Every time I see someone reference "workshopped," my inner intellectual property switch gets flipped. Depending on the level of input, a submitter may not necessarily be the sole author, which defeats the purpose of the contest, and potentially opens liability between the submitter and work shoppers.
Workshopping feedback (as I provide it) is basically a combination of the snark thread and the praise thread focused on the workshopped item.
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If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Or you could, you know, search for it yourself on the PRD. It's not hard, and providing links is not required by the rules.Stop oppressing my snark ; -))
That said, it is good commercial practice to make life easier for your customers. And this is exactly what voters are.
This is the snark thread. I'll snark on your snark if I snarking well want to. That's what you get for posting unacceptable snark before I've had my coffee. Snark.
Both of you, there's a reason why neither of those spells aren't made constant effect despite being obvious choices. Vote goes to the less horrendously spell to have on yourself permanently.
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This is the snark thread. I'll snark on your snark if I snarking well want to. That's what you get for posting unacceptable snark before I've had my coffee. Snark.If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Or you could, you know, search for it yourself on the PRD. It's not hard, and providing links is not required by the rules.Stop oppressing my snark ; -))
That said, it is good commercial practice to make life easier for your customers. And this is exactly what voters are.
*thinks about creating a smurf like race called 'The Snarks'. Evil little buggers.*
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Snarking on other people's snark is called meta snarking
Snarking on other people's snark is called meta snarking
Snarkception.
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Do you want snarks? Because this is how you get snarks.
I've mentioned before, I prefer no links to links. Books don't get to have links.If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Or you could, you know, search for it yourself on the PRD. It's not hard, and providing links is not required by the rules.Stop oppressing my snark ; -))
That said, it is good commercial practice to make life easier for your customers. And this is exactly what voters are.
I'm pro-links! We are not printing these in books (at least not yet). It is not required, but I say, use the technology you are working in. It sure makes it easier to look up what makes the item tick if it has links. Some items need them more than others, but I wish they were all hyperlinked. SNARK!
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Snarking on other people's snark is called meta snarking
This made me think of mecha-sharking, while was an enjoyable thought.
This led me to think about Mecha-Shark, which was also enjoyable, and I like to imagine it would be great on the snark threads.
This led me to think about Mecha-Shark vs. Crocosaurus, so I went to Netflix and put that on. I regret that very much.
This led me to imagine the movie MECHA-SNARK vs. PRAISEOSAURUS, which I think should totally be the name of the RPGSS movie.
Snarking on other people's snark is called meta snarking
Metasnarking is the worst. Especially if it's self aware.
Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
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my snark about the snark thread:
1) this is not twitter. no need to live-tweet every single item you look at.
2) some of you people must be unemployed given the sheer volume of pots going on throughout each and every day. i am jealous.
that will be all. return to your regular snark.
Says the Marathon Voter ;-)
Actually, snarking helps keep me sane and voting. Since I very much value my santity, no snarking would mean next to no voting ;-)
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I'm pro-links! We are not printing these in books (at least not yet). It is not required, but I say, use the technology you are working in. It sure makes it easier to look up what makes the item tick if it has links. Some items need them more than others, but I wish they were all hyperlinked. SNARK!I've mentioned before, I prefer no links to links. Books don't get to have links.If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Or you could, you know, search for it yourself on the PRD. It's not hard, and providing links is not required by the rules.Stop oppressing my snark ; -))
That said, it is good commercial practice to make life easier for your customers. And this is exactly what voters are.
There are more important considerations too...
a) Books have the spells and feats in the same page, your design on line does not - so - linking them is turning your design into an online book in that if you need to, you can use the "index" (the link) to go look the spell/feat/whatever up.
b) if the link actually links to a PRD entry, then voters can just hover the link, see the link to PRD and be assured you have used PRD only materials in your design - making their voting life easier :)
c) Having or not having links shouldn't change your vote, it's the design that should be doing that. If you do, aren't you guilty of being the template fiends that everyone refers to?
I don't care either way, I may grumble when you use a spell or feat I don't know and I do have to search the PRD to find it, but I don't let that affect my voting decision.
So all you link users - good for you, my voting is made faster and easier because of the link
All you non link users - good on you too, I may have to take an extra minute or two sometimes but it isn't hurting you.
I'm voting on the design, not the link or absence thereof :)
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my snark about the snark thread:
1) this is not twitter. no need to live-tweet every single item you look at.
