I love the concept of arcane archers. I always hoped that the Magus would be able to make a proper one with an archetype, but the Myrmidarch has quite a few flaws. What do you guys think is the best way to make an arcane archer in Pathfinder? Make the best of Myrmidarch or perhaps the Arcane Archer prestige class? Maybe something entirely different?
If you just want a little bit of arcane in your archery for debuffing and battlefield control, Drow Cavern Sniper looks not too shabby.
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Wait until September 30th and buy Heroes of the Streets. It has the Eldritch Archer Magus archetype.
Seconding Eldritch Archer. It looks very nice and is definitely on my list of builds to try out.
Holy crap, thank you so much for pointing that out. That's exactly what I want.
Holy crap, thank you so much for pointing that out.
You are welcome.
That's exactly what I want.
You and me both. The Player Companions are really getting good for those of us that like concepts behind the CRB prestige classes but find the mechanics to be clunky. Dirty Tactics Toolbox did wonders for Arcane Tricksters, and now it looks like we will finally be getting a workable "Arcane Archer."
(I will say that I love the Myrmidarch as a switch-hitter. It just doesn't work well as a dedicated archer.)
I am intrigued, are my favorite prestige classes going to get useable builds? What did the Dirty Tactics Toolbox do for Arcane Tricksters?
(Also how do you go about making the Myrmidarch a solid switch-hitter? Seems difficult)
Dirty Tactics Toolbox brought new feats to help you qualify faster for Arcane Trickster and boost your SA.
I myself am really looking forward to this Eldritch Archer archetype as the arcane archer concept has pretty much been the first thing I wanted to try when I began playing tabletop RPGs.
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I am intrigued, are my favorite prestige classes going to get useable builds? What did the Dirty Tactics Toolbox do for Arcane Tricksters?
The biggest thing was the Accomplished Sneak Attack feat which basically boosts your Sneak Attack by 1d6. So now you only need one level in Rogue, Unchained Rogue, Vivisectionist, Snakebite Striker, etc. to meet the 2d6 Sneak Attack prerequisite. So you can have 19 levels of casting progression. Also the Ranged Chicanery feat removes the skill check penalty for Ranged Legerdemain.
(Also how do you go about making the Myrmidarch a solid switch-hitter? Seems difficult)
To save typing time, I'll quote an old post of mine.
It is just not possible to be optimized for both melee and ranged attacks. What makes a switch hitter possible is class abilities and tactics that allow you become decent at one approach without significantly impacting the other. Treantmonk's switch hitting ranger works because his tactics and the ranger's ability to skip feat requirements means that he can do effective damage through archery for one round and still have the feats needed to be tough in melee for the rest of the battle. Currently my favorite switch hitter is a Myrmidarch Magus.
The Myrmidarch makes a nice switch hitter who delivers one massively damaging shot in the opening round before charging into melee. Like Treantmonk's switch-hitting ranger you don't need Precise Shot because you never fire into melee. There is no need to invest in feats like Rapid Shot or Manyshot because they won't work with Ranged Spellstrike anyway. Without those feats, you also don't need to pay the feat tax that is Point-Blank Shot. At first the only feat you need specifically for your ranged attacks is Reach Spell.
For the first few levels, you focus on Dex-based melee: Fencing Grace, Dervish Dance, etc. Then at 4th level you get Ranged Spellstrike. This lets you can add a ranged touch spell to your shot, and Reach Spell will let you turn touch attack spells like Shocking Grasp into ranged touch attack spells. Later you can use the usual Magical Lineage technique to memorize Intensified Reach Shocking Grasps using second level spell slots. On a critical hit you will eventually deliver 20d6 electrical damage with a single ranged attack. Or you can use various Rays to debuff or Disintegrate your opponents
I like using a heavy crossbow with Tanglebolts. The entanglement is great and the Seeking enhancement compensates for my lack of Improved Precise Shot. Also the crossbow has a threat range of 19-20. I also keep a throwing dagger or two handy, just in case the opportunity for a ranged attack opens up during melee.
A Myrmidarch has a ridiculous number of options for increasing to hit and damage for ranged attacks, and many of them can be used with melee attacks as well. The overlap is one of the reasons why this build can work.
Swift Actions
-Arcane Pool to add a variety of enhancements
-Arcane Strike (eventually +5 damage; Gloves of Arcane Striking lets you also deal that damage to those adjacent to your victims)
-The Arcane Accuracy Arcana (add your Int bonus to hit)Non-actions
-Weapon Training (eventually up to +3 to hit and damage; Gloves of Dueling can increase this by +2)
-Deadly Aim (eventually -4 to hit and +8 damage)
-Fighter Training lets you get feats like Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon SpecializationSpells
-Magic Weapon (+1 to hit and damage)
-Greater Magic Weapon (eventually +5 to hit and damage)
-Keen Edge can increase the threat range of your bolts, arrows, or daggers
-The Spell Blending Arcana can get you access to other archery-related spells like Gravity BowAlso the Myrmidarch's Armor Training lets you wear better armor without sacrificing speed or losing as much Dex bonus to AC.
