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You've got to track encumbrance like you have to track gold.
If you're not tracking it out of convenience, you should be assuming you're carrying a heavy load and applying those penalties - but even that can be unfair on the rest of your group if you're actually on a medium or light load and don't know it.

ohako |
hmm, I track encumbrance, sure.
then I tried to put together a crack team of halfling wolf-riders, and guess what? exotic saddles don't reduce in weight when they go down in size. So all my poor woolvsies are encumbered :(
I guess encumbrance is okay when it makes sense for the story, but when there's a whole cavalier order set aside for just this thing and you start out encumbered? meh.

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A wolf should not require an exotic saddle.
You don't think so? I've not thought about the issue closely, mind, but it seems (fairly) clear to me that standard saddles probably only work on horses, mules, and donkeys. Heck, equine and bovine anatomy are sufficiently different that horse saddles cause injury to cattle in real life, and they're both large mammalian quadrupeds. I'd say just about anything besides the three I mentioned require exotic saddles.

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I think of Exotic Saddles as being for creatures whose outward anatomy differs from horses drastically. By that I mean, more than four legs, or has wings, or less than four legs.
So a saddle for a Griffon or Giant Snake or Dragon or Giant Scorpion. Things like that.
I think for fantasy settings Wolves, dogs, etc. are still iconic enough that the extra cost of an exotic saddle is not justified by rarity.
I think a FAQ should be made about saddle weights for different sized creatures, as there is no reason that that weight should not adjust based on the size of the creature.

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I think of Exotic Saddles as being for creatures whose outward anatomy differs from horses drastically. By that I mean, more than four legs, or has wings, or less than four legs.
So a saddle for a Griffon or Giant Snake or Dragon or Giant Scorpion. Things like that.
I think for fantasy settings Wolves, dogs, etc. are still iconic enough that the extra cost of an exotic saddle is not justified by rarity.
I think a FAQ should be made about saddle weights for different sized creatures, as there is no reason that that weight should not adjust based on the size of the creature.
heck, riding horses is such a rare thing I would almost think saddles for horse/pony/donkey should be the exotic ones. Seen lots of riding dogs/ax beaks/dinos/etc, but I can remember the last time I saw a PC on a real horse....

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graywulfe wrote:heck, riding horses is such a rare thing I would almost think saddles for horse/pony/donkey should be the exotic ones. Seen lots of riding dogs/ax beaks/dinos/etc, but I can remember the last time I saw a PC on a real horse....I think of Exotic Saddles as being for creatures whose outward anatomy differs from horses drastically. By that I mean, more than four legs, or has wings, or less than four legs.
So a saddle for a Griffon or Giant Snake or Dragon or Giant Scorpion. Things like that.
I think for fantasy settings Wolves, dogs, etc. are still iconic enough that the extra cost of an exotic saddle is not justified by rarity.
I think a FAQ should be made about saddle weights for different sized creatures, as there is no reason that that weight should not adjust based on the size of the creature.
Heh. I saw a human on a horse, as a PC, when playing one of the Shades of Ice scenarios. I will admit to seeing more non-Terran mounts in games than traditional Earth mounts...
And, while I sometimes check on PC encumbrance when GMing, I am more likely to ask, "So, how much do you and all your equipment weigh?" Gotta love some of those rickety bridges...

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If there is no reason (weight related trap) i realy do not care as a gm unless a char has dumped strength or i get the feeling "How much do you carry with you" but most of the time encumbrance is ignored.
For my own chars i realy calculate it at level 1 and if there is enough free space i only recalculate it when i use a new Charaktersheet. (most of the times after 4-6 Levels because it is not really usable anymore)

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As a player I always keep track of my own. Since I play more agile characters I have to make sure I stay at a light load so I retain my high dex bonus for my AC.
Since I started to GM, total weight carried is one thing I ask for. If you don't have it, it should not take you more than a couple of minutes to find it.

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kinevon wrote:I´m going to steal your idea. Surely I will find something afraid of the question.And, while I sometimes check on PC encumbrance when GMing, I am more likely to ask, "So, how much do you and all your equipment weigh?" Gotta love some of those rickety bridges...
Not my idea. Ran a scenario recently which had a rickety bridge-like structure, which actually included a "If the PC crossing this item weighs more than 250 pounds, it breaks." statement.

