Gun control in the Pact Worlds


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Snorb wrote:
Sara: Short answer? Yes. Long answer? HELL YES.

Well if you didn't keep loading your ass with grenades they wouldn't need to do the hands on search.


right. there are two primary gun manage questions. 1) actual prevention - whether it truly is restricting get right of entry to at all (income/smuggling/conjuring/etc) or simply busting human beings on foot down the street with small arsenals.
2)punishment after the reality - you efficiently snuck an illegal weapon in/conjured it/some thing, used it, and now face penalties for doing so.
the primary is in some ways impractical, but the 2nd can stay powerful.check out some of the smart products for gun safe here check best small gun safe https://smartconsumerpicks.com/best-small-gun-safe-reviews.


Shadowkire wrote:
Grenades can't be bundled together, ...

Detonator connected to multiple grenades each, no action to detonate. NPCs even do it in the Dead Suns AP.


Unless the party in question is a police state and is homogenized enough as a system of power to enforce it (which the pact worlds is clearly not) gun control would have to be on done on the local level. I.E specific locations and establishments. It would be just like going to the casinos on the strip in New Vegas. Leave your guns at the check in counter (or stuck somewhere unmentionable).


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Styrofoam wrote:
Shadowkire wrote:
Grenades can't be bundled together, ...
Detonator connected to multiple grenades each, no action to detonate. NPCs even do it in the Dead Suns AP.

Whoah! What page is that on? What's good for the goose is good for the gander!


Ravingdork wrote:
Whoah! What page is that on? What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

Page 32:

Spoiler:
The [redacted] have already installed numerous charges
throughout this area—not yet enough to destroy the building,
but enough to collapse part of the ceiling. The [redacted] currently has a detonator programmed
to these explosives, which she can draw as a move action
and activate with no action.

But if you take a closer look, it's already in the CRB:

"This conical device primes and detonates explosives (including
grenades) with a push of a button.
"

"Programming a detonator
to a specific package of explosives
"

Singular detonator, plural explosives.

There's a discussion somewhat about this down in the Rules section: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v7yr?Grenade-damage-stacking


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The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.


Well, we have to look at the situation in the context of the game world reality. In a world where anyone could suddenly shoot out a lightning bolt of flame burst from a bare hand the idea of disarmament is futile abd puts people with spells or spell like abilities at a real advantage over other people. Aforementioned other people therefore need access to defenses.

Also when extraplanar horrors can more or less just pop into existence of thin air as can happen in starfinder there is just cause for people to hace access to useful amounts of firepower to contain the issue until more powerful defense forces arrice. The above post summed this up pretty well.

Hmmm, ever see those old "Duck and cover" ads they showed people in the 50's and how they trained kids to get under their school desks in event of a nuclear attack? I wonder what the equivalent would be in starfinder. "Hey kids! Do you know what to do in the event of a demonic incursion or an undead assault?"


Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

I'm new here so not familiar with the swarm but full scale nukes? What about a fuel air bomb? Or maybe napalm to burn out biomass sources? Could toxins be developed that were swarm specific?


Well, we don't have FOABs, napalm, or that kind of bioweapon in the books... but we do have nukes.

Plus... you know, nukes!


I, Lucifer wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

I'm new here so not familiar with the swarm but full scale nukes? What about a fuel air bomb? Or maybe napalm to burn out biomass sources? Could toxins be developed that were swarm specific?

Nothing military or weapon related in Starfinder makes any sense, don't even try to think about it. Just accept that people walk around downtown with rocket launchers, that armies do not have standardized equipment but instead change it constantly according to the skill level of a soldier to conform to item levels, tanks having the same weapons as foot soldiers, that an entire planet can't fight off a small army of melee combatants or that somehow a untrained and uncoordinated force of armed civilians have any military value while everyone having access to guns and explosives does not cause violent crime to skyrock like in the real world.


bookrat wrote:

The gun control in the game setting readily explains why everyone keeps picking fights with freaking swords while in the far future.

Seriously - there are freaking lazer rifles! Why would you play a melee focused PC when there are lazers and particle beams? Chalk it up to things I'll never understand. :(

When you are fighting in close quarters on starships and space stations you will likely be in melee range or close to it often + randomly shooting holes in the thing that is keeping you from dying a cold lonely death in space is a bad idea. So if you can do the job with a pointy stick or a sword than it is not unreasonable to do so.


Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

Hell in the pact worlds just look at castroval. Its been "settled" for as long/longer than golarian was but it's ecosystem is so fecund and aggressive that random nasty critters invading or trying to invade towns is still a pretty normal occurrence. Some level of armament is probably expected/required so if something turns up all the locals can respond to it.


kaid wrote:
bookrat wrote:

The gun control in the game setting readily explains why everyone keeps picking fights with freaking swords while in the far future.

