by population. That's a pretty significant portion.Hold on a minute, let me check Wikipedia... 325 millions of americans... 7,5 billion humans on Earth... Yup, about 4,3% of humans on Earth are americains, "pretty significiant portion" of humankind indeed. I'm sure the 95,7% of other humans will agree with you on this subject.
Numbers are a pretty misleading thing when taken in a vacuum, amiright ?
Jurassic Pratt is right in that regard. Since we're talking modernized nations, and roughly 10-15% of the world is modernized, then the world population we're talking about is closer to the 1B mark than the 8B mark. And with roughly 3.5M US, that's around 30-40% of the modern world where open carry is legal.
Which bring us back to the point that both Jurassic Pratt and I were making (despite our quibbling over details): it isn't common sense one way or the other. What one views as "common sense" in this subject is heavily influence by where you live, and roughly half the modern world disagrees with itself.
Which bring us back to the point that both Jurassic Pratt and I were making (despite our quibbling over details): it isn't common sense one way or the other. What one views as "common sense" in this subject is heavily influence by where you live, and roughly half the modern world disagrees with itself.
Indeed.
Which brings me back to my point.
Which is some places might have gun control, where it is feasible to restrict access and thus control who is allowed is allowed to have guns. But I highly doubt we would see planet wide and certainly not pact world wide restrictions on carrying weapons. It simply would be unenforceable, even if it were against the law.
You're better off having "safe zones" were access in and out of an area is more regulated, which allows you to regulate weapons availability.
But when a smuggler can just use the drift to get your planet and land to distribute some weaponry it makes trying to regulate weaponry on a planet wide scale a losing proposition.
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But I highly doubt we would see planet wide and certainly not pact world wide restrictions on carrying weapons. It simply would be unenforceable, even if it were against the law.
That brings up a fun thought:
What if we had a security paranoid (but not necessarily competent) society that rules an entire planet. How many ships would be needed to patrol a section of space surrounding the entire planet?
This could be the same answer to how many ships it would take the blockade a planet. What we'd need is the area of a sphere the size we'd want around the planet, and then the sensor range for ships. Then just a calculation of how many ships it takes to get 100% coverage across that area.
I don't have time to look up the data at this moment. Any one else want to have a bit if fun with math?
And let's not forget the magic-users, who are dangerous even when disarmed.
Also, isn't there a technomancer ability where you can conjure a weapon from thin air?
Also, isn't there a technomancer ability where you can conjure a weapon from thin air?
I think it's a spell, as the class ability just creates non-weapons or armor I believe.
Fabricate Tech (Sp)
As a full action, you can expend an unused spell slot to temporarily construct a piece of technological gear from raw magic. You can create any single technological item with a level equal to or less than the level of the expended spell slot × 3, to a maximum of your caster level. The item appears in your hands or in an adjacent square. You can use fuse spells with this magic hack. The size of the item cannot exceed 10 bulk or Medium size, and the quality of the item is average. Treat this as a spell of the same level as the expended spell slot. For example, at 4th level, you could expend a 1st-level spell slot to fabricate an item of up to 3rd level, or you could expend a 2nd-level spell slot to fabricate an item of up to 4th level. The item persists for a number of minutes equal to your technomancer level. At the end of this duration, the item disappears. You can’t create armor, weapons, magic items, or items with limited uses or charges (such as batteries, drugs, or fuel) with this hack.
Although looking through the list there is this:
Fabricate Arms (Su)
As a full action, you can expend an unused spell slot to temporarily construct a technological weapon or suit of armor out of raw magic. You can create one suit of armor or weapon with a level equal to or less than the level of the expended spell slot × 3, to a maximum of your caster level. The item appears in your hands, on your person, or in an adjacent square. You can use fuse spells with this magic hack. A weapon can’t be larger than two-handed, and the size of the item can’t exceed 10 bulk. The quality of the item is average for its type. Treat this as a spell of the same level as the expended spell slot. For example, at 10th level, you could expend a 3rd-level spell slot to fabricate a weapon of 9th level or lower, or expend a 4th-level spell slot to fabricate a suit of armor of 10th level or lower. The armor or weapon persists for a number of rounds equal to your technomancer level. At the end of this duration, the item disappears. You are proficient with (but not specialized in) any weapons you create with this ability. You can’t create magic items, weapons made from a special material, or weapons that are expended with use (such as arrows, grenades, or missiles) with this magic hack.
So I was wrong.
Also, isn't there a technomancer ability where you can conjure a weapon from thin air?I think it's a spell, as the class ability just creates non-weapons or armor I believe.
Fabricate Arms is a Magic Hack available at 5th level that creates weapons/armor. Fabricate Tech is the one that makes general tech items, and is available at 2nd level.
Perfect for committing crimes. "What weapon, officer? I swear, you can search me if you want to. I got nothin' to hide."
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"It was crazy. Some maniac with a plasma cannon blew up the place and ran off that way."
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"Why are you looking at me like that? You think I can fit a plasma cannon down my pants or something?
Of course, getting away with this requires that no cameras recorded it - and cameras are cheap.
There are ways of dealing with cameras, but generally you have to think of them in advance.
Of course, getting away with this requires that no cameras recorded it - and cameras are cheap.
There are ways of dealing with cameras, but generally you have to think of them in advance.
Nondetection is a Technomancer spell that defeats cameras.
Disguise Self also makes identification less useful.
Can I just point out that when speaking about spells, we are talking about on-the-fly castings or single person rituals. Magic and hybrid items in the core rules are not everything. I can easily imagine a well-defended area having a True Seeing security system, or a customs station having a magic detector like a RL metal detector.
Yeah, I could very much see 'A lot of extra bulk' being a way to cut down on the cost of a true seeing item. Thus getting you a big metal-detector like device.
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"It was crazy. Some maniac with a plasma cannon blew up the place and ran off that way."
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"Why are you looking at me like that? You think I can fit a plasma cannon down my pants or something?
Sara the Soldier: Hey, you know what would have stopped a maniac with a plasma cannon? A lady with a laser pistol! Or a slugthrower! Or a cryo gun! Or a hunting rifle! Or a scattergun! Or an arc rifle! Or a heavy machine gun! Or a shirren-eye rifle! Or an assload of grenades!
Telkiel the Technomancer: (mandibles clicking) Are you still upset about the security screening?
Sara: Short answer? Yes. Long answer? HELL YES.