Supergirl


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There is no in World reason for removing Waller and Deadshot. Just the higher ups at Warner putting some characters on a black List.
But I am not certain Warner itself understands their reasoning for blocking some characters.
Do they think we will get confused if there is a different Waller or Deadshot in the movies?
But two Supermen are not a problem?
I would love to watch the higher ups at Warner to explain the reasons for this stuff^^

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Yeah, unfortunately, they killed off Waller in the Arrowverse and wrote out Deadshot (or killed him? I don't remember) because for some reason they wanted to "appropriate" the characters only for the Suicide Squad movie. I didn't like their take on Waller that much, but it was still a stupid reason to remove her.

While there still could be an alive Waller on Earth-38, I believe the restriction of not using Suicide Squad characters in the TV shows still applies, unfortunately. This Colonel character feels very much like a "not-Amanda Waller" expy (and not just because she's a black lady).

And as lowfyr notes, it makes zero sense whatsoever, especially since we are have multiple Flashes, multiple Supermans, and are about to have a movie version of Black Canary, etc. etc.


Well whatever the outcome, it's clear we won't be getting Amanda Waller any time soon. Or Suicide Squad. Mostly because it seems like the whole point is more about aliens and stuff, than it is about regular guys without powers that might be bad guys.

Scarab Sages

Say what...?!?

‘Supergirl’ Will Be Menaced By Jon Cryer As Lex Luthor

While I enjoyed his comedic turn in Two and a Half Men, I'm not sure about this casting. It's....interesting, but not enought to get me watching the show again.


Yeah not sure I agree with this casting, but I guess since he was Lex Luthor's nephew in the worst Superman movie of the Reeve era...they felt like he was due.


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Wow. Jesse Eisenberg wasn't bad enough?

Aaron Paul would have been an interesting Lex. ("Kryptonite, b#@#~!")

Or Cillian Murphy. Even Joseph Gordon-Levitt. But Jon Cryer? *I* want to cry.


I think it could work. And now he has the hair cut for it and would not need to shave it for the role^^


Damon,

Yeah I'm not sure I see it but eh. One miscasting versus the fact they've done pretty decently with anti-hero Manchester Black.

I mean especially after last episode.


Earth-90? 90?!?

Earth-X, while I appreciate the callback to pre-Crisis labeling, already broke the 52-universe count in the DC Multiverse. Now they've nearly doubled its size...why?


Damon,

Because I guess they couldn't get to Earth-1999999. ;)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Since Earth-90 looked like it was on it's last few seconds of existence, perhaps the Earths with numbers higher than 52 are simply thought to not exist since they've been destroyed?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I'm willing to be game about the Lex Luthor casting. I'm more interested in seeing how he and Lena interact when the character does appear. Will he drag her to his level or will his example turn her around from her slow descent into evil mad science?

I think Joel may be on to something with why it's outside the 52 Earths.

I'm confused by Mrs. Agent Liberty. She seemed to be horrified by her husband's actions and would have been killed because of them and then was rescued by Supergirl. So why chant for him...?

I'm intrigued by the ultimatum on Supergirl's identity. For a minute I was like, well, why can't Kara just lose the identity? Most of the people she's close to are exposed to danger anyway, would it REALLY be a problem? And I'm tired of her utterly unsustainable "normal" life with bad writing about how journalism works anyway.

And then I realized if she reveals she is Kara Danvers, who has told many people her cousin is Clark Kent, and I believe it is also public knowledge Supergirl and Superman are cousins, then she would end up revealing...


DQ,

That last bit might be part of it, the other part is I think she's worried about unavoidable risk versus acceptable consciousness risk.

But I do think Joel might be on to something, as well. Maybe the Monitors are like "Look there are only 52 of us, and like a bazillion realities, so how about we start cutting them down to a more manageable size?"

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I also saw an article about the Earth-90 scene suggest it was Earth-90 because it's the Earth where the 90s TV show version of the Flash is from. That's a meta Easter Egg, and there still should be an in-show reason fr there being an Earth-90, but a fun reason it was Earth-90 rather than say Earth-76.


Joel,

Maybe but I like the "Monitors got sick of watching bazillion alternate worlds and decided to cut them down" more than the meta Easter Egg.