2) some of you people must be unemployed given the sheer volume of pots going on throughout each and every day. i am jealous.
that will be all. return to your regular snark.
Got 2 jobs but with enterprise tech support they do not care what you do as long as the job gets done and they don't have to learn Linux.
I tend to like when people use feats and spells I am not familiar with, as it means that even if the item is just a SIAC, at least it will do something new to me.
my snark about the snark thread:
1) this is not twitter. no need to live-tweet every single item you look at.
2) some of you people must be unemployed given the sheer volume of pots going on throughout each and every day. i am jealous.
that will be all. return to your regular snark.
Have never partaken myself, but I can imagine that this would make many of the items seem a lot more interesting while voting.
[stereotypical stoner voice]"Whoa! First you bleed on the runes, and then you eat the ogre mage toe jam to become all powerful? Far out!"[/stereotypical stoner voice]
I tend to like when people use feats and spells I am not familiar with, as it means that even if the item is just a SIAC, at least it will do something new to me.
I also like when there is more than one spell / feat / combination of both as they often show an interesting application of the two... :D
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Rusty Ironpants
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I've mentioned before, I prefer no links to links. Books don't get to have links.If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Or you could, you know, search for it yourself on the PRD. It's not hard, and providing links is not required by the rules.Stop oppressing my snark ; -))
That said, it is good commercial practice to make life easier for your customers. And this is exactly what voters are.
But ebooks do get to have links. Which one does this website have more in common with?
P.S. To much meta-snarking could lead to a critical snark-mass and induce the dreaded Snarknado!
An item I threw in out of last year's reject pile has not yet been culled and has been seen today.
I'm seeing people I really like, who have never advanced and whose items I've seen and know are better, say they think they've been culled based on their items' last-seen date.
If I advance, I can't participate.
I'm not real happy with the voters or this contest right now.
[sarcasm]IF yOu dOn't wAnt tO bE sUccEssfUl, sTop bEing sO aWesome?[/sarcasm]
In all a honesty, it would be a shame if you didn't get to participate in the second round and earned it.
Sarcasm font (Capitalizing/italicizing the second letter of a word of a syllable) brought to you by my girlfriend. Who may have brought it to me from someone else.
An item I threw in out of last year's reject pile has not yet been culled and has been seen today.
I'm seeing people I really like, who have never advanced and whose items I've seen and know are better, say they think they've been culled based on their items' last-seen date.
If I advance, I can't participate.
I'm not real happy with the voters or this contest right now.
I've also seen items I really liked be culled. I'm not happy about it, but as of right now, we're still sitting at just over 300 seen. That 300+ still has to be pared down to only 32 and 2 (4?) alternates... so a lot more items we like are gonna be excised. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm not gonna think about table flipping until after Round 1's results are officially posted.
I know that you already know this, and you're just blowing off a bit of pressure. So why am I replying? I dunno, just felt like I should.
As for your "rejected" item making it, I think we can often be blind to the quality of our own work. Instead of your reject item somehow bamboozling it's way past hundreds of voters, I hope you would consider that it is more likely the voters are seeing a spark of brilliance in the item and real talent in the creator (you). :)
An item I threw in out of last year's reject pile has not yet been culled and has been seen today.
I'm seeing people I really like, who have never advanced and whose items I've seen and know are better, say they think they've been culled based on their items' last-seen date.
If I advance, I can't participate.
I'm not real happy with the voters or this contest right now.
I've also seen items I really liked be culled. I'm not happy about it, but as of right now, we're still sitting at just over 300 seen. That 300+ still has to be pared down to only 32 and 2 (4?) alternates... so a lot more items we like are gonna be excised. That's just the nature of the beast. I'm not gonna think about table flipping until after Round 1's results are officially posted.
I know that you already know this, and you're just blowing off a bit of pressure. So why am I replying? I dunno, just felt like I should.
As for your "rejected" item making it, I think we can often be blind to the quality of our own work. Instead of your reject item somehow bamboozling it's way past hundreds of voters, I hope you would consider that it is more likely the voters are seeing a spark of brilliance in the item and real talent in the creator (you). :)
I was going to make a "That's not fair to the voters or the contest" post but I think Slaad is right, and that's just letting off steam. So I scrapped my post.
Instead here's a link to Wikipedia that may relate to how you feel about your "reject pile" entry. If it does make Top 32, I hope you stick with it.
Despite conspiracy theories about coordinated cabals of voters that are out to rig the contest, pretty much I've seen year after year generally the best tends to win out when the voters have their way.
