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Have the party meet an NPC cleric that you control or suggest someone hire an NPC Adept.
We use oradin (paladin multiclassing with oracle). He is damage dealer, heals others by life link ability (no action) and heals himself as swift action (lay on hands).
Most healing is done out of combat and we are using wands of cure light wounds and lesser restoration.
3. Take the cleric out but sprinkle a few bonus appropriate abilities among the other characters to make up for it some. I don't want to make things too easy for them but this seems like a viable option, just have to be careful not to overdo it.
4. Add in enough extra healing/channeling items to make up for not having a cleric. Again seems viable.
I have questions about these two.
Which cleric abilities are you thinking you'd want to sprinkle in?
Having your party pay for a party wand of cure light wounds as needed is about all the healing you really need for everyday healing. Then have a cleric they can go pay to cast remove blindness etc. as needed. The party is probably more capable than GM's give credit for. Also, if they do fail miserably, they know to cover that weakness next time.
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I have always loved playing a cleric, the flavor of it and the abilities, but one thing that always is grating is it is one of the few classes you play that everyone wants to tell you how to play it. Typically these are people that believe in combat healing is an absolute must and forget the pages of other things you can do.
Giving some abilities to other players might help, the old Gestalt format maybe. A NPC can be fun. Perhaps even adding Hero Points to give a bit more survivability. Good luck.
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With Bards, Oracles, Spiritualists, Alchemists, Paladins, Wands, and Kinetic Healers, the old "must have a Cleric!" trope is thankfully gone.
Be what you wanna be!
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Clerics are awesome fun to play, but only in a group that understands you don't NEED a cleric.
If your group thinks you need to have someone spending every turn making up for their poor tactics and patching up his friends, then it isn't any fun at all. Healing in combat should be a rare thing for emergencies when things have gone terribly wrong, not something expected to happen every combat, let alone every round.
For this reason I recommend every group play without a cleric (or other dedicated heal-bot) until they learn that they don't actually need one. Then a cleric can join and actually do something (or even be a healbot if that is what they want and the group wants to employ tactics based on that.)
The main challenge with not having a cleric isn't actually healing, a few wands hands that after a fight is done, it is having all the condition removal, both immediate need and/or no longer than a day or two. Many classes have the these on their lists, but without the clerics powerful all-access prepared casting they might well not be available. Some planning and scrolls can usually handle this pretty well.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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4. Add in enough extra healing/channeling items to make up for not having a cleric.
"Extra"?
Can I ask what your understanding is of how (A) wands, (B) the wealth-by-level guidelines, and (C) the magic item availability settlement rules, function in Pathfinder?
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In my group when we don't have a cleric, we have a "2nd Wind" house rule. Basically, it allows a character to heal 25% of their hit points as a swift action in the round after they drop below 50% (only in that round, so they have to decide whether to use it at that time). They can use this action 4 times per day, and only in combat. This has worked out fairly well and the GM hasn't needed to "add" additional healing treasure (aside from what the players decide to purchase themselves).
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I'm taking you're running it out of the book as written, I.e no increasing CR, adding new abilities to creatures because you think its fun?
If so, thats not a problem about no cleric, it's about them not using common sense. This is not some MMORPG where you get healing keeping up with damage.Condition removal like remove fear, remove paralysis, its needed. A cleric? Nope.
Explain that this is not an MMORPG and they need to use their brains on how to enter combat. Out of combat healing should be handled by CLW(I hope someone has clw on his spell list).And FFS make a wands of CLW/infernal healing available in Sandpoint. My clerics are never healbots. They're fighters, archers, buffbots(fun concept). Yet to do a hangover cleric or a fireball cleric. All in good time.
4 players. The more the cleric shouldn't be a healbot, he needs to carry his own weight. Pass me the party composition of the group, as well as the stats of each member so I can do a more detailed analysis.
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I'll chime in here.
In my experience, the group's need for a dedicated healer is inversely proportional to the group's experience and level of optimization.
If they don't want to play a healer, then they don't get one. As a DM, you can't be afraid to let your players lose every now and then, and they may just surprise you.