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I could readily believe that the Monitors(s) decided there were too damn many Earths and decided on severe cutbacks. It's not the plot of the original Crisis On Infinite Earths, but that's neither here nor there.

But both current comics and the CW-verse established a total of 52 universes (before breaking that with Earth-X). And...

Sigh. WTF am I talking about? DC's Multiverse of 52 universes plus a handful of added dimensions went out the window when they introduced the Dark Multiverse. And again with the Still/Strong/Sage Forces. As usual for DC, the number of universes/realms/dimensions is whatever the next writer wants it to be.


Damon,

That may be but I think maybe the writers for THESE shows don't want to suffer from a Marvel Multiverse apologies. I mean that's why we got so many other Spider-men for a while...


"...don't want to suffer from a Marvel Multiverse apologies?"

I -- huh?

Liberty's Edge

Jumping in with a question ...

I’ve never watched this show (or any of the CW DC shows really) but it looks pretty good, so lately I’ve been intrigued.

One thing I sometimes see pop up on YouTube when I do searches for clips of the show are clips of Supergirl (either as Supergirl, or as Kara) making out with another girl. In this show, is she bisexual?

Just curious, since I don’t recall that being part of Supergirl’s character in the past ...


Not sure what you've seen. Supergirl's adoptive sister Alex had a serious on-screen lesbian relationship for a while. I don't recall any indication Kara has ever had that kind of interest in women.

I am (foolishly) apt to take notice -- perhaps even offense -- when a movie or TV show goes off book regarding a character's origin, powers, etc. But since sexual orientation one way or the other isn't a defining part of Supergirl's comics history, I guess it's possible something like that may have happened on the show and I thought nothing of it.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I believe Kara is straight (she's dated Jimmy Olsen and Mon El among a couple other dudes, and has not appeared to have shown major sexual interest in a woman, and didn't go "me too!" when her sister Alex came out). She has not made out with a girl on the show.

There are a lot of fans who "ship" Kara with various female characters, especially with Lena Luthor (I believe it is called "SuperCorp") and I would not be surprised if enterprising fans edited video to make it look like Kara was making out with her (or others). I will say the actresses do have terrific chemistry (whether platonic or romantic) and some of the early scenes with the two of them definitely could be read as Lena flirting with Kara (I thought Lena was flirting)--but apparently that was unintentional and they've toned that back.

Marc, the show is fun overall but has many some ups and downs, and the plotting is frequently full of holes, especially once it was taken over by the CW in season 2. The show's strongest feature easily is Melissa Benoist's portrayal of Supergirl--she is a good actress and plays the role superlatively. Her sister Alex is also awesome and performed fantastically by Chyler Leigh, and their relationship is the highlight of the show for me personally. The show has had some interesting villains, although the ones I like best have been some more of the one-off villains than the story-arc villains (e.g., I found Psi and Livewire more interesting than Reign and her puppetmasters, etc.).

One thing you should be aware of is the show takes on a lot of political issues, and often very anviliciously, which is a turnoff to some. I am fine with it (even if the writing of the issues is inelegant at times to say the least). This is especially the case this season, where they're using interplanetary aliens dwelling on earth and prejudice against them as an on-the-nose metaphor for current immigration issues.

I would recommend trying the show out (and bear in mind the show shifts tonally a bit from Season 1 to 2 as it changes networks), unless the above would turn you off.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah I agree with DeathQuaker that its pretty good but also has major ups and downs. Last year I thought it was the weakest of the CW shows, while this year I would say it's the strongest.

Honestly If you are interested you could probably get away with just watching this season, and if you like it go back to earlier seasons.


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I also agree that I wasn't a huge fan of Season 3. Season 4 and the previous seasons have, at least, had some good interactions.

I also agree the best thing about this show is clearly Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh. They are by far, way better actresses than some others in CW shows I've seen, even if the material they get isn't always...great.

Damon,

I mean I love Marvel, but honestly they have like almost a BAZILLION different alternate realities unlike DC previous 52 before Convergence and stuff. So for me, what I enjoy about CW DCU, is that up until recently, I thought having a limit of 52 universes (while arbitrary) made me feel more connected to a specific universe.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

I also agree that I wasn't a huge fan of Season 3. Season 4 and the previous seasons have, at least, had some good interactions.

