mikkelibob's page

To echo what Torbyne is saying, players thinking of starting out from 1st level need to consider blast accuracy. Compared to a reasonably built archer (similar role in combat, I'm guessing) a Kineticist is going to be down 1-2 to hit due to 3/4 BAB. They are also going to be lacking the low hanging +1 enhancement bonus from a masterwork weapon most archers will pick up by 2nd level. An archer might also have the bounty of feats to pick up weapon focus, something that might be delayed or passed by a kientcist. Archers also probably have a +4 DEX mod, while many Kineticists will be a point or so behind. Add that up and low level kineticists are often 3-4 behind on attack roles. If a kineticst fails to pick up Precise Shot early, then they are really behind the 8-ball.

Upside: A kineticist can take an energy blast (ranged touch), but with reduced damage. Both archers and kineticts benefit from some of those nice ranged magic items, like Bracers of Falcon's Aim (or lesser archery), which are available pretty early (5th or 6th level - what else are you spending money on?).

I'm guessing by mid levels, the focus on a single shot and diminishing marginal enemy AC evens things out. Archers need the to hit bonuses to hit with iterative attacks, not as issue for a kineticist. But at early levels, in actual play, missing often is simply frustrating.

One thought: In a home game a kineticist should be allowed to use a feat to pick up an additional blast with Extra Wild Talent. Maybe let them retrain out of it at 7th. Having the physical and energy blast would be more flavorful than just some accuracy boosting feat.

My only issue (as mainly a player) with mounts is much the same as my issue with summoner-focused characters. Every additional unit on the board takes time to plan and take actions. Pathfinder combat can get tedious as it is, and slogging though the movement of mounts, animal companions, familiars, and the summoned is annoying. For that matter I kinda hate debuffers too - it hampers speed of play.

Loving the actual play reports. My group almost always starts from 1st level, and that 1st to 3rd level period is often ignore in player advice and guides. Too many builds are unpleasant grinds at low level.

Maybe its over correction, but I've totally changed my starting progression to a human with PBS and Precise Shot, and a ranged touch blast (Electric). Even if it means mathematically less DPR, I just prefer to feel like I'm contributing each round.

Excellent feedback. I'm super interested in the decision between the energy and physical attack. On paper the increased damage and options with a physical blast seem convincing, but in practice hitting every round may be more useful and more fun.

fwiw Ultimate Intrigue has a new feat you should be aware of:

Shadows of Fear (Combat).
req: +2d6 sneak attack [Rogue 3] or +2d8 hidden strike [Vigilante 6]
benefit: The first time each round that you hit a creature suffering from a fear effect, you can deal hidden strike or sneak attack damage as if you were flanking that creature (improved uncanny dodge and other effects that prevent flanking also prevent a hidden strike or sneak attack from this feat).

At the gate this probably one of the most reliable sneak attack methods a rogue can get. Works terrific with Enforcer, Cornugon Smash, or whatever. Not terrible feat intensive, so there's room for Power Attack + Furious Focus or Sap Adept & Sap Master.

You probably want Unchained Rogue 4 for the debilitating strike. Stacking shaken, sickened (thug), and disoriented is awesome. But you don't have to stick with rogue forever. With Accomplished Sneak Attacker there is a good way to keep up your sneak attack if you do a short Fighter or Slayer dip. A rogue 4 / Fighter (weapon master) 3 compared to a Rogue 7 is +1 BAB, nets one feat, and gets weapon training at the cost of 1d6 of sneak damage.

Brawler:
1 - Point Blank Shot
1H - Precise Shot
1B - Improved Unarmed Strike
2B - Quick Draw
3 - Rapid Shot
5 - Weapon Focus
5B - Startoss Style
7 - Ricochet Toss
8B - Startoss Comet
9 - Startoss Shower
11 - Improved Precise Shot
11B - Greater Weapon Focus

Martial Flexibility bonus feats:
Melee:
Power Attack, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, other misc melee as needed

While throwing:
Always an option: Distance Thrower and/or Far Shot as needed
Always an option: Just grab upcoming feat(s) on advancement track as needed
2: Usually Rapid Shot
4+: Weapon Specialization is an option
6+: Clustered Shots is an option
8+: Greater Weapon Focus is an option

In the end, the brawler is always going to be a little behind the fighter on thrown weapons. With Martial Flexibility, they should almost always have the same basic feats as the fighter, but only in ~3 fights per day, and it'll take a move...

