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I in no way want to take the wind away from N.Jolly's awesome Kineticist guide, it's great work and deserves a spotlight. However, my great interest in it has been, not because I need help with the class, but because I've been working on my own guide. Unlike Jolly, I don't think the elements should all be in the same guide. I had already started my own guide before I saw that Jolly was doing one, but I'm going much much much slower... (don't even expect many changes over the weekend, I need to evaluate in tests different things before I open my mouth).
If anyone's interested in input'ing on my much more bland guide (I'll decorate it after I see how much space I have for images per page), you can find it here:
I'm only just now moving onto the Talents, and haven't even considered Feats or Magic items yet... I feel that, only in this way, can you truly convey how to intermix the elements, and just how different the different elements are played. After all, as Mark said, each element has its own playstyle, such as 'tactical' for aether. To lump them into a single guide does a disfavor (in my opinion) to potential optimization.
Also, my apologies for just how empty it is... I'm trying to be as thorough as possible and am really only doing this on limited spare time, throwing things in as I experience them in our weekly game-play.
For what it's worth, I agree that each Element will require it's own Guide. Trying to play a PyroKinetic with the same Playstyle you use for a GeoKinetic is going to end... poorly.
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Dex and con, with a side of human, makes me think that the atherkineticist is going to be the hardest, yet most skillful of the bunch. Considering they can move things where and when they want in a fight, the atherkineticist can cause chaos during an entire fight.
GMs hate the fact I ask almost all the time if there is anything of a certain weight that isn't living and animate within a few feet of my character.
As for traits, I would take a look in Pragmatic Activator since charisma tends to be the dump stat, and intelligence is a recommended non dump.
Play style wise though, this is how I can see them being:
Aero Kineticist: Tactical, ranged striker with good movement, and can be a great switch hitter and caster killer.
Aether Kineticist: Tactical, striking from the shadows and taking things without notice, with the skill set to steal or disarm traps from a distance.
Geo Kineticist: Warrior, able to tank hits and deal damage, the geo kineticist looks to be a martial beast with a kinetic blade.
Hydro Kineticist: Tactical, with options to control, rebuff, and heal it seems that these water masters can be quite debilitating to those they don't like....
Pyro Kineticist: Blaster, everyone loves explosions, right? How about sapping fire resistance from things that normally have a high tolerance for the heat?
The bold is what I'm setting up for. Now that invisibility is now possible, oh lawdy.....
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HOW DARE YOU STEAL MY THUNDER!
Nah, good on ya man, I'm giving an introduction to the class and general knowledge, looks like you've got some serious drive for the telekineticist. I'll do my best to make the generalist guide as good as possible, but I'll also keep an eye on what you've got going on here and see if there's things I'm missing particularly with this guide.
Personally I'd love to see a guide for each one, and once both of ours are finished, I'd love to cross link our guides to add to the experience.
While I'll address most of those in the guide, I'll pop in and say that the Telekinetic Maneuvers are worth it, and the main purpose behind Foe Throw is to put more distance between you and the closest foe. The 2ndary target is usually going to be a distant range-combatant accessed via Extended Range. And yes, it's worth it since by 11th level, combining the 2 infusions is free. Free at 8th if you sacrifice a move action.
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I've never been really good with guides, so having someone with the drive to make one is fantastic! I have also been toying around with an idea that's essentially a single level dip, but a bit confused as to how the Evangelist could work.... Would make for an interesting Kineticist in any tier of play if it works out the way I think it does.
Aligned Class (Ex): Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.
My 12th level TKer in PFS has a +32 to grapple, and can then pin as a move immediately afterwards, then turn on suffocation the next round to Darth Vader you, crushing your windpipe with the move action maintenance.
I'd say TK maneuvers is worth it.
Really wish you'd stayed with the standard color scheme. Makes it harder for readers to use your guide if their brain is used to purple=best when your purple=meh.
I'd personally agree here. Threw off my groove. Anyways, whenever you get to the talents, I think it'd be great to see some possibilities with the ability. Like, "With X ability, you could do Y, or Z, etc..." I know it's more work, but it'd also help in realizing the potential of some of the abilities IMO. Things like what technarken said basically only slightly further in explaining how it goes down.
Anyways, looking forward to all of the guides. Especially this one and the Geokineticist (which I think can make a solid range due to their being able to vary damage types to bypass DR). Goodluck and thanks for the effort!
