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...cornball explanations like "i drop my backpack as a free action before every fight..."Do you not feel that characters should be allowed to drop their backpacks?
In the Army, our backpacks had quick releases specifically to be able to drop them at the beginning of a fight.
That said, in Pathfinder, you may never recover something you drop. Watch out!
Just for the tallies, I track encumbrance carefully, both for my STR 7 sorceress and my STR 24 samurai. (I just occasionally carry other people on my samurai.)
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Thank youI missed the actual ruling against electronic character sheets can someone link it please? That is going to cause quite a lot of angst at the FLGS.LINK
I believe my personal solution for this will be to keep a blank character sheet in a plastic sleeve and use a wet erase marker to copy my character details off my tablet if a GM requires it. Though more likely I'd just walk away from the table.
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One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.
Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.
Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.
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One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.
Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.
Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.
The weight's not just doubled though is it? The spell description says "[t]his spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8." Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?
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Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?
No. Those two statements are kept apart by the entire length of the spell description in a completely separate paragraph. The paragraph that starts off a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell details what the changes do to the equipment.
We don't have rules for the weight making a medium creature large. We do have have rules for large equipment though. It would be kind of odd if a large greatsword that the character picked up weighed 1/4 of what what the greatsword he was carrying when he got transformed did.
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The weight's not just doubled though is it? The spell description says "[t]his spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8." Since "[a]ll equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" then presumably the weight of the gear is multiplied by 8 as well, right?
One place where the rule is abused is Enlarge Person. You get +2 Strength, but this rarely offsets the doubling in weight of armour, weapons and gear. Most people do not recalculate and keep their same load level.
Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.
Double the weight and make yourself large and you're still ahead.
The being has their weight multiplied by 8, gear goes up to the next size category which already have defined weights.
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Wow, this is really interesting. I'd never noticed this trap in Enlarge Person before. I just ran these numbers, testing with the character I'm readying for a game tomorrow. Normally, her applicable stats look like this:
Size Medium: 5'4" tall and weighs 140 pounds
Strength 11
Carrying 40 pounds of gear, Light Load
If someone cast Enlarge Person on her, that becomes:
Size Large: 10'8" tall and weighs 1,120 pounds
Strength 13
Carrying 320 pounds of gear
Taking the x2 for Large creatures BigNorseWolf pointed out into account, with her new strength of 13 her maximum weight carried is 300 pounds. So, what happens?
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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My standard practice:
- if I have a lot of Strength and not a lot of gear I don't calculate encumbrance.
- if I have mediocre or bad Strength I will assume I'm encumbered until I get around to buying a Handy Haversack, which I'll do at the earliest opportunity.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and check what´s actually in that handy haversack. Just to find some unsheathed daggers or similar stuff next to things that don´t really fit in there or would destroy it....:D
Swords and whatnot come with the appropriate sheath, its one of the reasons the weapon weights are absurdly heavy for something you could swing without getting a hernia.
Cost: This value is the weapon's cost in gold pieces (gp) or silver pieces (sp). The cost includes miscellaneous gear that goes with the weapon, such as a scabbard or quiver.
This is why I'm really wary of DMs who play "Godtcha!" to mess up players. Chances are pretty good there's another rule somewhere that stops something really bad from happening.
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Wow, this is really interesting. I'd never noticed this trap in Enlarge Person before. I just ran these numbers, testing with the character I'm readying for a game tomorrow. Normally, her applicable stats look like this:
Size Medium: 5'4" tall and weighs 140 pounds
Strength 11
Carrying 40 pounds of gear, Light LoadIf someone cast Enlarge Person on her, that becomes:
Size Large: 10'8" tall and weighs 1,120 pounds
Strength 13
Carrying 320 pounds of gearTaking the x2 for Large creatures BigNorseWolf pointed out into account, with her new strength of 13 her maximum weight carried is 300 pounds. So, what happens?
Her gear almost certainly doesn't become 320 pounds in weight. Probably closer to 80 pounds, which is probably still going to be light encumbrance, given the doubling for Large size.
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I track the encumbrance of my characters. And I agree it´s a balancing issue.
And, in my Area, our V.O. has checked once the encumbrance of some characters. We having been told of this check beforehand, and he refuse to check the encumbrance of my 18 ST character in heavy armor, and checked the low strengh characters. It results in our gunslinger having to left back a melee weapon or two, because he can´t carry all the stuff and continue being in light load.
I assume this was done because is not uncommon to drop strenght, but then pick every item you want except a handy haversack to be able to carry all.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and check what´s actually in that handy haversack. Just to find some unsheathed daggers or similar stuff next to things that don´t really fit in there or would destroy it....:D
Swords and whatnot come with the appropriate sheath, its one of the reasons the weapon weights are absurdly heavy for something you could swing without getting a hernia.