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Oykiv wrote:kinevon wrote:I´m going to steal your idea. Surely I will find something afraid of the question.And, while I sometimes check on PC encumbrance when GMing, I am more likely to ask, "So, how much do you and all your equipment weigh?" Gotta love some of those rickety bridges...
Not my idea. Ran a scenario recently which had a rickety bridge-like structure, which actually included a "If the PC crossing this item weighs more than 250 pounds, it breaks." statement.
** spoiler omitted **

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Oykiv wrote:kinevon wrote:I´m going to steal your idea. Surely I will find something afraid of the question.And, while I sometimes check on PC encumbrance when GMing, I am more likely to ask, "So, how much do you and all your equipment weigh?" Gotta love some of those rickety bridges...
Not my idea. Ran a scenario recently which had a rickety bridge-like structure, which actually included a "If the PC crossing this item weighs more than 250 pounds, it breaks." statement.
** spoiler omitted **
Wow... my husky Shoanti Shaman (Brawler/Oracle), Krojan the Immense, would be in all kinds of trouble since I think I have his unarmored weight around 325 (Think Vince Wilfork with Shoanti Tattoos)...

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Not my idea. Ran a scenario recently which had a rickety bridge-like structure, which actually included a "If the PC crossing this item weighs more than 250 pounds, it breaks." statement.
I played that one a couple of weeks back. My Wayang was the only one that actually crossed the bridge - everyone else jumped across, since the gap was only 5' wide. Even though I think everyone actually could have made it across, no one was willing to risk it.
My current characters is a 5 STR Kitsune sorceress, and I track it down to every last 10th of a pound. I spent a significant portion of my lvl 1 wealth on a Darkwood light crossbow just to save the 2lb. The only things I carry are a scroll box (1lb including scrolls), clothes (6lb - I know there's lighter, but there's no way in hell she'd let herself be seen in public in less than a courtier's outfit), the crossbow (2lb), bolts (1lb), a belt pouch with a journal and writing gear (1.5lb), and a belt pouch with personal grooming gear like a mirror, hair brush, and perfume (~2lb, can't risk being seen in public without a chance to check and fix one's hair). That's 13.5lb out of my 16lb light load limit, although I did effectively penalize myself about 5lb for RP reasons. No fun alchemy stuff, just because I can't afford to carry it.
I do have a separate backpack with things like food and bedding for more remote expeditions, but the general theme with that is that she shows up at the meeting looking miserable and barely able to move under the pack (it gets me to juuuust inside the upper limit of heavy load) and talking the party muscle into carrying it for me.
A side note - is there any equipment one can buy kind of like a kid's red wagon, just haul my stuff around in the little wagon and drop the handle when combat starts? Could also lead to some funny situations - someone sunders your wagon, or you let go of it on a slope and it starts rolling toward the river :)

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A side note - is there any equipment one can buy kind of like a kid's red wagon, just haul my stuff around in the little wagon and drop the handle when combat starts? Could also lead to some funny situations - someone sunders your wagon, or you let go of it on a slope and it starts rolling toward the river :)
The cart in the core weighs 200 pounds, so that is pretty useless for you. There's a donkey, costing 8 gold pieces. I have had characters use that, but it can't go everywhere. A kitsune might prefer an elegantly coiffed dog with saddlebags matching her own accessories...

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My current characters is a 5 STR Kitsune sorceress, and I track it down to every last 10th of a pound. I spent a significant portion of my lvl 1 wealth on a Darkwood light crossbow just to save the 2lb. The only things I carry are a scroll box (1lb including scrolls), clothes (6lb - I know there's lighter, but there's no way in hell she'd let herself be seen in public in less than a courtier's outfit), the crossbow (2lb), bolts (1lb), a belt pouch with a journal and writing gear (1.5lb), and a belt pouch with personal grooming gear like a mirror, hair brush, and perfume (~2lb, can't risk being seen in public without a chance to check and fix one's hair). That's 13.5lb out of my 16lb light load limit, although I did effectively penalize myself about 5lb for RP reasons. No fun alchemy stuff, just because I can't afford to carry it.
You should get a spell component pouch for the miscellaneous spell foci such as the clear crystal or mineral prism (read magic), copper wire (message), brass key (open/close) and all the others.
Yes, I know that as a sorcerer you have Eschew Materials. It seems that the spell component pouch is still needed for the spells that have a focus.

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Yes, I know that as a sorcerer you have Eschew Materials. It seems that the spell component pouch is still needed for the spells that have a focus.
That is good to know, I was assuming it was 100% unnecessary due to eschew materials, I didn't consider that a focus wouldn't count as a material component.
A kitsune might prefer an elegantly coiffed dog with saddlebags matching her own accessories...
Hadn't even considered a medium pack animal, that might actually be perfect for me.

