Silver Dragon

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Not a specific episode of a specific series, but when I was talking to the group about their ship, I said:
"Do you want the Serenity, the Millennium Falcon, Moya, or the Rocinante?"
Translation: Sure, you can have a more capable ship than the initial rules allow, but the more capable, the more folks are after you because of it.

I have plans sketched out for a couple sessions that'll be vaguely based on the pilot mini-series of BSG ('03)...

Sauce987654321 wrote:

Honestly, it's just bad form for the game to allow players to regularly have access to weapons that instantly kill anything, regardless of its CR, and the fact that you wouldn't gain XP is irrelevant. This is why this particular rule exists.

I look at it more as if the PCs have access to that sort of weaponry, then as a GM it's my responsibility to make sure that the PCs have a vested interest in not just using them to nuke the site from orbit. Something within the blast radius that they need intact, or a similar reason.

If not...then why not? Let them nuke the BBEG and move on to more interesting things.

Shinigami02 wrote:

The gap was a long time. Far longer than 433 years. in fact, some people theorize the actual duration of the Gap goes all the way back to before the earliest chronological Pathfinder Adventure Path. An Elf born mere minutes before the Gap started would be long dead by now.

And the length varies depending on where you are.

I think here's a good rule of thumb for the gap: it's however long enough it needs to be to wipe out living/mortal memory. So however long dragons live is probably a good minimum for how long the Gap probably lasted in the Pact Worlds. Undead, petrified people, etc, I think something disrupted them, like written and electronic records were scrambled.

I'd argue against the strength. Usually the beefy ones you see are trained soldiers. Plus, the Thanagarians from DC (at least the DCAU version I'm most familiar with) were trained soldiers, and implied bio-modifications (in fact, IIRC, weren't the wings themselves bio-tech implants?). +dex/-con makes sense because, if nothing else, making them naturally flight capable has some weight sacrifices. Either that or -strength because their muscle mass is being taken up by the wings.

Really, it does depend on how much flight is considered a bonus in the setting, and how badly an unconventional form is a mechanical detriment.

I've never seen new gear, monsters, and such as a "selling point" of the AP. In fact, as a consumer, a player, and a GM, I find it annoying...

I'd prefer something more like Dragonlance's draconians than 4e's dragonborn, if that makes sense...

Since a lot of outsiders already have a good chunk of energy resistances, energy weapons like lasers or cryo guns don't make much sense. Plus, one could say that their weapons are formed with the rest of their bodies when they arrive in a place, so what looks like 6 +whatever swords in pathfinder could be ultraserated or molecular rift swords in Starfinder.

Doom (especially the recent version) a good example in both ways. Sure, there's the mancubus or cyberdemon with their modern (ish) stuff, but there's also the imp with just it's natural abilities to jump around and throw fireballs.

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I would argue that the appearance of the armor is not entirely narrative. Or rather, it's an example of why "narrative" and "mechanics" are interwoven. I can think of a couple ways that a set armor (or weapon) form can cause issues or provide benefits for characters. Big ones involve reputation ("the mysterious hero always has golden armor with massive shoulder plates") or law enforcement ("the embassy was robbed by a solarian with purple armor with spikes here, here, and here.").

That being said, if someone wants to change it, I would, as a GM, say that if they intend to change their armor style at their next level up, then it makes sense that before then they are making a conscious effort to make the change. So they can summon their armor, but if they want to change its appearance, the summoning is a standard or full round action, rather than a move action, to reflect the concentration (cognitive restructuring, in a sense).

BTW, charisma as a stat for their abilities makes sense, since they are all about forcing their will on the fabric of the universe. I've been saying since 3.0 released that charisma should be considered "offensive willpower," no more and no less (usually in arguments about appearance being in stats, but that's neither here nor there).

Huh... Actually, I can see the idea of the mechanic being somewhat (or entirely) mute, and all speaking is really the exo, and the question of which one is the self-aware, and which the companion, being a "sure, why not" thing for a GM. The consciousness of an AI in the case of the mechanic class seems to be more about independence than characterization, from a mechanics standpoint.

