Hi, all! So, I'm looking at rolling a psychic (or *maybe* an occultist) as opposed to an arcane caster, but I'd like to have a familiar as well. Assuming I'm ruling out the new multiclassing rules and that I don't have the CHA for the sorcerer feat-based trick, that seems to leave me with just the "Familiar Bond" tree. BUT... Iron Will and another two feats to get a fully functioning, basic familiar seems pretty weighty, feat-wise. Is it worth doing? Thanks!
3 feats for a familiar seems like too much. There is a trait in the Distant Shores book that counts as Iron Will for the purposes of qualifying for familiar bond but that also seems like a steep cost.
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Familiars are awesome, but iron will for that sub par familiar is a bit much
See if you can convince your DM to let you have "obtain familiar" from 3.5 at level three
But beyond that, the feats Avoron mentioned are good
Also there is the old version of noble scion. Where one of the options gave an imp familiar at level nine
Fluff wise is cool. But honestly, familiars can't do that much.
Animals are limited, so is the bond early levels.
Unless you pick the raven which can speaks, you get a feeling, nothing else. It's not a real scout, can't open doors or asses some dangers.
I know for a fact there's some sort of Cube or sphere if you play a Psion, but can't recall the name of the feat.
What are you looking for in your familiar? The Familiar Bond is extremely limited, lacking almost all of the actual familiar abilities. You might be served just as well throwing some ranks in Handle Animal, and just train an INT 2 animal some useful tricks.
If you do decide to try Occultist, the Necromancy Focus Power called Soulbound Puppet basically gives you the ability to create a temporary Familiar (10 min/lvl for one point of Focus.) It isn't permanent but you can be more risky in its use since you can always just make another if it gets "killed."
Just do the two-feat route. That's enough for a familiar that can talk to you. Get something innocuous, like a cat. Taking Iron Will means you can drop you wisdom a bit during point buy if you want. I'm taking it on my Kineticist, but their low will saves mean it's really more like one feat.
Three feats? Not worth it. You can gain a fully powered animal companion for three feats.
One feat? Absolutely. Familiars are very useful, especially if you take one that can talk.
Two feats? Ehhh, I would probably say no, but I could be persuaded otherwise.
Excellent advice (and a lot to think about); thanks, all! :)
The bonus granted by a familiar type is typically a feat level benefit just by itself itself. For instance, the greensting scorpion gives you the equivalent of improved initiative. In addition to that, having a familiar gives you the benefit of another feat, alertness. So, a familiar gives you 2 feat equivalent abilities, in addition to other benefits of having a tiny scout/distraction.
So, getting a familiar for the price of one feat would be an incredible bargain.
so do you get the familiar bonus from the first familiar feat or do you need the second one to get that bonus?
The House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic) trait also substitutes for the pre-requisite feat.
I have taken that, Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar for a Master Summoner I am playing. And the Versatile Summons feat, with the Aerial Template as one of the options. The improved familiar is an Aerial Wysp.
That specific use is excellent. The Wysp can give conjured creatures with the Aerial Template +2 to hit and damage. The +2 to hit is the real point.
Its a specific thing and many can't or are not playing master summoners I know.
so do you get the familiar bonus from the first familiar feat or do you need the second one to get that bonus?
It does require Improved Familiar Bond to get the master bonus (like the greensting's Initiative bonus), so most these comparisons that state 'one feat for x' are a little deceiving. Essentially, you're going to spend 3 feats to get that bonus (Iron Will, Familiar Bond, Improved Familiar Bond).
The House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic) trait also substitutes for the pre-requisite feat.
I have taken that, Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar for a Master Summoner I am playing.
That's not quite permitted per the rules. While the Trait does act as the Iron Will prerequisite for the Familiar Bond feat... Improved Familiar Bond also has Iron Will as a prerequisite. House of the Green Mothers Pupil doesn't cover that, alas.
VMC Wizard (or Sorceror with the Arcane Bloodline) might be worth considering. Its a whole lot of feats to give up but you also get more back than by going the Familiar Bond route. I consider Conjuration (Teleporttion), Divination, Air and Void as good School choices to get some real value back out of such a large sacrifice.
The Familiar Bond line is pretty steep a cost for just a familiar to be honest, even if I also have an unhealthy love for the little things. If this isn't for PFS you might want to discuss it with your GM, create a mini-archetype of sorts.
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so do you get the familiar bonus from the first familiar feat or do you need the second one to get that bonus?It does require Improved Familiar Bond to get the master bonus (like the greensting's Initiative bonus), so most these comparisons that state 'one feat for x' are a little deceiving. Essentially, you're going to spend 3 feats to get that bonus (Iron Will, Familiar Bond, Improved Familiar Bond).
It's a fairly even trade though.
*Iron Will is useful for almost every class, but there is a trait to sidestep this prereq.*Familiar Bond gives you the benefits of the alertness feat and also a tiny scout/lookout/distraction.
