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******** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South 173 posts (268 including aliases). 24 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 57 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Jared one of the bigger Problems is, that we have FAR too many skillchallanges that either force you to roll or expect mathematically that everyone can roll (with a reasonable chance at a sucess/crit sucess) to succeed and a lot of these only give you options you need to be trained in (and not saves/perception)

This could be fixed somewhat with hirelings but is bad gamedesign (which I express in all reviews for these scenarios. So now you are telling players "here I take away the thing that allowed you to lessen the impact of designdecissions that you do not like".
Also the sentence " In the course of completing a scenario, the PCs are likely to acquire all 10 Treasure Bundles as part of overcoming challenges and inspecting their surroundings. " reads to me as a non native speaker that if everything goes "normal" you get full rewards and the sentences afterward suggest that if you fail hard you might get less treasure.
And this is how it also was in PF1/SFS so it is not wierd for people having this expectation. Also some kind of anecdotal information: Players react FAR worse to loosing money than to loosing out the second sucess/prestige/fame.

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Well it would be nice if the solution to the 3-player table would be something that is not a hardmode, as this leaves the players in a bind, if they are not that comfortable with the extra challange:
Either they suck it up cause they want to play or they speak up and noone gets to play (which might lead to peer pressure)

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As can be seen in my review of the scenario I completely agree with the three posters above me.

Mike I think you did a good job with making the hobgoblins feel "there" but not useless or overbearing.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
The key is a reasonable dm to player ratio. If you have DMs with prepped ish scenarios it doesn't matter how many people show up until you run out of flat rolling surfaces.

The problem in a lot of 1 table locations is that there is no second table available...

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Michael Sayre wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
The overall rewards for everyone have increased.

Uh,that's not really true. [...]

Sure it is. Did you get three race boons a year just for GMing regularly on your way to 5 stars before? Because now if you're an active GM you do, plus your bonus points for convention GMing. If you do 7+ slots at a major con, you get an ancestry boon's worth of points plus a free rebuild and three free resurrections. And if you don't want/need an uncommon ancestry you've got e.g. many lifetimes' worth of free resurrections.

At the end of the day this is one of the most generous programs we've ever had. The World Guide is a core assumption. Every weekly player gets enough points for a new ancestry over the course of the year and a twice-monthly GM who GMs a con can clear three. A highly active GM who runs weekly games and attends multiple cons might clear a year with 6 or more. And that'll apply to every GM, not just the ones who make it to GenCon or get lucky on an RSP roll.

Sry Michael this is just wrong. First there are no major conventions with the highest scaling in continental europe as of now, second there was a very big benefit of doing multiple smaller conventions in the old system that is no longer in the new system. (For example in 2018 I got over 12 race boons for running around 24 tables at conventions. Which is not possible in the new system)

So while I like the new system this is just not true as the system is massively worse for GMs attending multiple conventions (remember running 1 slot at a convention gets you an PF1/SFS race boon).
One upside I can see with the prices that an regular PLAYER gets enough ACP per season to get all his characters as raceboon characters if he does not purchase anything else (with an equivalentof 30 scenarios per season you gain 120 ACP from just playing everything -> and you will have mostly 1 "main" character per season as this puts the character into the "semi-retirenment" range of level 11+.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Lyoto Machida wrote:
Alexander Lenz wrote:
(as there is quite a bit GM shortage/domotiivation to GM PF2 over SFS)
May I ask why? Don't you get a chronicle sheet for the adventure to apply to your own character in both settings? So why would there be less interest? Is it harder to prepare Or is there just a lot of starfinder around your area? (Don't get me wrong, Starfinder is great, I'm just curious why there's less motivation for PF2E)

Most of the GMs have more interest in SF, and while they play PF2 they are not motivated to prep and GM scenarios for it.

Also there is a BIG aversion against running cold so if there are 7 players it is hard to convince them to prepare it beforehand (especially if they might not need it if there are no randoms showing up.)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:
That should give the GM the ability to properly slot a 6-player group into a "high end low subtier" scaling without having e.g. a party composed primarily of level 2 characters suddenly finding that they need to deal with level 5+ monsters.

That is a good start, but as a player I see a LOT of 7 player tables (as there is quite a bit GM shortage/domotiivation to GM PF2 over SFS) so addressing 7-player tables would alos be nice.

