Ah. Well if you got other sources...then yes I believe you.
Of course, they could still do something different with the "mystical connection", she doesn't have to be a superhero in this version. We'll see.
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Decent episode. Really liked Alex's part. Worried J'onn is going to be sidelined for more vision quest b##%*+!@. They either need to use him or if they can't afford it, let him go. I don't want him to go, but I got tired of him sitting in meditation all day last season.
Kara should just leave CatCo. They make bank on having a Pulitzer winning writer, it's their loss if she goes. (plus I have never been impressed with how they write about journalism-based stories... Kara was wanting to write her own biased unresearched schlock a couple seasons ago, now she's the champion of ethics?). Yes, yes, Kara being plucky and stubborn blah blah blah. I hope she invested her $15,000 prize money wisely.
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@DeathQuaker, I agree with you that Alex did a great part. I also agree that they are wasting great asset in J'onn. The writers keep forgetting he is a near Batman level detective with Superman like powers. He is one of my favorite Justice League but they need to use him more.
I agree that Kara should just leave Catco. The transition from writing unresearched biased pieces to demanding journalistic integrity is a pretty normal growth pattern for real world journalists. So I am not having a problem with her growth. Bottom line on Kara staying at Catco is no Krytonian needs a job. She could easily just live with the DEO or take over their old facility in the desert or even take over an abandoned island somewhere. If both she and Superman need the identity for social contact, then there are not too many jobs she would not excel at.
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When I was briefly a journalist, I pushed for integrity from the get go. Of course I had to work to remove bias from my writing but I was well aware of that. My teachers and editors taught me well. (I am not saying I was a good reporter, just that was an issue I was aware of and pushed for from the beginning.) Maybe it's different now with so many people getting bad examples from the Internet.
Catco worked best when Cat Grant was around. It feels like it has served its purpose and then some. Kara's big concern was "needing a life" outside of superheroing. Given she has a solid network of friends she really has that regardless of work. As you say, she could do anything. Including hire a lawyer to get her out of her contract.
Well regardless of whether or not she leaves, I do think we're going to find out more about her boss as the season moves on.
But that move by Lena...DAMN that was cold.
It is sad to see Lena become the sister Lex always wanted. I really don't see her turning from the darkness. Somewhere, either during or after the crisis crossovers, I expect Lena and Lex reuniting and becoming a team.
While this is not to deny Lena's dark turn, she killed Lex herself. She REALLY hates him. While it's not impossible--Lex is awfully manipulative--Lena is unlikely to join forces with Lex.
I also think she may still realize she's on a collision course with evil, but the question is will she be forgiven--and it becomes increasingly likely not.
I had forgotten about Lena killing Lex at the end of last season. So no super genius team up. I hope you are right about her realizing she is going to the dark side quickly. It would be nice if one Luthor was on Team Good.
Well it might not be a blocker to the whole "Will they team up to save the Multiverse?" but I doubt they'll go full on "Sibling Team Evil" together.
Also I'm still wondering if Lena isn't in over her head with the whole Leviathan thing. But we'll see.
As for redeeming Lena? Maybe...but I wouldn't hold out that much hope right now.
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Lex was ressurected by the (anti?) Monitor at the end of the season, and is going to be in Crisis, so who knows if they team up or not. Regardless, his death won't be a blocker.
For clarification's sake, I wasn't saying they wouldn't team up because he's dead (as indeed he isn't). I'm saying there are odds against them teaming up because Lena hates Lex enough to have killed him, and Lex tends to hold grudges (he might be proud of Lena for killing him, but he'd still also be mad).
Plus if they end go agreeing on something, Lena might get the flash of insight she's been headed down a darker path than she's allowed herself to acknowledge.
Now maybe in Crisis, there's A Lena that may team up with A Lex, but I would be surprised if the ones as written did, unless the writers do some serious character development gymnastics.
In any case, we'll see if Lena is ready to do "Can I save the multiverse?"
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Now maybe in Crisis, there's A Lena that may team up with A Lex, but I would be surprised if the ones as written did, unless the writers do some serious character development gymnastics.