Personally, I had imagined the Exocortex to be somewhere between SAM in ME:Andromeda and the implanted combat computers from the COBRA novels, with the latter being low level, advancing toward the former as the character progresses.

And now I also have this odd idea for a solider turned mechanic based on the main character from Path of the Fury...

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Shinigami02 wrote:
While this works for a home-game of course, for anything more broad than that there has been absolutely nothing to even imply that the "Gods need Worshipers" thing is even a thing in Path/Starfinder default setting.

If anything, they avert that pretty hard in a number of places. Which is good, because I was getting sick of that trope in fantasy.

Yakman wrote:

well... it used to be that trade from the Jade Space Empire was infrequent such as it was, but it was done, and there was commerce.

AND THEN the Jade Space Regent came along, and took over. And he sent oni devils into the Drift and shut down all the Drift beacons... and the Jade Space Empire was isolated from the rest of the Vast.

Now, the PCs have to navigate along the cold outer edge of the galaxy, following ancient drift beacons WHICH MAY PREDATE TRIUNE AND THE GAP to enter the Jade Space Empire and put whateverherspacename is on the throne.

Right now you have a frontier system that was not settled from the Pact Worlds, despite being of similar makeup. Vast colony ships still drift among the stations and habitats, but the travel happened during the Gap, so no one really knows where they came from, and they've gradually been stripped of useful technology.

Then the Oni send their minions to find something on the ship... And a friend/fence for the PCs turns out to be a direct descendant of the leader of the colony fleet...

I'm thinking that the Oni, given their... issues with other planes, are not able to enter the Drift, even if they're on a ship that can. So they need to send minions, advance scouts, to set up their own beacons to instantly teleport to the destination with their powers.

"Life here did not begin in the Pact Worlds, it began somewhere out there, in the Vast. And we mean to reclaim it."

We'll see how things develop, how the PCs respond to motivation...

HWalsh wrote:

I'm pretty sure magic just fundamentally changed.

I feel like discussions about "magic must have changed" are the Starfinder equivalent of the Star Trek "debate" about the klingon makeup changing, and people insisting that there was an in-story reason for it. When there actually was an in-universe conversation about it in DS9, it broke disbelief, and took what could have been a good episode and ruined it. That Enterprise made it a major plot line was a reason I stayed away.

Who says there's no split between arcane and divine magic? There's just no MECHANICAL split. See recent editions of Shadowrun and how they reduced or eliminated the mechanical differences between mages and shamans. Or, if you want a mechanical reason, it's because as learning and science grew, magic was analyzed like just another fundamental force, and from that understanding came new ways of learning how to use it. These new techniques mean that the methods of use are the same, no matter where the power comes from. (Which I think is exactly what they said in the core rules...)

So yeah, put me in the "don't care about 7-9 level magic" crowd. The important stuff from those levels can be made into more limited use abilities like Wish and Miracle. It's like the weapon enchantments getting rid of the +1/2/3/4/5, which became less necessary from a balance perspective after DR was changed from needing said +1/2/3/4/5 to flat "magic" or material based.

Put another way: Starfinder purged a lot of holdouts in the rules that have annoyed me since 2nd Edition D&D, and unlike 5e or the SW "Saga Edition," it didn't put others back in...

That's sort of what I'm doing. I'm converting Jade Regent into Starfinder, with the caravan being replaced by a BattleStar Galactica type refugee fleet. (And maybe we'll actually have a second session, but my group can be erratic.) I'm just making it several systems, and only need to come up with some reason why they can't just ride a drift beacon back to the Pact Worlds (beyond "big nasties can follow us back there, and the Pact Worlds can't fight off ANOTHER invasion").

It doesn't work for all the starstone deities, but it would explain why Cayden was able to complete the test while drunk...

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:
I'd say you keep your current stuff and advance as if themeless, from a GM point of view

Either that or start over with a different theme, like multiclassing, so if you do this between 2nd and 5th level, at 6th you get the 1st level ability of a new theme.

Has there been anything mentioned about the Androffans? I don't directly recall them being mentioned. If nothing else, Mass Effect like archeotech would be interesting things to explore/find.

But, anyway, another option is that the the tech around Numeria was consumed during Triune's ascension.

