Hey guys, I think I may have found a group of players to play with. The only problem is that I dont want to overwhelm them with my nack for exotic races and complicated builds. Additionally, I don't want them to be stuck without a healer.
My question is, what is the best non altered class for healing? Hybrid, Base and Core classes are all okay to use, but no Archetypes if possible.
I want to be a Vanilla Human, Traits are acceptable but not to complicaded. Bonus points if the class can buff AC or Attack for the party. I want to be a fully support cast member, someone who helps them get good, and not be the center of attention.
Life Oracle.
Alternately, a healer-style paladin with lots of lay on hands could work, too, and give you the option of stepping up to fight.
Honestly, 'healing' can be done with CLW wands. It's not something to center a PC around.
If you want a true 'support caster', your best bet is bard or skald. They are actively helping others all the time in combat, it's their shtick. And they are good with skills and other things on top.
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Life Oracles are the top pure healing class and very easy for new players to understand.
Even thou you said no archetypes I would recommend the dual-cursed oracle to show them how a reroll ability works and to save their lives periodically.
The human FCB bonus for oracles is really nice. Pick up a few extra buffing spells and you are good to go.
If you're okay with multiclassing, my recommendation is for an Oradin (Oracle/Paladin multiclass). There's a few ways to build them, but the main idea is to take advantage of the Life Oracle's Life Link ability to transfer damage to yourself, then heal it with a swift action Lay On Hands from Paladin, so you keep your standard actions to hit stuff.
It ends up with high defenses, a high BAB, a lot of immunities and resistances, some solid utility spells, and some of the best healing in the game without turning yourself into a total bandaid box.
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We had a life oracle in a campaign I ran, and the fighter was nearly impossible to drop via hit point damage.
Pretty much all the above.
Oradins are a fantastic way of being a healbot, while also raining down just vengeance and dealing very acceptable levels of damage.
Life Oracle by itself is a solid healbot also, but the strength of the Oradin is the ability to heal, while also dealing damage and healing yourself through swift actions.
Now if by Core you mean CRB only... Cleric, and Bard are your only real option, and honestly... just don't. Buy Wands of CLW, or Infernal healing if your party has questionable morals, but don't devote a Cleric or something to purely healing. It's just poor.
I was moreso referring to base books only. I'm pretty sure the Hybrid Classes were introduced in the Player Handbook 2, so they should be legal. Otherwise I'm really looking for a support class from the Base or Core classes that would work for a character.
Like I said, I don't want the character to be super "OMG LOOK AT ME!" badass character and more of a silent whimper in the background that is the reason why your Fighter is dealing +10 damage per turn and getting healed every turn, but seems otherwise unimportant.
I want my role in the party to be as seemingly impactless as possible, while not becoming completely dead weight. I mean, multiclasses are okay as long as their limited. I don't want to be known as "That Guy" who goes 3 Archetypes with a VMC and completely awesome optimization.
I've seen it mentioned on here a few times, but I was looking at Bard and Oracle. Keeping VMC, Multiclassing, and Alternate Classes to a minimum, what would be the best way of combining the Bard and Oracle classes together?
I would loved to be a cursed singer/dancer who buffs the party with divine songs.
Is there an Evangelist-like archetype for the oracle?
Are 3rd party publisher material allowed? I'm a big fan of Mystical Healer. It's a nice, scalable boost to healing. Ideal for a paladin or oracle.
If I was making a healer, I would go aasimar Life oracle, using the aasimar FC bonus to boost Channel Energy.
Definitely check out the Fey Foundling feat too, especially for paladins.
I made a fun heal-centric human paladin that was pretty fun. He was good at healing and fighting, and he had a decent AC since he used a shield.
Traits:
Magical Knack: paladin
Sword Scion (+1 trait bonus on longsword attack rolls)
Feats:
1. Fey Foundling
1. Power Attack (human bonus feat)
3. Extra Lay on Hands
5. Mystical Healer
It's probably a good beginning for an oradin, too.
Mine was a 15 point buy: 14 Str, 13 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha (includes +2 from human).
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I'm not sure about the level you're playing at, but one of my friends had a 12th level cleric/paladin who specialized in Channel Energy and Lay on Hands. He did indeed take Extra Lay on Hands, Extra Mercy, and Extra Channel.