Lena running into a darker Lena from another Earth who is full-on evil, more Lex than Lex, could be the splash of cold water she needs to recognize her own behavior going over the line, and lead to her deciding to rein it in before she goes too far.
Or something else could occur, she could meet a dispirited Lena from another Earth whose best friend Kara is dead, and never recovered from that loss. She could meet a shiny happy Lena who has much less betrayal issues and tons of friends and is living her best life, and feel annoyed that this could have been her if she could just let it go. She could die and get replaced by a different Lena from another Earth (which sounds all too WB, quick, abandon the character we wrote into a corner, and replace them with an AU version that everyone just pretends is the original Harrison Wells / Laurel Lance, and avoids ever mentioning the one that died!).
Eh, I'm not sure that Crisis will have time to dive deep into Supergirl-show-specific issues, or that Lena will even get to do more than cameo in it. It's got a ton of cameos to (fan)service, and various Arrow and Flash storylines to wrap up.
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She's in the Supergirl Crisis teaser, so I imagine she'll at least be in the Supergirl episode of the crossover
Cool! I was wondering if this was going to be one of those 'crossovers' that mostly happens on the Arrow/Flash 'Earth 1' with only a visit from Supergirl, and no other characters from her Earth. I liked it better when there's more 'crossover' (such as when Alex hooked up with Sara Lance).
With the Earth 1 people not having a famous Superman or infamous Lex Luthor, it's amusing that none of them will necessarily have any preconceptions about the Luthor name, and Lena, who is always on the backfoot about people's expectations because of her family name, it going to be meeting a bunch of heroes who have no idea what she's so defensive about. :)
Set,
Well maybe not but I'm pretty sure that while Lex isn't a huge name, perhaps Lionel was. I mean we dunno. I do know this; Lena clearly upped her acting game AND I still can't figure out how Brainy and Alex got out of that place at the end.
But I guess we'll see if Monitor does something to spin this around. We'll see.
I stopped watching halfway through last night, bored, and apparently I missed all the amazing. I'll go back and watch during the hiatus.
DQ,
I wouldn't say this was the best Supergirl episode, but it had some pathos towards the end with Lena and Kara.
So, the first person I saw in Crisis was Burt Ward and the second was Wil Wheaton.
Man, this is awesome. (Even if it's very sad to consider that the world of Batman '66 has been destroyed.)
So far so good!
I wonder if they're gonna go pick up Old Man Ollie?
On the subject of Supergirl specifically, while Lena's "you're not my friend" dialogue was heavy handed, I liked the interaction with her and Alex nonetheless. Maybe what she witnesses through the Crisis will shock some sense into her. Especially since Lex's role has yet to be revealed. (Or maybe she'll go full villain and Lex will seduce her to the dark side.)
And damn, Kara's mom!
In previews this week I kept hearing Kara's line "We may lose the planet, but we can still save the people" and really hoped it was somehow taken out of context. Alas, no.
I can suspend disbelief to accept a mutliverse, superpowered humans and aliens, superadvanced technology being whipped up out of thin air on a regular basis by Lena, Brainy, Cisco, etc. I can even, with difficulty, look the other way when Ollie and Mia, fighting hundreds of shadow demons, mysteriously never run out of arrows until it's dramatically necessary.
But I cannot accept that 3 billion people were evacuated from Earth-38 in a matter of hours, or that Earth-1 will be able to absorb an estimated overnight increase of 39% in its population, from around 7.7 billion to 10.7 billion.
The surviving Earths should be merged by the towers, likely resulting in widespread psychosis as dopplegangers from Earths -1 and -38 merged into a single entity with two distinct sets of memories. That could be written to sort itself out over time with the Earth-38 memories gradually fading.
But if you just dump an additional 3 billion people onto Earth-1, that problem doesn't fade away, it only gets worse. Any dopplegangers existing within that 3 billion may both still be alive and now competing for the same residence, job, spouse, etc.
All that aside, I enjoyed Crisis Part One. Michael Keaton Batman's Earth-89, Burt Ward's Earth-66. Baby Jonathan in a pod, launched by parents echoing Marlon Brando's dialogue from the first Chris Reeve Superman movie...
