Supergirl


Television

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*has a hard time believing they'll get the Arrowverse on a single Earth...but we'll see come Fall 2019.*

Like I said, Hoechlin is kind of my favorite Superman now.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Thomas Seitz wrote:

*has a hard time believing they'll get the Arrowverse on a single Earth...but we'll see come Fall 2019.*

Like I said, Hoechlin is kind of my favorite Superman now.

I didn't speculate they'd combine all Earths from the shows into a single Earth, I speculated that they'd combine all of the shows into one Earth. it would be smart to keep a smaller number around, like Earth-2 and Earth-3, and Earth-19, since they already have a fair amount of history with Flash. I can envision in Crisis that a bunch of Earths get destroyed, and the ones from the current shows (Earth-1, Earth-38, and Earth-whatever Black Lightning is set on) are in peril and need to be merged to save them. After the dust settles, maybe 12 remain - still enough for dimension hopping goodness, but not quite so many as before.


Saint Bernard wrote:
I have been hoping for Green Lantern to show up since Flash premiered. Back in the 60s they did a lot together. I can see Infinite Crisis changing Diggle into John Steward if the writers decide to end up with only a single Earth. Just have to wait and see what they do.

Brave and the Bold was often Barry and Hal, or Hal and Olie. That famous Speedy cover was B&B.


Episode 410, Suspicious Minds, was pretty good plot wise. Good use of Jonn to fix things in the end. Glad the winter break is over.


Eh not as fond of this as some others (especially since it seems that messing with Alex's mind MIGHT not be the best thing even if she consented), but I'm pretty sure this is a stop gap measure until someone figures out a way to get Amanda Waller-lite out of the way.


So what did everyone think of John Cryer's Lex Luthor? I have thoughts but I wanted the internet's first.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I really liked his Lex. It was great they had the prologue scene from 4 years ago when Lex was in his prime to establish that Cryer could pull it off before introducing him in the current day on his "deathbed" as it were.

The extended final scene with him was just amazing, and when he shouted "Miss Teschmacher!" he fully solidified that he could hold is own against other portrayals of Lex (and definitely better than some).

Silver Crusade

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Honestly? Probably my favorite live action Lex


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I rolled my eyes at the casting news but honestly...He was pretty great...far exceeding my expectations.

Silver Crusade

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Same Jawa, same. I've only ever thought of him as a comedic actor, and hated T&aHM, but his Lex was absolutely diabolical


I thought he did a great job. I have to agree he was one of the best to portray the role.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I thought Lex was good. To be silly and superficial, lookswise, I didn't like the goatee at first, but it makes him his own Lex. He is really got the madness but sheer manipulativeness and genius down. I am disappointed in Lena's general dupedness and helplessness, but he was superbly villainous as he should be--and if anyone can dupe Lena, it should be Lex. LOVED the "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" exit.

As good as he was, I was weirdly more stunned by how hardcore Eve's turn was (I'd forgotten about the origins of the character). That was horrifying and awesome.

I assume this stalls Lena's own seeming slide into evil mad science... or does it? Hm.

Are Lex and Jimmy (hee) cured or do they have superpowers now?

Not-Waller showed some unexpected depth these past couple episodes.

I'm so annoyed with the J'Onn vs. Manchester plot, and am glad it is finally over... but far, far too late. J'onn could have stopped him so much sooner, and the whole manpain b%&~!#!& of it all was annoying to watch. First of all, I am a Quaker (a religion known for its adherence to pacifism) and someone trained in nonviolent activism, and I've NEVER seen any pacifist plotline written well on television, and this is no exception. Pacifism is not passive-ism. It means you don't fight or kill but there are ways to actively deal with problems, and you are still more than willing to risk your own life to help people. J'onn was just running away from his problems, not being a person of peace in a meaningful way. (I know I'm not even expressing this right, it's hard to explain. I just didn't like how it was done. It at a gut feeling level didn't feel genuine.)

