RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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This feat is awesome and whoever wrote it should feel good.
I have a friend playing a "improvised weapons and breaking things" barbarian in Skull&Shackles and now he's probably going to pick up Champions of Corruption just for the feat section.
Also I now want to make my summoner whose eidolon is the Kool-Aid man even more. OH YEAH!
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Summoning the KAM is a great idea. I also have fond memories of the Schlitz Malt Liquor Bull.
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*Knock Knock*
"Who's there?"
"Kung..."
"Kung who?"
*Door explodes into jagged chunks and splinters as your character enters.*
"... Kung FU!!!"
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Other than the obvious RAW problems with making yourself stunned or shaken my big question about this feat is whether it does anything at all if there isn’t a surprise round. It says that “all characters within 20 feet of your entry point must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + your base attack bonus) or be stunned instead of acting in the surprise round (if there is one) plus 1 round thereafter”. If it just said “in the surprise round plus 1 round thereafter” it would seem clear to me that this feat only works in a surprise round. The parenthetical statement “(if there is one)” kind of makes me wonder though.
I happen to be playing a mythic Viking with a pretty high Stealth, so if this is available in that game and I can manage to fit it into his feat plan it might be a fun addition. He’s already known for his propensity to leap out from hiding and scare people with intimidate. Bashing through a door or wall with his adamantine shield and stunning folks would be great.
Or there's the piercing that gives you a permanent +5 on Intimidate checks for 3,700 gp.What’s that called? I can think of a couple PCs who need it. Do you see a mechanical problem with this, or do you just not care for the flavor? +5 skill items are usually 2,500gp, so you’re actually paying 50% extra here. That’s still a 25% discount off the expected price if the item is slotless. Otherwise it is kind of expensive.
@Ser Clay - I wouldn’t put money on getting FAQ or errata for something fringe like this. Honestly I could almost imagine forcing the Kool-Aid Man to make a save vs being stunned since he just smashed through a wall. It is being shaken if you fail the save which is obviously flat out wrong to me. “Oh no! I’m scared of my own strength!”
look at it this way:
guards inside a room hear the PCs approach. They signal to each other, draw their weapons, and stand ready to attack whomever opens the door.
And then the door explodes in...
Yet again, I expect competen guards to stay away from a door they suspect the enemies are coming through, maybe pointing crossbows towards the entrance
I'm not trying to say that the feat "shouldn't" function except in a surprise round. I'm just wondering how it is supposed to work. The parenthetical "if there is one" makes it seem like maybe the feat is supposed to work even if there isn't a surprise round. That would be nice since PCs who like to break down doors aren't always great at Stealth.
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Even if you expect the guards to be hiding elsewhere in the room, it doesn't help when the barbarian crashes through the wall behind them.
Even still, I would be pretty dang shocked if someone rocked their way through a door, ready to shoot or not. Perhaps the guards in a fantasy world are more used to it than us, but that's a pretty impressive feat.
You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.Stun?
Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?
Burst through a wall... or broke a window.
Stun is a pretty massive effect plus Shaken on top of it. At least make it Dazed where they can defend themselves... seems like a ridiculous feat to me - and achievable at 5th level no less, whereas Stunning Assault/Stunning Critical is available, at the earliest, at 16th-17th level.
Agreed. This is waaaaaaay too good for such a low-level ability.
Even if you expect the guards to be hiding elsewhere in the room, it doesn't help when the barbarian crashes through the wall behind them.
Even still, I would be pretty dang shocked if someone rocked their way through a door, ready to shoot or not. Perhaps the guards in a fantasy world are more used to it than us, but that's a pretty impressive feat.
there is that guy that cause magic to cease by hitting it really hard
so why not? ^^
need to find strength DC for breaking through a wall though!
iirc there's actually wall material (wood stone metal etc.) hardness/hp in the CRB. cant remember whether it's under strength check examples, the sunder explanation, or the object hardness section though.
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Why does everyone think it's an editing mistake that the feat user could stun his allies and himself? It's a feat in a book for evil characters. Evil characters don't tend to take their allies well being into the equation. And busting through something is dangerous. It's quite possible to knock yourself silly doing it.
And possibly stunning yourself and allies looks like a balancing factor as well. Otherwise access to stun at 5th level could be a bit unbalanced.