On exchange kind of stuck with me as possibly not making sense with the information we'd been given: Batwoman pulls off her mask and wig and says "You can call me Kate." Ollie replies "Yeah, that makes sense." Is this something I'm forgetting from last year's crossover? Did Ollie meet Kate but not know she was Batwoman?
I can suspend disbelief to accept a mutliverse, superpowered humans and aliens, superadvanced technology being whipped up out of thin air on a regular basis by Lena, Brainy, Cisco, etc. I can even, with difficulty, look the other way when Ollie and Mia, fighting hundreds of shadow demons, mysteriously never run out of arrows until it's dramatically necessary.But I cannot accept that 3 billion people were evacuated from Earth-38 in a matter of hours, or that Earth-1 will be able to absorb an estimated overnight increase of 39% in its population, from around 7.7 billion to 10.7 billion.
The surviving Earths should be merged by the towers, likely resulting in widespread psychosis as dopplegangers from Earths -1 and -38 merged into a single entity with two distinct sets of memories. That could be written to sort itself out over time with the Earth-38 memories gradually fading.
But if you just dump an additional 3 billion people onto Earth-1, that problem doesn't fade away, it only gets worse. Any dopplegangers existing within that 3 billion may both still be alive and now competing for the same residence, job, spouse, etc.
I can accept the evacuation, because it's been well-established and they actively built upon the fact that other large scale movements of people have been made possible already.
The crush of 3 billion refugees upon Earth 1 is another issue but we may in fact see that as an actual problem to be addressed. Or, as you say, once the Crisis is over, everyone will be merged together (as indeed it was in the original Crisis) and there will not be a population/resource issue.
I don't think anything in the episode suggested the arrival of the refugees would be an easy thing to handle. They were simply trying to find a way to save as many lives as they could in the immediate moment, and then figure out how to handle the human burden after, you know, they figure out how to stop the entire multiverse from disintegrating. I think their priorities are in the correct order.
If the extra refugees remain, and they DO address the problem in even a small way, they will be miles ahead of say, Avengers: Endgame, which barely touched upon the effect the loss of 3.5 billion people outside of showing a memorial and a few desolated buildings---no mention of police states, no anarchic rebellions, etc. And then even less touched upon the effect of the return of those Decimated. I did not see Spider-Man Far From Home, but from what I've seen it seems like people just returned mostly to business as usual with minor side effects---which is ridiculous. Blipped tyrants suddenly coming to grips with losing their power and starting new revolutions and wars for power, mental health crises caused by people returning like Tom Hanks in Castaway and discovering their family/loved ones have moved on without them, a planet that in five years has adjusted to the population loss and probably is figuring out a better distribution of resources only to suddenly again have twice as many people to feed. And yet few fans complain because it's the MCU and according to fans, the MCU can do no wrong.
If the MCU can get away with utter f#~+ery with playing massive population numbers with a handwave from the fans, then the Arrowverse certainly damn well can. I recognize this doesn't actually resolve any of your issues, I'm just noting that the CW isn't really held to the same high bar as Marvel Studios is, and yet if the "high bar" can get away with that kind of nonsense, I would not set your expectations too high for the CW. And at the same time, if the series does address the potential long term after effects (we are only one episode of five in), they will actually have accomplished something the "high bar" studio did not. TL;DR be patient, and remember what channel you're watching.
On exchange kind of stuck with me as possibly not making sense with the information we'd been given: Batwoman pulls off her mask and wig and says "You can call me Kate." Ollie replies "Yeah, that makes sense." Is this something I'm forgetting from last year's crossover? Did Ollie meet Kate but not know she was Batwoman?