Now that the new Ultimate Combat errata fixed the higher level version of Ranged Spellstrike a bow (with Bracers of Falcon's Aim) would be better than a heavy crossbow once you hit 11th level. Or you can use a light crossbow with the Rapid Reload feat.
I should mention that as you level up, your opponents will start to get items and abilities that will block a single ranged attack. At that point teamwork becomes very important. If the other players also make ranged attacks in the first round, they can shoot first and use up those mechanisms allowing your single heavy damage attack to go through.
Another fun option is to take VMC Fighter. From another old post.
I'd like to point out another beneficiary of the fighter VMC: the Myrmidarch Magus. Myrmidarchs already get three steps of Weapon Training and two steps of Armor Training. We have a FAQ that tells us these stack with those gained from fighter levels.
So with the VMC, a Myrmidarch will ultimately have Weapon Training with five weapon groups, with bonuses to hit and damage of up to +5. Gloves of Dueling will bring that up to +7!
Four steps of Armor Training eventually gives you a -4 to any ACP and a +4 to the maximum DEX bonus allowed. It also gets them the ability to move at normal speed in heavy armor well before they even get heavy armor proficiency.
Maybe I should write up a little guide with some sample builds. There seems to be more interest in the Myrmidarch since the latest errata. Then again, the Eldritch Archer might overshadow the Myrmidarch.
Dirty Tactics Toolbox brought new feats to help you qualify faster for Arcane Trickster and boost your SA.
I myself am really looking forward to this Eldritch Archer archetype as the arcane archer concept has pretty much been the first thing I wanted to try when I began playing tabletop RPGs.
I went from 1st and 2nd edition straight to Pathfinder, and I had much the same reaction as you. The Arcane Archer seemed like a magical version of Green Arrow or Hawkeye. Then I discovered that it just didn't work mechanically since you had to choose between BAB and spell progression when you needed both. When SLA's met prestige class prerequisites you could make a functional Arcane Archer using early entry to Eldritch Knight, but that isn't an option anymore. I'm really hoping that Eldritch Archer will achieve the right balance.
Here's the thread I made with practically the same question and what people responded
Maybe I should write up a little guide with some sample builds. There seems to be more interest in the Myrmidarch since the latest errata. Then again, the Eldritch Archer might overshadow the Myrmidarch.
A mini-guide would be really cool. I haven't seen the Eldritch Archer yet, but from reading the link that you posted above, I suspect that unless something weird happens, the Myrmidarch will be the better melee-focused switch-hitter, IF BUILT CORRECTLY. Sounds like it is still really easy to mess up a Myrmidarch build, and the existing Myrmidarch guide on the Zenith Games Guide to the Guides tried too hard to make the Myrmidarch an Arcane Archer replacement (and besides, VMC wasn't available when that was written) . . . Which is what the Eldritch Archer is going to be for.
Anyway, thanks for the links. I saw your old post about Myrmidarch Magus VMC Fighter before, but not your other 2 posts.
Unfortunately, Eldritch Archer didn't make the cut and isn't allowed in PFS.
oh god why
Because it is ungodly strong.
Alright, this might be an overstatement but the archetype is extremely good and you can do nasty things with it.
I've built and am currently playing an Eldritch Archer, using Snowball with a Sorcerer dip for max DPR.
Not only do I equal a regular melee Magus in this area but Snowball also has a chance to stagger enemies hit by the spell. And I shoot from the safety of range. And I also get to use Ray of Enfeeblement, Mudball and the like when I get bored.
I'll admit that I miss Accurate Strike but that's about it.
I don't think the ban was warranted though.
Archery is just really strong in Pathfinder (which is great for me since I love bows) and coupling that with arcane spells makes it even better.
But I can certainly think of more broken things I've witnessed in play and that don't require careful management of your resources like the Magus does...
Because it is ungodly strong.
Alright, this might be an overstatement but the archetype is extremely good and you can do nasty things with it.
I've built and am currently playing an Eldritch Archer, using Snowball with a Sorcerer dip for max DPR.
Not only do I equal a regular melee Magus in this area but Snowball also has a chance to stagger enemies hit by the spell. And I shoot from the safety of range. And I also get to use Ray of Enfeeblement, Mudball and the like when I get bored.
I'll admit that I miss Accurate Strike but that's about it.
I don't think the ban was warranted though.
Archery is just really strong in Pathfinder (which is great for me since I love bows) and coupling that with arcane spells makes it even better.
But I can certainly think of more broken things I've witnessed in play and that don't require careful management of your resources like the Magus does...
Magical Lineage with Ray of Frost and Rime Spell means you're tossing Entangles out in pretty much any turn you can shoot. At high levels, Dazing Battering Blast could get pretty insane.
I guess it would be possible, just not at will. In that case it would be much more useful on Snowball.
I guess it would be possible, just not at will. In that case it would be much more useful on Snowball.
Yes it would.
