Do people track encumbrance in PFS?


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I missed the actual ruling against electronic character sheets can someone link it please? That is going to cause quite a lot of angst at the FLGS.

Silver Crusade 2/5

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The Fox wrote:
Meager Rolmug wrote:
...cornball explanations like "i drop my backpack as a free action before every fight..."
Do you not feel that characters should be allowed to drop their backpacks?

In the Army, our backpacks had quick releases specifically to be able to drop them at the beginning of a fight.

That said, in Pathfinder, you may never recover something you drop. Watch out!

Just for the tallies, I track encumbrance carefully, both for my STR 7 sorceress and my STR 24 samurai. (I just occasionally carry other people on my samurai.)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Jessex wrote:
I missed the actual ruling against electronic character sheets can someone link it please? That is going to cause quite a lot of angst at the FLGS.

LINK


Jiggy wrote:
Jessex wrote:
I missed the actual ruling against electronic character sheets can someone link it please? That is going to cause quite a lot of angst at the FLGS.
LINK

Thank you

4/5

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Jessex wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Jessex wrote:
I missed the actual ruling against electronic character sheets can someone link it please? That is going to cause quite a lot of angst at the FLGS.
LINK
Thank you

I believe my personal solution for this will be to keep a blank character sheet in a plastic sleeve and use a wet erase marker to copy my character details off my tablet if a GM requires it. Though more likely I'd just walk away from the table.

Liberty's Edge

I track my characters' encumbrance regardless of strength and I trust the players around me to do the same. Most of the time it doesn't have much of an effect since all of them have their adventuring crap in a Handy Haversack. Novice players may not have a HH, but they get one once an experienced player explains the advantages.

My Str 8 Wizard grabbed a +2 battleax off a dead NPC because I knew I had just enough room to carry it around and still be Light. I could show the numbers to the GM, but he didn't ask. I still pictured him dragging it around though. When the large BBG teleported adjacent to him, he flanked for the fighters and even got a strike in. I described him as dragging the ax along the ground in an arc and hitting it in the Achilles heel. Did 4 points of damage (F: "With a 2 handed bonus." W:"Included.",F: "You know it's +2.", W: "Yes. Yes I do."). Anyhow, it was enough to drop the thing before it squished him.

One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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EricMcG wrote:


One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.

Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.

Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.

Contributor

BigNorseWolf wrote:
EricMcG wrote:


One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.

Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.

Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.

The weight's not just doubled though is it? The spell description says "[t]his spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8." Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Christopher Rowe wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
EricMcG wrote:


Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?

No. Those two statements are kept apart by the entire length of the spell description in a completely separate paragraph. The paragraph that starts off a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell details what the changes do to the equipment.

We don't have rules for the weight making a medium creature large. We do have have rules for large equipment though. It would be kind of odd if a large greatsword that the character picked up weighed 1/4 of what what the greatsword he was carrying when he got transformed did.

Liberty's Edge

Christopher Rowe wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
EricMcG wrote:


One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.

Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.

Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.

The weight's not just doubled though is it? The spell description says "[t]his spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8." Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?

The being has their weight multiplied by 8, gear goes up to the next size category which already have defined weights.

Contributor

Wow, this is really interesting. I'd never noticed this trap in Enlarge Person before. I just ran these numbers, testing with the character I'm readying for a game tomorrow. Normally, her applicable stats look like this:

Size Medium: 5'4" tall and weighs 140 pounds
Strength 11
Carrying 40 pounds of gear, Light Load

If someone cast Enlarge Person on her, that becomes:

Size Large: 10'8" tall and weighs 1,120 pounds
Strength 13
Carrying 320 pounds of gear

Taking the x2 for Large creatures BigNorseWolf pointed out into account, with her new strength of 13 her maximum weight carried is 300 pounds. So, what happens?

Contributor

Okay, okay, those are two separate arguments attacking the issue from two equally creditable angles, thanks. It would be kind of a pointless spell if every time you cast it on a heavily equipped fighter they got big then fell to their knees, eh?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Likewise, when you shrink from medium to small, your equipment is halved in weight while your carrying capacity becomes 3/4, so even with the -2 to Strength you're still probably fine.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

My standard practice:

- if I have a lot of Strength and not a lot of gear I don't calculate encumbrance.
- if I have mediocre or bad Strength I will assume I'm encumbered until I get around to buying a Handy Haversack, which I'll do at the earliest opportunity.

Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and check what´s actually in that handy haversack. Just to find some unsheathed daggers or similar stuff next to things that don´t really fit in there or would destroy it....:D

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Benjamin Falk wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and check what´s actually in that handy haversack. Just to find some unsheathed daggers or similar stuff next to things that don´t really fit in there or would destroy it....:D

Swords and whatnot come with the appropriate sheath, its one of the reasons the weapon weights are absurdly heavy for something you could swing without getting a hernia.

Cost: This value is the weapon's cost in gold pieces (gp) or silver pieces (sp). The cost includes miscellaneous gear that goes with the weapon, such as a scabbard or quiver.

This is why I'm really wary of DMs who play "Godtcha!" to mess up players. Chances are pretty good there's another rule somewhere that stops something really bad from happening.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Christopher Rowe wrote:

Wow, this is really interesting. I'd never noticed this trap in Enlarge Person before. I just ran these numbers, testing with the character I'm readying for a game tomorrow. Normally, her applicable stats look like this:

Size Medium: 5'4" tall and weighs 140 pounds
Strength 11
Carrying 40 pounds of gear, Light Load

If someone cast Enlarge Person on her, that becomes:

Size Large: 10'8" tall and weighs 1,120 pounds
Strength 13
Carrying 320 pounds of gear

Taking the x2 for Large creatures BigNorseWolf pointed out into account, with her new strength of 13 her maximum weight carried is 300 pounds. So, what happens?

Her gear almost certainly doesn't become 320 pounds in weight. Probably closer to 80 pounds, which is probably still going to be light encumbrance, given the doubling for Large size.

Grand Lodge 3/5

So...... what if someone has muleback cords and a heavyload belt? I have a character that may occasionally carry a character or two for funsies. (His strength is at 18 with a masterwork backpack)

2/5

I track the encumbrance of my characters. And I agree it´s a balancing issue.

And, in my Area, our V.O. has checked once the encumbrance of some characters. We having been told of this check beforehand, and he refuse to check the encumbrance of my 18 ST character in heavy armor, and checked the low strengh characters. It results in our gunslinger having to left back a melee weapon or two, because he can´t carry all the stuff and continue being in light load.

I assume this was done because is not uncommon to drop strenght, but then pick every item you want except a handy haversack to be able to carry all.

Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Benjamin Falk wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and check what´s actually in that handy haversack. Just to find some unsheathed daggers or similar stuff next to things that don´t really fit in there or would destroy it....:D

Swords and whatnot come with the appropriate sheath, its one of the reasons the weapon weights are absurdly heavy for something you could swing without getting a hernia.

Cost: This value is the weapon's cost in gold pieces (gp) or silver pieces (sp). The cost includes miscellaneous gear that goes with the weapon, such as a scabbard or quiver.

This is why I'm really wary of DMs who play "Godtcha!" to mess up players. Chances are pretty good there's another rule somewhere that stops something really bad from happening.

I would definately point this out, but never ever note down the item destroyed. It´more of a joke. As a GM i´m very forgiving on players making mistakes and actually i expect the same when i play more or less.

Having fun together is a clear focus in this game and PFS and should never be forgotten.

Liberty's Edge

I am very meticulous in keeping up with my encumbrance(well, unless I am a dwarf) and it's effects and I will spot check players at my table if I notice they have a lot of gear or a low strength. Hero Lab is great for that.

I also will check on folks who use Handy Haversacks because it is amazing how often you will see people with hundreds of pounds of gear stuffed into one. Also folks who forget that regular bags of holding are pretty weighty on their own.

But then I also insist on keeping track of consumables and ammunition. It's all forms of checks and balances.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

i track weight until i get my muleback cords. then i get my haversack. then i will spot check from time to time to make sure that i am still good

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Bison (50 gp, animal archive) + Heavy Wagon (100 gp, ultimate combat). 4000 lbs of gear you don't need to worry about. Granted, a bit difficult to take along into a narrow dungeon.