Ollie knew who Batwoman was--he is the one who pulled her into Elseworlds--but he did not know Kate was Batwoman at that time. He knows who Kate Kane is because Kate Kane is a publicly known member of a rich family who is related to Bruce Wayne and her return to Gotham was somewhat public (especially as her first appearance was at a major public event thrown by her dad and stepmother). Moreover on a broad scale it probably makes sense that the Queens were at least somewhat acquainted with the Waynes and the Kanes and the Hamiltons, as they were all in the same sort of business and occupying the same social strata (it's even plausible she and Oliver met when they were much younger). As for knowing who Batwoman is, it was established in Elseworlds if not prior that he keeps some degree of tabs on what other costumed vigilantes are out there. That is how he knew about Batwoman's existence to begin wit. He also had probably looked into the goings-on in Gotham enough to notice Kate had returned home recently. When she reveals who she is, he can quickly put 1+1 together and recognize she returned to Gotham shortly before Batwoman made her appearance.
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I'm okay with "saving the people" and moving 3B people to Earth-1 as I'm a) expecting that by the end of Crisis some form or merging will happen and b) if it doesn't, then it's a long term repercussion which will be addressed (hopefully more than only a brief mention).
What I'm curious about is what about characters from the future of Supergirl's Earth like Mon-El, Winn, etc? Presumably they don't exist in the future of Earth-1, so if there is no merging, all characters from Supergirl's Earth's future are also effectively dead, Brainy has no where to return to, etc.
I can accept the evacuation, because it's been well-established and they actively built upon the fact that other large scale movements of people have been made possible already.
On even a fraction of this scale, though? It was mentioned that every alien on Earth-38 came in a ship, but presumably those ships were either small ships carrying small numbers of aliens, or in a few cases large ships carrying large numbers of aliens -- it doesn't seem likely that 5 million aliens on Earth-38 would have sufficient spare room in their spacecrafts to evacuate 600 times their number of humans.
I don't think anything in the episode suggested the arrival of the refugees would be an easy thing to handle. They were simply trying to find a way to save as many lives as they could in the immediate moment, and then figure out how to handle the human burden after, you know, they figure out how to stop the entire multiverse from disintegrating. I think their priorities are in the correct order.
No argument. My issue here is with the writers, not the characters. Which, okay, is still the writers. I mean my issue is with the writers scripting the evacuation at all, not for how they then have the characters deal with it.
Ollie knew who Batwoman was--he is the one who pulled her into Elseworlds--but he did not know Kate was Batwoman at that time.
So, that's handled. I forget stuff.
I'm a) expecting that by the end of Crisis some form or merging will happen and b) if it doesn't, then it's a long term repercussion which will be addressed (hopefully more than only a brief mention).
What I'm curious about is what about characters from the future of Supergirl's Earth like Mon-El, Winn, etc? Presumably they don't exist in the future of Earth-1, so if there is no merging, all characters from Supergirl's Earth's future are also effectively dead, Brainy has no where to return to, etc.
If they were going to merge people, that had been better done as the two universes came together, with everyone (except CW heroes) still on their home planet. Evacuating 3B people and then merging them as an afterthought feels weirder, somehow.
Good point about the future. But assuming they do merge doppelgangers after the fact, perhaps we can say that the some of the seeds of Earth-38's far future get preserved in the merger (and some of the seeds of Earth-1's far future are lost or altered) as a consequence of their quantum states collapsing in favor of "38" rather than "1".
So Routh Supes is BOTH Kingdom Come Supes (the way his friends died) AND Superman Returns Supes (has a son named Jason). Everybody wins!
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So Routh Supes is BOTH Kingdom Come Supes (the way his friends died) AND Superman Returns Supes (has a son named Jason). Everybody wins!
As well as the Chris Reeve Superman (tar-laced Kryptonite splits him into good Clark and bad Superman, forcing a fight between them) into two and fought himself in Superman III) and the gray-templed Kal-L of Earth-2, who married Lois and became editor of the Daily Planet.
Batman's description of Clark as a "strange visitor from another planet, with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men" ties in the George Reeves TV series and Bud Collyer radio series and cartoons as well.
I think I'll just keep posting on COIE here than in each different CW show thread. It feels like a lot and yet very little happened this episode. Did love seeing Tom Welling again. Kevin Conroy as old angry Bats was also very cool (understand some may have mixed feelings on how that turned out). I need to rewatch the ep as I was making cookies and somehow some crucial moment in the plot was always happening during a crucial moment of the cookie making.