He only prepared the Cure Wounds spells from his paladin spell list, despite his 26 Charisma.
He also only used Light and Stabilize from the cleric spell list, but I think that was only because having 10 Wisdom limits a cleric to his zeroth-level spells.
Just remember that in-combat healing is generally a very inefficient use of available actions. Unless it's a clutch save, you'll generally have a much better impact on the fight by doing something like casting a buff, hitting something, or summoning some other meatshield.
That's one of the reasons why stuff like Channel Energy and Lay On Hands is good. Channel Energy is an efficient tool for healing the party out of combat, and using Lay On Hands on yourself as a swift action doesn't interfere with your ability to more meaningfully contribute.
If you're looking for something simple, then a Cleric of Sarenrae for the Good and Healing domains (or the better Restoration subdomain) and a decent Strength score should suit you just fine. In the early levels you can stab at things with a spear from behind the fighter while buffing him with the Touch of Good, and later on you'll have enough spells to more reliably have options in combat. Make sure to get some Summoning spells to put various piles of essentially bonus HP on the field (because damage taken by a summon is damage not taken by a PC). A Life Oracle can do more or less the same thing.
Oracle is a base class.
Paladin is core class.
I'm starting to become curious how many people read the posts and how many people reply just by reading the title.... lol
What do you mean?
Got a few suggestions for Oradin. You said, "I want to stick to base books and only a little multiclassing maybe"
I was addressing that both the classes suggested met your criteria.
Hey guys, I think I may have found a group of players to play with. The only problem is that I dont want to overwhelm them with my nack for exotic races and complicated builds. Additionally, I don't want them to be stuck without a healer.
My question is, what is the best non altered class for healing? Hybrid, Base and Core classes are all okay to use, but no Archetypes if possible.
I want to be a Vanilla Human, Traits are acceptable but not to complicaded. Bonus points if the class can buff AC or Attack for the party. I want to be a fully support cast member, someone who helps them get good, and not be the center of attention.
just go cleric. You can grab recovery spells that oracles may gloss over.
Your wis base so no hamming it up.
The biggest complaint about clerics is boring builds. Which is what you want. So a plus downside.
I would recommend dwarf. A dwarf cleric is even more vanilla than a human one. Give yourself 16 str con and wis. Pump wis with levels. Grab crb feats of interest.
Wand of clw is best healing in the game. Your rogue will kiss you for a remove fear spell.
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Life Oracles make excellent healers, plus you can build them into Holy Vindicators (Prestige class) starting around level 8. Holy Vindicators are better healers/buffers than Paladins, do fairly well at battlefield control, are much tankier than pure Clerics/Oracles, and can dish out a fair amount of damage. Also, Life is a MYSTERY not an archetype... vanilla Oracles all get a mystery. And the Life Oracle can take the amazing revelation... Life Link. Which mitigates damage AS IT COMES IN, and won't likely endanger you as you can drop the link as an immediate action.
People talk about how healers are essentially meaningless, talk about how wands make out-of-combat healing capability irrelevant... And while the latter is somewhat true, the former I couldn't disagree with more. I've lost count of how many deaths I've witnessed due to the lack of a combat healer. But PURE healing is often not the best plan, you want to be able to contribute to combat in ways other than healing... such as buffing, debuffing, battlefield control, or fighting. Out of combat healers (ESPECIALLY Life Oracles) tend to be very capable with social stuff.
If your goal is to be pure SUPPORT, then Life Oracle will do you just fine. You'll make a good face outside of combat, and in combat you can heal and buff.
Also not sure about merging Bard and Oracle, even though they both focus on CHA. Maybe as a gestalt (if your game is doing that, ) but I don't see a level dip in either doing either any good, especially if you want any emphasis on healing. You'd kinda have to go a little too far into both classes to be worth it and you'd just end up missing out on a lot of your higher level stuff... and you'd find yourself as a dead weight as soon as you get into those higher levels. On top of that if you go Bard with a level dip in Oracle you get stuck with a curse that NEVER improves.
Bottom line, based on the criteria you've given. I'd strongly suggest you go with a pure Life Oracle with some emphasis on buffing. It'll keep you out of the limelight but still keep you useful. You can consider Holy Vindicator prestige at level 8 to improve your combat abilities a great deal, if you do that I strongly recommend you take Fey Foundling as your first level feat and Life Link as one of your Oracle revelations for that self-healing party-healing. Especially since the Holy Vindicator is an amazing self-healer. Also Magical Knack to make up for the couple of caster levels you lose from Holy Vindicator's progression.