What level are your players?
Could one of them take Leadership and gain a cleric cohort?
Could they befriend a temple and get conditional removal from them?
I think we'd need to know what else the group has. As noted, others can play Cure Light Wand easily enough -- paladin, ranger, bard, druid, and that's just off the top of my head. And scrolls plus UMD can make a good difference too.
But if your party is fighter, fighter, wizard, wizard, you may have issues ...
I am currently running an NPC healer in the game I am running as GM. Poor girl has been thru hell twice. Damn near killed in two encounters, but she always has potions they can us on her. It's actually kind of fun for me and the group, plus I could create a character the other characters would know on some level allowing the PCs to be pretty much any race and class they wanted, but still have a common focal point.
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I'm going to give you the radical idea: Steal a healing mechanic from D&D (4th and 5th) and 13th Age.
1) First off, when the party rests for the night, have them heal to full HP.
2) Give them a pool of HP they can draw on, but only out of combat. It takes 30 minutes to rest up and access these HP (meaning they can't do it in dangerous situations), but extends the "adventuring day" without the need for magic items or special abilities.
A good rule of thumb is a potential number of HP equal to their current HP, basically meaning they get 2xHP per day, but not in any one fight. The 5th edition mechanic is they basically get to roll their HD for healing. So a 5th level fighter would get 5d10 (+Con mod to each die) in healing each day. It's essentially double the HP, but within an encounter they're limited to their normal max.
In comparison, 13th Age is a little more high action, so the pool is roughly HPx3.
The Cleric then becomes useful for IN COMBAT healing and removal of status effects. Everyone can get their HP back outside of combat, but they can't fix things like poison, curses, blindness and disease.
This is an extreme option which essentially removes the need for out of combat channels and CLW wands, regardless of whether a cleric is in the party or not.
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So let me get this straight; you feel the party of 4 will need the following stuff:
-Healing
-Channel Energy
-Knowledge Religion
And you don't want anyone to play a single class that can do all of that stuff? When there are other classes that can do that same exact thing, and perhaps then some?
I think you need to understand that you don't necessarily need 2 of those 3 subjects, and the third can be easily fixed with enough skill points and proper modifiers to said skill.
In-Combat Healing is not really a viable combat tactic until the mid-game, and falls off at the end-game due to Rocket Tag (thankfully, I believe RotRL caps off by level 16 or 18, which is when Rocket Tag starts coming online), and that's because of the Heal spell. The Caster Level scaling for a Heal spell is infinitely better than the few measly D8 + Caster Level Cure spells give you, and isn't worthwhile unless a PC is about to get dropped/killed.
Out-of-Combat Healing, although much more necessary, doesn't require a whole hell of a lot of investment or commitment when you have PCs with a Cure Wand and either a proper spellcaster or a party member with very high UMD ranks. This means spellcasters in your party can save their spell slots for more powerful and useful spells, and everybody will still be in good health between fights.
Channel Energy, although invaluable due to its ability to heal multiple allies in the early game, without spending spell slots, falls off and serves as nothing more than an "I love/hate Undead" ability by the mid-game, when Mass Cure spells become available. Although Mass Heal is a 9th level spell, the factor that you can heal upwards of 1,000 hit points across 4 people with a single 9th level spell slot makes Channel Energy serve as a cheap pseudo-Mass Cure Wand. (Or the "I love/hate Undead" ability that just sucks by the late game unless you're using it to eradicate undead mooks surrounding you.)
Knowledge (Religion) doesn't require you to be a Cleric to take ranks or have a good Wisdom modifier to it. A Druid, who has more skill points, can just as easily put points into this, or a Ranger, or a Paladin, or any other high-skill-point class.
The only thing I will mention is important that you didn't mention is the ability to remove status effects. Restoration, Remove Curse/Disease, etc. are all very important spells. Also, lacking a Divine Spellcaster in general sucks, but Divine Spellcaster doesn't automatically mean Cleric.