Solution:
A herd of mules (8 gp, CRB) with pack saddle (5 gp, CRB), each mule carries up to 100 lbs at light load with a speed of 40 ft., or up to 200 pounds with a speed of 30 ft.

While it may take a lot more time to get to equipment in combat, it'll make carrying adventuring gear and loot a lot easier. Feed is cheap at 5 copper per day. Just make sure you keep your combat gear in your handy haversack (potions, wands, scrolls, alchemical remedies, etc) and all the heavy adventuring gear on the mules (collapsible planks, folding ladders, folding poles, tents, climbing kits, etc)

Contributor

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Damanta wrote:

Bison (50 gp, animal archive) + Heavy Wagon (100 gp, ultimate combat). 4000 lbs of gear you don't need to worry about. Granted, a bit difficult to take along into a narrow dungeon.

Solution:
A herd of mules (8 gp, CRB) with pack saddle (5 gp, CRB), each mule carries up to 100 lbs at light load with a speed of 40 ft., or up to 200 pounds with a speed of 30 ft.

While it may take a lot more time to get to equipment in combat, it'll make carrying adventuring gear and loot a lot easier. Feed is cheap at 5 copper per day. Just make sure you keep your combat gear in your handy haversack (potions, wands, scrolls, alchemical remedies, etc) and all the heavy adventuring gear on the mules (collapsible planks, folding ladders, folding poles, tents, climbing kits, etc)

Reminds me of something, spoilering to avoid derailing.

Spoiler:
I can't tell if this is in jest or not, but it reminds me of a campaign I ran many years ago that had a lot of that sort of thing going on. There was an in-game-world merchant consortium founded to recover "unclaimed" goods and monies, and they would send mini-armies of engineers, appraisers, carters, healers, cooks, etc. to known dungeon sites and take everything that was and wasn't nailed down, up to and including door hinges, mechanical trap components, dressed stone tiles, etc. The PCs were the elite troubleshooters who went in ahead and took care of monsters and traps in exchange for a percentage of the haul. Eventually this got too easy for the players and I had local governments tax the consortium out of existence and we returned to a more traditional campaign mode, but it was interesting there for awhile.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I track encumbrance on all of my PCs, but rarely as a GM. The two situations to watch out for (as both a GM and player):

Very low STR characters: This is pretty obvious, they can probably barely carry a handy haversack and a spell component pouch.

Light Infantry PCs: These characters typically have 10-13 STR, but are also wearing light armor and weapons, which typically suck up all of light encumbrance (and they need to be lightly encumbered, often because class features would stop working - like rogue evasion and monk flurry of blows).

Rare situation: FIghters with armor training 2. They get to move at full speed with respect to armor, but not encumbrance. And that FUll Plate probably takes a chunk out of even an 18 STR light encumbrance.

Especially on the light PCs, you need to look at alchemical consumables. Many of these are surprisingly heavy - and can really add up if you have multiple. Acid, Alchemist fire all weigh 1 pound (Tanglefoot bags weigh 4 pounds).

As a helpful tool, here are some solutions for characters (many mentioned above):

Level 1-5:
Most of your extra weight is low value mundane gear (shovel, rope). Buy a mule (8gp medium creature) and load it up. If it dies, and loses your gear, you're probably only out 50-100gp.

That backpack of rope and shovels? The party really only needs one of those, so get the high STR fighter to carry it - unless he already has one, in which case you can probably leave yours at home.

Get a Masterwork backpack (50gp, UE) - it helps a little, but when combined with the spell Ant Haul (get a wand for 2 prestige), you can carry a lot, even with a 10 STR Swashbuckler. You really only need this option when you can't rely on your mule (above). The mule is good for long overland trips, the backpack and spell for jumping into a dungeon for a few hours.

An arcane caster might consider learning Floating Disk as well. For the low cost of a level 1 slot (for this or ant haul), you can bypass most encumbrance issues.

I am not a fan of muleback cords. They cost 1000gp and take up the same item slot as a cloak of resistance. For just 1000gp more, you can get a handy haversack.