(But the cookies were good.)
I have only watched sporadically and always Mia to be extremely annoying. I was really hoping her role in Crisis would turn me around.
It has not. (So far.)
I was done with the Arrowverse doing b*@~@#$~ regarding the Lazarus Pit four years ago. Sarah should have tied up Mia rather than go along with her. (And on the mention of "but he's not your dad," she should have punched the snotty little b#@~%, not caved. Quentin never would have stood for this s#+*.) Sure at least she had the sense to get Constantine, but of course something was going to go wrong.
Still liking all the little universes and cameos. While imagining all the various Earths we could get glimpses of, I suddenly thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if we saw for just a minute, a bit of the Amalgam Universe?"
And of course the logical side of my brain interjected, "Disney and Warner would never agree to even just a quick blip of that. Or at least Disney would demand a ridiculous amount of money, which the CW doesn't have..."
But the insistent, idealist side of my brain persisted and decided to raise the ante, tricking me into paying attention by beginning with a factual statement.
"The Arrowverse is overseen by Marc Guggenheim, who is married to Tara Butters...
....And Tara Butters was co-producer of Agent Carter.... So...."
And that's when the idealist part of my brain joined forces with the obsessive part of my brain to give me a full blown concept:
AMALGAM 1945: BOMBSHELLS + AGENT CARTER
Complete with detailed mental image of Hayley Atwell as "Agent Amazon" (spins from her army uniform into star spangled battle armor with a white eagle across the breast) and Bridget Regan as "Dark Widow" (a Batwoman-like costume with the Black Widow red hourglass on its side so it vaguely parallels the bat symbol). Coming with their own villain, "Doctor Masque" (Doctor Cyber + Madam Masque), portrayed by Wynn Everett.
And now I want this SOOOO BAD.
And it will NEVER EVER EVER EVER BE.
Help. *sobs*
But it would be so fun if they could do it.
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AMALGAM 1945: BOMBSHELLS + AGENT CARTER
I'd subscribe to that comic, see the movie and buy the TV series on DVD.
In any case I'm glad I was right about Routh being Kingdom Come Superman even if they added some stuff. It still proved he's the OG Superman for this cross over. (Which is a nice call back to the original comic in my view)
I also watched the Black Lightning thing...and I was less than impressed but that's okay.
Mostly I was happy to see Buff Luke on Hour 2 and while I haven't see Hour 3, I'm waiting very much to see MORE cross over cameos.
Also to add, while I am with DQ about Mia not understanding the risks and still doing it, I think at least Sara being around MIGHT mitigate things.
Hour 3:
Good Flash death. Lots of us saw a bait and switch coming for Barry, but it was still very well handled.
On some of the Earth numbering...I'm sure our heroes were told in an earlier crossover that there were nominally 52 Earths, and that Earth X was a 53rd Earth no one liked to talk about. Over the past three hours we've seen Earths -66, -73, -75, -89, -90, -96, -97, -99, -167, -203, -666...I get why most of the "cameo" Earths were assigned those numbers, but it's a shame they had to break in-show continuity to do it.
Stargirl looks good.
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As for the # of Earths which exist - seems reasonable to me that the heroes thought there were only 52 Earths (possibly from some catalog that Breacher/Gypsy's organization had) but that the Monitor and others knew there were "infinite" Earths, including many beyond the 52 some groups knew about.
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The thing I am liking the most is the character development between Supergirl and Batwoman. They are becoming friends and allies very quickly. I hope it keeps up.
Yeah, I think the 52 Earths were the ones they were immediately aware of. But we are up to literally, well, infinite earths. Except of course they are all gone now. (Which definitely means the extra 3 billion people sent to Earth 1 don't matter. I assume when a singular world is brought back it will be a merging.)
REALLY bummed, especially since the actress has guest starred in Supergirl, to not see a glimpse of a certain star spangled superheroine from Earth-77. (And I blinked and missed Huntress on Earth 203). But who knows what we'll see in January.