*Improved Familiar Bond gives you the special ability of your familiar's type, which could be a nice +4 to initiative. But also abilities like speak with animals of a certain type and some abilities useful to spell casters.
Improved Familiar bond is the weakest of the 3 feats in my opinion. It might could have given some other rather small boon to your familiar, but it's not a bad chain.
I think it rather depends on how feat-starved your regular class/build is. It costs three feats, yes. But as Melkiador points out, Iron Will is itself a pretty damn useful feat (you'll never regret having higher will saves), Imp. Familiar Bond can easily be equal to another feat (a fox for Lightning Reflexes, a scorpion for Improved Initiative), and Familiar Bond nets you Alertness and a scout.
So... depends. It's not necessarily the most optimized set of feats in the game, but it's hardly worthless, especially for a class that doesn't rely on too many feats (a buffer spellcaster, say). And you can layer on Improved Familiar on top, which can be damn handy with the right familiar.
Melkiador has the right of it. The three feat cost is appropriate for gaining a familiar. As mentioned above, each time you take the feat, you get something back. I know plenty of characters who take Iron Will, considering it's boosting a save you really, really don't want to fail on. Familiar Bond nets Alertness, and everyone uses Perception. Plus, a familiar gives you both a second set of eyes and ears to perform Perception checks, as well as a buddy to constantly give you Aid Another on any skill check or ability check. Improved Familiar is essentially granting another freebie like Improved Initiative or another Iron Will feat.
Totally balanced, in my opinion.
That doesn't even take into account Familiar Archetype abilities such as the Emissary 1/Day Domain ability (which would be like gaining Believers Boon) or a Guardians share damage through Shield Other (+50% HP) and free Bodyguard.
Would improved familiar work straight out from familiar bond (without taking improved familiar bond?)
RAW sure, but don't be too surprised if a GM says no.
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Would improved familiar work straight out from familiar bond (without taking improved familiar bond?)RAW sure, but don't be too surprised if a GM says no.
If I were to take this route, I would want to grab all four feats anyway.
What of taking a familiar archetype, any issues doing so with Familiar Bond? For example, if one wants to take a Sage or Emissary familiar?
No more than taking an archetype when you multiclass. Provided there's nothing that conflicts with the rules, it's fine unless your GM vetos it.
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Would improved familiar work straight out from familiar bond (without taking improved familiar bond?)RAW sure, but don't be too surprised if a GM says no.
The GM would have a pretty solid case against it, too, given this FAQ. Going by that, Improved Familiar works more like an archetype, meaning that your familiar needs the ability to speak with animals of its kind because Improved Familiar swaps it out. The rules text itself doesn't say that it replaces that, though, it only says that an Improved Familiar doesn't gain that ability which is very different.
What of taking a familiar archetype, any issues doing so with Familiar Bond? For example, if one wants to take a Sage or Emissary familiar?
Sage familiar would be fine, but Emissary is not. Emissary swaps out Share Spells and Deliver Touch Spells, neither of which your Familiar gains if granted by that feat.
In fact, Sage is the only archetype your Familiar could get because every other one swaps out something it doesn't have.|
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Ah, but what of Improved Familiar Bond? Of which I will be making sure to get, as it makes it so you are treated as having a full familiar with all its powers and abilities.
Improved Familiar Bond
Your familiar gains all the normal abilities available to a familiar of a wizard with a level equal to your total Hit Dice. You also gain the special ability normally gained by a master of your type of familiar.
Again, I would take the full progression Iron Will, Familiar Bond, and Improved Familiar Bond. More than that though, I feel that one should very much be able to take any familiar archetype after burning three feats. Even if it is by dismissing a previous familiar and getting a new one or simply seeing if a DM might be will to allow an archetype added later.
Don't forget familiar archetypes. There are few things funnier than a guy with a figment of his own imagination being smarter than him (sage figment familiar)
Ah, but what of Improved Familiar Bond? Of which I will be making sure to get, as it makes it so you are treated as having a full familiar with all its powers and abilities.
Ah, that is a bit tricky. The rules on Familiar archetypes are surprisingly bare. They don't mention when you choose them at all. Do you have to choose the Familiar archetype when you first gain access to a Familiar? Can you choose a different archetype when you gain a different Familiar? Can you change the archetype of an existing Familiar?
It does state that it works similarly to class archetypes, though, so changing an existing Familiar's archetype very probably would not be allowed. It wouldn't even make sense in some cases like turning your cat into a Figment cat. However, it seems reasonable to me that you could choose a different archetype if you dismiss your Familiar and get a new one, paying the associated cost of 200 gp per Hit Die.Don't forget familiar archetypes. There are few things funnier than a guy with a figment of his own imagination being smarter than him (sage figment familiar)
Oh man, that seems like a fantastic concept for an insane character. A mind that has been shattered so thoroughly that they have skills and knowledge they can't access, but which also involuntarily created this figment containing their lost knowledge.