Secondly, speaking as a pacifist and person trained in nonviolent activism, J'onn should have just frickin' killed the m+%#@!!~+#@& ages ago. Even with my beliefs (and note the following are really my personal beliefs, not anyone else's), I recognize that--well, not so much that there are irredeemable people, but a person has to want to be redeemed for redemption to be possible. You have to be self-aware and want to change. I want to believe the situations that call for it are extremely rare rare, and it's easier to say this about fictional characters--but sometimes the least harm you can do is kill the person who inevitably would otherwise do greater harm (and still then only as a last resort--but preferably before they use impossibly powerful artifacts to hurt and kill people at political protests and hospitals). Alternately, he should have used his telepathy far more and just mind-bent the guy so hard until he was harmless. I get that somehow that's considered a great Martian violence, if you can't change his mind... change his mind. Especially when you can tell otherwise there is no way to change him. And yeah, I get the whole thing wasn't that J'onn didn't really want to believe Manchester--posterchild for boyfriends of fridged girlfriends everywhere ("F#@# her! It's my manpain that matters!")--was irredeemable, he wanted to believe that he himself was (and of course now we'll have buckets more boring introspection on his part about that. Poor Fiona. I wonder if anyone really remembers her or what she would have really wanted). It was just a clunky as s*#! narrative to get there.


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All I know is killing Manchester Black seems a waste. Mostly because I wanted more of the Elite to show up and also you know maybe create their own kind of league.

Mostly I'm just glad we got a more than passable Lex and certainly a smarter one than the crazy one in DCEU.

His yell for Tessmacher was spot on.

Silver Crusade

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That heel turn was incredible. I didn't see it coming at all.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

It was, Cori Marie!

I'd argue, Thomas, that perhaps the way they used Manchester Black was a waste. But as written, he needed to die, and sooner than he did.

I also get what they were showing here with the Elite is they are all in it for themselves, and wouldn't work well together--ultimately they are their own best enemies. The idea of a Legion of Doom is always awesome, but the problem is a lot of the villains they team up aren't by their nature team players. Greyer groups like Secret Six and Suicide Squad work better because they have enough inclination and desire to share their burdens as well as the glory.

Now that I think about it, if J'onn was a true pacifist, he would have let Manchester kill him. Or even goaded Manchester into killing him.

This way Manchester would have lost his philosophical debate with J'onn, because J'onn would have died being a "man of peace" rather than submit to Manchester's assertion that deep down he will fight. In facing that loss, Manchester would be demoralized and out a target for his rage and madness, and thus weakened and more easily subdued by the other heroes.

Of course the show couldn't let one of their main characters die, so it has to go the other way.


I'm not sure I agree with that...so much as I will agree they could have given him and the rest of the Elite a much grander purpose than they did.

Also while kind of villain-y, the Elite struck me more like a Dark Justice League (at least in the comics) and I had hoped that would translate over. Which it didn't...

But yes they couldn't just let J'onn die an honorable death. Mostly because that would have killed any good will with the fan base.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Now that I think about it, if J'onn was a true pacifist, he would have let Manchester kill him. Or even goaded Manchester into killing him.

Wouldn't [successfully] goading Manchester into killing him have made J'onn the killer -- thus not a man of peace in that moment -- and reduced Manchester to merely the method of killing?

Influencing someone else to kill so that you don't have to doesn't sound very pacifistic to me, but then I'm not a pacifist myself, so...but letting Manchester kill him, sure, I can definitely see that as a peace-oriented viewpoint: "I won't resort to violence, even to save myself."

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

That's a bit of a slippery slope--if I tell you, "hey, that car is unlocked with the keys in," and you steal it, am I the thief? I may be an accessory, but you are still an independent making your own choice.