These tables work fine in "normal" encounters but they can fold in single enemy (mostly boss) encounters.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

ohako wrote:

I will try running the non-epic boss fight scenarios first, and then I'll try Salvation and then Waking Rune.

roll4initiative wrote:
Cult of Lissala]Cult of Lissala campaign arc
cool cool. Could you clue me in on which scenarios those are exactly? Thank you!

3-25 (only 3-7 and not needed per se but it is the opener in my opinion), 3-26 and then all of the Season 4 7-11 (in order)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Ferious Thune wrote:
Unfortunately, I think that generally removes the early access to the content. Paizo staff may be able to look at the books early, but the VOs can’t. So part of the process is delayed until the books are released, which slows the whole thing down.

There are ways for the AR-team to get earlier access to the books than the "normal" VOs and subscribers, how much earlier varies from book to book.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thurston Hillman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Multiple checks don't miss any: in PFS1 this was something that made me wonder if the writers failed statistics or just hate players. If there's any chance of missing a check requiring multiple checks dramatically increases the chance of failure.

Please avoid attacking our writers for their perceived competency or dubious morals.

My bad, thats a fair bit harsher than I intended.

While this is formulated harshly the statistical truth still stands, if you have to make three consecutive checks to achieve something, even if you can make the check on a 5 you still have nearly a 50% (0.8*0.8*0.8=.512=51,2% success chance).

NOT STARFINDER: There were some very, very bad cases with this in Pathfinder 1, especially if you encountered multiple enemies with a passive AOE-effect like Auras that made the encounter exponentially more difficult. For example in the lowtier the enemies were 3 mummies (3 DC 16 Will Saves to not be paralyzed) while in the hightier there were 8 (which lead to a lot of very nasty situations)
This example shows that repeating (or a lot/everyone must succeed) checks are statistically far more difficult even if the bar is set very low. Additionally these situations might work somewhat in lv 1-4 scenarios where untrained characters can roll but in higher level scenarios you can get an auto fail if you require everyone to roll (for example the party has 1 specialist).

I recently got a LOT of complaints from some of my players that computers is very harshly penalized in this way, as you have to do the same computers DC (except the few “here is the keycard/password reminder”) than the engineering check for the same result in a lot of cases, but for computers you often need to do 2 to 3 checks to get the same result you would have gotten with one engineering check.

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:
What's scary is pull up a pregen and try to make some of those DCs.

When I helped playtest scenarios, we used L1 pregen parties to see if they could at least survive and succeed at the primary success condition.

But I don't believe, really don't believe, that this is being done with higher level scenarios.

I think this is the most important part, if the pregens cannot succeed with a reasonable chance of success we will alienate players. Especially if you have weekly/biweekly tables even the newer players will play everything and will play pregens in the high subtiers, so they should not feel like dead weight.

A solution for this would be to balance the success rate (for primary/secondary mission relevant checks) for characters with average attributes (in the 12-14 range for 1-4, 14-16 in 5-9 and 16-18 in 10+) with full skill ranks (and maybe the Class skill bonus but not the Bonus you get from your class (as not everyone gets it) or skill focus (this should make you better and not be needed to keep up))
This is especially important as you can not guarantee everyone plays a class that gets a class bonus at all (soldier) or in the skills that are relevant for the mission.

If the check is just for flavor/background/foreshadowing/reducing avoiding (reasonable) damage you can do something that challenges the specialists to reward them.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

My solution is simple, after 2 or 3 encounters (halfway through the scenario) everyone gets a heropoint (this way everyone gets the point and there are no discussions about favoritism.)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

I am using a combination of a surface and printed out statblocks and it works.

For GM-screens, I think the new PF2 landscape screen is a godsend.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

What system are you looking for (PF1/PF2/SF)?

Additionally did you ask your local VO about supporting the event? The title of the event sounds very German(ish). (Especially bavarian)

Also what kind of event is it exactly?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Michael Sayre wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We really need to take care of that Cheliax problem.
Indeed.
Might be time to think big, the Society is bound to have a doomsday device or two they could loan for this purpose.
If we were a little more or a little less responsible, we'd find a ritual to drop the Blakros Museum directly on top of House Thrune and let a bunch of problems solve each other.