You could of course "drop the backpack" in combat, but I'm of a mind that's a move action, and likely one you won't able to take (you'll either want to spend it drawing something else, or moving towards or away from danger). If the backpack just has all your 50-100gp in mundane gear, it's not a risk if it is lost.

Level 5+
Just get a handy haversack. It gives you an extra 115 pounds of carrying capacity. If you really need to carry a lot of stuff, buy a bag of holding as well. The haversack is just too useful. It lets you draw items without provoking (handy in combat - pun not intended).

Sovereign Court

Also - if you do go with a 'Light Infantry PC' and dump your strength, just take the trait that makes your strength count as 2 points higher for encumbrance. (Dumping strength is pretty viable now for swashbucklers etc) Of course - monks don't really need to worry about encumbrance as much even with dumped strength. (Also viable -optimal even- if you AP/GM credit them up to the point where they can get a 4,000 gp item. You don't want to have to actually play with that negative to damage. :P)

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Nefreet wrote:
trollbill wrote:
I like you Nefreet. I really do. But hasn't your insistence that everyone keep their character records your way already caused enough trouble on these forums?

I'd like to point out I wasn't the one asking for that ruling.

I'm not even in favor of it.

I didn't even participate in the thread that resulted in that ruling.

Other ppl, dating back two years or more, were the ones asking for "no tech".

My opposition was purely to using the HeroLab program at the table.

And, for the fifth time now, I have no problem with ppl using a HeroLab character sheet (or whatever tracking sheet they'd like to use).

I realize this got blown up on the forums (and even on Facebook), and a lot of ppl have been scapegoating me for it, but this ruling wasn't my doing.

I believe you made your views very clear, and frankly I have no problem with your decisions on that subject (I might still want to use a printed hero lab character sheet in conjunction with the software - if they get of their backsides and offer an android version - to track buffs in high level games) and I don't think that your posts were the reason for that particular decision.

That particular issue has been simering for a long time, and would have errupted once someone posts "my GM broke my tablet because he wanted to audit my character... since he didn't trust
me......" I am not that happy with the decision, but I can understand it, forcing GMs to accept and deal with the devices would have been an impossible ruling.

-------------------------

Regarding encumberance, frankly I let Hero Lab track most of it. It only really matters with low strength characters, and frankly I think that is were people start to calculate their exact encumberance. A kensei magus with 5-7 Strength is really asking for it, especially since their AC drops to the nether regions until they can drop their backpacks and enter combat.

Funny fact, I checked the equipment of our iconic shaman with Hero Lab (to lazy to do it by hand) and our Strength 7 full plate wearing badass .... can't move. She is about 5 pounds over high encumberance, which would no problem since thoese penalties match her armor check penalty. Well I guess she tends to drag her backpack behind her most of the time ^^

Silver Crusade

I was helping a friend put the 7th-level ninja into Hero Lab last night. He, too, is encumbered. He is at a medium load.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Funny fact, I checked the equipment of our iconic shaman with Hero Lab (to lazy to do it by hand) and our Strength 7 full plate wearing badass .... can't move. She is about 5 pounds over high encumberance, which would no problem since thoese penalties match her armor check penalty. Well I guess she tends to drag her backpack behind her most of the time ^^

She's a Dwarf.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Nefreet wrote:
She's a Dwarf.

While that helps, remember that even a dwarf can't exceed double their max load. The Slow and Steady trait only prevents your speed from being modified. Nothing else. For a 7 Str character, that's 140lbs.

Dark Archive

The other option is to use Muleback Chords. Though it replaces the slot most have for Cloak of Resistance.

Muleback Chords make your STR 8 higher for only carrying weight. It is only 1,000 gold. But it is ONLY for carrying weight. I bought it for my 11 STR, Undine Cleric.

Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, page 171.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
She's a Dwarf.
While that helps, remember that even a dwarf can't exceed double their max load. The Slow and Steady trait only prevents your speed from being modified. Nothing else. For a 7 Str character, that's 140lbs.

That's because there's an error with her sheet. She actually has 8, not the listed 7 (check her first two sheets. It's 8 there, and if it was actually 7 her PB is off).