I also agree the best thing about this show is clearly Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh. They are by far, way better actresses than some others in CW shows I've seen, even if the material they get isn't always...great.

Damon,

I mean I love Marvel, but honestly they have like almost a BAZILLION different alternate realities unlike DC previous 52 before Convergence and stuff. So for me, what I enjoy about CW DCU, is that up until recently, I thought having a limit of 52 universes (while arbitrary) made me feel more connected to a specific universe.

Of course 52 was still a relatively recent limit on DC and one not handled entirely cleanly. It dated roughly from Final Crisis, right? Or Infinite Crisis, one of those. Before that it was actually an infinite number, except for when it was supposed to be only one, but they kept bringing in other ones anyway with various excuses.

Basically Marvel hasn't had to clean house as drastically because they weren't as bad. :)


thejeff,

You're forgetting about Secret Wars 2015...


Thomas Seitz wrote:

thejeff,

You're forgetting about Secret Wars 2015...

I'm not even sure what that did to the Marvel Multiverse. Wiped it out and restarted it just as muddled as it was, as far as I can tell.

It merged the original with the Ultimate line (and may have brought a few others into the main universe?), but other than that, it didn't really change that much.


I grew up as an equal opportunity fan, with no strong preference for DC or Marvel over the other; both companies had many titles and characters I enjoyed. I dumped Marvel right around the time their Ultimate universe seemed to have effectively replaced 616 as the "main" universe. All I've known of Marvel since then is what I read online or see in the Diamond PREVIEWS monthly solicitations.

So as far as I recall, as of that point I was only aware of Earth-616 (OG Marvel), -712 (OG Squadron Supreme) and -1610 (Ultimate.) Obviously that numbering implied hundreds of undocumented universes, but since they were completely ignored, Marvel felt like it had fewer universes than DC.

Secret Wars 2015 sounded to me like an abomination. I didn't read it, but read some about it. I've blocked most of it out; hysterical amnesia. One of the more egregious things, I thought, was to form a new Squadron Supreme on Earth-616 out of lone survivors from multiple destroyed universes: Doctor Spectrum of Earth-4290001.

And various things I read about afterword gave me the same impression as thejeff: destruction on an unimaginable scale that ended up as a f'ed up mishmash. Multiple Spidermen, multiple Wolverines and Jean Greys, Gwenpool. Heironymus Bosch meets M.C. Escher, on acid.

Meanwhile, DC claimed "infinite" Earths in '85 and certainly showcased more than Marvel did, but never got above four digits numbering them. But DC's catalog of the multiverse was haphazard at best, using numbers, letters or simple descriptions for alternate universes. And then Hypertime and Convergence between them threw everything into a cocked hat.

I liked having 52 semi-stable universes. Some DC writers still pretend we do; Flash just met with the Flashes of 52 Worlds at the House of Heroes.

Sovereign Court

DeathQuaker wrote:

I believe Kara is straight (she's dated Jimmy Olsen and Mon El among a couple other dudes, and has not appeared to have shown major sexual interest in a woman, and didn't go "me too!" when her sister Alex came out). She has not made out with a girl on the show.

There are a lot of fans who "ship" Kara with various female characters, especially with Lena Luthor (I believe it is called "SuperCorp") and I would not be surprised if enterprising fans edited video to make it look like Kara was making out with her (or others). I will say the actresses do have terrific chemistry (whether platonic or romantic) and some of the early scenes with the two of them definitely could be read as Lena flirting with Kara (I thought Lena was flirting)--but apparently that was unintentional and they've toned that back.

Marc, the show is fun overall but has many some ups and downs, and the plotting is frequently full of holes, especially once it was taken over by the CW in season 2. The show's strongest feature easily is Melissa Benoist's portrayal of Supergirl--she is a good actress and plays the role superlatively. Her sister Alex is also awesome and performed fantastically by Chyler Leigh, and their relationship is the highlight of the show for me personally. The show has had some interesting villains, although the ones I like best have been some more of the one-off villains than the story-arc villains (e.g., I found Psi and Livewire more interesting than Reign and her puppetmasters, etc.).

One thing you should be aware of is the show takes on a lot of political issues, and often very anviliciously, which is a turnoff to some. I am fine with it (even if the writing of the issues is inelegant at times to say the least). This is especially the case this season, where they're using interplanetary aliens dwelling on earth and prejudice against them as an on-the-nose metaphor for current immigration issues.