Even as someone who is not against cheliax I am for every solution to PERMANENTLY solve the museum situation.

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Well of the goblins I had at my table 2 were pyromanics that got an infamy warning during the session and one was a "mechanical character" so the race was choosen for purely mechanical reasons and did not come into play.

I still think it was a BIG mistake to make goblins player characters without a lot and well written in world reasons as to why they are no longer kill on sight. It does not help that my first contact with Goblins in Pathfinder was Rise of the Runelords 1 aka "Why we have to kill goblins".

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:
...then I seriously doubt it represents 1/4 of the community...

Auke, Nils, Benoit, Dave are 4 RVCs that are (mostly) active in europe, exactly 1/4th of the available RVCs and so at least 4 RVCs would have to work exclusively on exceptions for their premium conventions.

Quote:
Sorry, just saying let's try to stick to verifiable numbers.

The three biggest events in continental europe I have numbers of (I do not have conctact to the French so there might be one convention I am missing) AB-Con, Confusion and Gardencon all have less than 75 tables.

So if for your region 5-6 events meet the criteria how about a rule like "The biggest 5 (or 6) events in an RVCs region + events specifically chosen by the RVC to promote organized play are premium conventions"

This is just a quick and dirty suggestion as I have no access to the numbers of the other RVCs.

Quote:
Ask me again next year and I may be able to tell you precisely which events ranking high in tables counts.

While this might be interesting this still creates a big problem for the smaller regions as they will never get to these big table counts.

It might be also the case that in europe there is a differenct convention culture. I am helping in organizing the one of the 4 big RPG-conventions in Germany and we have around 1500 Attendants, with quite a lot of them being there for tabletops and not RPGs, so if we get 100 to organized play (which has also competition by the organized play for DSA, which is a quite big RPG in Germany) we are quite lucky.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:
If we simply leave it at RVC discretion, there will be a lot of questions as to what parameters they are using to determine which event gets designated and which doesn't. In more than one discussion I was involved in the subject of tier 1 came up as a possible toggle for premier status.

How many of these came form persons out of high density areas (like America)?

As I asked eralier how many (non premium+ (so paizoconUK and UK-Games Expo) 75+ table conventions are there in Europe (which is now the sphere of 4? RVCs)

So you want an whole continent to work on a "exception" basis? Maybe just use a rule that also fits for at least 1/4th of the system.

Quote:
I gave you the answer-talk to your RVC about it.

I did.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

So to put it in friendlier words:
Please consider that there is currently no 75+ table convention in the whole of continental europe and that means all of continental europe will have only one speed to get ACP as there is also no premium+ convention there.

So if this gets implemented as you suggested you tell all players in continetal europe that there is no difference (regarding ACP) between going to a convention or GMing for your buddies at home.

You can also look at James Hargraves post who is raising similar concerns.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:
...and don't be surprised if they don't have an immediate answer as we are still figuring out exactly how the new system will work. Tonya is still traveling quite a bit which makes communication slower.

So why are these things not decided BEFORE a system launches? It is not that PF2s release happened outr of nowehre.

And are these numbers you told us final or are they a work in progress?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:
Please don't shoot the messenger*.

Thanks for completely ignoring the raised concerns bob.

Quote:
If you want to be involved in the community and give back to all the awesome GMs who run for you, by running games for others, great, go to a convention and earn a trunk-load of AcP in a few short days.

How do I do that?

1.) As I wrote earlier there is NO convention that qualifies under this system.
2.) I get more ACP for running 2 tables in the time it takes me to drive to a con and gm 1 table there (if I look for the next premium + convention there is still no relation between effort needed and output in ACP.

Quote:
Rewards/boons are icing on the cake and shouldn't be the end-all, be-all, of the reason someone attends an event. Some will disagree with me and that's fine.

As someone who has to do conventions (with less than 75 tables) I will have no incentive for my GMs to show up.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:

Premier conventions are spotlight events probably at the tier 1 (75+ tables) level. In addition to more vouchers, the value of the AcP goes up per the Guide. As I understand it, these events must be designated by the RVC and approved by Tonya. As the Premier Event Coordinator, I may be involved in that approval process and will be working with Tonya and the event organizer to make sure the event is classified correctly so the participants receive the correct AcP values. AFAIK the Paizo system will have to be manually notified about these events so it can trigger the higher rate of AcP. Generally, 1-2 Paizo staff members will be present at these events.