Sovereign Court

Saiman wrote:
The other option is to use Muleback Chords. Though it replaces the slot most have for Cloak of Resistance.

Does anyone NOT have a cloak of resistance past the first few levels?

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Protection domain clerics.

Sovereign Court

TOZ wrote:
Protection domain clerics.

Fair enough. So - muleback chords are great for low strength protection domain clerics... and nobody else. :P

5/5

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Protection domain clerics.
Fair enough. So - muleback chords are great for low strength protection domain clerics... and nobody else. :P

Honestly, it isn't even that good for them. The Domain ability starts out good at +1 but only goes to +2 at 5th and +3 at 10th. That's pretty slow progression for a fairly key item.

Muleback Cords are just not very good and if you are a caster you are far better off using Ant Haul. It lasts 2 hours per level and is only level 1. You can always use a pearl of power if you really need it back.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

There is also the burdenless armor enchantment. While it's more expensive than Muleback Cords or a Heavy Lift Belt, it is a flat rate armor enhancement and doesn't take up a slot.

Grand Lodge

I did until I spent gold on a horse and pack saddle, the margin of encumbrance is wide enough once you axe pots, pans, and bedrolls for my druid to be far enough down in encumbrance to not worry about picking up a dagger dropped from a dead guy.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Protection domain clerics.
Fair enough. So - muleback chords are great for low strength protection domain clerics... and nobody else. :P

I got the extra Item slot feat for my wolf and he wears muleback cords, means I can tie an unconscious party memeber on, and not slow down.

Also led to one amusing case where I put the cords on and the small gnome hefted the medium wolf up a wall. :-)

Dark Archive

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If nobody has said this yet, I won't totally track eencumbereence, unless you know you're like "Okay, this isa non-humanoid stonee platee made of solid dumbells", I'm gonna need some numbeers.


Lawrence of Qadira wrote:
I have several low-Strength characters.

While I should track encumbrance I never do unless it's a strange build. 18 str builds simply can carry more than you'd ever realistically need to carry. My wizard 7str carries less than 10 pounds on him.

Lawrence of Qadira wrote:
He then basically called me a chump for tracking encumbrance. He said that no GM ever tracks encumbrance. Is this true, that no one else tracks encumbrance? And isn't it the players' responsibility to track that?

The thing is the only builds I can see ever actually not being within capacity are dex builds. Everything else doesn't get tracked because it's simply too little to matter. The full armor builds tend to be dwarfs or have 18 str which makes things simple.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Undone wrote:
Lawrence of Qadira wrote:
I have several low-Strength characters.

While I should track encumbrance I never do unless it's a strange build. 18 str builds simply can carry more than you'd ever realistically need to carry. My wizard 7str carries less than 10 pounds on him.

Lawrence of Qadira wrote:
He then basically called me a chump for tracking encumbrance. He said that no GM ever tracks encumbrance. Is this true, that no one else tracks encumbrance? And isn't it the players' responsibility to track that?
The thing is the only builds I can see ever actually not being within capacity are dex builds. Everything else doesn't get tracked because it's simply too little to matter. The full armor builds tend to be dwarfs or have 18 str which makes things simple.

Since you don't track capacity, how would you actually know that? I track capacity on all my characters and I can say equivocally that the only ones who don't have to worry about capacity are the Strength builds. And the little things can add up quickly. Want a Cloak of Resistance? That's a pound. A Headband of Intellect? Another pound. It doesn't take long before even a Wizard is carrying more than 10 lbs.

Liberty's Edge

My 5 strength gnome sorcerer has muleback cords. Before that even carrying a dagger as a weapon was questionable. I even sold my Magic Cloak to get it. Wish I could find a Vest of Resistance ala v3.5.

One of these days I plan an audit as a GM, but only bother on those who can move 30' (or 20' for wee folk). The guys I game with are low level so probably ok at this point, but it will at least start keeping it in the back of their minds before they start making major purchases.


trollbill wrote:
Since you don't track capacity, how would you actually know that? I track capacity on all my characters and I can say equivocally that the only ones who don't have to worry about capacity are the Strength builds. And the little things can add up quickly. Want a Cloak of Resistance? That's a pound. A Headband of Intellect? Another pound. It doesn't take long before even a Wizard is carrying more than 10 lbs.