I agree, Saint Bernard, Kara and Kate's friendship has been a key thing I've enjoyed through this (and I like that it does not feel like just a distaff counterpart version of the friendship between Bruce and Clark--it has its own dynamic and chemistry). I loved that Kate was able to talk Kara down. And I was amazed when Kara told Kate to keep the Kryptonite... she would not have done that a couple years ago. Kara's growth was reflected well here. I just hope some of that is taken back to their respective shows.
Liked seeing Black Lightning brought in. (And that tie in episode was harsh, but well done. I assume Lightning is going to show up in Crisis in her energy form later.)
Does Diggle know (of) Jefferson Pierce? The way he said "by any means necessary" with a nod to Jeff seemed to suggest he knew he was quoting him.
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And I was amazed when Kara told Kate to keep the Kryptonite... she would not have done that a couple years ago. Kara's growth was reflected well here.
I was kind of expecting Kara to comment something along the lines of Kate keeping it because A) she's not the only Kryptonian out there, and some of them (like the version of Kara from Earth X!) aren't terribly nice, or B) 'sometimes I get mind-controlled or whatever, so it might be good to have that as a plan B.' :)
Bummed at the death of the Flash. Playing his old theme at that moment hit the heartstrings just right.
Enjoyed the brief visit to 666.
They are really committed to showing every single DC show ever done in this aren't they. It's dark and heavy but I am loving it.
and then Lex
ಠ_ಠ
g++ d!&n it Lex
worst of all....we now wait till mid January for part 4
And I was amazed when Kara told Kate to keep the Kryptonite... she would not have done that a couple years ago. Kara's growth was reflected well here.I was kind of expecting Kara to comment something along the lines of Kate keeping it because A) she's not the only Kryptonian out there, and some of them (like the version of Kara from Earth X!) aren't terribly nice, or B) 'sometimes I get mind-controlled or whatever, so it might be good to have that as a plan B.' :)
While all the things you say are logical and true, my point has to do with the fact that Kara has utterly FREAKED OUT about at least twice in the past when she has learned that people she generally likes and trusts (IIRC J'onn and still-good-at-the-time Lena) have kept a stockpile of Kryptonite on hand, and yelled at them for "betraying" her, even though their reasons were the same as the ones you describe above. (She has also been lectured at length about how irrational she was being, but she still remained more or less upset about it.)
This is why I noted I was amazed -- because Kara's response was markedly different this time, and yet it wasn't out of character. The way she responded was she was surprised, and a little upset, but then thought about it and agreed Kate should keep it.
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And I was amazed when Kara told Kate to keep the Kryptonite... she would not have done that a couple years ago. Kara's growth was reflected well here.I was kind of expecting Kara to comment something along the lines of Kate keeping it because A) she's not the only Kryptonian out there, and some of them (like the version of Kara from Earth X!) aren't terribly nice, or B) 'sometimes I get mind-controlled or whatever, so it might be good to have that as a plan B.' :)
While all the things you say are logical and true, my point has to do with the fact that Kara has utterly FREAKED OUT about at least twice in the past when she has learned that people she generally likes and trusts (IIRC J'onn and still-good-at-the-time Lena) have kept a stockpile of Kryptonite on hand, and yelled at them for "betraying" her, even though their reasons were the same as the ones you describe above. (She has also been lectured at length about how irrational she was being, but she still remained more or less upset about it.)
This is why I noted I was amazed -- because Kara's response was markedly different this time, and yet it wasn't out of character. The way she responded was she was surprised, and a little upset, but then thought about it and agreed Kate should keep it.
I wonder if her more reasonable reaction this time around in part had to do with the fact that the kryptonite Kate had was "safely" on a different Earth. If so, and if Crisis merges all of the shows onto Earth-1, I wonder if Kara will be a bit less comfortable with her decision if she's on the same Earth. True, her Earth was just destroyed and half the population had fled to Earth-1, but that might not have sunk in yet.
Still not convinced they're going to merge all the shows onto the same earth...
Still not convinced they're going to merge all the shows onto the same earth...
It does seems slightly less certain now that they've destroyed all Earths, necessitating a time travel solution to bring anything back. If they prevent the rise of the Anti-Monitor from ever occurring, then the Multiverse wouldn't have been destroyed.