Premier Plus conventions are significant spotlight events that generally include direct sponsorship from Paizo. Currently, this includes Gen Con, PaizoCon (US), Origins, Pax Unplugged, and UK Games Expo. These events receive an even higher AcP value (see the Guide) as well as perks such as volunteer t-shirts, physical product support, and other bonuses. Numerous Paizo staffs generally attend these events.

Bob please list me the number of events in the last 5 years in continental europe that would quailfy as a premium event. This aproach is b+&%~&@*, as it encoureages something I would be happy to get rid off: Cheesing your tablecount upwards. And there are a lot of ways that can be used to inflate your table count.

So the "benefit" of the system that events get more ACP will not be available on a continent because the limits are stupidly high. Additionally with the boons being retracted to the ACP system there is literally no incentive left for anyone to GM at a normal convention as they get the same number of ACPs (read: boons) as if they would run the game non publicly in their cellar for their friends. So I strongly recommend to not limit premium above anything that was not already a convention becasue if not this will lead to a lot of conventions dying becasue there is no incentive to GM on a convention.

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For the area B5 encounter, what is the savebonus of Tavvar and her aides?

Dark Archive

And where is the guide for organized play?

Or a functioning link to the pregens?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

@BigNorseWolf: There are some scenarios where you do not get a specific item the boss was usiing on the chronicle if they manage for flee (mostly semicharged wands) but you still get full GPs for the encounter. (You might not fulfill part of the secondary sucess conditions if that happens)
But even then this is more of a rare case and beating the boss so he flees will give the same rewards than killing him most of the time (and if not it is specifically written in the scenario -> For Example: If BigBad manages to escape cross the wand of greater Invis (4 charges) and the wand of dimension door (1 charge) from the chronicle)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Regarding the "Scaling Encounter A" sidebar, does gunnery count as skill check? (As gunnery can also be a BAB+Dex check)

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Quote:

Pathfinder Society members might recognize her as a slightly less windswept Janira Gavix.

How did she get rid of her shadow corruption?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Quote:


Have: Alien Associates
Free Agent x 2
Inside Manufacturer
Hauler Bot
Emergency Resupply x 2
Society Rebuilder
Free Captains
Manifold Host (Minor Faction)
Second Seekers Roheas (Minor Faction)
Damai/Quorlu/Vertani
Formian/Ikeshti
Draelik/Witchwyrd

Want: Uplifted Bear

PM sent

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

My advice is talk about the great T-Rex chase (from the season 6 adventure) with the players before unning this scenario: They will immediately know what to do and not even think about challanging this poor helpless little creature. It worked when I played and both times I gmed it.

The only "downside" is that the final fight is completely and utterly underwhelming for the buildup.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

@Lau:

I can see your argument but if I think this argument trough it gets WIERD:
So you can not repair a broken gun as long it has no damage.

So you misfire, then hit your gun with something that can only deal between 1 and HP of the gun -1 damage and then the mending works?

This does seem quite wrong, that a spell can not fix a problem but would be able to fix it once you have added another problem.

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"Slim can you activate my CLW wand?"

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@Silbeg:

I think I need one page to upload my monster stats agian. (As the old one is no longer visible)

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I will be limited in posting tomorrow as I will be GMing at B-Con.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Well against loaded dice you can (and I have) let players roll with YOUR dice. I had to do it once during a game and I require it when rolling for the 10% chance at a boon at conventions or RSP tables and the numbers got FAR closer to 10% than before that change.

With the deck there NEEDS to be a way to check for cheating (full list of all cards and effects) as operating on a honor system requires a way to check if something is correct. (Audits exist for a reason)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

@Arc:
I had the mess up quite a lot in ACG. It was not intended but as we have 2 base games at one of our locations I was shocked when I tried to take one to a convention and it took me around 4 hours to make sure both base games (Skull and shackles/Mummys mask) were seperated again.

So I know involuntary mishaps can happen and I know for a fact at least 2 players who I would fully expect to have only a 40 card crit deck (with the "bad" ones missing) or to by 2 decks and double up on the "best" cards. So trust is good but we NEED a way to control it.