Seriously - there are freaking lazer rifles! Why would you play a melee focused PC when there are lazers and particle beams? Chalk it up to things I'll never understand. :(

When you are fighting in close quarters on starships and space stations you will likely be in melee range or close to it often + randomly shooting holes in the thing that is keeping you from dying a cold lonely death in space is a bad idea. So if you can do the job with a pointy stick or a sword than it is not unreasonable to do so.

Don't try to rationalize it. The reason there are swords in SF is because its PF roots and because of its stamina+hp system coupled with short ranges making is virtually impossible to kill anything before it punches you in the face.


I, Lucifer wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

I'm new here so not familiar with the swarm but full scale nukes? What about a fuel air bomb? Or maybe napalm to burn out biomass sources? Could toxins be developed that were swarm specific?

I would think kinetic strikes would be the prefered way to deal with stuff like that. Easy to loft for starfinder level tech easy and cheap. Just have big pods of telephone pole sized metal rods with a bit of heat shielding and a tiny guidance package to get them on target. Can scale the damage up to nuke scale with no fallout or nasty side effects.


Ixal wrote:
kaid wrote:
bookrat wrote:

The gun control in the game setting readily explains why everyone keeps picking fights with freaking swords while in the far future.

Seriously - there are freaking lazer rifles! Why would you play a melee focused PC when there are lazers and particle beams? Chalk it up to things I'll never understand. :(

When you are fighting in close quarters on starships and space stations you will likely be in melee range or close to it often + randomly shooting holes in the thing that is keeping you from dying a cold lonely death in space is a bad idea. So if you can do the job with a pointy stick or a sword than it is not unreasonable to do so.
Don't try to rationalize it. The reason there are swords in SF is because its PF roots and because of its stamina+hp system coupled with short ranges making is virtually impossible to kill anything before it punches you in the face.

Pretty common reason in a lot of space opera type stuff for melee weapons is the whole punching holes into the thing keeping your air in and you alive is frowned upon.


Ixal wrote:
I, Lucifer wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

I'm new here so not familiar with the swarm but full scale nukes? What about a fuel air bomb? Or maybe napalm to burn out biomass sources? Could toxins be developed that were swarm specific?
Nothing military or weapon related in Starfinder makes any sense, don't even try to think about it. Just accept that people walk around downtown with rocket launchers, that armies do not have standardized equipment but instead change it constantly according to the skill level of a soldier to conform to item levels, tanks having the same weapons as foot soldiers, that an entire planet can't fight off a small army of melee combatants or that somehow a untrained and uncoordinated force of armed civilians have any military value while everyone having access to guns...

Idk, this kinda seems like a mish mosh of misconceptions. I'm pretty sure almost none of this is the narrative they are going for.


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kaid wrote:
I, Lucifer wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

The Swarm ecology article in Attack of the Swarm!'s first volume makes a strong case for mandatory gun possession in every system that fears attack by the Swarm or has experienced it in the past.

A small landing force can immediately start converting biomass (including killed humanoids) into new Swarm components, some of which reach full maturity 60 hours after starting. Nuking the swarm from orbit (it's the only way to be sure) or quickly mustering overwhelming land forces to eliminate beachheads seem to be the only practical methods to win once they've landed and started growing reinforcements in situ at an exponential growth rate.

If everyone in your 1,000,000 citizen city is armed, maybe 50,000 Swarm components all mind linked to instantly know the tactical disposition of every opponent one of them sees won't quickly overrun the entire city and convert their biomass into 250,000 new Swarm components. If they can hold out for a while you can nuke all of your rural areas where the Swarm is growing unhindered and hope to win the battle of attrition in your population centers. If not, you need to nuke your cities under attack to deprive the Swarm of biomass and further growth.

I'm new here so not familiar with the swarm but full scale nukes? What about a fuel air bomb? Or maybe napalm to burn out biomass sources? Could toxins be developed that were swarm specific?
I would think kinetic strikes would be the prefered way to deal with stuff like that. Easy to loft for starfinder level tech easy and cheap. Just have big pods of telephone pole sized metal rods with a bit of heat shielding and a tiny guidance package to get them on target. Can scale the damage up to nuke scale with no fallout or nasty side effects.

That’s not the way to be sure, though.


Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ixal wrote:


Nothing military or weapon related in Starfinder makes any sense, don't even try to think about it. Just accept that people walk around downtown with rocket launchers, that armies do not have standardized equipment but instead change it constantly according to the skill level of a soldier to conform to item levels, tanks having the same weapons as foot soldiers, that an entire planet can't fight off a small army of melee combatants or that somehow a untrained and uncoordinated force of armed civilians have any military value while everyone having access to guns...
Idk, this kinda seems like a mish mosh of misconceptions. I'm pretty sure almost none of this is the narrative they are going for.