Cost: This value is the weapon's cost in gold pieces (gp) or silver pieces (sp). The cost includes miscellaneous gear that goes with the weapon, such as a scabbard or quiver.
This is why I'm really wary of DMs who play "Godtcha!" to mess up players. Chances are pretty good there's another rule somewhere that stops something really bad from happening.
I would definately point this out, but never ever note down the item destroyed. It´more of a joke. As a GM i´m very forgiving on players making mistakes and actually i expect the same when i play more or less.
Having fun together is a clear focus in this game and PFS and should never be forgotten.|
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I am very meticulous in keeping up with my encumbrance(well, unless I am a dwarf) and it's effects and I will spot check players at my table if I notice they have a lot of gear or a low strength. Hero Lab is great for that.
I also will check on folks who use Handy Haversacks because it is amazing how often you will see people with hundreds of pounds of gear stuffed into one. Also folks who forget that regular bags of holding are pretty weighty on their own.
But then I also insist on keeping track of consumables and ammunition. It's all forms of checks and balances.
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Bison (50 gp, animal archive) + Heavy Wagon (100 gp, ultimate combat). 4000 lbs of gear you don't need to worry about. Granted, a bit difficult to take along into a narrow dungeon.
Solution:
A herd of mules (8 gp, CRB) with pack saddle (5 gp, CRB), each mule carries up to 100 lbs at light load with a speed of 40 ft., or up to 200 pounds with a speed of 30 ft.
While it may take a lot more time to get to equipment in combat, it'll make carrying adventuring gear and loot a lot easier. Feed is cheap at 5 copper per day. Just make sure you keep your combat gear in your handy haversack (potions, wands, scrolls, alchemical remedies, etc) and all the heavy adventuring gear on the mules (collapsible planks, folding ladders, folding poles, tents, climbing kits, etc)
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Bison (50 gp, animal archive) + Heavy Wagon (100 gp, ultimate combat). 4000 lbs of gear you don't need to worry about. Granted, a bit difficult to take along into a narrow dungeon.
Solution:
A herd of mules (8 gp, CRB) with pack saddle (5 gp, CRB), each mule carries up to 100 lbs at light load with a speed of 40 ft., or up to 200 pounds with a speed of 30 ft.While it may take a lot more time to get to equipment in combat, it'll make carrying adventuring gear and loot a lot easier. Feed is cheap at 5 copper per day. Just make sure you keep your combat gear in your handy haversack (potions, wands, scrolls, alchemical remedies, etc) and all the heavy adventuring gear on the mules (collapsible planks, folding ladders, folding poles, tents, climbing kits, etc)
Reminds me of something, spoilering to avoid derailing.
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Also - if you do go with a 'Light Infantry PC' and dump your strength, just take the trait that makes your strength count as 2 points higher for encumbrance. (Dumping strength is pretty viable now for swashbucklers etc) Of course - monks don't really need to worry about encumbrance as much even with dumped strength. (Also viable -optimal even- if you AP/GM credit them up to the point where they can get a 4,000 gp item. You don't want to have to actually play with that negative to damage. :P)
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I like you Nefreet. I really do. But hasn't your insistence that everyone keep their character records your way already caused enough trouble on these forums?I'd like to point out I wasn't the one asking for that ruling.
I'm not even in favor of it.
I didn't even participate in the thread that resulted in that ruling.
Other ppl, dating back two years or more, were the ones asking for "no tech".
My opposition was purely to using the HeroLab program at the table.
And, for the fifth time now, I have no problem with ppl using a HeroLab character sheet (or whatever tracking sheet they'd like to use).
I realize this got blown up on the forums (and even on Facebook), and a lot of ppl have been scapegoating me for it, but this ruling wasn't my doing.
I believe you made your views very clear, and frankly I have no problem with your decisions on that subject (I might still want to use a printed hero lab character sheet in conjunction with the software - if they get of their backsides and offer an android version - to track buffs in high level games) and I don't think that your posts were the reason for that particular decision.
That particular issue has been simering for a long time, and would have errupted once someone posts "my GM broke my tablet because he wanted to audit my character... since he didn't trust
me......" I am not that happy with the decision, but I can understand it, forcing GMs to accept and deal with the devices would have been an impossible ruling.
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Regarding encumberance, frankly I let Hero Lab track most of it. It only really matters with low strength characters, and frankly I think that is were people start to calculate their exact encumberance. A kensei magus with 5-7 Strength is really asking for it, especially since their AC drops to the nether regions until they can drop their backpacks and enter combat.