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And possibly stunning yourself and allies looks like a balancing factor as well. Otherwise access to stun at 5th level could be a bit unbalanced.
tell that to the level 1 color spray wizard.
And possibly stunning yourself and allies looks like a balancing factor as well. Otherwise access to stun at 5th level could be a bit unbalanced.tell that to the level 1 color spray wizard.
Gladly, because Color Spray is stupid powerful for a level 1 spell.
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It'd be nice if it included the caveat that "only characters on the opposite side of the entry point are affected".
In fact, the feat as-written affects the character using it: "All characters within 20 feet of the entry point" pretty clearly includes the character making that entry point.
***
"I'm so awesome, I even stun myself."
5th level might be a little early for stunning multiple foes, but I think comparing this ability to Stunning Assault and Stunning Critical is a little tough. The Fear spell becomes available at 7th level and seems more powerful to me. Fear is a 30' cone which can be widened with a rod, has a higher DC, and lasts 7 rounds instead of 1.5. Terrifying Howl is available at 8th level and lasts 1d4+1 rounds. Sure, Terrifying Howl requires some set up, but maybe you can have the Bard play Dirge of Doom while the Rogue opens the door (per many threads he wasn’t going to do anything useful anyhow). Greater Command and Greater Forbid Action come online at 9th level (granted, I think GFA needs to be nerfed to offer a save per round like GC does)
@sowhereaminow - As I'd said before, accidentally stunning yourself when breaking through a wall might kind of make sense, but making yourself shaken if you don't end up stunned just seems silly to me.
Comparison to Dazing Spell is quite apt (as one of the most broken feats around): 11th level when a wizard could cast a Dazing Fireball, this feat can have a DC of 21, probably about the same as the Dazing Fireball [10 + 3 (level) + 8 (stat + spell focus)]; it starts lower, but scales faster than spell DCs. It inflicts stun, a much worse condition than daze (although oddly more things immune). It automatically shakens on a successful save, where the fireball might do some damage (depending on evasion/resistance). And it targets Fortitude, not Will - probably a net negative, but there are *LOTS* of creatures and NPCs with much better will saves than fortitude saves. Free to use (not even an action since it's specifically before combat), vs. one of 2-3 spell slots for an 11th level wizard. 2 rounds of stun vs. 3 for the fireball. Both could affect caster and party, neither particularly likely to (given the Fort saves of a full BAB class).
I'm an occasional buyer, not a subscriber, so I can't judge whether this is a trend.
As a former subscriber, I'm glad I cancelled before it got to this.
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I love this feat, because it's FUN.
Well, this is getting backlash for no good reason, much like crane style.
Let's see where that is now, shall we?
In the pile of things that Martial can't do anymore because they dedicated to a situational at-will ability, instead of tons of situational a-few-times abilities.
Can't have anything that isn't full attack, it seems. Damage monkeys, if you will.
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While I think Dazing Assault is pretty broken (because it forces multiple saves per round), this feat is at best, a once per combat deal, so it's pretty balanced... And really freaking cool!
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I love this feat, because it's FUN.
Agreed.
Also, it's terrifically cinematic.
I love this feat, because it's FUN.Agreed.
Also, it's terrifically cinematic.
Sorry, the internet has been declared a no-fun zone.
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Sorry, the internet has been declared a no-fun zone.I love this feat, because it's FUN.Agreed.
Also, it's terrifically cinematic.
And the squad dedicated to make sure Martials stay away from the fun in out on full force.
This feat is spectacular, even if you stun yourself, because it makes for great stories. In the end, tell me a story where the barbarian strength surged and then went all Kool-Aid man into the BBEG's lair. That's where it's at.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
BRB rolling up the Kool-Aid Man
So I shared this feat with my group. The general consensus is to remove the 1d4 rounds of shaken upon a failed save, and make it a combat maneuver instead of a feat.
Edit: oops. Upon a successful save.
So I shared this feat with my group. The general consensus is to remove the 1d4 rounds of shaken upon a failed save, and make it a combat maneuver instead of a feat.
The shaken condition is only on a successful save. The enemy is either Stunned for 1.5 roud or Shaken for 1d4 rounds.
So I shared this feat with my group. The general consensus is to remove the 1d4 rounds of shaken upon a failed save, and make it a combat maneuver instead of a feat.The shaken condition is only on a successful save. The enemy is either Stunned for 1.5 roud or Shaken for 1d4 rounds.