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Am I the only one who imagines larger dragons with space-ship scale power armor?

Ravingdork wrote:

Space is vast, like really vast. And it's mostly empty too. The planes are even more vast.

I imagine the odds of relocating something noteworthy are about as likely as a pile of junk getting grenaded,then the debris flying into the shape of a fully functional airplane by chance.

Which is sort of my argument. Something significant being in the Drift is, in my view, a function of story rather than random chance. More "we need you to go into the Drift and find this" rather than "You're traveling through the drift and see X."

Of course, I can also see certain forces getting trapped in the Drift. Engines burned out, seeking the chunks of other planes as some kind of safe haven. If the chunk is big enough, perhaps settling there...

I like the idea of every ship having an AI, like the ship brains in Schlock Mercenary (and hey, Howard Tayler is doing Munchkin Pathfinder's art, coincidence?). Likely not to that extent, especially with the direct control over systems by the PCs.

I did have an idea of having that dryad-like creature from Alien Archive fill a similar role on the PC's ships, though it would likely be more like Pilot from Farscape than, say, the ship brain from Andromeda or EDI from Mass Effect.

TarkXT wrote:

Also, bear in mind many of those planes we are talking about are quite literally infinite. They only have borders in an esoteric sort of sense.

That's also my thought. Are the chunks from inside or nibbles at their "borders" (as much as infinite spaces have them).

Seems to me, in regards to what a good aligned characters would have issues with, the concerns about drift travel is pretty far below, say...using Charm and Dominate spells. But that's another debate.

That being said, it's never said how quickly the matter is pulled through, or how much. Given that it's based on the length of the jump, I don't imagine it's an instantaneous thing. However, it's possible that artifacts or individual get sucked through. In that case, I imagine there's good money for mortals to be made for assisting outsiders in recovering their lost people or items. (I see good aligned outsiders being more active in this, evil ones are more likely to not care about lost individuals).

Robert G. McCreary wrote:

More information on the Drift will be forthcoming in Starfinder Adventure Path #4: The Ruined Clouds as well as in Pact Worlds.

I hope that means the same information in both, rather than having crucial setting information only in the AP...

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Kalderaan wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Healing isn't a necessity in Starfinder. For one resolve point and 10 minutes of time each player can be back to full health.

It's no longer necessary to have a healer, which I think is great. Those parties with healers can chug along harder and faster than those without.

Ha, I just had the funny image of DocWagon from Shadowrun. Having a healbot on speed-dial when you absolutely need one!

I was thinking of the Defender class back in the old City of Heroes MMO. Don't call them healers if you didn't want a fight (and a sudden loss of all those wonderful buffs).

So, the Core Rules mention things like "Shadow Drives" and using the outer planes to travel faster than light. Clunky, inefficient, and required making deals with certain powers in order to actually use.

So, here's a few thoughts:
1) Is there a reason some groups would continue to use non-Drift drives? The ones that spring to mind are an over-reliance on magic, or an affiliation with a certain planes that makes travel to others painful or dangerous.
2) Can a ship be tracked through the Drift? While traveling through, I imagine once they drop out various divination type spells/abilities and such could become a teleport beacon...

Reason I'm asking is I have an idea for a BSG-style wandering, and I need a reason for them to say "we can't head towards the pact worlds." The idea of leading a new threat (one that doesn't use Drift drive, and may not know enough about it)... Actually, cross between BSG and Halo's Cole Protocol...

So, make sense? Cross between "adventure" and "we need to lose them before we can get home."

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KingGramJohnson wrote:
Here's a thought, do people actually trust the gods when they say that Golarion is safe? What if it was destroyed, maybe even by the gods for some reason or the other. Maybe to stop some truly evil thing from getting loose or something like that? Maybe the gods themselves caused the Gap, and erased that portion of history to keep it from being repeated, or to cause people to forget that it did happen? What proof is there that the planet still exists?

I imagine that's something that a few evil gods would try to say, or perhaps a cult, especially those following the Devourer. For most of the others, that seems contrary to their personalities, natures, and domains.