That would be a huge slap in the face to comics fans, not to mention creating the usual time paradox/retroactive continuity headaches.
IIRC, in the original COIE champions from five Earths won, and theirs were the Earths that were merged. While in that case it's because those Earths still survived, I wonder if something will happen where the Paragons' Earths will be the ones that survive and get merged into one.
Because Lex wrote out Super-Routh, that won't include Earth-96. It will include Earth-1 and Earth-38. I missed what Earth Ryan Choi is from (1?). And I have a feeling Jennifer Pierce from Black Lightning will show up in her energy form and be a deus ex machina in that respect--I think what happened to her is her three versions of herself merged into one, so she will be the catalyst for the merging. And because it will involve her, she will possibly merge in her Earth or at least her family.
Of course I could be wrong, but I think the purposes of this is from here on out, the CW shows will take place in the same universe from now on. I can't think of any other reason why they would decide to do this plot. The whole point of COIE is to eliminate multiversal confusion. (At least until it's time for Zero Hour or Infinity Crisis or what have you. And they will of course save the time travel shenanigans for Zero Hour, where it then won't be a slap in the face of comics fans.)
The big question I have is "What dose the Spectre want with Ollie?"
could we get Ollie as Spectre vs. Anti-Monitor.
Heck if there is anyone in this so far that could use the Book of Destiny to full potential It's the Spectre
I kind of hope CW never does Zero Hour. Never really liked that one, what with both the past and future self-destructing toward the present, and the editorial decision to change the intended villain halfway through because of a leak.
Involving "future" characters would be a tidy way to bring in the Legion, but for the past they might need to recycle material from Legends -- Vandal Savage, the Hawks, the Justice Society, Jonah Hex (at least one version of whom was erased with Earth-18.)
Unsure what the Spectre wants with Ollie. The only thing I can come up with is a replacement host, and I don't know how I'd feel about that. Ollie's spent seven years trying (not always successfully) to shrug off anger issues and isolationist tendencies, and now you want him to host the solitary spirit of wrath? (I mean, I suppose it's a way to turn a liability into a strength, but...)
One of my strongest memories of The Spectre from the comics is this image of him holding Earths -1 and -2 apart with just his own strength. Seeing something like that in CW-Crisis, maybe with Earths -1 and -38, would have been awesome.
I think Jim Corrigan said something about a "spark" to Olliver when they were in Purgatory. I wonder if the Spectre somehow ignites a spark to begin everything anew. "Let there be light, " and there is a new singular universe.
I continue to hate how the CW makes Superman a perpetual chump, but maybe once he gets his own show he won't be so lame.
I think Jim Corrigan said something about a "spark" to Olliver when they were in Purgatory. I wonder if the Spectre somehow ignites a spark to begin everything anew. "Let there be light, " and there is a new singular universe.
And since Ollie effectively started the "Arrowverse" on CW...yeah, that makes thematic sense.
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IIRC, in the original COIE champions from five Earths won, and theirs were the Earths that were merged. While in that case it's because those Earths still survived, I wonder if something will happen where the Paragons' Earths will be the ones that survive and get merged into one.
Or perhaps the seven Paragons (or, the surviving Paragons, dun-dun-dun-DUN!) will allow seven (or less...) worlds to survive, without any sort of merger.
'Cause I really do expect Kara's Earth to come back, somehow, at the very least, if not necessarily all of the destroyed Earths. At least *partially* restoring the multiverse seems like a solid condition for a 'win' here, and the choice to re-empower Cisco as Vibe, whose primary purpose is to ease popping easily between worlds of the multiverse for these sorts of crossovers, suggests to me that they intend to continue using him in that fashion in the future.
A merged earth would open the way for a lot more Supergirl and Batwoman teamups though. Would certainly like to see a little more of that
I'm open for Batwoman and Supergirl team ups...but I don't think we need to merge Earths for that to happen.
I do think Ollie WILL do a whole "Big Bang 2" thing as the Spectre.
So...there is a new multiverse, but characters on Earth Prime evidently believe there isn't. Are the universes now isolated from each other in ways they weren't before?