You're right. That's what I was thinking, just said it wrong.
Well, this is getting backlash for no good reason, much like crane style.
Hey now. That's an opinion.
There's a good reason for backlash in that this is a seriously powerful feat. Please see my previous breakdown and actually address it instead of dismissively tossing it - and every other concerned comment - into a "haters gonna hate" disregard pile.
Fact is I have no interest in "keeping martials from having nice things". I've always allowed Tome of Battle at my table and I allow its successor, Path of War.
I've just got a nervous sensitivity regarding stunning as something that's handed out. It's one of the most disruptive conditions, and I'm not comfortable with adding more low-level at-will area-effect ways for it to happen.
So cut it out with the "poor, poor me" standpoint. You and the rest. Crying "I'm being oppressed" doesn't make it true. A (potentially) broken feat is (potentially) broken. Oppression isn't the topic and opposition or concern isn't because "we" want to keep "you" at the back of the bus. I can't take seriously any thread that ends up full of people crying "martial disparity" without actually engaging the topic at hand.
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I want to combo this up with some of my feats from The Genius Guide to Bravery Feats for the ultimate cinematic warrior. Fly through the door with Stunning Irruption, knock a few guys down with Blood-Slicked Terrain, and then chase the BBEG with Into the Void.
For reference:
By opening yourself up for a retaliatory blow, you inflict a gushing wound on a tripped opponent.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Trip, Undaunted Assault.
Benefit: When you make a trip attempt while wielding a piecing or slashing weapon and using your Undaunted Assault feat, on a successful CMB check the tripped opponent also takes an amount of bleed damage equal to your bravery bonus, and must make an Acrobatics check (DC 10 + your CMB) to stand up from prone without taking a full-round action. Opponents immune to bleed damage are immune to this effect. Attempting a trip while using this ability always provokes an attack of opportunity from your opponent, even if anotherability would normally prevent you from provoking.
[bigger[Into the Void [Bravery][/bigger]
When you looked into the Abyss, it looked into you… and was afraid.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (planes) 7 ranks, fighter level 15.
Benefit: You have learned how to fearlessly chase your foes down no matter where they flee. When an adjacent opponent uses a spell with the (teleportation) keyword to transport themselves to another location, you may attempt to follow them. As an immediate action, make a single melee attack roll against an AC of 30 and a Knowledge (planes) skill check with a DC of 25, adding your bravery bonus as a competence bonus to both rolls. If successful, you leap into the lingering teleportation magic and immediately transport to an open square adjacent to the enemy that teleported. You are staggered for 1 round after using this ability. You may use this ability 1/day plus 1 additional time per day for each bravery feat you know in addition to this one.
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Well, this is getting backlash for no good reason, much like crane style.Hey now. That's an opinion.
There's a good reason for backlash in that this is a seriously powerful feat. Please see my previous breakdown and actually address it instead of dismissively tossing it - and every other concerned comment - into a "haters gonna hate" disregard pile.
Fact is I have no interest in "keeping martials from having nice things". I've always allowed Tome of Battle at my table and I allow its successor, Path of War.
I've just got a nervous sensitivity regarding stunning as something that's handed out. It's one of the most disruptive conditions, and I'm not comfortable with adding more low-level at-will area-effect ways for it to happen.
So cut it out with the "poor, poor me" standpoint. You and the rest. Crying "I'm being oppressed" doesn't make it true. A (potentially) broken feat is (potentially) broken. Oppression isn't the topic and opposition or concern isn't because "we" want to keep "you" at the back of the bus. I can't take seriously any thread that ends up full of people crying "martial disparity" without actually engaging the topic at hand.
1- It's extremely situational
2- It allows a save. Fort is the most common good save in the game and everyone invests in Con.3- It only lasts 1 round (1.5 if you count the Surprise round, in which they would most likely be unable to act anyway)
4- It's only usable once per combat, so not really "at will".
5- It only affects a 20ft radius (enemies are rarely crammed next to the wall or window)
6- Many different creatures are immune to Stun.
Dazing Assault? Broken. This feat? Occasionally great... Useless most of the time.
Even better! :DSo I shared this feat with my group. The general consensus is to remove the 1d4 rounds of shaken upon a failed save, and make it a combat maneuver instead of a feat.