Just for the record, I'm having flashbacks to the early days of playing Rifts back in the '90s when heavy "nukes" in the core rules had barely enough punch to reliably slag standard infantry armor...

Xenocrat wrote:
The drift isn't devoid of magic, it just can't be reached (or left) via planar travel spells. It's unclear whether summoning spells would work there.

But you know some mad scientist types have been trying...

What if the drift space is akin to the "layers" of hyperspace in some sci-fi (thinking David Weber's stuff, for one)? So the Drift being less a single dimension and more a stack of them, like the 9 Hells or the myriad layers of the Abyss, and such. So the more powerful Drift drives are able to get into "higher" dimensions, cutting the relative travel time, and if you want to intercept someone in-Drift, you have to have a matching (or better) Drift drive.

I'm kinda doing this. I'm running Jade Regent as a Starfinder game, converting it in broad strokes with the various cities and destinations being planets and systems, and the caravan being more a BSG-style refugee fleet. Heading out into the vast unknown to find a new home...

So more like hyperspace from Babylon 5 than Star wars. Hmm... there is potential, there...

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HunterWulf wrote:

Techni Muyo

Tenchi - Solarian
Reyoko - Solarian
Ayeka - Mystic
Sasami - Mystic
Washu - Technomancer/Mechanic
Mihonsi - Operative
Kiyone - Operative
Ryo-Ohki - Space Ship

I'd argue Ayeka is more an Envoy with the Connection Inkling feat. and Washu is an avatar of Triune...

Switching gears, here's my take on the FF8 main cast, since that's the one that seems to fit best (not sure about 13, yet):
Squall, Seifer, Irvine: Soldier.
Zell: Mechanic (possibly soldier multiclass)
Quistis: Operative
Selphie: Envoy
Rinoa: Mystic

And Xenogears:
Fei: Solarian
Elly: Mystic
Citan: Operative
Bart: Soldier
Rico: Soldier
Billy: Envoy
Emeralda: Technomancer (or a really odd build of an android Solarian)

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KingGramJohnson wrote:
Slyme wrote:

I know exactly what happened...

** spoiler omitted **

How awesome would it be if that really was the answer?! Some idiot somewhere just hit a big red button somewhere and boom thousands of years of history is just gone. I bet the gods were embarrassed and that's why they don't talk about it. LOL!

To paraphrase Sir Terry Pratchett, if there were a button labeled "end of the world, do not push," the paint would not have time to dry.

One of my goals is to make a combat-focused Technomancer based on Nanoha Takamachi...

Besides that, a few other extreme examples:
Mystic would be like Zahn from Farscape, Yoda, or (in attitude, at least) Delen from Babylon 5.
Solarians are any monk-types with powers. Rangers from Babylon 5 with Mass Effect Biotics.
Mechanic would be like Gaige from Borderlands 2 for the drone. The Exocortex reminds me of the Pathfinders from Mass Effect Andromeda.

CactusUnicorn wrote:
What ice belt? There is definitely no ice belt. I mean, there couldn't be a gathering of ice elementals using cloaking technology given to them by the Azlanti Empire there waiting to attack the Pact Worlds. That's impossible.

Please. Everyone knows the ice belt was consumed in The Incident during the heyday of experimental FTL travel during the Gap, which led to a blanket ban on all attempts at FTL travel through the elemental planes.

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Honestly, I felt like the aging effects at times were only there because there were some monsters and conditions in prior games (ghosts, the Haste Spell back in AD&D 2nd, etc) that caused a character to age. So with those removed, they didn't quite need the age categories.

Unless... Hmmm... Is there any time dilation when traveling by Drift?

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Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:

I also recommend the Thundercats reboot from 2011, Evangelion (watch the films, the series is like looking at a great old one getting out of the shower), Space Dandy is goofy fun but definitely a good inspiration. If you can get past the fact the main character is dull as dishwater Tenchi Muyo is interesting. I've heard good things about the Netflix Voltron reboot, but have not seen it.

Thundercats from 2011 and the recent Voltron reboot definitely capture the feel.

Tenchi depends on the series. The first two OVA series and the first TV show (Tenchi Universe) are good and have that science fantasy feel. The second TV series (Tenchi in Tokyo) and the third OVA series are pretty dang horrible. Never saw GXP...

