"Weakest" feat / character option you've actually taken?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Lancer with Improved Critical (Lance). Never rolled a 19 on a charge attack.

Dark Archive

"Lancer with Improved Critical (Lance). Never rolled a 19 on a charge attack."

That's not WEAK, just unlucky.

Scarab Sages

SmiloDan wrote:

I played a chaos gnome wannabe Sherlock Holmes brass dragon shaman (converted from 3.5 to PF) and took a couple feats from the Eberron campaign setting. One was Urban Tracking (which basically boosted the Gather Information part of Diplomacy) and Discern Clues (which let you use Search to find clues). At least I got a free Skill Focus in Diplomacy from being a dragon shaman. So I was really good at an ability I never really got to use. :-P

I miss Dragon Shaman. It a 3.5 class I love but only got to play once in a game that was far too short.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

My shark-man synthesist took Keen Scent as an evolution, which is practically useless, but he's a shark, and that's what they do.

Scarab Sages

Scent is great. Give your archer pheromone arrows, and you have a free +2 circumstance bonus to to hit and damage.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
Scent is great. Give your archer pheromone arrows, and you have a free +2 circumstance bonus to to hit and damage.

Scent may be great, but Keen Scent is the underwater only version :< (I just learned this was a thing a few days ago... )

EDIT: My own weakest option taken was probably Exotic Weapon Proficiency in Flying Blade just to fit a bizarre mental image of my character.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

I have a whip-using inquisitor with improved reposition, just because I wanted to see if it would be useful. It hasn't been great so far (and I mainly end up trying to trip people from range without the feat or just hit them with my morningstar), but I did pull an NPC out of a monkey swarm.


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In my group, I have lost track of how many people play single classed Half-Elves and do not trade out the Multitalented racial feature.


Even despite recent threads heavily advising against it, my next character is going to be a Spellslinger in our Strange Aeons campaign. I just can't get over the coolness and thematic appropriateness of a trenchcoat-wearing, gun-wielding wizard.

(Although, I am doing my best to optimize it so that I'm still viable)

Build:

Mabrile
Human Wizard (Spellslinger)/Variant Multiclass Battle Oracle

Starting stats (20 point buy)
S7, D16, C12, I18, W12, Ch10

Notable houserules
The World is Square feat tax variant

The build concept:
VMC Battle Oracle grants access to Skill at Arms at level 3, which instantly meets the martial prerequisites for Eldritch Knight without needing to dip out of wizard, allowing access to Eldritch Knight starting at level 6. At level 10, dip back over to wizard for 1 level to delay Eldritch Knight bonus feat acquisition by 1 level to align with feat prerequisites. By level 9, BAB catches up with 3/4 characters. By level 13, BAB exceeds them.

Notable Trait:
Magical Lineage (Disintegrate)

Feats:
1 - Amateur Gunslinger (Quick Clear), Precise Shot (see World is Square houserules, above)
5 - Reach Spell, Spell Penetration (Wizard 5)
6 - Rapid Reload (Pistols) (Eldritch Knight 1)
9 - Maximize Spell
11 - Improved Critical (Ray) (Eldritch Knight 5)
13 - Quicken Spell
15 - Retrain Precise Shot to Spell Perfection (Disintegrate), retrain Amateur Gunslinger to Spell Focus (Transmutation) at some later point/first opportunity, Precise Shot (Eldritch Knight 9)
17 - Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation)

Battle plan:

Early game, you're a wizard with a gun. You're quite a bit worse-off than a regular wizard most of the time, but your basic attack is better.

As you level, your blasts (rays, ranged touch, lines, and cones) start to become significantly better due to the increase attack roll and DC boost provided by Arcane Gun.

As you become an Eldritch Knight, your survivability jumps dramatically, as does your accuracy, thanks to the Hit Die and BAB boost. Bonus feats help your feat-starved build.

By level 9, you're approaching a D8 Hit Die 3/4 BAB class in terms of hp and BAB, but what you're missing in class features, you're making up for in spellcasting as an 8th level wizard. The spell loss from not being a specialist is becoming less and less relevant.

At level 15, your trait finally comes online thanks to Spell Perfection (Disintegrate). Thanks to Arcane Gun, you're enjoying a +5 to hit and to the save DC of your disintegrates, which thanks to Spell Perfection and Arcane Gun, have an 18-20 (x3) crit range. You can open with a freely maximized disintegrate, enjoying a +23 to hit touch AC, with an expected save DC of around 32 (this will jump to 34 at 17, and will of course be higher once you improve your Int with wishes. A 36 DC is probably not unreasonable by level 17.)