The 2ndary target is usually going to be a distant range-combatant accessed via Extended Range. And yes, it's worth it since by 11th level, combining the 2 infusions is free. Free at 8th if you sacrifice a move action.I must sadly inform you that both of those are form infusions. Extended Range & Extreme range honestly seem like they would just be better as utility talents and any form talents would be effected by them unless they set their own range.
Crap... the sad thing is I know this... I've even written a list of things to quit stacking because I do it in game, threw away the cards I had this on, and still I keep thinking I can do this. :(
I guess instead of trying to remember Foe Throw can only throw to something else within 30', I'll have to remember to throw the foe at someone in combat in a manner that f he leaves combat, he invokes AoOs from my allies.. :P
As or the color scheme, I admit I don't really use Guides so am less affected by the change, however, if people prefer, I will use the normal color scheme despite it not fitting the color wheel. :P
Third Mind, I'll have "cards" at the end that are good for printing out, which will do exactly what you're saying... From 8th level onward, it will list all the "free" blasts you get by combining both a Form and Substance infusion. It'll also have for 5th t 8th level, all the 1-burn infusions you can use for free. :)
Lastly, there'll be blank cards for costly infusions, so you can list your own 1-burn (or more burn) attacks. Each card will also have a space for Empowered and Empowered+Maximized.so you just whip out a card, read what damage you did (or need to roll), etc... :)
I've had more time this weekend than anticipated, and have completed chapter 1 of the guide, character creation. Chapter 2 will be magic items, equipment, etc. Chapter 3 will go in depth on each Expanded Element, and either reiterate certain aspects, or explore wider options to give a good feel for how the elements mesh together.
If anyone has time to debate what I've done so far, and attempt to better the guide, I would appreciate it, no matter how critical the comments. Also, if anyone would like to suggest magic items, there are likely many magic items that I simply do not know about.
The most obvious to me are:
Mithral Chain Shirt, most likely with a Shadow progression.
Belt of Physical Might (Dex, Con) of course...
Arrowmaster's Bracers, so that one time a day you Nova, you can't miss.
And of course items that boost the important skills like Stealth, Disable and Sleight.
Admittedly, in chapter 3 we will re-visit magic items to expand it into what works best with specific elements.
I've added Expansion into Air and Earth to the guide (sorry this is going so slow, I'm working on it as often as I can). Again, if anyone sees anything wrong, or has any recommendations for those areas, I appreciate the comments. Will try to do Fire and Water today as well. There's a lot less to write there than I'd thought, since I don't want this to turn into an all-element general kineticist guide.
Thanks for the comment, and you're absolutely right. I originally was thinking that the 7th level Feat was to be used for the Kinetic Whip, since once you move to Earth you -really- want that whip, but having forgotten to state so in the document, I suggested the defense at 7th level instead, when originally that was suppose to be suggested at 8th.
Again, thanks for the catch. :)
Damn... missed that. Ok, will fix that. Thank you.
My 12th level TKer in PFS has a +32 to grapple, and can then pin as a move immediately afterwards, then turn on suffocation the next round to Darth Vader you, crushing your windpipe with the move action maintenance.
I'd say TK maneuvers is worth it.
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on that?
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Would you be so kind as to elaborate on that?My 12th level TKer in PFS has a +32 to grapple, and can then pin as a move immediately afterwards, then turn on suffocation the next round to Darth Vader you, crushing your windpipe with the move action maintenance.
I'd say TK maneuvers is worth it.
Wow. I missed that +32 earlier... how is that? +9 from level, +8 from 26 Con, +2 from them being flat-footed (we're stealthy), Are we including +4 from overflow (is that even legal)?... I get 23 at best, maybe 24 if you include Weapon Focus (which I'm sure isn't legal, since this isn't the blast)?
I'm also curious about the Pin as the entry for Grappling Infusion from the SRD reads "it can't perform other functions of grapple maneuvers such as pinning or moving the opponent"
Grappling is from the Telekinesis spell (Telekinetic Maneuvers). Not an infusion.
Grappling is from the Telekinesis spell (Telekinetic Maneuvers). Not an infusion.
Well that clears that right up then! xD
now about that +32...
Weight doesn't do as much damage as you'd think.
The 2-ton statue, might be 'large' in size, definitely not huge, gargantuan, or colossal. And a large statue does 4d6 damage. By the time you can take TK Haul (4th level), you're doing that damage with a blast (2d6+2+1+4).