And now thinking about anime that might relate has my mind wandering to Robotech and it's component series, and how to stat up a Cyclone...

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Perhaps they're an experiment in discovering what happened during the Gap, created by rogue scientists using preserved remains found on another Pact World that originated on Galorian. In a twist, they only think they're the heroes reborn, but eventually they are confronted by the souls of the original selves...

Yakman wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:

Golarion disappearing is local. The Gap was universal. It would imply htat if they are related, the Gap caused Golarion's disappearance, rather than vice versa.

we don't know if the gap is universal. it may be confined to the galaxy - which also appears to be the range of the Starstone...

Obviously someone tried to travel faster than light without jumping dimensions, and causality broke.

I'm mundane, and I think this was suggested, but:
1) Just because it's a hit and does damage does not mean it penetrated. Impact still does damage.
2) Unless it's an improvised space suit, sections will automatically seal off. Also, limited self repair as seen in Mass Effect Andromeda's prologue (crack? easy. whole face plate gone? not so much).

David knott 242 wrote:

Meanwhile, any class can take the Priest theme. A Soldier with that theme would definitely have a lot in common with a Paladin.

Priest theme soldier with the arcane assailant primary style comes gets most of the way there. But there's a lack of the "partial" caster option like paladins or rangers or such. There's no in-between of the amateur feats (which are neat, I will say) and a full caster class (arguments of the 6 vs 9 are not something I want to get into; I disagree with some arguments presented, and I'll leave it there).

KingGramJohnson wrote:
Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

My theory: Aroden's death gets re-written out of history, but takes 300 years to kick in.

Meaning Pathfinder is currently in the middle of the first "Gap" until times gets re-wound, Aroden lives, and prophecy goes back to working.

I'm not sure I understand this one. You're saying that Pathfinder takes place during the time of the Gap rather than before it?

I thought that was the idea. The "current day" of PF is in the middle of the Gap, meaning that all the different Adventure Paths.

I mean, look at the description of Triune and...


Oh, ascended BEFORE the Gap. Missed that.

So...there go the major portions of my theory.

OtrovaGomas wrote:
You can roleplay an exocortex to keep some previous memories

Okay, not Starfinder, but that gives me an idea for an android bladeborn Magus in PF...

My understanding is they're a complete blank slate.

I'd like to see a type of monk/fighter type where they are explicitly modifying themselves (biotech or cybernetics) as the source of their powers and bonuses.

I'd also like to see hybrid caster classes, somewhere between the "amateur" feats or the soldier's arcane assailant and the mystic/technomancer. But I admit I've always been fond of Paladins and Magi.

Most of all, I'd like to see a few classes unique to the setting, like the Solarian. Something beyond the easy-to-identify archetypes.

Can I just point out that when speaking about spells, we are talking about on-the-fly castings or single person rituals. Magic and hybrid items in the core rules are not everything. I can easily imagine a well-defended area having a True Seeing security system, or a customs station having a magic detector like a RL metal detector.

The Raven Black wrote:

By teaching FTL travel to mortals which ends up strengthening the drift, Triune is doing a jailer's job

And no god complains about the Drift tearing at their planes because every bit of it helps preventing Rovagug's escape

I might steal this...

Might also explain Asmodeus' decline in influence. This time, he's not the jailer, so the other gods don't have to put up with him...

jack ferencz wrote:
im not certain that the gap and golarion disappearing are necessarily related, or at least im not sure that they were caused by the same thing.

Agreed. Personally, I think the Gap is related to Aroden's death, but I think Golarion's disappearance is related to it's role as the prison of Rov. Those might still be related, but not necessarily.

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They honestly reminded me of a lot of prestige classes: interesting flavor, but not worth the effort and sacrifice. I know the Pathfinder/Starfinder devs don't like PrCs or multi-classing, and it shows... I'd honestly prefer more class options, mixed role classes, half-casters (not just the soldier style or the dabbler feats), and more odd and wondrous things like the Solarian...

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Hey, look on the bright side. We're not playing WH40K, here...

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