At 15, your maximized disintegrate is dealing 168 damage (504 on a crit), and you can follow that up with a quickened disintegrate, or a swift-action maximized disintegrate if you're lucky enough to crit with your first one (after level 16.) The damage, of course, only continues to get better.

Bit of a one-trick pony, and comes online late... except for the fact that the rest of the time, you're still a wizard with a great spell list, high hp and bab.

So, kind of a late-bloomer, but should be viable at all stages of the game regardless.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

David knott 242 wrote:

In my group, I have lost track of how many people play single classed Half-Elves and do not trade out the Multitalented racial feature.

There's not a lot of good trades for just Multitalented - almost as if the designers knew it would be a no-brainer trade out. The only one in the ARG only helps you if you are an arcane spellcaster, and then the benefit is minor.

Most other trades trade out Multitalented and something else, so if you want the something else you're stuck.


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Arcane Training is a no-brainer if you are an arcane spellcaster and do not intend to multiclass.

Jungle Affinity is better than nothing for any half-elf who has no intention of multiclassing.

However, Heroes of the Wild provided the definitive option for single classed non-arcane half-elves: Fey Thoughts. Two additional class skills generally frees up trait slots for other things.


Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

But even your so-called "definitive option" is blown out of the water by the Blended View racial trait from Blood of Shadows: how would you like to swap out Multitalented for darkvision?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Avoron wrote:

Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

Except that Arcane Training requires the chosen class to be your favored class, so if you choose a class you're not taking you lose out on all favored class bonuses.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Imbicatus wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

I played a chaos gnome wannabe Sherlock Holmes brass dragon shaman (converted from 3.5 to PF) and took a couple feats from the Eberron campaign setting. One was Urban Tracking (which basically boosted the Gather Information part of Diplomacy) and Discern Clues (which let you use Search to find clues). At least I got a free Skill Focus in Diplomacy from being a dragon shaman. So I was really good at an ability I never really got to use. :-P

I miss Dragon Shaman. It a 3.5 class I love but only got to play once in a game that was far too short.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have played a half-giant dragon shaman. I didn't like playing a slow race, and my melee damage was pretty unspectacular. I mostly collected a bunch of random magic items and did lots of tricks in combat using them. Plus buffing, healing, and blasting. It was really fun. We tweaked it a little bit (more skill points, better skills, and some bonus feats besides Skill Focus, mostly breath weapon feats from the Draconomicon.


ryric wrote:
Avoron wrote:

Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

Except that Arcane Training requires the chosen class to be your favored class, so if you choose a class you're not taking you lose out on all favored class bonuses.

If you were putting those FCB points into UMD to use spells, it could be a good trade (witch gives cure wands, and a few other gems). Will come up more often than a 2nd favored class at least.

Back to the original topic: Haven't played yet, but I'm planning magic resistant dwarf oracle of metal. Healing options makes SR less terrible, but still not good.

Scarab Sages

A wild empathy focused druid.

Actually VERY nasty depending on the circumstances. Many scenarios are unequipted to deal with their own pet coming at them thanks to an offer of snausages.


ryric wrote:
Avoron wrote:

Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

Except that Arcane Training requires the chosen class to be your favored class, so if you choose a class you're not taking you lose out on all favored class bonuses.

If you have an excellent alternate favored class bonus, then fine, take that and content yourself with darkvision or extra class skills. Otherwise, a favored class bonus is worth less than a single feat. And I can think of plenty of characters that would spend a feat to use wands without having to make skill checks.


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Avoron wrote:

Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

But even your so-called "definitive option" is blown out of the water by the Blended View racial trait from Blood of Shadows: how would you like to swap out Multitalented for darkvision?

True -- I was going by the Archives of Nethys, who don't have that book in their database yet. So now we have two very good options for nearly any half-elf character to replace Multitalented with.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

David knott 242 wrote:
Avoron wrote:

Arcane Training can also be worth it for non-spellcasters, allowing them to use arcane wands with no investment in UMD.

But even your so-called "definitive option" is blown out of the water by the Blended View racial trait from Blood of Shadows: how would you like to swap out Multitalented for darkvision?

True -- I was going by the Archives of Nethys, who don't have that book in their database yet. So now we have two very good options for nearly any half-elf character to replace Multitalented with.

Sadly both aren't legal for PFS (and yes are great)

Community Manager

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Removed some posts and their responses. This is a public forum, and statements describing how you used a spell to create a "willing girl at basecamp" for your character are 100% not okay.


I have had my ax beak take skill focus knowledge history.