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kinevon wrote:Wow... my husky Shoanti Shaman (Brawler/Oracle), Krojan the Immense, would be in all kinds of trouble since I think I have his unarmored weight around 325 (Think Vince Wilfork with Shoanti Tattoos)...Oykiv wrote:kinevon wrote:I´m going to steal your idea. Surely I will find something afraid of the question.And, while I sometimes check on PC encumbrance when GMing, I am more likely to ask, "So, how much do you and all your equipment weigh?" Gotta love some of those rickety bridges...
Not my idea. Ran a scenario recently which had a rickety bridge-like structure, which actually included a "If the PC crossing this item weighs more than 250 pounds, it breaks." statement.
** spoiler omitted **
Bloatmage might be in trouble, too.
Or that Cleric in heavy armor, with a negative to his physical skills...
I was lucky the other day, playing my Str/Dex 10 Cleric in masterwork breastplate. People had ropes, and the jump across the river was only 5'...

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Still, what about Reduce Person? You just talked about Enlarge, but what if a small character casts Reduce Person on himself? Armors for Tiny creatures weight 1/10, but Tiny weapons are not taken in account. Same for all the remaining gear. Also, item that usually don't scale with size, like saddles or alchemicals, still reduce their dimensions because of magic, so why should they weight as if they were in normal size?

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The answer to your question is within the text of Reduce Person.
This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8.
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell.

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I have several low-Strength characters. Recently one of them was in a scenario where a rope would have been useful. One of the other players (who is also a 4-star GM) asked me why I didn't have a rope on my character. I told him that she didn't have the Strength to carry everything, so I chose not to buy a rope for her.
He then basically called me a chump for tracking encumbrance. He said that no GM ever tracks encumbrance. Is this true, that no one else tracks encumbrance? And isn't it the players' responsibility to track that?
When I am running a game, I certainly don't ask my players what the weight of their gear is; I expect them to worry about that. But I also track the encumbrance of all of my characters, including the Str 5 halfling and the Str 22 dwarf.
Your GM is the jerk if he called you that for following the rules. I DO audit encumbrance on any character that raises a flag, such as those of subpar strength carrying a truck load of gear.

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For all those low-str casters, and others, there is the Pathfinder Pouch, a pouch side Handy-Haversack. Carries 10 pounds for the weight of 1 (or 2 cubic feet). Only 1,000 gp. From Seekers of Secrets.
It's how my 8 str Sorceress carried potions/alchemical flasks, etc.
I love the pathfinder pouch, but should point out that potions have negligible weight.
That might free up some space in your Sorcerer's pathfinder pouch. :)

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Meager Rolmug wrote:...cornball explanations like "i drop my backpack as a free action before every fight..."Do you not feel that characters should be allowed to drop their backpacks?
A pre-combat (or at the beginning) backpack drop is always a good idea. I personally think that a Handy Haversack or Pathfinder Pouch is the answer for most pathfinders.
As far as tracking encumbrance, I tend to ask the following question; Who DOESN'T have a Handy Haversack, Pathfinder Pouch or Bag of Holding for their bulky items? That's the point I decide if I want to check out folks sheets to see if there are shenanigans going on. But in fairness- it something to be done before the game begins, I saw a GM do it at a crucial moment in game which led to the characters death- no way you are going to make that -14 Dex check! It was comical (and the player tends to annoy me), so I didn't mind all that much (evil grin). But as a general rule, I only ask at the beginning of a game.

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I will admit that I don't track it as well as I should, either for my own characters, or for my players' characters. I will have to crack down on myself for that. I do have reservations about cracking down on my players about this though. (Mostly three things. 1. I don't want to engender a no fun aaudit every character before every scenario. 2. I don't really want to waste my time on it [unless it seems game breaking]. 3. It takes away from time I could be laughing with (and occaissionally at) my players.