So far, from what I can tell of the problems you've outlined, they can't already be solved or ignored by the other party members in favor of other, more powerful options. In fact, you glossed over other issues that should be addressed, and can be addressed without someone being a Cleric (though not without someone being a Divine Spellcaster).
Seriously, Druid or Oracle are great substitutions; the Druid even moreso, as they aren't a particularly effective healing class, due to reduced Cure progression (but maintain full status removal progression), and still function as a full Divine Spellcaster.
In my 5th Edition group, my cleric has died twice (once raised by my temple (and I gave them my scroll of raise dead in gratitude), once via wish from a balor-succubus because I had been disintegrated to EXACTLY 0 hit points) and once got petrified (rolled a 01 on my 13% Divine Intervention check). No one else in the party of 6 has been killed out right, disintegrated, or petrified. Just me, the condition remover. Ugh.
Just make the cleric PC of the guy who left an NPC. Play him as someone's follower who hangs back at the basecamp - keeps it safe from wandering trouble and is reasonably available for out of combat healing and removal of diseases/curses/ability damage.
Wands of CLW, lesser restoration, and neutralize poison should go on your shopping list.
As several people have already said the best time for healing is out of combat. This means that a cleric is no longer absolutely necessary for a party. Also what books are allowed in your campaign? Unless you are using only the core rulebook there are a lot of classes that can heal as well if not better than a cleric.
Healing HP is only a small part of what a healer needs to do. As Dave Justus mentioned condition removal is actually more important. While healing HP is more common it is also the easiest to replace or supplement. Wands of cure light wounds are pretty much a staple of the game and are the most economical healing available. Even for condition removal potions and scrolls should be a big part of your healing strategy. If the party is smart they will pool their resources and purchase appropriate magic items. This way the healer is using all his resources for what really should be a group expense.
The life oracles are actually considered to be the best healer in the game. He can out heal even a dedicated cleric without much trouble. Alchemists, Hedge Witches and some Paladin Archetypes can also replace a cleric as the primary healer. The other thing to take into account is that a lot of classes make decent secondary healer. Bards, Inquisitors, Oracles, Rangers, Paladins, and Witches can all heal to some extent. While none of these will be able to carry the entire burden of healing working together they can often heal well enough that a cleric is not needed. Especially if the party is pulling together, to purchase appropriate magic items.
Healing & Knowledge (Religion) I understand, but what makes Channel Energy essential?
1. Just take the cleric out of the game, too bad for the party. This is a little too harsh for me.
This is the correct answer, unless the players are highly inexperienced. They made their choice, and they can live with it.
As stated several times up thread, all of the things a Cleric can do can be achieved with cash or skill points anyway, it just takes a bit more effort than dialing 1-800-HEALBOT and having a bored player Channel or cast CLW every turn.
I would make the argument that in most cases, save removing a disabling condition or perhaps the actual Heal spell, healing in combat tends to be a wasted action, especially given that no real change comes into play until a creature reaches 0 HP. As a cleric, your actions are much better budgeted to buffing, debuffing, summoning, and battlefield control.
Consider the following:
- Clerics are proficient with shields and heavy armor, and can cast in these without penalty. You have a d8 hit die and high Fort/Will saves (which, if I had to pick a save to lose, it would be reflex as its harder to die to a single failed reflex save, though possible). Of the primary casters you are easily the hardest to kill at lower levels due to this.
- You have access to 9 levels of spellcasting, and clerics aren't short on spells cast per day. Additionally, you have access to the ENTIRE cleric spellcasting list when making your spell selection to the day. Compare this to the wizard who's selling point is spell diversity but is ultimately limited to whatever spells he picks on level up and the scrolls and books he can find/purchase.
I have a hard time coming up with reasons not to play a cleric. I suppose its up to the player to find an appealing build and a dogma that suits their playstyle as opposed to the arch-typical virtuous heal-bot.
Clerics are proficient with shields and heavy armor
It's just medium. They don't get heavy proficiency. But your point still is valid.
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It can be great to be a Cleric with either Anger Inquisition, a level of Barbarian, or both.