I would recommend trying the show out (and bear in mind the show shifts tonally a bit from Season 1 to 2 as...

Honestly I stopped watching after episode one this season. Up until this season, I thought the show addressed stuff mostly well, a little anviliciously but still well and not too on the nose. I just couldn't keep watching.


Hama wrote:
Honestly I stopped watching after episode one this season. Up until this season, I thought the show addressed stuff mostly well, a little anviliciously but still well and not too on the nose. I just couldn't keep watching.

Yep, me too. Actually, I got burned out about last season but some how pushed my way through... though with as many fights as they had against the world ender... I'm not 100% sure I saw the finale or not.

I find the politics way too heavy handed and I literally can not STAND Alex. Season 1 was my favorite CW season for any of their shows... It was so upbeat and happy. Origin was nearly non-existent. She had been on earth long enough to know her powers and she was just eager to help because she just wanted to help people... I loved it. And I DO agree that Melissa Benoit just sells it. Perfect casting! But by season 4... the premire came... and went... and then the next 8 episodes and I just haven't had a desire to see any of them.

At least not till the crossover...

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:

Jumping in with a question ...

I’ve never watched this show (or any of the CW DC shows really) but it looks pretty good, so lately I’ve been intrigued.

One thing I sometimes see pop up on YouTube when I do searches for clips of the show are clips of Supergirl (either as Supergirl, or as Kara) making out with another girl. In this show, is she bisexual?

Just curious, since I don’t recall that being part of Supergirl’s character in the past ...

DeathQuaker wrote:

I believe Kara is straight (she's dated Jimmy Olsen and Mon El among a couple other dudes, and has not appeared to have shown major sexual interest in a woman, and didn't go "me too!" when her sister Alex came out). She has not made out with a girl on the show.

There are a lot of fans who "ship" Kara with various female characters, especially with Lena Luthor (I believe it is called "SuperCorp") and I would not be surprised if enterprising fans edited video to make it look like Kara was making out with her (or others). I will say the actresses do have terrific chemistry (whether platonic or romantic) and some of the early scenes with the two of them definitely could be read as Lena flirting with Kara (I thought Lena was flirting)--but apparently that was unintentional and they've toned that back.

That's probably it. I do believe Kara and Lena Luthor are the ones I see pop up on YouTube. Like I said, I've never actually seen an episode, but some of those clips make it seem like they were a couple.

Sovereign Court

phantom1592 wrote:
Hama wrote:
Honestly I stopped watching after episode one this season. Up until this season, I thought the show addressed stuff mostly well, a little anviliciously but still well and not too on the nose. I just couldn't keep watching.

Yep, me too. Actually, I got burned out about last season but some how pushed my way through... though with as many fights as they had against the world ender... I'm not 100% sure I saw the finale or not.

I find the politics way too heavy handed and I literally can not STAND Alex. Season 1 was my favorite CW season for any of their shows... It was so upbeat and happy. Origin was nearly non-existent. She had been on earth long enough to know her powers and she was just eager to help because she just wanted to help people... I loved it. And I DO agree that Melissa Benoit just sells it. Perfect casting! But by season 4... the premire came... and went... and then the next 8 episodes and I just haven't had a desire to see any of them.

At least not till the crossover...

And since the crosssover is the elseworlds story, no neeed to watch the previous episodes.


Hama,

Not sure THAT'S accurate. I mean we still need to know if Kara might need help from Mon-el..who isn't there.

Thejeff,

It didn't but again the Marvel Multiverse is so...vast and huge it's almost harder to quantify than DC's 52.

And yes Damon, I liked The current setup allowing Barry Allen to meet with his 52 counterparts in the House of Heroes.


Thomas Seitz wrote:


Thejeff,

It didn't but again the Marvel Multiverse is so...vast and huge it's almost harder to quantify than DC's 52.

Only because DC cut itself down to that 52 a decade or so ago. And hasn't really been very good at sticking to it since.

It's essentially inevitable in any kind of sprawling decades long enterprise like this. Alternate universe stories are cool. Alternate timelines are cool. Characters meeting other versions of themselves is cool. Do that even occasionally over dozens of titles for decades and you get a sprawling mess. Strictly limit it and define all the variants you can use and you've limited cool stories out of existence, so those limits get broken.