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I track weight and encumbrance diligently, and I expect players to, also. It is one of the penalties for dumping strength. Even if you don't dump strength, it's still an issue. Somebody mentioned light infantry fighters, and I agree that these guys are in the biggest trouble.
Still, even strengths build can easily fall into medium encumbrance until they can get handy haversacks, but if you're in medium armor anyway, it doesn't much matter. When you're carrying four-five different melee weapons (for different materials and damage types), at least one ranged weapon/ammunition, 2-3 acid flasks, 2-3 alchemists fires, blanket, bedroll, rope, and grappling hook, it adds up pretty quickly, even without water (8 lbs per gallon) and food. Not to mention cold weather gear.
If you have crafting tools, those tack on the weight. I'd bet many alchemists are actually encumbered if they don't track it carefully, since they can't really leave their portable labs and formula books at home. (The pregen alchemist in We Be Goblins 2 is actually encumbered when you put him in a program that tracks encumbrance.)
How many wizards/maguses/arcanists ever track the weight of those spell books? (And at higher levels, you probably need more than one, because each one only has 100 pages.)
My strength fighter carries a haversack and a bag of holding, but she also carries around a portable bridge, block and tackle, folding ladder, periscope, collapsible trampoline...

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My bard finally got down to light encumbrance after last session. He has to decide which outfit he is wearing and leave his coinage at home or with another PC but he can finally move 30ft without begging others to carry half of his possessions. Having a strength of 11 can be rough if you wear armor.
I generally assume that I will either have no armor or medium encumbrance. It is surprisingly hard to wear armor and keep light encumbrance without a strength build.

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I had a player bothered that my cleric didn't step up to the fight and give him a flanking bonus. "I have a Strength penalty I don't have a weapon."
The GM said 'you can still threaten with a Strength penalty, you can still provide flanking.'
"I have a Strength penalty. I don't HAVE a weapon, because I can't CARRY it." And yes spending all my encumbrance to keep my healer's AC up, still seems like a good trade for an ineffective weapon. :)

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I had a player bothered that my cleric didn't step up to the fight and give him a flanking bonus. "I have a Strength penalty I don't have a weapon."
The GM said 'you can still threaten with a Strength penalty, you can still provide flanking.'
"I have a Strength penalty. I don't HAVE a weapon, because I can't CARRY it." And yes spending all my encumbrance to keep my healer's AC up, still seems like a good trade for an ineffective weapon. :)
You can't even carry a 1 pound dagger?

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Curaigh wrote:You can't even carry a 1 pound dagger?I had a player bothered that my cleric didn't step up to the fight and give him a flanking bonus. "I have a Strength penalty I don't have a weapon."
The GM said 'you can still threaten with a Strength penalty, you can still provide flanking.'
"I have a Strength penalty. I don't HAVE a weapon, because I can't CARRY it." And yes spending all my encumbrance to keep my healer's AC up, still seems like a good trade for an ineffective weapon. :)
Actually, depending on how he gets his AC up, he may actually already have a weapon, as the gauntlets from most medium and heavy armor count as weapons, IIRC.

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Curaigh wrote:You can't even carry a 1 pound dagger?I had a player bothered that my cleric didn't step up to the fight and give him a flanking bonus. "I have a Strength penalty I don't have a weapon."
The GM said 'you can still threaten with a Strength penalty, you can still provide flanking.'
"I have a Strength penalty. I don't HAVE a weapon, because I can't CARRY it." And yes spending all my encumbrance to keep my healer's AC up, still seems like a good trade for an ineffective weapon. :)
Daggers are for throwing, "I missed, but *whew* now I am no longer encumbered."

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Has anyone noticed how many of the encumbrance boosting options aren't legal in Core? No masterwork backpacks, ant haul, muleback cords... Makes me wish handy haversacks were always available (or fame->price was more fine-grained)
I have a core Ranger with 14 strength. 58 lbs for light disappears after armor, a couple weapons and a small number of handy items (I have no room for silk rope). The good news is that I have several cheap items I can dump if I ever need to carry anything beyond my kit.
I track encumbrance for myself very carefully because I consider movement speed to be one of the most important combat abilities for all characters. Being in the right/wrong square can make a huge difference. Unfortunately this conflicts with my desire to carry some potentially useful/roleplay items on many of my characters at least until I can afford that haversack.

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Not to dare write something nice about HeroLab but this is something it does well. I never have to worry about tracking my characters encumbrance the program handles it quite well automatically.
There are some limitations to be aware of though.
HeroLab gets the weight wrong on many small sized items. It either halves the weight twice or applies the half weight when it shouldn't.
HeroLab also does not count the weight of the free outfit PCs get at first level.

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The idea of dropping the backpack when you get into combat sounds good, but really only works if you have a free hand... this is why all of my Core characters have a trusty mule with a pack saddle and a point into Handle Animal.
Another thing you can do is ask the dwarf to carry your stuff, if you have one... very few of the things like rope and RP items are something you need in combat, you just don't want to leave them on the surface during a delve.