Edit: oops. Upon a successful save.
So we've decided that anyone can do it, so long as the opponent isn't "aware" (aka not in battle with you or your team and not expecting someone to burst through the wall, that way you can't be banging on the front door 15 times before you finally burst through). Opponents within 20' are stunned if they fail a DC 10+BAB fort save.
Now, add in the feat: if you take the feat, opponents are shaken upon a successful save for 1d4 rounds. We're still toying with the idea of either extending the range to 30', or making it so the feat grants the ability to use it even against an aware foe (maybe make it a directional burst instead of radius, that way you can't stun them by fleeing through the wall; although that would be hilarious).
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It's a bit odd that you can be shaken for 4 rounds if you make the save, but stunned for only 2 rounds if you fail. You'd have thought that everyone would be affected by the shaken, though while the stun is going on it's irrelevant.
As for being shaken yourself: it's possible. You headbutted the wall just a bit too hard and your ears are still ringing.
The great thing about this is that it really nails the wizards and sorcerers who have lousy Fort saves. Revenge at last. Of course the wizard will have a Symbol of Sleep or something on the door anyway.
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Honestly as it is the fact that you could stun yourself is sort of a balancing factor.
It's so situational it doesn't need that "balancing" factor.
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It's a bit odd that you can be shaken for 4 rounds if you make the save, but stunned for only 2 rounds if you fail. You'd have thought that everyone would be affected by the shaken, though while the stun is going on it's irrelevant.
As for being shaken yourself: it's possible. You headbutted the wall just a bit too hard and your ears are still ringing.
The great thing about this is that it really nails the wizards and sorcerers who have lousy Fort saves. Revenge at last. Of course the wizard will have a Symbol of Sleep or something on the door anyway.
The wizard who put symbols of sleep on the walls is finally going to feel justified.
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Honestly as it is the fact that you could stun yourself is sort of a balancing factor.It's so situational it doesn't need that "balancing" factor.
I really have to agree with this. You have to have a door/window/wall that you can break through. Affected enemies have to be within 20 feet of said door/window/wall. Affected enemies have to be stunnable for the big effect, and have to fail one of the traditionally strongest monster saves to be affected. It only happens once per combat tops, with all of the above caveats.
I'm just not feeling it as an OP feat. Thematic, yessir. Entertaining, abso-freaking-lutely. Broken? It's not even the earliest level a martial class gets access to stun, and it's probably the most situational by a pretty big stretch.
1- It's extremely situational
Rebuttal A: not so much in a dungeon crawl or fortress exploration.
Rebuttal B: players will find ways to increase the frequency their toys come into play.2- It allows a save. Fort is the most common good save in the game and everyone invests in Con.
Rebuttal A: it will work on no less than 5% of those it impacts. That's baseline. In reality, if you peruse the NPC Codex and Bestiary 1 it turns out that level-appropriate single creatures have between 50% and 30% chances of failing their saves. In groups, the CR of the individual creatures will be lower.
Rebuttal B: it's an AoE, so more creatures get to make saves, meaning even if one of three fail (near certainty), you've dramatically nerfed the encounter.
3- It only lasts 1 round (1.5 if you count the Surprise round, in which they would most likely be unable to act anyway)
Rebuttal: the reality is 2.5 rounds, basically. First, players will be certain to set themselves up for surprise rounds by listening at doors and using keyholes etc. So where there might have been mutual ignorance, the moment players start contemplating this feat, surprise rounds in their favor will be manufactured.
Next, one round of being stunned.
Next, one round of provoking AoO while you pick up your weapons, followed by you making a single attack. Yes, you get an attack, but at the cost of provoking, so this easily counts as another round of suck.
What you add up to 1 I add up to 2.5.
4- It's only usable once per combat, so not really "at will".
Rebuttal: an ability that nerfs an encounter into triviality doesn't need to be done more than once per encounter. I maintain that in a game with 4-round-encounters, losing out on 2.5 of them means the encounter will really last 2.5 rounds. Maybe 3.
So yeah, at-will, in that you can use it every time it might be handy. Not every encounter is going to allow it, just like a single-roll-means-success sunder ability could also be at-will but not useful against monsters without weapons.