Doesn't the brawler need martial focus to get ricochet shot?

Bolt Ace 5 / Unchained Rogue X

Weapon Finesse makes for a fun switch hitting. Not optimal, but fun.

That makes sense. I could swap Deadly Aim for Weapon Focus at 7th. Re blade without finesse: I would like to pick up weapon finesse, but thems the breaks when you take a flavor feat without race or class or bonus feats. Plus kinetic blade with electric blast is still a touch attack. Not really focused on switch hitting, just dont have anything better to do.

Could you post a build plan for your concept? i would assume there are only a few talents different between us due to you starting with eletric blast. I would point out though that at low levels i am not finding many enemies with that much swing between regular and touch AC. though with my abysmal accuracy even that extra 1-2 points would be nice to have...

Sure, just a sketch at this point. The actual character is starting at 1st level, and thusfar unplayed. Planned only through about 7 or so...

Blasts:
1. Electric
7. Thunderstorm Blast
7. Air Blast
Infusion:
1. Kinetic Blade [1] - burn 1
3. Extended Range [1] - burn 0
5. Thundering Infusion [1] = burn 0
9. Magnetic Infusion [3] - burn 2 OR Torrent [3] - burn 2
Utility:
1. Basic Aerokinesis
2. Defense - Air Shroud
2. Air’s Reach [1]
4. Air Cushion [1] - burn 0
6. Wings of Air [3] - burn 0
7. Expanded Element: Celerity

Feats:
1. (1) Childlike
3. (3) Point Blank Shot
3. (5) Precise Shot
7. (7) Deadly Aim

Traits:
the wealth one to start with a Cap of Human Guise.
Then maybe Helpful (halfling)? Or initiative or will saves.

I figure I'd take Kinetic Blade prior to Extended Range on the theory that Aeros can take Air's Reach at 2nd and therefore you really just have a few encounters where the range is so short. I'd rather have 60' range and the melee option for 2nd level then have to wait until 3rd for a melee option. Honestly, not a huge difference. Funny thing: prior to Metakinesis empower at 5th, Overwhelming Soul might be a better match for this character. A higher charisma helps this concepts (bluff & disguse) more. But once you get empower, I just see the CON mod of burn as the number of times I can drop an empowered blast. And that's far better than the 1x Overwhelming Soul effectively can empower.

One weird thing is that d20pfsrd refers to "Lightning Blast" with respect to errata related to Torrent. Actually, it refers to a FAQ here:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1h5#v5748eaic9tpo

But there is no such thing as "Lightning Blast." It should be "Electric Blast." I'm surely not the first person to flag that. Seifter?

Totally agree. I'm making an aero and trying to decide between a halfling with Childlike and a goblin with Roll With It. In either case I'm pushing back Precise Shot until 5th. So I figure maybe I should go with Electric for the ranged touch attack accuracy. But ugh, I may just leave my 5th level infusion empty as a protest.

need more lvl 2 infusions. Seems like a whole menu of mild debuff riders with a save would be a perfect fit. I guess that kind of describes Thundering, but I'd rather have dazzled or sickened. Deafened is sort of the lamest of the dirty trick options.

It's even worse for aero's who start with Electric Blast since at least Air Blast lets you pick between Pushing and Gusting. Electric only gets Thundering and Draining (you'll have both basic blasts if you double on aero up by the time Chain & Magnetic come online).

Besides, is there a rule that says you cannot enchant improvised weapons? (which it would be if there was not the feat)

Was this the face that launch'd a thousand ships,

Or stated another way, whether improvised weapons can be enchanted is a well trodden battlefield. Until an official FAQ equivalent to the Council of Constantinople's denouncement of arianism, the forum violence will not cease.

Remember that Bracers and the cracked ioun stone are both +1 competence bonuses to hit, and don't stack with Reckless Aim (or each other). Still, +2 is pretty decent even if it doesn't stack.