"Hi, you've reached the party Cleric! I'm afraid I'm not available to rub some dirt on your pathetic and well-deserved wounds right now, as I'm currently in a rage proactively performing a righteous evisceration on the goon that's getting ready to kill you. Please leave your name and number, and I'll see about prodding you with a heal-stick once I'm finished doing your job."
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Why do you need channel energy again? Most traditional APs do not.
If someone told me to play a cleric to be a healbot(unless the setting features lots of incorpreal undead), I'd tell him something rude. Then I might still play a cleric, but a hangover cleric, and deliberately not unselect him out of channel energy.
Shadows won't pursue the PCs out of that room in Thistletop. We did foxglove manor without channeling out any of the haunts. Just need to not stick your nose into around too much when in the manor.
Clerics are proficient with shields and heavy armorIt's just medium. They don't get heavy proficiency. But your point still is valid.
Yikes, showing my 3.5 roots. Thanks!
Why do you need channel energy again? Most traditional APs do not.
If someone told me to play a cleric to be a healbot(unless the setting features lots of incorpreal undead), I'd tell him something rude. Then I might still play a cleric, but a hangover cleric, and deliberately not unselect him out of channel energy.
** spoiler omitted **
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SmiloDan, for a one-off matter? Nice, but not really necessary. Also,fifth edition monsters hit more often, there are less defences that PCs can unleash(where's good ol' combat reflexes). Most clerics won't pack turn undead in PF, also PF undead have channel resistance and a high will save, so it might not have made any difference.
Though that chained fireball+channel sure cleared up the ghast pack neatly. Again, with proper positioning and had I not been sickened earlier, I might have been able to 1-shot up to 3 ghasts as they approached. Combat reflexes and favored enemy undead at +4 bonus is quite the thing.
Point being, there's more then one way to approach a problem, and a problem need not have only a single solution.
Empowerment to clerics! You're more then healbots! Make sure your group chips in for the healing supplies(since its a group thing), so you can use your spells for other things!
As others have said, give them a CLW wand for out of combat healing. Take away the NPC cleric.
Now, for fixing things we need to know the current group composition.
Next time someone wants to come in with someone that helps the party, look at these three options:
1. Reach Cleric. This is just a cleric with a reach weapon and enough strength to utilize it. See the guides section, there is a guide for this. Allows for a better battle cleric.
2. Oradin. An oracle/paladin with life link and excellent Con. It uses Lay on Hands to heal themselves and Life Link to heal others in the group. How much paladin vs. oracle depends on the player.
3. Skald from Advanced Class Guide. Note that they get Spell Kenning at 5th level, which would allow them to do a very limited amount of condition removal.
The group is going to want to continue to allocate funds to CLW wands for the out of combat healing. They need to adjust so that their expectation is that this is the normal way to heal.
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Im impressed nobody wants to play a Tier 1 class, i mean i understand that they dont want to play a specific rol, but why not a cleric.
I think what your players dont want is a "Aid band" class, that is understandable. But a Cleric can be easily built without that, in fact, healing in-combat or preparing a Character only for Healing is sub-optimal. You should remember that to your players, specially Spontaneuos Casting, so the future Cleric knows that he can prepare all the spells he wants, and if necessary change them to Aid band.
I would go with 1, and suggest your friends to hire an Aid Band.
Another option is recruiting a Druid, wich is also very good at healing.
In both these options i would never have the DM controlling the Character, Tier 1 Druid and Cleric have very strong posibilities, and you will find yourself very often playing an NPC character, for the party and solving everything they need for yourself, which is not the point.
Perhaps you could go with 2, but Houserul Leadership and tell your players that someone has to take it. Still, Cohort Cleric is a real WTF for me.
Anyway, remember that Clerics are highly versatil and one of the best classes, so perhaps they having one is too OP for them, therefore making the campaign too easy.
Regards.-
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I can see people not wanting to be a cleric. I had that myself when I joined pathfinder, after I heard that someone removed the cleric's powers for doing somethung that grossly went against the deities tenets(granted, in that situation, that guy had it coming).