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Best Healer- Life Oracle.
However being a pure healer is an absolutely sub-par way of playing.
Its not the fact an in combat heal is bad. It is just that Pathfinder favors offense. Healing NEVER equals the damage coming in. The enemy has already caused harm, to your party, for your role to come online. It is much better to do everything you can to reduce or stop incoming damage. Killing the enemy before they can act, Controlling the field so they can not get to you, or Mitigation via DR, Resist, and miss chances. These are all via ways to to help prevent the need for as much healing mid combat. Playing this way also make a wand a very viable tool between combats for topping players off.
Remember a ounce or prevention is BETTER than a pound of cure.
Now if your that dead set on healing I recommend making sure your other spells Mitigate damage or help people kill faster or resist the enemy.
All that said I am a bigger fan of the Cleric than the Oracle.
An ounce of prevention IS better than a pound of cure, but a ton of cure is better than a pound of cure.
;-)
Life Oracles are the best simple healers. Oradins or some PrCs might be better complex healers.
You just want to select spells and other abilities to help you mitigate damage.
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I recommend a cleric rather than a life oracle because the cleric gains access to higher level spells before the oracle. Plus the cleric has better saving throws.
The cleric has easier and cheaper access to spells for status removal. An oracle will probably not want to use one of his spells kn\own for a spell he will seldom use, while a cleric can simply prepare the spell one day. The oracle would have to buy a scroll, assuming he can find one.
My question is, what is the best non altered class for healing? Hybrid, Base and Core classes are all okay to use, but no Archetypes if possible.
Best combination here is going to end up being the Oracle class with a Gnome. Humans are great, but you'll be losing a slew of options if you take one over a gnome; plus few players are going to take a gnome character seriously.
Your weakest and most vulnerable option while maximizing your healing potential is the Life Oracle. However, you'll want to also be effective for other things.
My favorite option for this is being a Lunar Oracle with the Spirit Guide [Life] Archetype to get Life Link through the spirit guide. You said you didn't want archetypes, but I'll explain it here. You become a character whose offense can be entirely summed up with the Animal Companion, and considering you can take a Big Cat, which is considered one of the best animal companions in the game, you should be fine.
You focus your attributes on Constitution for HP and Charisma for extra spells, but you want to focus on Constitution. For your first feat, just take Toughness for extra HP.
A Ring of Regeneration more or less makes your build work neigh on godly for healing since so long as people don't die you can just heal them up to full.
Lets look at some numbers:
Lets assume you dump your attribute increases into HP so you become the ultimate healer, and with your emphasis on buffing or healing, your offensive saves are not important.
Con 30 (20+6+4) = +10 HP per level; Con 28 at level 10 = +9 HP per level.
Toughness = +1 hp per level.
Favored Class Bonus = +1 HP per level.
Hit Dice = +5 HP per level, +8 at start.
You could, in theory, have a +6 belt of constitution by level 10, so we'll go with that.
Your HP at lvl 10 = 163 hp.
Your HP at lvl 20 = 343 hp.
Your front-line characters are most likely going to emphasize offense with just enough HP to keep them alive, but lets assume that you have 3 front-line characters with you to stack the deck against you. Lets also say they are all Barbarians.
Hit dice: +7 hp/lvl.
Con: +3 hp/lvl.
Favored class: +1 hp/lvl.
Toughness: +1 hp/lvl.
= 12 (7+3+1+1) / lvl.
Their singular HP at lvl 10 = 125 hp.
Their singular HP at lvl 20 = 245 hp.
Their collective HP at these levels:
10th: 375 hp.
20th: 735 hp.
You wont be able to heal all of them to full with your base HP, but it does mean that you can just keep giving them HP until they either die, the enemy dies, of you run too low on HP because your personal healing and Ring of Regeneration has failed to keep your HP high enough. Still, you'd be effectively losing 14 hp a round with these three guys (15 - 1), and the amount of time it would take for your healing to bleed you dry to where you have to stop would take an absurd amount of time later on: 11 rounds at level 10 and 24 rounds at level 20.