Most of the time it doesn't really matter. There's no need to quantify it. The only parallel worlds that matter are the ones in this particular story. Of course, once you do quantify it (there are 52 universes!), there's the strong temptation to do a story with all of them interacting and then you've locked them all down and ruled out all sorts of other interesting possibilities for mostly throw away cameos.

I'm actually happier with the infinite multiverses. They make more sense theoretically. There's no need to explain why there is a specific number and invoke Monitors keeping a stack of them or whatever. You've always got more when you need them, and you don't have to worry about which you've used before.


thejeff,

Infinite multiverses makes sense sure. But much like trying to make sense of time travel and it's effects on storytelling, it's a real headache.


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CRI-SIS!
CRI-SIS!
CRI-SIS!


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I think I know what Olie traded.

Spoiler:
Five years.

Worlds will live. Worlds will die. And nothing will be the same again.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

I think I know what Ollie traded.

** spoiler omitted **

I don't know...if I understand what you mean, that seems like a very uneven trade for

Spoiler:
the lives of two superheroes.
Not sure why the Monitor would go for it. I have no better suggestion though.

My first thought -- for about a half second -- was that Ollie offered his life for

Spoiler:
Barry's and Kara's. But it doesn't seem like a 1 for 2 trade maintains the "balance" the Monitor insisted on.


Spoiler:
The Monitor needs Barry and Kara to fight in the Crisis. So he needs to save them. But this change requires something bad to happen to balance it out. Moving the Crisis up from the end of Season 10 to mid-season 9 is the balance.

It also means they can do the story before interest fades and the shows are cancelled. Plus Arrow will be in Season 8, how much longer can it go on?

If it were me, I would:
1) Instead of a single 3-5 hour crossover, I would have it be a 45 hour interwoven story. All five shows (Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, and Black Lightning) take part.
Stephen Amell, Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Cress Williams, and Caity Lotz remain (almost) exclusively on their own shows. But their supporting casts can bounce between shows for the first 8 weeks of filming.
The ninth episodes sees all the characters come together for the big event. Which ends the universes merged, and all but Black Lightning being cancelled.

Then in January, the new DCW line up launches with a 13 episode season.

Batwoman - Street level show (a la Arrow) with female lead (a la Supergirl). A couple changes from the premise shown this week:
Instead of recreating the Birds of Prey premise, Bruce is out of action, but his fate is known (see below).
Her supporting cast includes a number of Bat-Family characters. I'd suggest Batwing, Blackbat, and Oracle.

Superman - Starring Tyler Hoechlin, Elizabeth Tulloch, and Mehcad Brooks. Thematically replaces Supergirl, and sees the Man of Steel, Lois, and young Johnathan, along with James Olsen adapting to their new reality.

Justice League International - after being crippled by Bane, Bruce Wayne has found a new way to fight crime. Wayne Enterprises, Queen Consolidated, Palmer Tech, Kord Industries, and STAR Labs have financed a Global Metahuman Agency (similar to Earth-38's DEO). Team consists of Green Arrow, Green Lantern (John Stewart/Diggle), The Flash, Vibe, Supergirl, the Atom, and Thunder. (or some variation consisting of 1-3 characters from each of the four cancelled shows.)

Alternately to JLI - Brave and the Bold, the show consists of two 6-7 episode blocks for season 1, but changes to four 6 episode blocks (24 total episodes) in future seasons. Each block sees characters from the cancelled shows, but can be mixed and matched. Since the actors can now demand larger salaries, this cuts the cost by only using them for a couple months a year. Instead of spreading a story across 22 episodes, stories are tighter. This also allows for use of a wide variety of characters.


I think 45 hours is much too long. That's longer than the Hobbit and Lord of the rings epic put together... it's longer than ALL the Star Wars movies put together...

I really don't think there is near enough story there to keep people interested. Especially if they really don't care for some of the shows. I'm to the point now where I'm bored with Black Lightning and actively dislike Supergirl. You may draw me in with a crossover for an episode or two... but I don't want to be forced into the whole bloody season.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

I can sort of buy that. I suggested on one of the various Arrowverse threads, probably Flash, that perhaps XSpoint set events in motion that moved the Crisis up from 2024; they did meet Cicada early.