But I am very against the idea of including the critical deck into organized play as it will cause balancing concerns and will be most likely a logistical nightmare to use, especially if the full rules are not available to everyone.

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"I am fine at the moment, but thanks for the offer. If you find something I can most likely identify it without any problems."

Elric can take ten for a 41 spellcraft to identify magic items.

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"Well do we finally get some action?" Elric says while looking from where the sound of the Explosion came.

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It might be the local metagame but all our powergames seem to have no problems in spaceship combat:

It helps tremendously that our local meta depends largely on unsing Longarms on everyone but the operative so everyone can at least be a decent gunner as they will have maxxed or near maxxed DEX. It also "helps" that the class most players view as the "strongest", the operative, has to actively try to be bad in spaceshipcombat as most operatives will have DEX maxxed and most of them will also have ranks in engeneering and computers.

But after a game with newer players yesterday I completely agree that a "starhip" part of a character and/or pregensheet would help a lot with explaining what to roll and especially where to find it.

Quote:
Thursty, have you though about changing scenario design so that starship combat might be the best option but not the only option for the players. (Starship encounters seem to take less then a page of space so scenario word count wouldn't be a big issue).

Please do NOT do this, this will not only mess up the slot time most of the time but it will also lead to toxic discussions between the players who like Starship combat (and might have invested quite a bit into it) and those who hate it.

Additionally as a GM those "choose 1 of 2 encounters tend to be double the work for next to no benefit.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

I have to say the starshipcombat difficulty is ... wierd. There are some encounters, especially yeasteryears truth, which gave the system a VERY VERY bad reputation (we called it after around 3 hours and 11 killed drones).

Most spaceship combats work out rater well in the region but we are VERY clear to all level 1 characters: What does your character do in spaceship combat and what does he do if that role is already taken (and captain is not a role (see below)).

It helps that we have a very DEX based meta so everyone can at least be the secondary/tertiary gunner and with a LOT of 4-Player tables the usual setup is: Pilot (neccessary), 1st Gunner (neccessary), Second Gunner (Better than all alternatives) and the engeneer doubling as science officer for the first turns till the scans are done.

One problem is the ammount of stuff you can do in spaceship combat:
The pilot has to make meaningfull decissions every turn and has the most important roll in the combat (initiative)
The gunner can shoot (and roll crits)
The engeneer will almost always want to repait the shields or patch up crits in relevant systems.

The 2 problem children are the science officer and the captain (especially before level 6):
The science officer can scan (very important but doen after 3-4 rounds) and redistribute shields (helpfull but not always needed)
The captain has the least ammount of decission as he has 1 taunt per combat and after that he is just another mk2 mononode computer that can sometimes fail to work. I have seen a FEW captains go completely afk as they had nothing to do.

The best spaceship encounters were the encounters where either the setup was great (cries form the drift) or you fight against multiple ships and do not get into a routine as fast (Dead Suns 5)
The big problem is that some classes are just BAD in spaceshipcombat (solarian/meele soldier/Mystic/STR Vangaurd) and even with investment they will be at most passable. Trough SFSs nature another problem is that even if you can do one role great that role might be taken by another player so everyone with not much DEX or INT will be hosed sometimes (As with DEX you can be pilot and gunner (and yes I see the piloting skilltax as real) and INT can do the other 2 jobs reasonably well.
And the Boon for WIS/mysticism to gunnery is NOT distributed widely enough to matter in that calculation (Maybe if it were a buyable factionless boon in the guide (that can be bought at level 1))