But you're right, in the name of true peace, someone should not try to manipulate someone into killing. My thought process was along the lines of finding a way that J'onn could force Manchester to view himself as what he was, without using J'onn's nature as a crutch or excuse. (Which I think was what was happening--Manchester was using J'onn's past as a justification for why he was now behaving the way he was, rather than taking responsibility.) But it would be more, yes--J'onn sacrificing himself to protect someone else or allowing Manchester to kill him would be a peaceful, if extreme, way of making the point. (Indeed, if J'onn, an alien, died to protect a human from the Elite in particular, it would have spread a powerful message.)

True nonviolent activism does involve being willing to let the crap be kicked out of you to make your point if need be--part of the result is it indeed makes the other side look like monsters, but you don't actually want to goad them into it or that undercuts your message. It's more--you hope to behaving lovingly and peacefully and hope others follow suit, but if they do not, it needs to be clear it's their choice to be harmful while you're taking the high road. So yes, I shouldn't have said that.


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So not only did this show up end what I thought Lex was doing, it up ended itself in lots of ways. I mean "Hey let's give myself cancer to get my sister to fix the Black Kryptonite serum so I can cure the not quite Bizarro Kara and turn her into a weapon so I can defeat her to become a hero in the eyes of the world."

Unnecessarily complex? Maybe, but no question its vintage Lex Luthor.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I loved the attention to detail this episode had, fitting everything in around all of the previous episodes this season. I'm also wanting Lex to stick around beyond just this season. Even if in future seasons it's only as a recurring villain for a 2-3 episode arc.

Silver Crusade

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JoelF847 wrote:
I loved the attention to detail this episode had, fitting everything in around all of the previous episodes this season. I'm also wanting Lex to stick around beyond just this season. Even if in future seasons it's only as a recurring villain for a 2-3 episode arc.

Honestly, I just really want a Superman spinoff. Tyler has been great. Bitsie was fantastic as Lois. Cryer has been horrifying as Lex. Get them all together please.

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Cori Marie wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
I loved the attention to detail this episode had, fitting everything in around all of the previous episodes this season. I'm also wanting Lex to stick around beyond just this season. Even if in future seasons it's only as a recurring villain for a 2-3 episode arc.
Honestly, I just really want a Superman spinoff. Tyler has been great. Bitsie was fantastic as Lois. Cryer has been horrifying as Lex. Get them all together please.

Or, try something experimental, stealing from some animated shows of the past, and re-tool Supergirl to be something like "Supergirl & Superman" with separate arcs for one or the other, and a few episodes for crossovers between them. I'd be happy with and 8-10 episode Supergirl arc a 8-10 episode Superman arc, and 2-8 episodes of a crossover arc or independent crossover mini-arcs.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Is it me or is this show getting good all of a sudden? I've always liked it but the quality ranges wide; last few episodes have been on an upswing.

Really liked this one--and yeah, Thomas, they have Lex nailed.

Melissa Benoist continues to astound with being able to play various alternate Karas and make them all feel difference.

And I LOVED the Linda Lee reference!

Personally as for Superman, I can live without yet another take on the Superman saga... it's been done. A lot. And, mind, I loved most of them. But I'm good. That said, yes, Tyler Hoechlin is a great Supes and I liked their take on Lois a lot too. If they went in that direction they'd have a good cast, but I've no idea what they'd do that hasn't already been done a gajillion times before in various shades of 4-color to dark-n-gritty. If I am wrong I will welcome it.


I just think having a decent Superman for once is something that's missing in DC's wheel house. But that's me.

But I als agree with joel I'd like to see that cast in a show about Superman and Supergirl.

Silver Crusade

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DeathQuaker wrote:

Is it me or is this show getting good all of a sudden? I've always liked it but the quality ranges wide; last few episodes have been on an upswing.

Really liked this one--and yeah, Thomas, they have Lex nailed.

Melissa Benoist continues to astound with being able to play various alternate Karas and make them all feel difference.

And I LOVED the Linda Lee reference!