5- It only affects a 20ft radius (enemies are rarely crammed next to the wall or window)
Rebuttal: this game is chock full of 20ft x 20ft rooms. Even if you include the ludicrously common 30ft x 40ft room category, you're going to get a good portion of large groups, and frequently get single foes. Not bad for something that costs you nothing. (Except that you risk stunning yourself.)
6- Many different creatures are immune to Stun.
Undead and just about nothing else. I just finished Slumbering Tsar with a stunning specialist, and it was basically 800 pages of undead and the stunnable.
Dazing Assault? Broken. This feat? Occasionally great... Useless most of the time.
Situationally rare, maybe.
Let's put it this way... if it imposed staggered instead, I'd be fine. Probably even dazed. But for me, the dropping your equipment aspect of stunning extends the penalty time too long.
Oh, and thanks for taking the time to engage the topic. I appreciate quality debate. Best way for me to learn.
Unrelated get-off-my-lawn note: this was written on my cell phone. So to all the lazy IM-speak kiddies out there typn on ur phon so cant mak rite mesg, imma mak fun of u. <Grin>
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Again, why are these people standing there like goofballs holding their weapons with no enemy in sight?
Again, why are these people standing there like goofballs holding their weapons with no enemy in sight?
The complex may be on alert from previous actions the PCs took. The NPCs may be spending down-time sharpening weapons. The NPCs may be guarding a dangerous prisoner. The NPCs may be drilling/practicing/fighting amongst themselves, all of which happen in adventures.
I don't want to give the impression that when I DM all the bad guys are fully alert and ready, but neither am I an idiot.
So I've got my unofficial counter-offer.
I've had plenty of time to think about this, and to recognize what bugs me about this feat as written. Since we're talking about some house-rules anyway, here's my suggestion.
In the feat-taker's favor, rewrite it so it only potentially debuffs foes. The feat-taker and his allies are immune.
In the victim's favor, change stunned to dazed.
Is this not a reasonable compromise?
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Again, why are these people standing there like goofballs holding their weapons with no enemy in sight?
I was having a similar thought. The enemy pretty much has to know the party is coming for this ability to result in them dropping their weapons. They'd also have to have no better option than bending over to pick up their dropped weapons, but by the level this comes online I, personally, don't often see enemies that don't have a backup weapon or two (or three...). And if the enemy does know the party is coming, they should probably have some readied actions with ranged attacks to shoot the first enemy to enter the room, which would allow them to get a shot off before the effect kicks in (since readied actions precede the trigger). At that point, they probably would have dropped those weapons anyways before engaging in melee.
There's also always the possibility that you fail to break through the wall/door/window in attempting to trigger this feat, which could have awkward consequences all its own.
Rebuttal A: not so much in a dungeon crawl or fortress exploration.
How many characters get x-ray vision? Or do you think the PCs will go ahead breaking every freaking wall on their way? How dumb are enemies to be completely oblivious to the presence of the PCs and spend all their time glued to a door/window/wall
Rebuttal B: players will find ways to increase the frequency their toys come into play.
So...? Still, at most once per combat. And I doubt it'll happen that often.
Rebuttal A: it will work on no less than 5% of those it impacts. That's baseline. In reality, if you peruse the NPC Codex and Bestiary 1 it turns out that level-appropriate single creatures have between 50% and 30% chances of failing their saves. In groups, the CR of the individual creatures will be lower.
5%???!!! OMFG! BROKEN!
Seriously, though... It's not a particularly high DC. I'd say most opponents will make it most of the time.
Rebuttal B: it's an AoE, so more creatures get to make saves, meaning even if one of three fail (near certainty), you've dramatically nerfed the encounter.
Then maybe the character will stun 1 or 2 out of 6. No problem there. Many spells do the same thing, and casters will have far more than 1 spell slot per combat.
Rebuttal: the reality is 2.5 rounds, basically. First, players will be certain to set themselves up for surprise rounds by listening at doors and using keyholes etc. So where there might have been mutual ignorance, the moment players start contemplating this feat, surprise rounds in their favor will be manufactured.
Next, one round of being stunned.
Next, one round of provoking AoO while you pick up your weapons, followed by you making a single attack. Yes, you get an attack, but at the cost of provoking, so this easily counts as another round of suck.