Does this sometimes mean someone I saw with mroe potential gets cut? Absolutely (my reaction to that is to try and recruit them.)
Taste is subjective but it's important to remember that at the end of the day FREELANCING is a public vote. We vote with our money on what we are willing to buy.
You know the rest of my thoughts on the matter.
~2 copper
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If the spell you mention in your description is not really well-known and you do not describe its effects, you'd better provide me with a link :-/Is it in the PRD? If so, why is a link needed? If not, then the item violated the rules, vote it down.
Is it just me, or has anyone else started writing new spells, feats, magic armor or weapon special abilities, etc. based on their SupahStah! item this year?
Yes, I know this would retroactively make my item into a gussied up ______-in-a-Can, and yes, I think that's funny.
I am venting, yeah. I thought that's what this thread was for.
I've gotten a shot at a PFS scenario and I've got freelance work; I've effectively gotten the perks of making the Top 4 without reaching it. I'm not looking for validation, and I'm out of the imposter syndrome frying pan and into the fire of one-star reviews.
If Paizo published it anyway, then I don't think it's fair that you try to shoulder all the blame for bad reviews all by yourself. (I'm not going to touch on whether the reviews are accurate or not.) And hey, I really really liked your Fantastic Technology--and, BTW, so did Endzeitgeist; my lack of writing a good review for it is not any indication of your writing talents.
And I really doubt the item I entered will advance, but if it does I'd consider it an indictment of the judge-less Top 32 far more than a win for myself. Watching a substandard item advance past objectively better items isn't doing much to assuage my concerns that voters are not voting on the designer's capabilities, and better designers who haven't gotten the same opportunities I have are missing their shot because their items didn't play well enough to the crowd.
Clearly then, your only recourse then is to PM me with your item's name, so I can smite it with great vengeance and furious anger routinely vote it down. All I ask in return is that you vote my entirely-deserving item up. ;)
Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
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I am venting, yeah. I thought that's what this thread was for.
I've gotten a shot at a PFS scenario and I've got freelance work; I've effectively gotten the perks of making the Top 4 without reaching it. I'm not looking for validation, and I'm out of the imposter syndrome frying pan and into the fire of one-star reviews.
And I really doubt the item I entered will advance, but if it does I'd consider it an indictment of the judge-less Top 32 far more than a win for myself. Watching a substandard item advance past objectively better items isn't doing much to assuage my concerns that voters are not voting on the designer's capabilities, and better designers who haven't gotten the same opportunities I have are missing their shot because their items didn't play well enough to the crowd.
Haven't read or played that one yet, but all the reactions I've heard locally have been positive.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
aka Arkos
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I am venting, yeah. I thought that's what this thread was for.
I've gotten a shot at a PFS scenario and I've got freelance work; I've effectively gotten the perks of making the Top 4 without reaching it. I'm not looking for validation, and I'm out of the imposter syndrome frying pan and into the fire of one-star reviews.
And I really doubt the item I entered will advance, but if it does I'd consider it an indictment of the judge-less Top 32 far more than a win for myself. Watching a substandard item advance past objectively better items isn't doing much to assuage my concerns that voters are not voting on the designer's capabilities, and better designers who haven't gotten the same opportunities I have are missing their shot because their items didn't play well enough to the crowd.
First, I really want you to write another scenario! I cared about it enough to review it, and I hate that it's been taken over by knee-jerk one-star reviews. I happily ran it and I would happily so again. If you ever come down to the local PFS at Guardian Games, I'll bring the 3d terrain I built for the bluff because I am a crazy person.
A comment was made on the Items Seen post discussing the desire to scour the cull data to look for key features that the crowd plays to. Price ranges. Item types. Keywords. And if we start playing to the crowd by designing items like that, then the overall nature of this competition is going to change. Instead of a design challenge, we have to add some marketing to our submissions. The knowledge that there are no golden tickets is a little scary. Some of the posts in this thread with blanket dislikes and downvotes worry me. My feelings are highly represented in Garrett's thoughts here.
Of course, I still want to sway the crowd because I DO have imposter's syndrome. So I kind of want that data. I'm studying the snark thread. I'm conflicted.
Some of the items that are left have no business being around but let's remember this is a competition to find the top 32 not the top 300.
Some of the items have built up votes from early on in the competition, perhaps by luck and decent formatting. If paizo wanted to find the top 300 then they would need to clear out the voting data with each cull and have longer periods between culls. But they don't need to do that because we're just trying to skim the top.