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For me the archetype has the very big problem of being dippable: For a 1 level dip you get:
->Dancers Grace for +1 AC if you are unarmored (possibly the least important for a dip)
-> Graceful Warrior (Weapon finesse as a Bonus feat and access to 3 new weapons to use it with, two of which have reach, one of them is by far the best x4 crit weapon to finesse and the katana is a straight upgrade to the rapier which is one of the premiere finesse options.) This alone makes this archetype highly problematic as it opens up options for Dex-based martials that are not that welcome in the campaign (see the bladed brush discussions).
->Skirmishers Challenge (Like challenge but a strict downgrade as it is worse if you fullattack, which is not that big of a deal in a dip but if you fully commit to the class it is a fair downside.)
->Order: The benefit of this is variable depending on the order and not limited to the archetype.
->Martial Weapon Proficiency + some exotic weapons, which are also boosted by the archetype.
-> 1 Flourish: This is the big elephant in the room:
Exodus of Jinin: No problem here, comparable abilities are easily available.
Harmony of the Tranquil Garden: Blindsense is not an ablility that should be freely available to 1st level characters.
Kitsune’s Mystique: This gives a useful feat and also boosts it with additional utility. This also messes a lot with action economy and can be used to (for example) set up sneak attack in places where it previously was not possible.
Petals on the Wind: NO, just NO. This has quite a bit of abuse potential if you have Combat reflexes, which is not that weird considering the kind of build this archetype encourages. This not only does you allow to take multiple non provoking “5ft-steps” out of your turn, this also can be used to ignore the penalty of reach weapons to have a “blind spot” area. (On a class that is highly encouraged to abuse reach weapons). If this would be made legal I would retrain at least one of my AoO based characters just to be able to use this ability. (It is a bloodrager who most of the time has around 15-25ft reach, which would make him massively mobile if this would be added.)
Additionally the interaction of this ability and difficult terrain/flying as well as the prevention of the triggering action itself (especially charges in areas with corners) is highly unclear.
Wrath of the Heavens: A level 4 feat with 3 prerequisites (2 of which are a feat tax) available at level 1 is wrong. If you are an archer and want this feat most of the time dipping the warrior poet is easier than taking the feats to qualify.

So the Archetype might be fine if taken single classed (But I still think Petals on the wind should be banned and Graceful Warrior should not unlock the additional weapons for finessability) it is too problematic if it is dipped, as the level 1 flourishes have some options that are too strong for some other classes to use.

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Quote:
I've seen PFS Legal archetypes get completely broken.

This does not mean that new problematic stuff should be added in. I personally see a big problem for the archetype in petal on the winds and its possible rammifications especially with creative use of "foe". But I do not know why it was banned but I can see this, or the fact that this archetype is one of the best dips for certain builds, as a reason for it.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

@Dr Cupi:
Do you mean the example characters?
What should they build if they want to be full casters? Maximum casting stat+3 relevant casting feats? What else CAN they take to be better casters?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Ok, to start off with: Yes I was wrong, the formula I used for weapon damage had a * instead of a + so there were some mistakes. Thanks Ade, AtlasSniperman and Blake´s Tiger for pointing that out.

But I will post the math here again (while not being sleepy) and include the way I got there so if there are any more mistakes we can pinpoint them.

Warning LOTS of Mathy Stuff:

Spoiler:

DPR Shooting:
21*12/20+42*1/20=14.7 (Hitting on a 8 will mean, that you have 12/20 chance to deal your average 21 damage and a 1/20 chance to deal 42)

DPR Fullattack:
(21*8/20+42*1/20)*2=21 (Same formula as above but you hit 4 worse but have 2 Shots)

DPR Mind Thrust 4:

DC: 21 (10 (Base)+6 (Wisdom) + 1 Spellfocus + 4 (Spellevel)
Will +9 (Enemy Combatant), makes its save on a 12.
55*11/20+55/2*9/20=42.625 (55 Damage if you do full damage, half that if the enemy makes the save.

DPR Mind Thrust 3:

DC: 20 (10 (Base)+6 (Wisdom) + 1 Spellfocus + 3 (Spellevel)
Will +9 (Enemy Combatant), makes its save on a 11.
38.5*10/20+38.5/2*10/20=28.875 (38.5 Damage if you do full damage, half that if the enemy makes the save.

DPR Mind Thrust 2:

DC: 19 (10 (Base)+6 (Wisdom) + 1 Spellfocus + 2 (Spellevel)
Will +9 (Enemy Combatant), makes its save on a 10.
22*9/20+22/2*11/20=15.95 (22 Damage if you do full damage, half that if the enemy makes the save.