I have a character with the trait pesh addict. You get half the starting gold.

Silver Crusade

Does it have to be on purpose?


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Horse with skill focus: senator?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Horse with skill focus: senator?

And craft (Little Boots)


Liz Courts wrote:
Removed some posts and their responses. This is a public forum, and statements describing how you used a spell to create a "willing girl at basecamp" for your character are 100% not okay.

Sorry.


The Shifty Mongoose wrote:

In an AP, I made up a dwarven (Crossbow) fighter. Rather than take Crossbow Mastery, I was able to make Deadly Aim/Vital Strike readied attacks that sniped enemy spellcasters and shot ninja out of mid-air. I also gave him Master Craftsman ("Legendary Craftsdwarf" as I called it) so that he could make magic weapons for his team.

The GM was apparently frustrated by that guy and what he was doing. So what did she use to hard-counter my PC?

Monks. With Deflect Arrows.

I also had unintentionally got on another player's nerves with my Marksdwarf, so when other PCs died and got replaced, everyone agreed to make him a new PC's Leadership cohort. It all worked out perfectly.

Those monks and their feat were actually just a part of the AP that happened to counter your build very hard, not something custom that I put in. I quite enjoyed Duthner, even if his name was a small nightmare to spell properly (which I likely just misspelled again).


I have a Spiritualist with Cry of Mercy. It's not by any means a strong feat but it's very gratifying to capture particularly fearsome or memorable foes alive. And occasionally mission-critical.


Nameless One

To date, the feat has been nothing but roleplay. And well worth it in my opinion.

Silver Crusade

Green Smashomancer wrote:

I put Gunslinger levels and Ninja levels on the second character I ever made. I split them evenly down the middle.

It was bad.

What went so wrong with this character? On paper the class combination should work: use guns and vanishing trick, target flatfooted touch AC and do very reliable sneak attack damage. Admittedly I would only take one level dip in gunslinger (probably mysterious stranger archetype for CHA synergy) but more gives you bonus feats, dex to damage etc.


supervillan wrote:
Green Smashomancer wrote:

I put Gunslinger levels and Ninja levels on the second character I ever made. I split them evenly down the middle.

It was bad.

What went so wrong with this character? On paper the class combination should work: use guns and vanishing trick, target flatfooted touch AC and do very reliable sneak attack damage. Admittedly I would only take one level dip in gunslinger (probably mysterious stranger archetype for CHA synergy) but more gives you bonus feats, dex to damage etc.

One level won't get you dex to damage and that's the start of the problems.

Vanishing trick gets you a single shot, the 1d6 at level 2 isn't much for one attack a round, and you have limited uses of vanishing trick.

If you don't take more ninja levels you don't get more ki or sneak attack. If you don't take more gunslinger levels you can't get dex to damage. Gunslinger doesn't grant enough abilities that stack well with ninja and the only "synergy" they might have is in Dex. Both want different mental stats in general (though mysterious stranger is an option it also dumps quick clear which is a huge hit).

You are fighting yourself each level to pick which is best.

Silver Crusade

I think I'd be aiming for the ghost blade ninja talent. But having seen ranged sneak attackers struggle in action, I can see where the difficulties lie.

Still thinking of playing an ifrit gunslinger/ninja though. Fire Sight plus smoke bombs! Boom!


I ended up taking critical focus and quick draw on a samurai character (who gets limited forms of those baseline.) Compounding the fact that I was dual-wielding different weapons, even. Definitely not the most optimal character ever, but he was fun.


I (almost) took True Love on one character to make a point to the GM that if he laid a single finger on said character's family for drama and plot hooks, he'd be deliberately shooting me in the foot mechanically. We've since stopped using story feats of that ilk.

I also took Light, Medium and Heavy Armour Proficiency on a wizard character.

Spoiler:
Because I wanted the Taldane Knight feat for a second cohort.


Well, I left the Agile Manuevers feat on my Lyrakien, which allows her to use Dex for Str on combat manuevers, which would be OK if that wasn't already the rule for tiny and smaller characters.

Does that count?


I actually took Blood Reader on my slayer.

The actual reason I chose this talent was to automatically gauge unknown NPCs level of danger, as my character was planned for intrigue.

Intrigue never happens and splitting the party is not allowed (it was, at first, but then the group decided otherwise) so no intrigue.

What I'm actually using this for, now, is against enemies. The best use so far: it tells me an enemy's damage reduction right away.