I purposely went down the max DPR route because my boyfriend is a huge fan of the regular melee Magus and didn't really like the archetype, thinking it might be OP. We agreed that I should test it and the end result was: better survivability, better flexibility, similar damage, less burst potential (due to reduced crit range).But you could also go with debuff/control options rather than pure damage (in that case, Hexcrafter is a good archetype to combine with Eldritch Archer) and then you have the potential for complete target lockdown.
Once again, I do not believe this is OP in any way. A smiting Paladin or cleverly-built Alchemist is just as deadly and those are not banned, to my knowledge. :/
Not to mention that I've built better Fighter, Ranger or Slayer archers that could consistently pull out as much damage without having to keep track of their spells or points in arcane pool.
Sure, they don't get the same utility outside of combat but IMHO, the Eldritch Archer is balanced in that regard.
Hm, that's a good point; it's basically adding a damage spell on top of the already high archery damage. And it's pretty easy to add to other archer classes by just dipping a bit.
Hit accuracy is quite a bit lower for the eldritch archer than it is for a true fighter based archer. That 3/4 bab and lower feat count can offset the added damage, depending on the level. I really don't think it warrants a pfs ban - but I don't pfs anyway.
Hm, that's a good point; it's basically adding a damage spell on top of the already high archery damage. And it's pretty easy to add to other archer classes by just dipping a bit.Hit accuracy is quite a bit lower for the eldritch archer than it is for a true fighter based archer. That 3/4 bab and lower feat count can offset the added damage, depending on the level. I really don't think it warrants a pfs ban - but I don't pfs anyway.
Pistol (Rapid Reload, Alchemical Cartridges). Reach out and touch people :)
It's not archery, but it's still useable with Eldritch Archer from what I can tell.
Gunslinger 5/ Anything X wrecks both and is allowed
Which is why Eldritch Archer should be made legal in PFS. :)
May I ask how is your dip? Only lvl 1 for archetype? also, which one? Boreal?
I've built and am currently playing an Eldritch Archer, using Snowball with a Sorcerer dip for max DPR.
usually the Sorcerer dip for damaging spells is Crossblooded Orc+Draconic
Indeed, I waited until level 3 for the dip because I wanted to shoot a bow from the start which I would not have been able to do with a 1st level Sorcerer.
I took a Crossblooded dip of Orc + Draconic (Silver Dragon (cold)). This gets you an extra +2 damage per die rolled so it really helps your DPR.
One of the players in my game only builds 2-handed characters in hope to achieve biggest damage at all times and was thoroughly surprised of my current DPR. :D
Another nice thing about the Sorcerer dip is I got UMD back on my class skills list for free. ;)
You might be very short on feat slots here.
Archery eats up lots of those and metamagic as well so I would not know where to fit Accomplished Sneak Attacker, especially without some of the Magus bonus feats.
I was calculating here and these are the feats I came up with on this Trickster Build:
** spoiler omitted **
First big problem I see here is not getting Precise Shot until level 5. This feat is so mandatory to have for any archer that I would not even wait for level 3 to get it (by playing Human, you can take it at 1st level, alongside PBS).
I'd swap out Rime Spell and Intensified Spell because you will reach the caster level cap for Snowball at level 7.
I'd also swap Deadly Aim and Accomplished Sneak Attacker together because you don't need the latter until you really start levelling Arcane Trickster.
Clustered Shots is also a bit too late for my tastes as monsters with significant DR will start showing up well before level 15.
Finally, you will run into Spell Resistance issues. Without Piercing Spell or Spell Penetration/Greater, you'll find it hard to hit enemies with your Snowballs past a certain point.
Duh, for some reason I had in mind that it had SR:yes!
Since I haven't played my Eldritch Archer past level 7 yet and SR is not very common at low levels, I never took notice. I guess that makes it a lesser issue but it would mean that you go straight damage then because control spells will usually have SR. :)
Are you looking for only arcane archers? Inquisitors make pretty good archers that can use all their class abilities in melee if need be + can cast divine spells fairly effectively. Bane is some serious damage coupled with multishot/rapid shot.
Dnoisette, in case I don't follow the Arcane Trickster suggestion above and stick to sorcerer 1/eldritch archer 19 - what metamagic feats do you suggest?
say: rime, intensified, piercing spell, spell pen/greater... ? Anything else? Do you always take piercing, spell pen+greater together?
I usually choose between Piercing Spell or Spell Penetration + Greater.
Taking all 3 is a bit overkill for most games, unless your DM got frustrated with your character and is trying to shut you down. ;)For metamagic feats, assuming you just want to do damage, I would recommend Intensified Spell (of course), Empower Spell and Quicken Spell.
Quick explanation: Quicken Spell is for use with Spell Perfection, otherwise it's too expensive. I also recommend Empower Spell over Maximize Spell because the damage output is usually the same anyway and the increased spell level is one less with Empower Spell.
Maximize is good to have for Magus Arcana or past level 15, once you have Spell Perfection.
If you want to also add debuff on top of your damage, Rime Spell is cool but I would not recommend any other: they cost too much for a class that only has 6th-level spellcasting.