Let's wait to see the finalists before becoming disheartened.
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I actually still have some faith in the system. There are at least 32 very good items that I have seen since last night, any one of which could have been in during past contests. The process already has me thinking more carefully as I go as the items being paired are far more evenly matched. The system does seem to be working well. If my item was culled, then perhaps there is a flaw I overlooked. We'll see.
My one concern is that many of the remaining items are...questionable. There aren't as many egregious items left, but the ones that are seem to have been developed out of design spaces that are far from stellar. They are Book of Magic Items (BMIs) to be sure, but not very Superstar. So when we see the results on Monday it will be most interesting how they compare to past years.
RE: Adding marketing to item design
In a way, this is always what it has been, just to 3 judges as opposed to hundreds (maybe thousands?) of voters. But one of the things the judges are judging when trying to discern the best designer: Can the designer produce marketable writing?
But I do get your feelings and I don't want to diminish what you are saying in any way...it is a completely valid concern and we just might see a judges panel return in future seasons. We won't know until after this season is over but I like to think that the rankings the voting will produce will be pretty good.
Cull confirmed for 1:40 PST yesterday in the cull thread. Huzzah for stealth culls!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Rusty Ironpants
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I am wondering why so many designers make up charge systems that are powered by circumstance in order to use the abilities of their items. Players will always find, or at least keep looking for, a way to manipluate the circumstances so that the item effectively becomes an unlimited use item.
Why not just make the item continuous, use activated or have a specific number of charges per day? Then you can price it appropriately.
If an item is culled early, mid-way through, or just before the end, does it make a practical difference? We don't know why voters didn't like it, only that it's gone. We won't get an idea why they're gone until the Critique thread goes up, and that assumes the creator participates in it... and even then, it'll just be a small sample of voters offering their reasons.
I'm not saying you're wrong, Garrett. I'm just saying that it still feels too early for me to react. Maybe after another cull or two, I'll feel the same way, especially if my item gets culled while others that I consider broken/uber or just boring survive. Or if a suspiciously high number of workshopped items make Top 32 (36) while the independently anonymous items don't. (As my item wasn't workshopped, I'm very curious on this myself.) Or if items were downvoted for hyperlinking more often than not.
Personally, while I hate the persistent nauseous lump in my gut, I'd rater have the unofficial Seen spreadsheet than not. If I haven't had that tiny sliver of hope that my item had survived this far, my anxiety would be growing much higher, until it peaked and I just give up practicing for Round 2. At least having the option of viewing the Seen sheet gives entrants the option of peeking or not, and then letting them selves off the hook if their item has been likely culled.
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2) some of you people must be unemployed given the sheer volume of pots going on throughout each and every day. i am jealous.
Says the Marathon Voter :O!
Dedicated!
I'm sure the snark thread does exert some influence, but perhaps not as much as one might fear. I've never had a problem with blood items for example, and I haven't let the snark thread get to me on that.
Regarding workshopped items, I find that I set higher expectations for them than others (well, the ones I've workshopped obviously). Most of the time I workshopped without sending my item to the other designer. I think only 3 people have seen it (4 if Template Fu counts as a person).
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@Feros... Feel free to Pm me your entry as submitted and I will be happy to give it a once over privately for you... I have done this already and the contestants benefitting said my feedback was a help.
Offers there if you want it pal.
I am wondering why so many designers make up charge systems that are powered by circumstance in order to use the abilities of their items. Players will always find, or at least keep looking for, a way to manipluate the circumstances so that the item effectively becomes an unlimited use item.
Why not just make the item continuous, use activated or have a specific number of charges per day? Then you can price it appropriately.
I didn't make a charges with a unique regain item, but I can see why it is appealing. Continuous or use activated could be too powerful for certain effects and a hard limit on daily uses could be seen as too restrictive or even "meta;" you can see the dislike of daily mechanics as being a trend in new RPG products. Look at Dreamscarred's Path of War or even Dnd 5e with the short rest mechanics. Perhaps designers who are doing what you describe are trying to bring in a newer design philosophy to Pathfinder but in a more exciting way than abstract rests and are just having trouble balancing it and/or considering the abuses.
@Feros... Feel free to Pm me your entry as submitted and I will be happy to give it a once over privately for you... I have done this already and the contestants benefitting said my feedback was a help.
Offers there if you want it pal.
Offer is accepted. Thanks! :D
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Double the offer Feros :)
Double the offer Feros :)
Thanks as well! :)