But how would that be Ollie's to trade?

GreenDragon1133 wrote:


1) Instead of a single 3-5 hour crossover, I would have it be a 45 hour interwoven story. All five shows (Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, and Black Lightning) take part.

Even the actual Crisis only ran for 12 issues...45 hours?!?

If you involve the Legends for 8 weeks, you'd probably have to roll Zero Hour in with the Crisis to explain why a group of time travelers has so little effect.

And I don't want everything but Black Lightning cancelled!

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Batwoman - I'd suggest Batwing, Blackbat, and Oracle.

Too many bats. Maybe just Oracle.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Superman - Starring Tyler Hoechlin, Elizabeth Tulloch, and Mehcad Brooks. Thematically replaces Supergirl

Superman has already had multiple series; even Superboy has had one (it was just one series with two different actors, right?) Supergirl is doing just fine. I would like to see Superman more than once a year as visitor, and I am sick to death of "Gosh, Kara, you're so much stronger than me." They ought to be equals, with slightly different experiences so that each can learn something from the other.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Justice League International - Team consists of Green Arrow, Green Lantern (John Stewart/Diggle), The Flash, Vibe, Supergirl, the Atom, and Thunder.

I like the sound of this. But Thunder seems seriously underpowered in this lineup, even against Green Arrow. I mean, she's basically strong and invulnerable...for as long as she can hold her breath. Okay, she can create shock waves. Her kid sister is still more powerful. But I have trouble picturing Lightning in the JLI.


45 = 5 Shows x 9 episodes each. Essentially, the entire "season" is all build up to the end of the Arrowverse as it presently exists.
While the title Crisis was only 12 issues, how many issues of every other title DC produced in '85 were tie-ins? Think of the shows as the tie-ins, with b-plots - that eventually become the a-plot.
Say, someone gathers Curtis, Felicity, Caitlin, Cisco, Ray, and whoever replaced Winn, to investigate some Science-y thing, that reveals itself to be the shockwaves of Earth-47, 16, and 12 dying. While Rene and Ralph are tracking Psycho Pirate.

Elseworlds was a backdoor pilot for Batwoman and Superman to get their own shows. Agreed on the writers' bias on Supergirl. Its why I stopped watching, and haven't read/posted to this thread for a year.

I included Thunder as she was the one (out of the three) metas on BL that could most easily branch off (not the lead, and an adult). I wanted to include someone from there. Which is why Mr. Terrific, Black Canary, White Canary, Citizen Steel, Martian Manhunter, and Elongated Man got passed over.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:
45 = 5 Shows x 9 episodes each. Essentially, the entire "season" is all build up to the end of the Arrowverse as it presently exists.

I understood where 45 was coming from. I don't want the Arrowverse as it presently exists to end, just...develop some more.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
While the title Crisis was only 12 issues, how many issues of every other title DC produced in '85 were tie-ins? Think of the shows as the tie-ins, with b-plots - that eventually become the a-plot.

Fair point.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Elseworlds was a backdoor pilot for Batwoman and Superman to get their own shows.

I...had momentarily forgotten a new Superman show was planned. That's fine, it just doesn't need to replace Supergirl.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
I included Thunder as she was the one (out of the three) metas on BL that could most easily branch off (not the lead, and an adult). I wanted to include someone from there.

I agree that someone from Black Lightning should be included, and Thunder is the best choice [begin difference of opinion] of three bad options.[/opinion] As you say, you want an adult, and not the lead. That Thunder is the only remaining option doesn't make her a good fit. But technically, Green Lantern could be coming in from Earth-BlackLightning. No Green Lantern has been shown elsewhere* and John Stewart's only tie to another character is Lynn.

*Yes, there have been hints. 4th season Arrow, we did see the name Jordan on a flight jacket in Coast City; 1st season Flash, a mention of a Ferris Air test pilot disappearing; and Hal was one of the names on speed dial on Earth-2 Barry Allen's phone.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Finally saw all the Elseworlds eps. I didn't really follow the plot, TBH, or rather I found it more enjoyable not paying attention to it. I liked a lot of the character elements though, and looking at the different realities.

AFAIK a Superman show has only been rumored, but it would be cool. I like Tyler Hoechlin as Superman a lot. I enjoyed Lois as well--she had a Margot Kidder-esque quality about her. But given part of the plot for Superman introduced in the Elseworlds story is...