Same with swords... a couple might hit you (small objects doing 2d6 each), or using the weapon damage of 1d6... all in all, the game is not setup to factor in realistic (in comparison to combat damage) falling object damage/abuse. :/
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Grappling is from the Telekinesis spell (Telekinetic Maneuvers). Not an infusion.Well that clears that right up then! xD
now about that +32...
12 - Caster Level
9 - CON (20 + 2 Belt + 2 Stat + 4 Size)4 - Improved/Greater Grapple
4 - Adhesive Brawling Armor Enchant
2 - Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver
1 - Trait that improves CMB
So, here's a quick build I threw together, 6th level and 25 point buy. Possibly a back up character for the one I'm playing in a current campaign.
Nathan Dalton – CN – 6th lv. Aether Kineticist aka Telekineticist
Attributes –
STR: 8
DEX: 16
CON: 18 (+2 Human Racial Bonus)
INT: 14
WIS: 12
CHA: 10
Traits –
Nimbe Fingers, Keen Mind
Witty Repartee
Skills –
Perception: 6 ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 1 WIS = +10
Sense Motive: 6 ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 1 WIS = +10
Disable Device: 6 ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 3 + 1 Trait = +13
Stealth: 6 ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 3 = +12
Sleight of Hand: 6 ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 3 = +12
Bluff: 3 Ranks + 3 Class Bonus + 1 Trait = +7
Intimidate: 3ranks + 3 Class Bonus = +6
Knowledge (History): 3 ranks + 2 INT = +5
Knowledge (Local): 3 ranks + 2 INT = +5
Feats –
1st
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Finesse
3rd
Precise Shot
5th
Weapon Focus (Elemental Blast)
Talents –
1st
Telekinetic Blast (free)
Force Ward (free)
Basic Telekinesis (free)
Extended Range (infusion)
2nd
Telekinetic Finesse
3rd
Kinetic Blade
4th
Telekinetic Haul
5th
Foe Throw
6th
Telekinetic Invisibility
Kinetic Healer (FCB)
Equipment –
????
Stats –
HP: 53
AC: 18 (10 base + 3 DEX + 5 Mithral Chain Shirt)
Initiative: +3
FORT: +6
WILL: +6
REFL: +8
CMD: 16 (10 + 4 – 1 + 3)
CMB: +3
To-Hit: +8 (+10 if you have at least 3 burn [+2 DEX +2 CON])
Damage: 3d6 + 7 (3d6+ 9 if you have at least 3 burn)
Anything I have wrong? Anything I could do to make it better? Honestly though, since there's so few early talents (seemingly especially for Aether) it will probably look much the same as many other builds. I'm thinking of going into Earth later, and eventually picking up Force Hook, pulling myself to enemies then using kinetic blade to bash away. Not sure about Telekineticist just yet, might still go Air or Earth in the end.
It is a good build, with traits I'll have to add to my guide, however, the more I research, and I intend to research completely, the more it seems like Fire is the way to go if you want a strong kinetic melee. Earth is if you want the defense... other than their defense, there's really not a lot of reasons to do Earth. You might just prefer an Adamantite Chain Shirt to the Earth element...
Anyhows, I'm still researching, and will surely be done before you're level 7. :P
Anything I have wrong? Anything I could do to make it better? Honestly though, since there's so few early talents (seemingly especially for Aether) it will probably look much the same as many other builds. I'm thinking of going into Earth later, and eventually picking up Force Hook, pulling myself to enemies then using kinetic blade to bash away. Not sure about Telekineticist just yet, might still go Air or Earth in the end.
Foe Throw is a 3rd level Wild Talent, so that means you'd need to be 6th level or above to select it. Unfortunately, since it's an infusion, that means the earliest you can take it is level 7, but only if you expand Aether and forgo a secondary element. Otherwise, you're forced to wait until level 9
Foe Throw is a 3rd level Wild Talent, so that means you'd need to be 6th level or above to select it. Unfortunately, since it's an infusion, that means the earliest you can take it is level 7, but only if you expand Aether and forgo a secondary element. Otherwise, you're forced to wait until level 9
Anything I have wrong? Anything I could do to make it better? Honestly though, since there's so few early talents (seemingly especially for Aether) it will probably look much the same as many other builds. I'm thinking of going into Earth later, and eventually picking up Force Hook, pulling myself to enemies then using kinetic blade to bash away. Not sure about Telekineticist just yet, might still go Air or Earth in the end.