Corrected Numbers:

Single Shot: 14.7 Damage
Fulltattack: 21 Damage
Mind Thrust 4: 42.625 Damage
Mind Thrust 3: 28.875 Damage
Mind Thrust 2: 15.95 Damage
This leads to a slight shift in the results as a Mind Thrust 4 and a Mind Thrust 3 now deals more damage than a Fullattack. This means (if you spend ALL your spells on mind thrust) you have 7 turns of combat in which you can do more damage than if you would shoot. This is still too few turns per day AND you sacrifice any utility you would gain from spells if you do this.
Also these numbers are comparing a longarm with less than the most damage with the only viable damage spell (excluding Magic Missile). If this was a comparison to the technomancer instead of the mystic it would seem FAR worse as the technomancer is severly lacking in single target spells.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

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The point is that in our area the only ones using small arms are operatives, everyone else is getting longarm acess as smallarms do no damage.

At level 10 you will most likely have a 2d10 (average 21 damage)Energy weapon. This deals as much damage per shot (fullattacks are a good option if you get even 1 debuff on the enemy)
Additionally the enemy saves seem to scale better than the AC so you will get your mind thrust damage halved more often than not.
For example a CR 10 Combatant (which is not the boss but part of an encoutner most of the time):

Both characters are assumed to have 20 or 22 in the main attribute (Dex/Wis -> a lot of players seem to favor Dex over their casting stat on their second caster), the "shooter" has Longarm Proficiency, versatile specialisation and weapon focus (longarm).

The caster has Spell focus and (for the ease of math) Spell penetration and Greater spell Penetration which lets him (for this example) ignore Spell resistance. The weapon I used is the LFD sonic rifle, a weapon which will rarely be resisted but there will be stronger options if you just want the damage.
You hit him on a (EAC 23) with a 7 (BAB)+ 2(weapon Focus) + 5/6 (Dex) so a 8 or 9, in most parties on a 6 or 7 as the enemy will be flatfooted by the operative or envoy. This will lead to a DPR (against not flatfooted) of 24.255 if you single attack or 30.87 for a fulltattack. (You will get problems with one type of energy resistance)

Compared to that the Mind Thrust will have a DC of: 10 (Base) + 5/6 (Wisdom) + 1 Spellfocus + 2/3/4 (Spellevel). This leads to a maximum DC of 21/20/19. This leads to an average damage of Mt4 (38.5 Slightly higher than a fulltattack), Mt3 (25.98 LESS than a fulltack), Mt2 (14.3 Less than even a single attack.) And you will be completely useless against anything immune to mind affecting damage.
And this is the best case for your mystic as the combatant is the enemy array with the lowest will save. So the spells are mostly used to finish of enemies that just need to be hit (As the have (barring immunities) no way to deal no damage.)
But as you see even the second highest level spell is worse than just attacking with a weapon.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

I played with and Gmed for "casters" in Starfinder and SFS up to level 9 and excluding level 1 they felt very... disapointing. In nearly every siutuation they were better while using their guns (mostly longarms as time progressed) and spells were only used rarely.

A big problem is that only your highest (maybe second highest) level of spell is relevant damagewise.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

My hope would be a REAL caster (That can be played just with casting and not needing weapons.)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

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While I like the prize table approach I think ifd you sacrifice permanent (race) boons you should get a permanent benefit in PF2.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

Also I think Starfinder has it VERY well compared to Pathfinder where the AR took 9 Months in the last batch (looking at potions and poisions)

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

I am happy that the only case I have seen this were 2 times a wildshaped PC offered to serve as a mount (out of combat) and no player in the group was interested in abusing mounted combat rules so it did not devolve into this. (The biggest reason for this is that most players do not know the rules for mounted combat and noone will want to learn them on the fly)

If you think this far enough this can lead to some insane builds but there is little in the rules to prevent it (for bipedal mounts) and none for wildshaped/polymorphed PCs.(Which can be as bad or even worse than bipedals)

I would prefer if a solution like Bobs suggestion (PCs can not be mounts) would be added to the FAQ but at the moment there is not that much support for a ban.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

The bigger problem is WBL:

I know a LOT of players who would gladly play additonal scenarios per level to gain more gold.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

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Bob at least here in Europe some conventions you would call "small" are also the only cons in the nation where specials CAN be offered. So even "small" events lead to long distance travel if you look outside of the US. For our big convention we have regulary players from multiple countries as this is one of the very few events that can offer specials in continental Europe.

And the Gencon boons are causing a bad divide between the communities because if you happen to live on one of the other 6 continents your chance of getting one without going to spend a 4-Digit ammount is miniscule.

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