Except it is.

1. Several adventures make it clear that the expectation is that the PCs are fully armed even in civilian zones (Signal of Screams AP for example and at that level rocket launchers and tank guns are viable equipment choices).

2. Everything conforms to item levels in case the PCs fights them. That means even soldiers are issued equipment based on capabilities (level) and not roles.

3. The tank and artillery in the vehicle section of Armoury have the same weapon as normal characters (Impact Cannon if I remember right).

4. That is what happens in lore and in the Attack of the Swarm AP, even though the swarm lacks a lot of capabilities like range or fast movement. A company of hover armored vehicles could fly circles around them and kill them as they come. Not to mention that a full sized planet would have population in the billions, which means a potential army of tens of millions in addition to every robot forces they can produce. Yet in the AP a reinforcment wave of millions is displayed as fatal when in fact anything smaller would hardly make a difference in a planetary battle

5. First level NPCs stay first level NPCs with first level items, so the value of civilians is very limited. Their ammo will also not last very long and it will be impossible to coordinate a city full of untrained civilians which means they would not oppose the swarm as a unified force but as encounter after encounter. Better invest in a large force of combat droids.

Sovereign Court

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Xenocrat wrote:
stuff

I love how you necromancied a two year old thread about gun control with five pages of back content to try to insert a whole new topic. And then you get people reading from the start and responding to post #3


I'm a FNG here and found this thread thought provoking.


Ixal wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ixal wrote:


Nothing military or weapon related in Starfinder makes any sense, don't even try to think about it. Just accept that people walk around downtown with rocket launchers, that armies do not have standardized equipment but instead change it constantly according to the skill level of a soldier to conform to item levels, tanks having the same weapons as foot soldiers, that an entire planet can't fight off a small army of melee combatants or that somehow a untrained and uncoordinated force of armed civilians have any military value while everyone having access to guns...
Idk, this kinda seems like a mish mosh of misconceptions. I'm pretty sure almost none of this is the narrative they are going for.

Except it is.

1. Several adventures make it clear that the expectation is that the PCs are fully armed even in civilian zones (Signal of Screams AP for example and at that level rocket launchers and tank guns are viable equipment choices).

2. Everything conforms to item levels in case the PCs fights them. That means even soldiers are issued equipment based on capabilities (level) and not roles.

3. The tank and artillery in the vehicle section of Armoury have the same weapon as normal characters (Impact Cannon if I remember right).

4. That is what happens in lore and in the Attack of the Swarm AP, even though the swarm lacks a lot of capabilities like range or fast movement. A company of hover armored vehicles could fly circles around them and kill them as they come. Not to mention that a full sized planet would have population in the billions, which means a potential army of tens of millions in addition to every robot forces they can produce. Yet in the AP a reinforcment wave of millions is displayed as fatal when in fact anything smaller would hardly make a difference in a planetary battle

5. First level NPCs stay first level NPCs with first level items, so the value of civilians is very limited. Their ammo will also not last very long and it...

I really haven't read into the APs, much, so some of what you're saying might be true. I don't think it's so much that anyone can walk around armed in public, because aren't PCs usually exceptions to things like this? Like similar to guards/soldiers carrying weapons in public? What's their role, exactly?

I haven't looked into the encounters and what item levels they carry. Are they the same exact encounters with scaled up equipment? That sounds weird if that's true.

It's technically true that PCs can wield a weapon of the same name and level that a tank does. Considering the item level of the hovertank's weapon (14) it's really more that PCs can wield tank weapons as opposed to tanks being strapped with handheld weapons. A 14th level weapon is way too high level to be considered as a standard foot soldier's weapon, and the weapons are also resized to fit the vehicle (gargantuan). I hope you didn't actually think they had miniature weapons stuck on them xD

I've looked at the swarm and some of them reach rather high CRs (16) and some even have starship statistics (dreadlancer). I'd have to read the circumstances, but right now it doesn't seem too unbelievable that they somehow overran a planet.

As for #5, I honestly have no clue what's going on here, lol.


Let's not forget a low level mechanic can take a 1d4 popgun and add 1d6 to but nakibg it far more powerful. A low level technomage can take a rifke abd add 4d6 to it's damage making it something that can probably threaten a medium vehicle. A mechanic with technomatic dabbler can add 5d6 to a weapon.

Magic makes organized militaries tricky as mages can make weapons abd make them more powerful than they could reasonably be. Also givenbtgat high mages are powerful people uts kibda hard to coerce them into service if they don't want to be. Try drafting a level 20 technomancer or mage. He can resist coercion abd force. You don't want to abtagonize him.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly, that's true for a level 20 *anything*. Sure, a Level 20 Soldier may not be able to through a fireball at you. He can still probably kill your press gang in his underwear while wielding a bottle of Vesk ale.

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