Dang it. Guess I'll shift Kinetic Healer into its place and just use the FCB for HP.
A 2-ton rock is smaller than a small car. About the size of a Smart car. While I don't know how the weight of a stone golem was calculated, I do know how big a 2 ton rock is (I work with heavy machinery that requires 2-ton weights for testing), and a horse is about the same 'size' (Ie: 2m x 1m x 1m).
Lemme see if I can google something.
Here's a video of a 2-ton rock rolling down a hill (lame video, but gives an idea about size)
Now, how big of a statue you can make from 2 tons of rock, I don't know... I only know how big a 2 ton slab of stone is. :P
Granite has an SG of 2.7, that means a 1m x 1m x 1m would weigh 2,700 kg. Let's avoid estimating. :P
165 x 27 (approximately 27 square feet in a cubic meter, 3*3*3) is over 4000 lbs. that is still smaller than a 5 foot square, thats a 3 foot square making it medium. I was being generous by calling it large, because it is easy to assume one dimension is greater than the 5 foot of a square.
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You are still looking at 12+9 for the maneuver bonus. However, if you took Gifted Adept(Telekinesis) you would get a +1 to caster level from the trait.
The once per round limitation of the telekinesis spell is really hard to work around. Too bad, Bushwhack would have worked nicely with TK invisibility.
Hello! Just a couple of points:
Extreme Range - While you are unlikely to need this so much for the kinetic blast, it is important for the basic telekinesis, telekinetic haul.Extreme range is a form infusion; it can only be applied to blasts, not Utility Talents like basic telekinesis.
No but basic telekinesis is modified by it.
But yes, greater self TK is essentially flying without being flying.
dot
Geo Kineticist: Warrior, able to tank hits and deal damage, the geo kineticist looks to be a martial beast with a kinetic blade.
I wouldn't say they HAVE to go with the blade. Their physical blasts are good enough for regular ranged options (particularly since it is the only one that can get through most forms of non-alignment DR). And with options for entangling or grappling, it can apply decent enough debuffs on an AoE.
But yes, it is the tank of the bunch. Considering the fact that most of your boost mechanics come from having at least a little bit of burn (and that boost is also meant to partially make up for the lack of enhancements), it is one of the best, since it is easy to write off the burn that you put into DR. But being sturdy doesn't mean you can't be in the back line- it just means that you aren't as worried when brought to the front line.
Combined with Water, and you have a decent armor class(use a light shield so your hand is free) to back up that DR.
Love the guide. I think individual guides for each play style are useful.
Be careful not to get stuck into a rating rut. This is a guide and a good use of a guide is explaining how some things work (esp the basic blast, which for aether is more complicated than elementals).
You mentioned in part of the guide that you don't need to rate blast or force ward, but you had already rated force ward (underrated IMO).
You still have some things claiming to stack with range infusion that don't.
There are parts in the guide you mention something is or isn't a specific color, but you have changed the color without changing the words (a read through will fix this).
While I agree that earth is possibly the best (water is close as well) to pair with aether if you want to melee, it's not manditory. Aether on it's own does fairly well in melee with its health shield (and the fact that it has armor prof and high dex).
While I agree that earth is possibly the best (water is close as well) to pair with aether if you want to melee, it's not manditory. Aether on it's own does fairly well in melee with its health shield (and the fact that it has armor prof and high dex).
I think combining DR with health shield has a lot of uses.
I mean...DR doesn't protect against energy, but health shield does. So that is a rather important distinction. So combined, they provide a nice set of defenses against all sorts of melee and ranged attacks.
Also, there is the advantage that dungeons...are pratically not a 'thing' to you. With earthglide, climb speed, and tremor sense added to the aether's usual list of scout-y/skill monkey tricks, you have plenty of options.
Earthglide also provides a strange benefit- from dev commentary, it seems that it is possible to 5' step into the ground. Which could be used to do a safe gather power. Maybe get someone to throw on a silence, go invisible, and glide over to stealthily charge underground where I doubt anyone could see you. It might be a nice way to get a free high burn blast at the start of a fight.
I started a guide for pyrokineticist. I think it's turning out well. This is a surprisingly versatile class once you start digging into it.