Spoiler:

That he and Lois are having a baby and getting married, and moving to Argo City for the child's birth and early rearing, I wonder if it's going to be a sort of family Lois-and-Clark affair, and/or a Superman IN SPACE!! series

(non spoilery sentence ending) ... such that they are really writing him off or would be going in an as-yet-unseen in a Superman tv show direction with him.

On Green Lantern, I'm still rooting for John Stewart to show up. (I was also amused at 90s Flash saying to Diggle, "Where's your ring, John?" but I'm assuming that's more of a meta-joke that many fans kept pushing for Diggle to be a Green Lantern for some reason, than that he is actually going to be one.)

Liked Martian Manhunter's cameo in the Elseworlds episode, it's the most useful he's been in awhile!

I don't know how I feel about them doing a Justice League series. I feel like too much could go wrong. I do like seeing them expand the TVDCU a bit more though.


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DeathQuaker wrote:

But given part of the plot for Superman introduced in the Elseworlds story is...

Spoiler:
That he and Lois are having a baby and getting married, and moving to Argo City for the child's birth and early rearing, I wonder if it's going to be a sort of family Lois-and-Clark affair, and/or a Superman IN SPACE!! series

(non spoilery sentence ending) ... such that they are really writing him off or would be going in an as-yet-unseen in a Superman tv show direction with him.

Based on this Elseworlds being a setup for the next crossover being Crisis on Infinite Earths, I'm guessing:

Spoiler:
Earth-38 Supes (Hoechlin) dies heroically during Crisis, possibly setting up the reverse of the cover to Crisis #7. Likewise, I'm guessing the Earth-90 Flash (John Wesley Shipp) they introduced in Elseworlds also dies heroically (possibly similar to how Flash died in Crisis #8).

.

I'm not at all keen on fridging Hoechlin's Superman & Shipp's Flash to spur Earth-38 Supergirl's and Earth-1 Flash's character development. But Supergirl and Alex Danvers becoming aunts and babysitters to superbaby Jonathan Samuel Kent could add new layers to them both, as well as giving widowed mom Lois Lane opportunities to emerge from Supe's shadow (and a good reason to become a regular in future seasons). Likewise, something similar could happen with our Earth-1 Flash... but I don't think the show writers have demonstrated the could build on that development meaningfully.

DeathQuaker wrote:
On Green Lantern, I'm still rooting for John Stewart to show up. (I was also amused at 90s Flash saying to Diggle, "Where's your ring, John?" but I'm assuming that's more of a meta-joke that many fans kept pushing for Diggle to be a Green Lantern for some reason, than that he is actually going to be one.)

If some version of Diggle doesn't pop up as a Green Lantern during CW's Crisis event, they are totally dropping the ball. How would our Diggle react and likely reevaluate his life seeing what he is capable of as a Green Lantern? What if that GLDiggle dies during Crisis and his ring seeks out a new bearer... like our Earth-1 Diggle? They could let the Arrow show retire gracefully while giving David Ramsey and some of the other actors a spinoff. Or maybe the ring finds Earth-1 Jessica Cruz or even Jennifer-Lynn Hayden (Jade)?


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
On Green Lantern, I'm still rooting for John Stewart to show up. (I was also amused at 90s Flash saying to Diggle, "Where's your ring, John?" but I'm assuming that's more of a meta-joke that many fans kept pushing for Diggle to be a Green Lantern for some reason, than that he is actually going to be one.)
If some version of Diggle doesn't pop up as a Green Lantern during CW's Crisis event, they are totally dropping the ball. How would our Diggle react and likely reevaluate his life seeing what he is capable of as a Green Lantern? What if that GLDiggle dies during Crisis and his ring seeks out a new bearer... like our Earth-1 Diggle? They could let the Arrow show retire gracefully while giving David Ramsey and some of the other actors a spinoff. Or maybe the ring finds Earth-1 Jessica Cruz or even Jennifer-Lynn Hayden (Jade)?

And if I was King of the Foressssst a CW exec/writer, I'd write in a scene where the ring spots a Sean Connery, or an actor of equal but cheaper stature a gin-sipping Ryan Reynolds-lookalike and then moves on to choose Diggle/Cruz/Hayden instead.