It also tells me that the GM is lazy with monster stats and always uses average HP


Skill Focus: UMD on my vow of silence/vow of truth Zen Archer. Had planed on using wands until at about half way through 2nd level I realized you have to speak to use a wand. Sad thing is I used the alternate racial trait for humans to trade out the bonus feat for two Skill Focus feats. Spent the other on Profession: Astronomer for day jobs. As a devotee of Zon Kuthon he knows that his god once went into the void and came back different, and he wants to follow in his footsteps. Also, his vow of silence I role play as he cut his own tongue out.


Took cosmopolitan to make Knowledge History and Geography class skills. For how often the two skills checks came up it was pretty useless but it fit the Character concept.

Dark Archive

voska66 wrote:
Took cosmopolitan to make Knowledge History and Geography class skills. For how often the two skills checks came up it was pretty useless but it fit the Character concept.

I did the same with a stag-riding Erastili Animal Domain Cleric who wanted Handle Animal and Ride as class skills (kinda sucks to have an Animal Companion as a class feature, and a sucky out-of-class Handle Animal skill...).

I'd take that feat on every non-bard/rogue character, if I could, because there's *always* a couple of skills that I wish were class skills!

Taking Varisian Trifler or whatever just to get prestidigitation is also a common 'just for the flavor' choice.


I played a wizard who had something like 17 strength from rolling stats, so I took bastard sword proficiency for a laugh.


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Let's see ... I guess the weakest I've done is Master Craftsman to make my barbarian the magic weapons girl of the party. Especially since this also means investing skill ranks.

Aside from that, she's also used her gold for such vital items as a locked strongbox, a journal and pens to write in, the 'experienced priest's' holy text for 25gp, and Apprentice's Cheating Gloves. Because some spells just aren't on the barbarian class spell list ...


I've made a number of sub-optimal choices for the witch I'm currently playing. A strength score of 14 for example. The weakest points in the character stem from redundancies caused by the combination of the Hedge Witch and Herb Witch archetypes and the healing patron. I love how they fit thematically but the Herb Witch's remedies render the Hedge witch's already sub par Empathic Healing and the Remove Disease bonus spell null and void.

Furthermore the Herb Witch pretty much switches out craft alchemy (with a +5 bonus from int) with profession herbalism (with a +0 wis bonus) and forces me to take the cauldron hex with the totally not redundant +4 bonus to alchemy that it grants. Lucky for me my GM is a reasonable human being and immediately agreed that cauldron should give a +4 bonus to herbalism for the Herb Witch.


I got a stern talking-to from my party for taking Versatile Channel with my Cleric without first taking Selective Channel. Then I took Improved Channel at 3rd and have the Sacred Conduit trait. Apparently they have some qualms with getting caught in the eventual Negative Energy bomb I'm gonna set off when I get caught in a mob. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾


Gnome two-weapon fighter with longswords. Halfing rogue using clubs and saps. Dwarven bard that used a kettle drumb or an accordion, specializing in polka music. A human fighter with a halberd. A divination wizard. A cleric with the community domain. A half-dragon commoner specializing in morning star. A 1st edition thief going into bard. Just about anything I play apparently. Oh, an elven black blade magus fighting skeletons and zombies with a bastard sword starting Carrion Crown. Died in the first undead encounter. A barbarian using dual warhammers. A tielfing cleric of Asmodeus with an ADHD GM who switched campaigns.


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I played a druid who took spell focus conjuration in order to get augment summoning. Pretty sure the spell focus feat was never used (since initially I summoned things to fight for me and later on I was using wildshape and buffing myself/AC). It was just considered a feat tax.


These two are upcoming:

Bard with arcane strike and catch-off guard, who won't start out in melee until after a couple rounds buffing the party (in 4 round fights this is effectively after the "real" fight and around the cleanup point).

Feyspeaker Gnome Druid. Yeah, the archetype is terrible. But at the same time, it makes my favorite race go great with my favorite class in addition to being thematically appropriate and working with my preferred playstyle for druid anyways. Also will probably not take big cat/deinonychus companion.


I played a bard with MWP (lance). He was a singing squire.


I went two levels as a primary caster (witch), wielding a weapon I wasn't proficient in (arc pistol), and spending most of my actions shooting things. Honestly worked out okay. Good Dex, arc pistol hitting touch AC, arc pistol getting a bonus against metal or metal-wearing foes, and most of our foes having abysmal touch ACs has ensured that I rarely ever miss, even with my weapon on semi-automatic. That's only become truer since I recently got firearm proficiency from going into the Technomancer PrC.


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I don't think using a 10.000gp item (that comes with a free rapid shot) at lvl2 counts as weak.

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