Traits:
Blade of Mercy (religion) - do nonlethal with slashing and +1 nonlethal dmg
Weapon: Greatsword
Feats - Fighter
1. (1) Bludgeoner
1. (Fighter 1) Power Attack
2. (Fighter 2) Cudgeler Style
3. (3) Improved Bull Rush
4. (Fighter 4) Divine Fighting Technique (greatsword battler)
5. (5) Rhino Charge
6. (Fighter 6) Vital Strike

Basically the idea is that Cudgeler is a nice pseudo size increase, which is always handy on a 2d6 weapon like the Greatsword. The Divine Fighting Technique allows for Vital Strike on a charge, which is fun when you are doing 3d6.

Rhino Charge and its Imp Bull Rush requirement are optional, but I suspect kinda handy. Slayer, Ranger, Brawler, and Warpriest could all pull it off pretty well. Enforcer and other intimidate stuff would combo great as well.

You could take Bludgeoner & Cudgeler Style at 1st, but for play-ability getting Power Attack on a 2-hander at 1st is probably more useful.

quick Overwhelming Soul question: because Mental Prowess can only reduce burn by 1 once per day from 6th to 9th, an Overwhelming Soul can effectively only use a composite blast 1 time each day (and that's with a move action Gather Power), correct? Otherwise it takes a full round Gather to use a composite.

I really like the idea: less bookkeeping (hooray); Cha key stat and social skills... but 1/day composite (and at 9th the choice of 1 maximize or 1 composite). Bleh. I guess maybe it still works with Aether since the composite is meh and the wild talents are generally zero burn.

(necrobump)
how would folks make a rock thrower with the advent of the Weapon Master's Handbook?

If it's allowed in your game. Those are way too cheap for the benefit they grant, and it's banned in PFS. The only GMs I know that allow it price it at 10,000 GP.

True, its underpriced. But crossbow users don't get adaptable longbows (and STR to damage), the manyshot feat, and suffer from the rapid reload feat tax. A little sugar won't hurt much.

I've been struck by a Confusion Curse and have failed me save.

I think you just have to be at peace with focusing on fun melee controller things with grapple and trip.

I'm making an trip focused wolf wildshaper that basically is a talking dog 24 hours a day. Feral Hunter 4 / Unchained Monk 1 / Lore Warden 2 at 7th (when the build hits its stride).

1. (1) Dirty Fighting (Combat) → retrain to xxxxxxxxx @6th
1. (H) Toughness → retrain to Weapon Focus (bite) @ 4th
2. (Hunter2) Precise Shot
3. (3) Improved Trip
5. (5) Shaping Focus
5. (Monk1) Improved Unarmed Strike & Combat Reflexes
6. (Fighter1) Vicious Stomp [req Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike]
6. (Lore Warden 2) Combat Expertise
7. (Fighter2) Feral Combat Training
7. (7) Greater Trip

gets +6 BAB (for greater trip ASAP), can flurry with bite, gets AoO if trip (Greater Trip) or if enemy falls prone (Vicious Stomp). Probably should do FCT at 6th instead of Stomp. Druid is better than Feral Hunter, but I just like the flavor of the Feral Hunter. Could drop the human race, instead just Dirty Fighting, replaced with Weapon Focus at 7th to qualify for Feral Combat Training. In which case a skinwalker would make a very flavorful build (werewolf & wolf guy!). At 4th get dog form. At 6th Ring of Eloquence + Beast of the Society = 24 hours of talking canine form. Pelt of the Beast is actually easy to Craft Wondrous if you had a spare feat.

You can probably find room to do 2 levels or ranger or slayer for Rapid Shot. Beteween the Hunter precise shot and rapid shot (without point blank shot requirement) a Feral Hunter / Slayer makes a good switch hitter at lower levels. The animal focus can switch from Dex to Str as you drop your bow and move in for flail tripping.

Sorry to bump this, but so much errata and new material has dropped in the last month that I think its sort of fallen off the radar.

The errata was as follows: “This ability alters
animal focus and replaces the hunter tactics and speak
with master class abilities.”