One very minor complication with Diggle (of any Earth) becoming a Green Lantern is that -- at least before Elsewords -- fans weren't pushing for that character to be a GL, but for the actor to play GL John Stewart, perhaps in the next Justice League movie.

In the comics, GL John Stewart is the brother of Lynn Pierce née Stewart (Black Lightning's better half) and if they make Diggle a GL, that more or less kills the chance of seeing John Stewart ever appear on Black Lightning. (Not that there's much chance of it to begin with.)

Yes, there are multiple Green Lanterns and have even been more than one actively assigned to Earth/Sector 2814 at one time, but a big part of what makes the GL Corps interesting is its variety of species. I can't see the CW-verse introducing two Green Lanterns and making both of them male human ex-military GLs of about the same age and skin color (black, white, purple, whatever.) The service branches would be different: Army (Diggle) vs. Marines (Stewart), but that hardly seems sufficient.

A.Slaad: Reverse Crisis #7 cover and 90's Flash dying in next year's crossover is a brilliant idea. Too many speedsters as it is, who'd miss one Flash more or less?

After seeing your post I also kept trying to fit the square peg of 90's Flash dying in the Crisis into the round hole of Barry Allen disappearing for 25+ years. I can't make it fit because of XS. If we only had the future newspapers to go by, we might imagine that yes, the Flash did disappear in 2024 (or 2019 now, since things seem to have advanced the timeline by 5 years) but it wasn't our Flash after all.

So what did happen to Barry? He's mostly retired from the costumed hero biz, having handed off the care of Central City to competent new heroes. Iris' article provided cover. The West-Allens live happily ever after. But...XS. Nora's dad has been missing her whole life. If Barry secretly retired, it wasn't with Iris. She'd have to be from some alternate future, which means if Barry and Iris get the happy ending, they don't get this version of Nora. The only version the present-day West-Allens know won't exist.

I'm fine with how Hoechlin plays Superman, but not with how the writers handle him as Kara's second stringer. They ought to be equals; he ought to be rarely seen on Supergirl because he knows she can handle anything he can. But just as Clark can't do everything solo, once in a while Kara needs major help; on those occasions Superman should be a second Big Gun, not just his cousin's biggest fanboi.

I don't particularly need another Superman series at the moment, and I certainly don't need another Lois & Clark.


Honestly I just want Hoechlin to be Superman because so far, no one has stepped it up enough after the DCEU...

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I'm assuming that after the Crisis event in the fall, they'll combine all of the current shows into one earth, making Supergirl and Black Lightning in the same Earth-1 as Arrow, Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow. As part of that merging, it seems perfectly reasonable that some elements can change - including John Diggle just becoming John Stewart, and therefore Black Lightning's brother-in-law. That could then set up a Green Lantern show, possibly replacing Arrow when it finally ends after next year's season 8 (not announced, but not unreasonable).

Silver Crusade

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
On Green Lantern, I'm still rooting for John Stewart to show up. (I was also amused at 90s Flash saying to Diggle, "Where's your ring, John?" but I'm assuming that's more of a meta-joke that many fans kept pushing for Diggle to be a Green Lantern for some reason, than that he is actually going to be one.)
If some version of Diggle doesn't pop up as a Green Lantern during CW's Crisis event, they are totally dropping the ball. How would our Diggle react and likely reevaluate his life seeing what he is capable of as a Green Lantern? What if that GLDiggle dies during Crisis and his ring seeks out a new bearer... like our Earth-1 Diggle? They could let the Arrow show retire gracefully while giving David Ramsey and some of the other actors a spinoff. Or maybe the ring finds Earth-1 Jessica Cruz or even Jennifer-Lynn Hayden (Jade)?
And if I was King of the Foressssst a CW exec/writer, I'd write in a scene where the ring spots a Sean Connery, or an actor of equal but cheaper stature a gin-sipping Ryan Reynolds-lookalike and then moves on to choose Diggle/Cruz/Hayden instead.

Probably wouldn't even need a look alike, Reynolds I can see being talked into this easily.


I have been hoping for Green Lantern to show up since Flash premiered. Back in the 60s they did a lot together. I can see Infinite Crisis changing Diggle into John Steward if the writers decide to end up with only a single Earth. Just have to wait and see what they do.

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