Funny fact, I checked the equipment of our iconic shaman with Hero Lab (to lazy to do it by hand) and our Strength 7 full plate wearing badass .... can't move. She is about 5 pounds over high encumberance, which would no problem since thoese penalties match her armor check penalty. Well I guess she tends to drag her backpack behind her most of the time ^^
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Funny fact, I checked the equipment of our iconic shaman with Hero Lab (to lazy to do it by hand) and our Strength 7 full plate wearing badass .... can't move. She is about 5 pounds over high encumberance, which would no problem since thoese penalties match her armor check penalty. Well I guess she tends to drag her backpack behind her most of the time ^^
She's a Dwarf.
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The other option is to use Muleback Chords. Though it replaces the slot most have for Cloak of Resistance.
Muleback Chords make your STR 8 higher for only carrying weight. It is only 1,000 gold. But it is ONLY for carrying weight. I bought it for my 11 STR, Undine Cleric.
Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, page 171.
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I have several low-Strength characters.While I should track encumbrance I never do unless it's a strange build. 18 str builds simply can carry more than you'd ever realistically need to carry. My wizard 7str carries less than 10 pounds on him.
He then basically called me a chump for tracking encumbrance. He said that no GM ever tracks encumbrance. Is this true, that no one else tracks encumbrance? And isn't it the players' responsibility to track that?The thing is the only builds I can see ever actually not being within capacity are dex builds. Everything else doesn't get tracked because it's simply too little to matter. The full armor builds tend to be dwarfs or have 18 str which makes things simple.
Since you don't track capacity, how would you actually know that? I track capacity on all my characters and I can say equivocally that the only ones who don't have to worry about capacity are the Strength builds. And the little things can add up quickly. Want a Cloak of Resistance? That's a pound. A Headband of Intellect? Another pound. It doesn't take long before even a Wizard is carrying more than 10 lbs.
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My 5 strength gnome sorcerer has muleback cords. Before that even carrying a dagger as a weapon was questionable. I even sold my Magic Cloak to get it. Wish I could find a Vest of Resistance ala v3.5.
One of these days I plan an audit as a GM, but only bother on those who can move 30' (or 20' for wee folk). The guys I game with are low level so probably ok at this point, but it will at least start keeping it in the back of their minds before they start making major purchases.
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Pfs is a fun game to be played in a limited timeframe. I've never asked players about encumbrance. To me it's one of the not fun bookkeeping aspects of the game, like appraising and selling loot. I assume it's taken care of off screen and ignore it. As a player, I pretty much ignore it except on the one character I have with low strength that wears armor. If you're playing a character where they're going to be close to or over encumbered, like a str7 gunslinger, you better track it, if you aren't going to be close, don't bother.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I think the encumbrance game rules are way to, well, cumbersome.
I totally think we should have some kind of system in place. It's one of the balancing points on dumping strength. And the amount of gear you can bring with you is just one of the limited resources you play with, that's IMO also part of an adventurer. To be prepared for everything means overspending on consumables and overloading on gear. So you have to pick some things not to be ready for (for now). I think those choices are part of the game.
But without some sort of automated calculation (spreadsheet, herolab) the system is just too much work.
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Anyway, I find that 10-12 Str characters are medium encumbered quite quickly. Armor, weapons, a few flasks of acid and a tanglefoot bag and you're there.
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I'll admit to not always keeping my encumbrance updated. But I do pay attention to it and spend resources to help improve it. All of my low str Dex build characters invest in mithral armor. I'll usually have a masterwork backpack until I can afford a handy haversack. When you have a strength under 10 (I only have one character with an 8, a gnome), things add up quickly. Even a handy haversack is not something you can ignore the weight of. It's also important to keep track of what is in the handy haversack and what isn't. Yes, when you own one you can carry a lot more, but anything in the haversack will be a move action to retrieve, so spare weapons, etc. can't be drawn as part of a move and things like that.
Strangely, my highest strength character (a 20 STR Monk) carries the least equipment of any of them.
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Honestly, it isn't even that good for them. The Domain ability starts out good at +1 but only goes to +2 at 5th and +3 at 10th. That's pretty slow progression for a fairly key item.Protection domain clerics.Fair enough. So - muleback chords are great for low strength protection domain clerics... and nobody else. :P
In PFS levels - would that ever be more than a point or so behind anyone else? I don't see any 4th level characters with +2 cloaks, though they might get a +3 by 8 or 9, and maybe a +4 by 12. But in the cases of being better than the cleric - that'd be a pretty significant part of their wealth. Gold the protection domain cleric can put into other stuff. I'm not saying the cleric's saves will be better than the norm past the 1st couple levels - but it keeps up fine and saves the cleric a bunch of gold and an item slot.