But imagine if you're new, and your GM says that because you worship cayden(you might have decided to worship him because you think drinking is cool) and you failed to liberate the slaves in a country where slavery was legal, Cayden no longer looks favorably upon you and took away your powers. How would you feel about it, to have your powers linked to something as arbitary as the GMs whims and fancies?
Then there's this stigma that every cleric must be the group's band aid(esp from new MMORPG crossover players), and if they don't, they're not "playing the class correctly". I wouldn't tolerate people directly telling me how I should play my character(unless I asked them earlier on how to do it), though I might take suggestions(if I'm in a good mood).
Also, some people don't care for the book keeping a prepared caster needs.
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They chose to make a group with no cleric, honor their choice.
My group decided to try the same thing, just to see if we could do it...
It altered the flow of the game significantly until we found ways (in character) to compensate. Some of us multi-classed, most of us started changing our outlook on magic items (healing items become more common).
Ran the campaign until level 15ish with no dedicated healer, had a blast.
If it's only you thinking they 'need' a cleric, then there is no issue with the party.
Relax. Run the game the way you want, but try not to force choices onto your players.
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Table top RPGS are not the same as MMORPGs. You DO NOT need a dedicated healer in a group. What you want are Cure Light Wound wands for actual hit point healing and status removal either through a player or scrolls. That's it. Yes, having someone who can cure and status removal as part of their player's skills is nice to have but it is not mandatory.
I just have to add that you can build a cleric in multiple ways that do no include it being a healbot. In one of my campaigns that is a Pathfinder AP I have an Evangelist cleric and it rocks. Buffs, summons, decent melee damage and yes, even has healing and channeling if necessary which is rarely in use.
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As a GM, you can totally control what monsters the PCs fight. Party doesn't have access to flesh to stone? Maybe don't throw them up against a gorgon. (And don't just have a flesh to stone item as loot from a recent enemy. It's a lame cop-out and everyone knows it. Break enchantment, maybe, but not flesh to stone)
So since the party doesn't have ways to dealing with a wide array of afflictions, use them more sparingly. Bards get remove fear, so that's fine.
Maybe have one tough enemy that uses a rough poison dealing con damage to illustrate to the group "Man, a powerful divine spellcaster sure would be nice in this specific case", but not until they realize that they can live without one regularly.
In fact, it might not even be a bad idea to talk with the party pointedly about it. "Hey guys, since you don't have a cleric, I'm not going to do things damage your ability scores very often. And negative levels? Don't worry about it too much, you're not going to deal with it often."
And then stick to it. Hit them occasionally with things that are surmountable, but could have been much easier with a cleric. Show them how the support can still be the hero sometimes.
Many players don't want to be the support, because they want to be the HERO. Well, every time someone hits only because the inspire courage or the heroism is up, the support IS the hero.
And if down the road you're in a different group or a player decides they DO want to be able to heal as a primary role, cater to that a little. Throw in a little more AoE than usual, so that channel positive energy looks boss.
I'm not saying to always cater to the capabilities of the party. Some fights are fun because the BBEG has something none of the PCs are great at dealing with. The struggle can be fun in its own right.
But everyone likes a little time to shine, and I feel it's your job as DM to make sure they can.
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They should be fine. If you feel nice, let the sorcerer and the bard take the human Favored class bonus of gaining an additional spell known that is at least one level below the highest level of spells they can cast, instead of the bonus hp/skill point, whether they are human or not.
It should give them more versatility, so they can take some condition removal spells. I almost thought they ran all fighters and barbarians, that's why they were looking for a heal bot. The bard can easily out ranks in knowledge religion, he has 6 skill points per level, and even the ranger can have ranks in knowledge nature, geography and dungeoneering. Just need to split up the knowledge skills nicely.
Im impressed nobody wants to play a Tier 1 class, i mean i understand that they dont want to play a specific rol, but why not a cleric.
Not everybody looks at classes as Tiers. Specifically many players tend to look at a cleric not as a nine-level spellcaster, but as "Nurse".
And many guys don't want to play "Nurse".
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Tell them to walk it off