To put this in perspective, this means that the fight has to go on for 11 or 24 rounds straight with each of your barbarian friends taking damage each round. In essence it becomes a race where the enemy has to do your HP in damage to the party for you to be in danger at all, otherwise the fight ends, the "important" characters full heal and you slowly get topped off by your 1/round healing ring or, in a pinch, your healing spells.
There is also the reality that you don't have to do anything for this healing to continue affecting your allies, so you could ready your action each round to use a tower shield to block an enemy's attacks thereby rending yourself nearly immune to attack unless you're being harried by more than one opponent. Of course, that just gives your barbarian friends flanking opportunities.
Do keep in mind that enemies will out damage your healing with ease, and the Life Link is better at healing damage that is spread out instead of concentrated. Still, if the target is focusing entirely on one person, the rest of the party should have no problem dispatching it.
If you're looking for something basic and core -
Cleric with lots of channels. Then pick up the quick channel feat at 5th level. Allows you to channel as a move action.
If you want to assist/buff party, grab the Domain: Luck with the 'Bit of Luck' power.
Building the cleric, suggest you go with a -
14-16 Wisdom (don't really need higher unless you plan on casting offensive type spells.)
16 CHA for your channeling.
And don't forget Selective Channel! You don't want to uber-heal your enemies!
But a real basic healer:
Probably Wis>Cha>Con>Dex>Str>Int
Human Cleric with Healing and Luck domains (or just Luck if you take Evangelist archetype)
1. Extra Channel
1. Selective Channel
3. Extra Channel
5. Quick Channel
Maybe squeeze in Heavy Armor Proficiency in there so you don't have to heal yourself. You should have the cash around level 3 for some full plate. And eventually, you'll be able to get Charisma-boosting items that will give you more channels, too.
Just remember you don't want to be too passive. Preventing damage is better than healing it, so boost your allies' defenses and try to prevent your enemies from hurting them with de-buffs, direct damage, or battlefield control.
I'm partial counterspelling, but that's also quasi-passive and really dependent on the campaign's opponents.
What do you mean?
Got a few suggestions for Oradin. You said, "I want to stick to base books and only a little multiclassing maybe"
I was addressing that both the classes suggested met your criteria.
Was referring to the fact that only one person even mentioned my request for a divine cursed singer, and was little more than a sentence lol.
I'll look at the Evangelist archetype. I'm just really sad I can't be an Oracle with Dancing skillz.
There's nothing stopping you from reflavoring the Oracle's powers into singing, and they got a curse built into their class features.
Perfect! Then level 3 feat is open for Heavy Armor Proficiency or something less boring than the same feat twice! :-D
What do you mean?
Got a few suggestions for Oradin. You said, "I want to stick to base books and only a little multiclassing maybe"
I was addressing that both the classes suggested met your criteria.Was referring to the fact that only one person even mentioned my request for a divine cursed singer, and was little more than a sentence lol.
I'll look at the Evangelist archetype. I'm just really sad I can't be an Oracle with Dancing skillz.
This reminds me of one of the favorite characters that I've ever played. Gnome Oracle of Life with the Magical Linguist and Gift of Tongues traits. Took the Tongues curse and applied the gnome FCB to speed up its progression. I also took the Eldritch Heritage line for the Maestro bloodline.
I ended up having an astronomically high Diplomacy score, a flavorfully high Perform score, the ability to basically ignore my curse, and really high DC's on spells like Command and Forbid Action. My contributions to combat consisted of using my bloodline powers to Daze or Enthrall, and using my spells to tell bad guys "no". It managed to be a lot of fun, without stealing anybody's thunder.
Yeah, I wish there was channel-based class. Paladin is close....
I think the human oracle favored class bonus can be helpful in learning condition removal spells.
How about a Hex Channeler witch with the Healing Patron? I know you said you didn't want any archetypes, but the Hex Channeler is pretty basic. You can use the Extra Hex witch to get buffing hexes.
For example, you could take the Healing Hex at 1st level, and maybe spend a feat or two (if human) on Extra Hex to get Fortune and some of the other buffing feats.
I'm not sure it's the best healer, but it can fill out the buffing role as well.
Another thing to consider is the shaman, but it's kind of complicated, which you said you didn't want.