I'm reading that as meaning it ALTERS but does not REPLACE, and therefore since nowhere else in the archetype do you lose SECOND ANIMAL FOCUS that you get to apply a second animal/feral focus to yourself. The language of "second animal focus" is squirrely, but the since feral focus alters, I think it trumps.

An even deeper reading is to note that there was a preliminary errata that specifically dropped second animal focus, but the official July 2015 errata let it stand.

See:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rwsg?Three-ACG-Errata-You-Didnt-FAQ

Quote:

12 - Caster Level

9 - CON (20 + 2 Belt + 2 Stat + 4 Size)
4 - Improved/Greater Grapple
4 - Adhesive Brawling Armor Enchant
2 - Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver
1 - Trait that improves CMB

re-read telekinesis, you use your caster level in place of ALL of your CMB. You can also only do a maneuver with it once a round.

So you are looking at 12+9 only, and 2 rounds to try and get to pin

I'm pretty sure Sir Plaid is correct. A TKer doesn't get a good damage composite blast option, and while in theory combat maneuvers would be a fun plan B, in practice it doesn't work. Both potential issues are easily resolved with further paizo splat books, but until then it seems like a TKer is best reserved for E6 games. I just don't see what the bring to the table in combat from about 7th til 14th. Probably fine in a sub-optimized home game, where folks are having fun with cool concepts and the DM just eyeballs combats.

My initial interest in the kineticist was purely related to telekinesis. But I think I'm in love.

An ode to Stone Sculptor:

I just love abilities like this. Pathfinder has far too few. At the level you get (6th at the earliest, although I suspect most geokineticists would be taking Earth Glide and wait until 7th with expanded or extra wild talent feat), you can already move the equivalent of 6 yards of concrete per minute. Note the duration is instant... the changes are permanent and AFAIK its not really something you can dispel. Its your permanent mark on the campaign world.

Think of the fun a player can have. They can build awesome stone forts. For free! You can make amazing bolt holes, with nearly undetectable voids in the ground, complete with small air holes and the only access via Earth Glide. For a sandboxy game, or something like Kingmaker AP, it would be amazing. Even in a simple caravan guard job, every night you could probably create a ringwall with less than an hours work. And then in the morning, put it back. In dungeons, you can easily make protected places to take short and long rests.

I'm just geeking out about making little drawings of my PCs hidey holes and party fortress between games. Make your own dungeons! Entire underground cities! The work is crude, but a rough hewn cave should be easy. Load up on craft (sculpture) and knowledge (engineering) and I'll bet any home game GM would let you have free reign. Pit traps, inner wells, secret passages, oh my! Maybe a homebrew utility power "Stone Sculpting Finesse" (or disintegrate equivalent, maybe just shift stone?) to unleash yet more creativity. I guess there is some conservation of mass quibbles that can be made, but let the bean counters eat a mud pie. Made of stone.

Maybe the expert class archer is equally valuable (or greater) in combat, but can the expert literally change the world?

Not that weird of a question. PCs and NPCs have been dying/poisoned/cursed/catatonic for 40 years.

Seems like since the TKer doesn't get a composite blast truly worth spending the burn, that Overwhelming Soul might work.

Also - is the CMB for Telekinetic Maneuvers (CL + MOD) worthwhile at mid levels? My quick math says at about 7th level the average CMD is 26, and a Kineticist is probably 7+5 + +12. Maybe another +2 if they want to do Combat Expertise and an improved maneuver feat. Almost 50-50, so I guess it could be worth it. Probably useless by 11+. Which is a shame, because without a good composite blast, damage won't even keep up (even by kineticist standards) at those levels.

From a charop perspective, is Foe Throw worth the extra fort save to do double damage?

I think a little discussion of how a typical combat/blasting would go would be helpful. What are the usual tactics, that sort of thing Most of the kineticist have good mobility and utility. The infusions are situationally useful, but none seems like it would be an every round go-to move. So far so good.