I calculate it once at character creation. My total weight carried is basically a spell book and a wand of which I hand off both at the start of every adventure. Carried items amount to weightless scrolls a belt, a headband, and a cloak presently.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Pfs is a fun game to be played in a limited timeframe. I've never asked players about encumbrance. To me it's one of the not fun bookkeeping aspects of the game, like appraising and selling loot. I assume it's taken care of off screen and ignore it. As a player, I pretty much ignore it except on the one character I have with low strength that wears armor. If you're playing a character where they're going to be close to or over encumbered, like a str7 gunslinger, you better track it, if you aren't going to be close, don't bother.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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I think the encumbrance game rules are way to, well, cumbersome.

I totally think we should have some kind of system in place. It's one of the balancing points on dumping strength. And the amount of gear you can bring with you is just one of the limited resources you play with, that's IMO also part of an adventurer. To be prepared for everything means overspending on consumables and overloading on gear. So you have to pick some things not to be ready for (for now). I think those choices are part of the game.

But without some sort of automated calculation (spreadsheet, herolab) the system is just too much work.

---

Anyway, I find that 10-12 Str characters are medium encumbered quite quickly. Armor, weapons, a few flasks of acid and a tanglefoot bag and you're there.

Scarab Sages 4/5

I'll admit to not always keeping my encumbrance updated. But I do pay attention to it and spend resources to help improve it. All of my low str Dex build characters invest in mithral armor. I'll usually have a masterwork backpack until I can afford a handy haversack. When you have a strength under 10 (I only have one character with an 8, a gnome), things add up quickly. Even a handy haversack is not something you can ignore the weight of. It's also important to keep track of what is in the handy haversack and what isn't. Yes, when you own one you can carry a lot more, but anything in the haversack will be a move action to retrieve, so spare weapons, etc. can't be drawn as part of a move and things like that.

Strangely, my highest strength character (a 20 STR Monk) carries the least equipment of any of them.

Sovereign Court

andreww wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Protection domain clerics.
Fair enough. So - muleback chords are great for low strength protection domain clerics... and nobody else. :P
Honestly, it isn't even that good for them. The Domain ability starts out good at +1 but only goes to +2 at 5th and +3 at 10th. That's pretty slow progression for a fairly key item.

In PFS levels - would that ever be more than a point or so behind anyone else? I don't see any 4th level characters with +2 cloaks, though they might get a +3 by 8 or 9, and maybe a +4 by 12. But in the cases of being better than the cleric - that'd be a pretty significant part of their wealth. Gold the protection domain cleric can put into other stuff. I'm not saying the cleric's saves will be better than the norm past the 1st couple levels - but it keeps up fine and saves the cleric a bunch of gold and an item slot.


Rather than spend gold on muleback chords at low level, i always buy darkwood weapons(the ones that qualify) and shields. Also i just go with lighter armor till i can afford a mithral version of the heavier types. That way my investment has a permanent payoff...both of those are always masterwork and are ready to enchant. I also often play small size PC's due to the previously mentioned encumbrance advantage of 3/4 of medium hauling, while much of their equipment(weapon, armor, + shields, etc.) is 1/2 weight and some heavier items are only 1/4(waterskin, backpack, outfits). Just be careful, being small is a disadvantage for all the items that do not change weight for a small PC...like alchemical items. Doing the above lets you have a decent amount of gear for...say a bard of strength 10. Gets pretty difficult to avoid encumbrance if any armor is worn with any PC with a str lower than 10. There are items that provide a resistance bonus to saves besides a cloak in the "shoulders" slot...but most only provide it for very specific saves...but that might be a possibility for a PC that wants to wear muleback chords. I will check a bit and repost if i find any good ones.


AEGIS OF RECOVERY=neck and SEDUCER'S BANE=wrist; seem to be the best low cost items that would somewhat offset not having a cloak of resistance...there are very spendy body slot items that give, among other things, a +4 resistance bonus to all saves for specific classes.

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