If you plan on doing a lot of "standard action stuff" (casting cures, channel energy, domain/revelation stuff), you might want to look at the Reach Cleric build. Even if you don't heavily invest in the feats, you can still use the tactic with aplomb.
Basically, you use a longspear (or other reach weapon if proficient) and position yourself between the enemies and where the enemies want to go (typically your squishies and archers in the back). You use your move action to move into position, your standard action to cast or channel or whatever, and then use your AoO to attack as they move by or towards you.
Essentially, it maximizes your action economy because you get to cast AND attack during the same round.
Also, if you do go the Evangelist route, you lose medium armor proficiency and shield proficiency, so you want to keep enemies at bay anyways, since you probably won't be rocking the tank in studded leather armor or a chain shirt.
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I'd agree with an Evangelist, maybe with reach, if you want to take a back seat without being bored out of your mind during combat.
You buff, heal and support pretty well, have the best spell progression, and you're fragile enough that it'll encourage your party to protect you and it'll make them feel all the more like heroes when they succeed at it.
You do lose spontaneous cures, which sucks, but there are a ton of ways to make up for that. Channel Energy, Scrolls, Pearls of Power and Wands...
Sadly it seema that my plans have fallen due to situations with the other players. Though thia talk has got me interested in a channel focused build.
Thanks for your help all. I will have fun making a much more complicated channeler.
Yeah, I wish there was channel-based class. Paladin is close....
Hospitaler Paladin/Life Oracle/Holy Vindicator
All the channeling you will ever need, and more.
Oracle gives you a channel pool, Hospitaler gives you a second separate channel pool. Holy Vindicator allows both pools to increase with HV levels.
You'll have weaker casting, but you'll be a overflowing in channels. Add in a Phylactery of Positive Channeling and you're good to go.
Yeah, I wish there was channel-based class. Paladin is close....
Hospitaler Paladin/Life Oracle/Holy Vindicator
All the channeling you will ever need, and more.
Oracle gives you a channel pool, Hospitaler gives you a second separate channel pool. Holy Vindicator allows both pools to increase with HV levels.
You'll have weaker casting, but you'll be a overflowing in channels. Add in a Phylactery of Positive Channeling and you're good to go.
Add in Variant Multiclassing Cavalier (Order of the Stars) for truly impressive channeling/lay on hands that continues to scale with you through all the multiclassing. Bracers of the Merciful Knight are the Phylactery of Positive Channeling for Lay on Hands.
Add in Variant Multiclassing Cavalier (Order of the Stars) for truly impressive channeling/lay on hands that continues to scale with you through all the multiclassing. Bracers of the Merciful Knight are the Phylactery of Positive Channeling for Lay on Hands.
Not seeing how Order of the Star helps here?
EDIT: Nevermind, I see it now, the last bit of Calling.
"In addition, the cavalier adds 1/2 his cavalier level to any levels of paladin or cleric he might possess for the purposes of determining the effects of channel energy or lay on hands."
Add in Variant Multiclassing Cavalier (Order of the Stars) for truly impressive channeling/lay on hands that continues to scale with you through all the multiclassing. Bracers of the Merciful Knight are the Phylactery of Positive Channeling for Lay on Hands.Not seeing how Order of the Star helps here?
EDIT: Nevermind, I see it now, the last bit of Calling.
"In addition, the cavalier adds 1/2 his cavalier level to any levels of paladin or cleric he might possess for the purposes of determining the effects of channel energy or lay on hands."
I know, it's disgusting, isn't it?
I mean, it's half your feats, so it had better be...
I want to go to there!!!
If I ever get to play PF again, I'm going to play an oradin/holy vindicator. :-D
Yeah, I wish there was channel-based class. Paladin is close....
Hospitaler Paladin/Life Oracle/Holy Vindicator
All the channeling you will ever need, and more.
Oracle gives you a channel pool, Hospitaler gives you a second separate channel pool. Holy Vindicator allows both pools to increase with HV levels.
You'll have weaker casting, but you'll be a overflowing in channels. Add in a Phylactery of Positive Channeling and you're good to go.
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Is there a sample build somewhere?
I'm thinking a paladin (Hospitaler) 4/oracle (Life) 3/Holy Vindicator 10 would be fun. Not sure what the last 3 levels should be. Paladin? Oracle?