I'm not totally clear on how behind is a aether kineticist do when it comes to damage. Lacking a composite blast would hurts, but it takes a while it seems. Even if you dip into another element at 7, you don't qualify for any higher base damage composite blasts. You can't use infusion specialist to reduce the built in composite burn. Is the typical non-aether blaster only launching a composite blast as a standard (gather power as move) 2-3 times per day (buffer plus maybe 2 burn)? In theory every kineticist attacking at range pretty much relies on an empowered basic blast (or Foe Throw or Bowling) from round to round; with the option for non-aetherists to pop off composite blasts at the cost of a burn At low to mid levels it looks like taking on burn to do a composite blast (instead of an empowered simple blast) isn't worth that much. At level 7 that something like 6d6+15 for an empower simple blast (free with gather) vs 8d6+12 composite blast (1 burn after gather). Basically even, so probably not worth it. At 9th that 7d6+16 vs 10d6+14. Still pretty close. From a blasting perspective Overwhelming Soul doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice for an aether kineticist until later...

At 11th when Supercharge comes online, and a non-aether blaster gets to composite blast with impunity, and they can throw around an empowered composite blast for just 1 burn. At 11th an aester is doing a 6d6+10 (maxed for 52-ish?); while others are doing 12d6+16 (58-ish), but can really bring the hammer down with an empowered composite blasting doing 18d6+24 (87).

[not sure how accurate my math is...]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/estoc

So with an exotic proficiency feat, you can finesse with two hands. That helps with power attack, but I don't think there is a way to do +dex to damage or use a swashbuckler's precise strike. Still, kinda interesting. Maybe a good one for melee rogues?

Here's an idea:
Swashbucker 1 / Fighter X
1. (Swashbuckler1) Weapon Finesse [not used]
1. (1) Power Attack
1. (H) Furious Focus
2. (Fighter1) Dodge
3. (3) Extra Panache
3. (Fighter2) Combat Reflexes
5. (5) Mobility
5. (Fighter4) Combat Patrol

His main weapon is a Fighter's Fork. He sort of switch hits between close-in melee (power attacking and gaining panache with killing blow, and daring folks to attack him for a 1H riposte), but also can step back and do some Reach + Combat Patrol. The Fighter's Fork is 7k, so realistically you're looking at 6th level before you can buy one. You could switch around the feats and do Weapon Focus + Weapon Specialization if you think it would work out better.

At the end of the day, you're still just sitting around full attacking and not really enganging tactically in the encounter. Boring, IMO.

The halfling slinger is such an iconic type, and one of my favorite characters to play. I've long struggled with how to make it "work" in pathfinder. What I've settled on is this:

I build a halfling shortbow user (rogue, ranger, ninja, figher/archer, zen archer, magus, arcane archer, etc). I take a bow oriented archetype. Bow magic weapons and related items. Bow feats. And then, when I hit the table, I bring out a sling mini. I ask the DM and other players if they mind if when we are RPing, can we just pretent he's got a sling. Mechanically its all bow - no cheating or mixing (no matter how much I'd love to take sling flail or the +1 racial to hit feat). Everyone says "yeah, whatever." If someone really cared, I'd bring a spare bow halfing mini (actually I don't own one, but I guess I could look).

In theory the problem would be if the party discovers a cool magic sling, and there is some confusion. In practice that seems to never crop up. Most players don't care about stuff not related to their own character sheet. If PFS play, the magic item economy is so abstracted and fungible it doesn't matter either.

Now if I said lets pretend he is throwing waterballons, I suspect I'd get pushback. I guess it could be a mechanical problem with some cleric domain weapon issues, but that's easy enough to just avoid those though caes. PF suppots a zillion different bow builds, so avoiding a holy favored weapon rule bending isn't necessary. I've never tried do a crossbow build, and do a similar reskin, but if I stayed within the crossbow lane, I suspect no one would care. Just don't mix the feats and live and let live.

from the Monster Codex.
* requires a "wasted" hex
* requires racial heritigae (goblin) to qualify
* then another "wasted" hex to actually take Mud Witch.

But then you can turn into muddy ooze! Rad!

While in ooze form, you can't use 95% of your other hexes. Or cast spells. They made it very hard to abuse, and I'm totally ok with it. I just need something to actually do while an ooze. It seems wonderfully unique. I just need some ideas for what direction to take a character concept that can turn into an ooze.