Personally as for Superman, I can live without yet another take on the Superman saga... it's been done. A lot. And, mind, I loved most of them. But I'm good. That said, yes, Tyler Hoechlin is a great Supes and I liked their take on Lois a lot too. If they went in that direction they'd have a good cast, but I've no idea what they'd do that hasn't already been done a gajillion times before in various shades of 4-color to dark-n-gritty. If I am wrong I will welcome it.

Superman and Son hasn't really been done on screen. With Lois being pregnant, we could easily do a time jump of a few years, and have Clark and Jon

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Thomas Seitz wrote:


But I als agree with joel I'd like to see that cast in a show about Superman and Supergirl.

Sure. And Benoist and Hoechlin work well together.

Cori Marie wrote:
Superman and Son hasn't really been done on screen.

Except in Superman Returns, a.k.a. the reason we better know Brandon Routh as the Atom (even though he made a quite good Superman... it's just the rest of that movie...).

Quote:
With Lois being pregnant, we could easily do a time jump of a few years, and have Clark and Jon

I guess in fairness it wouldn't be "Superman as Deadbeat Dad." Me personally, I have never enjoyed little kids in the superhero genre, especially with the angsting of "I must protect you!" going full force. Captain Marvel was the first movie or TV series where I didn't want to kill the child in it, and notably the child character is not the hero's own offspring. Kids showing up are one of the many things that wrecked Arrow. Black Lightning is the first show that I've seen really works with a family, but the "kids" in that show are older, one of whom has achieved majority.

Okay, I lied. There's also The Incredibles. But to me those films are the exceptions that prove many rules.

Perhaps we could be pleasantly surprised, but here's the question: what can we realistically expect to come from the Berlantiverse?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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PS: Ray looking at Kara during one of the first crossovers and saying, "She looks like my cousin," is one of my favorite Easter Eggs/Shoutouts. :)


For me, Super Girl Lauren Wasser
https://medium.com/@amomama/the-girl-with-the-golden-legs-the-inspiring-sto ry-of-lauren-wasser-e1c3ce4a97de


Nice story, Roy.

But I do think we COULD see a kind of Superman Family story. Mostly because I think that giving Lois her own kind of Battle suit (AKA the Hellbat suit) would be great. Especially if they have to go rescue baby Jon from Darkseid or Mongol.


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DeathQuaker wrote:

Is it me or is this show getting good all of a sudden? I've always liked it but the quality ranges wide; last few episodes have been on an upswing.

Really liked this one--and yeah, Thomas, they have Lex nailed.

Melissa Benoist continues to astound with being able to play various alternate Karas and make them all feel difference.

And I LOVED the Linda Lee reference!

Personally as for Superman, I can live without yet another take on the Superman saga... it's been done. A lot. And, mind, I loved most of them. But I'm good. That said, yes, Tyler Hoechlin is a great Supes and I liked their take on Lois a lot too. If they went in that direction they'd have a good cast, but I've no idea what they'd do that hasn't already been done a gajillion times before in various shades of 4-color to dark-n-gritty. If I am wrong I will welcome it.

This has IMHO been a really strong season. I didn't care all that much for season 2 (ugh Mon-El), and couldn't even finish season 3. But I am digging this season and where it has been going.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Speaking of battlesuits, what happened to Alex's? Didn't she have one she used for the big brawls?

Season 3 had rare moments of brilliance among lots and lots of... not. This one started a little rough (and anvilicious as heck) but seems to have mainly increased in quality, especially since the return from winter break.


DQ,

I thought she broke it and with no Winn to fix it.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Maybe. You'd think someone could (Brainy?).

Last episode wasn't as strong as last weeks, but still interesting to see what's unfolding. Liked the stuff with Lena and Kara--and loved that no one believed that Supergirl did what Red Daughter did. I was worried for a minute mindwiped-Alex might suspect her.