Nope. Surprise round basically doesn't change. For opponents to drop their weapons (which isn't an issue for most monsters), they have to be standing around holding their weapons in hand... And why would they do that? Unless they knew they have invaders, in which case, most enemy groups will patrol the area, not stand still in a single room. Next to the same wall/window and fail their saves. And if the enemy only has that one weapon, why isn't it using an weapon cord? It costs 1 sp!
Rebuttal: an ability that nerfs an encounter into triviality doesn't need to be done more than once per encounter. I maintain that in a game with 4-round-encounters, losing out on 2.5 of them means the encounter will really last 2.5 rounds. Maybe 3.
It doesn't trivialize combat because it only lasts 1 round. Unlike, say, Confusion, which will very likely last the whole combat. besides, unless the PC can all teleport as a swift action, most of them won't be able to use the surprise round for anything other than positioning themselves. 1 round stun is a good advantage, but it's very far from "nerfing an encounter in triviality".
Rebuttal: this game is chock full of 20ft x 20ft rooms. Even if you include the ludicrously common 30ft x 40ft room category, you're going to get a good portion of large groups, and frequently get single foes. Not bad for something that costs you nothing. (Except that you risk stunning yourself.)
Many adventures occur in places with no doors or windows to break. Many encounters happen in corridors and in the outdoors.
Undead and just about nothing else. I just finished Slumbering Tsar with a stunning specialist, and it was basically 800 pages of undead and the stunnable.
Even if that's true... And I'm not sure it is... Undead are one of the most common creature types... But we can also basically add every creature with a good Fort save (that's a lot of them!) or with flight (because why would they be next to a wall that you can break through).
This feat doesn't do anything that can't be done with spells. And spells will probably have better DC and be far less situational.
If you think this feat is broken, you should definitely ban (at least) half the offensive spells in the game.
So I've got my unofficial counter-offer.
I've had plenty of time to think about this, and to recognize what bugs me about this feat as written. Since we're talking about some house-rules anyway, here's my suggestion.
In the feat-taker's favor, rewrite it so it only potentially debuffs foes. The feat-taker and his allies are immune.
In the victim's favor, change stunned to dazed.
Is this not a reasonable compromise?
My group thought it was underpowered. Made it an action available to anyone, with the feat adding additional bonuses.
Rebuttal A: it will work on no less than 5% of those it impacts. That's baseline. In reality, if you peruse the NPC Codex and Bestiary 1 it turns out that level-appropriate single creatures have between 50% and 30% chances of failing their saves. In groups, the CR of the individual creatures will be lower..
So they get a 50-70% chance to succeed, or about what PCs should expect with their good save at any given level against any given foe.
First, players will be certain to set themselves up for surprise rounds by listening at doors and using keyholes etc. So where there might have been mutual ignorance, the moment players start contemplating this feat, surprise rounds in their favor
Wait wait wait. Since when have players NOT been doing this? I've been playing D&D since the late 80s/early 90s; this is dungeoneering 101. You always check to see if baddies are on the other side of the door. You never walk in blindly and ignorant. This is just standard. The presence of this feat should not be changing the behavior of players, and if it does, then they have been lucky their characters have remained alive past first level.
Rebuttal A: not so much in a dungeon crawl or fortress exploration.How many characters get x-ray vision? Or do you think the PCs will go ahead breaking every freaking wall on their way? How dumb are enemies to be completely oblivious to the presence of the PCs and spend all their time glued to a door/window/wall
This feels like the GM plays dungeon rooms as separate entities that are completely unaware of anything else going on in the same dungeon. Like video games.
In dungeons I've played in and run, the occupants of the dungeon have the opportunity to hear what's going on elsewhere, and are capable of reacting and being proactive in the defense of their home. Especially if the PCs are being particularly loud (more than normal combat for a larger dungeon) and especially if bad guys get away (which they try to do, because they aren't dumb enough to fight til they die).
Again, why are these people standing there like goofballs holding their weapons with no enemy in sight?The complex may be on alert from previous actions the PCs took. The NPCs may be spending down-time sharpening weapons. The NPCs may be guarding a dangerous prisoner. The NPCs may be drilling/practicing/fighting amongst themselves, all of which happen in adventures.
I don't want to give the impression that when I DM all the bad guys are fully alert and ready, but neither am I an idiot.
There's also the fact that a good 60% of the time or better, enemies are using natural attacks anyway.