One idea I had was a master thief. I could take a trapfinding trait. With a witchy Int, there are plenty of skills to go around. I'm probably low on feats initially, as the human bonus feat makes the most sense to grab racial heritage. Plus I may need Extra Hex in order to get the coveted Mud Witch early, and yet still have slumber or some other actually useful hex to play with.

Multi with monk maybe? I guess maybe unarmed attacks work. Stunning Fist in an EX rather than a Su, so it should work. You really only need 1 or 2 levels of witch, so a dip is possible. An oozy rogue seems cool. Ideas?

maybe additional traits feat:
Magical Lineage for heightened burning hands at later levels; or Precocious Spellcaster to maximize early effectiveness.

And then maybe an initiative trait, or another skill (bluff, diplomacy, or stealth) trait?

I'm wanting to create a sneaky mage. I'm aware of the sage/seeker sorcerer. It is interesting. Wizard is interesting too. But I really love the idea of the dimensional slide exploit with the arcanist playtest. I figure decent dex and high int, plus extra skills via traits and/or feats would let me get most the sneaky skills that seem relevant without having to dip.

Ack, look at what you've done. Further analysis paralysis. But yes, warpriest does seem interesting. Three bonus feats over the first six levels, but also some casting to keep things interesting. And the sacred weapon damage means the sling is more viable, if my DM doesn't want warslinger to apply to halfling staff slings. And also some inherent weapon enhancement at fourth, likely d6 elemental damage. Still difficult to get imp precise shot, but sling flail might be able to get nabbed earlyish.

I've searched and read a good half dozen halfling slinger related posts, but still don't know which direction seems the most "fun." I've settled on the concept of a new character on my head: a cocky, fun-loving halfling, with an aptitude for his sling. We are starting a new homegame at level 1, and hope to stick with these characters for a long campaign. Only one other player has an interest in min/max-ing, so I don't want to overwhelm in the game. I figure a slightly un-optimum concept would be a good starting point, since I tend to obsess about character builds.

(fwiw: game is likely to be Paizo-only, although I suspect I can talk my way into letting the warslinger racial trait apply to the halfling staff sling, notwithstanding the terrible no good FAQ ruling. But not likely to get a "zen slinger" or similar homebrew.)

I just am not sure what direction to go. A ranger or slayer gets those essential archery feats quickly. Our GM will likely be a stickler to cover rules, and thus precise shot and improved precise shot would be useful. However, I worry that archery/slinging is kinda boring. Just sitting back and rapid shot firing isn't tactically interesting. However, being at least a decent contributor to combat would be good. Interestingly the slayer playtest potentially gets more feats up front, as he could take a rogue talent for a combat feat quickly.

A bard might be fun, and I think I'd like helping out with inspire courage and other party buffs. In combat he could also help with aid another (helpful trait) actions. I'd lean arcane duelist. But I worry that a slinger would be feat starved, and even with deadly aim, bladethirst, and arcane strike, would never really be very threatening. The lingering performance feat would put the ranged combat feat chain even further behind.

A rogue (well, ninja) would be fun, and I love vanish. But I want to stay away from sap adept feat cheese, and without that I'm not sure he'd ever be particularly useful. Insert normal rogue complaints here.

The magus is interesting. With a staff sling I could switch hit. But the Myrmidarch doesn't get ranged spellstrike until 4th, and even then it kinda is meh. Plus to really get going I'd probably want to do magical lineage, and that might be similar to the sap adept in appearing kinda cheesey for most of my group (I'd do it anyway!). Having rime spell to combine with frostbite for melee and snowball for ranged spellstrike seems very fun - and ranged debuffing and crowd control seems a little more tactically interesting than just spamming damage. Taking that rime spell feat still messes with the feat progression, ugh.

Lastly I'm considering the alchemist. I could be a bomb thrower, and just sorts handwaive that he's using a sling. Halflings after all have a glorious reputation for being masters of the tanglefoot bag and other sneaky tricks. I like the possibility of being a limited party buffer with infusions. Quickish alchemy, and I could toss out real tanglefoot bags and flame vials, etc. I've never seen an alchemist in action, and I'm not sure if they are fun to play.