DQ,

There might have been that second in back of some peoples minds...but I think we all know, deep down, Alex's knows who Supergirl is...and is not.

And yes, while the DEO, Lena and Amanda Waller lite might not believe it, not everyone can see things as clearly as they do.

Also I was convinced for a second that Jimmy Olsen got super hearing...until proven otherwise.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Alex subconsciously feels that connection, yes. But Alex's head and heart have fought before, which is why there was that second of worry. The bigger thing to trust is that Alex ultimately usually does the right thing. (Can I also just say how much I love Alex? I love Alex.)

Oh absolutely things are going to be bad for Kara. As you mention it, I appreciated that Not-Waller recognized these actions weren't Supergirl's MO--she may not like Supergirl, but she knows the reason they're at odds is indeed because of Supergirl's ethical code, not lack of it. The problem is the DEO will still be ordered to find and capture or kill Supergirl, and there's a fair chance Not-Waller will have to obey orders, or feel she has to. It'll be real interesting how she deals with this.


I love Alex too. I just hope she and Lena can figure something out before Supergirl gets hauled off to...whatever they do with rogue Kryptonians that isn't the Phantom Zone.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
I love Alex too. I just hope she and Lena can figure something out before Supergirl gets hauled off to...whatever they do with rogue Kryptonians that isn't the Phantom Zone.

Pick any backwater planet with low tech and a red sun.

Silver Crusade

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My Dreamer mask came today

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Awesome!! Is it just a collectible or for a cosplay project? Either way, looks fantastic.

Silver Crusade

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Cosplay project. I'm looking to hopefully have the costume done by SDCC when I'll hopefully be in the Supergirl press room again. I'd die if I get to meet Nicole in costume.


Latest episode was good. I like it when the writers have Kara being intelligent and using good detective skills instead of just counting on her powers getting her through. The scene where Jonn returned the staff to the Martian desert was very well done. The next episode should have a show down between Red Daughter and her. I also expect a show down between Lean and Lex.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I agree this was good. Liked Dreamer's role too.

Definitely looking forward to Kara v Red Daughter. Lena's been having some great growth--I really thought they were just going to turn her evil and the complex stuff they are giving her is so much better.


Well it helps that her brother is a truly a dick. Even moreso than the rest of the family.

Also I hope they fix Jimmy's super powers.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

"Fix" like stabilize or "fix" like remove?


More like remove but stabilize for a time is okay too.


Once more in the "Will the Real Miss Tessmacher" I am disappointed in how the writers have Supergirl fight. What is the use of super speed if you never use it. Except in the Man of Steel movie, all Kryptonian fight like brutes. She could have easily subdued all of the Tessmacher clones by running around them, sitting them on the ground and tying them up. Probably take less than 1 second in real time. We could have seen it from her viewpoint and it would have show cased her being an intelligent warrior. Wasted opportunity.

At least they had Jonn fighting and using some more innovative tactics. Using intangibility to keep from being hit was a great tactic, all the while trying to reason with his opponent.

Kara and also Clark should not rely on hit them until they fall down.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

The writers need to play some superhero roleplaying games with each other and learn to adapt to dealing with lots of powers. I will say there was a point where they were all surrounding her, and I said to the TV, "You can fly, Kara," and then she did actually fly up. Maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm not coaching the TV screen adequately. ;) But yes, they constantly forget her superspeed.

But I agree they did great with J'Onn, best I think they've used him in awhile.

I wish Kara had just told Lena. She should have done it anyway and let the fallout happen. Of course, Lena should also have figured it out by now anyway, but still. Of course they'll go for the big dramatic friendship breakup later.


To be fair, when you're an almost god alien super, it's kind of hard to not just want to hit stuff. But yeah, more of Kara's OTHER powers than brute strength would have been nice.

We'll see if her fight with Red Daughter goes better than this...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I love Alex so so so much. That is all.


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Alex was great, but everything with Brainy was great this episode, and a twist I didn't see coming

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