At last, the feat we've been waiting for


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From Champions of Corruption:

Quote:

Stunning Irruption (Combat)

When you smash your way into a room, you gain more than just the element of surprise.

Prerequisites: Str 15, Power Attack, base attack bonus +5.

Benefit: Before starting combat, you can attempt to break through a door, window, or wall to enter a room. If you succeed, the violence of your arrival is so great that all characters within 20 feet of your entry point must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + your base attack bonus) or be stunned instead of acting in the surprise round (if there is one) plus 1 round thereafter. Characters who succeed at this save are instead shaken for 1d4 rounds.

Yes: after 15 years, 3.x finally has a game mechanism that rewards you for kicking in the door.

Doug M.


That is... amazing.


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BRB rolling up the Kool-Aid Man


Also amazing.

Sovereign Court

Oh man this is perfect for my Cockatrice Cavalier.


noice!

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Stunning your allies might tick them off.


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Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Stunning your allies might tick them off.

Presumably they are behind you. "Bob goes in first. Bob *likes* going in first."

Doug M.


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They had me at "or wall".

Doug M.


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So, I'm thinking a Mythic Barbarian. Strength Surge, Juggernaut (x3), Devastating Smash, Destroyer, Display of Strength?

Spend a couple of MP to get a +50 bonus on Strength checks while doing your Charge, and just bust right on through. Ignore all object Hardness forever if you're out of MP for some reason.

KAM: "OH YEAH!"

Everyone Else: "OH GOD!"


Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

Sovereign Court

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Marv: "I'll be right out"


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Wiggz wrote:

Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.

Sovereign Court

Rynjin wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.

1D4 rounds?


I might not have enough feats to justify my gish taking this, but that's what paragon surge is for.

Screw the expanded arcana trick, this is where it's really at.


This is all kinds of special. The good kind. I'm just imagining the juggernaut.

Can't be as strong or as powerful as him of course, but blow through a wall or door and, "Don't you know who I am?!" *Stunned stares*

Sovereign Court

Romeo: /fail attempt "Who ordered the kickass fajitas?"

Romeo: /success "Ding...Dong Motherf#$%^ers... DING...DONG..."


Rynjin wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.

Burst through a wall... or broke a window.

Stun is a pretty massive effect plus Shaken on top of it. At least make it Dazed where they can defend themselves... seems like a ridiculous feat to me - and achievable at 5th level no less, whereas Stunning Assault/Stunning Critical is available, at the earliest, at 16th-17th level.


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To me, it seems almost... like a spell...

Sovereign Court

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Tacticslion wrote:
To me, it seems almost... like a spell...

A SPELL??? Oh crap there goes the feat.

Scarab Sages

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This... This... It's beautiful! *wipes tear*


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Wiggz wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.

Burst through a wall... or broke a window.

Stun is a pretty massive effect plus Shaken on top of it. At least make it Dazed where they can defend themselves... seems like a ridiculous feat to me - and achievable at 5th level no less, whereas Stunning Assault/Stunning Critical is available, at the earliest, at 16th-17th level.

Stunning Assault also has a DC that's likely to be twice as high or more, and can be triggered multiple times a round against the same target.

Remember, the DC is only 10+BaB. At 5th level, many monsters can make a DC 15 Fort save EASILY.

No, what this really is for is taking mooks out of the fight so you can maneuver past them to smash the big bad. Which is a powerful, and IMO balanced Feat.


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Yep, anything to buff martial classes is a good thing. +1 for this feat.

Scarab Sages

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Preach it, brother!
*ahem*
More seriously, this is the kind of thing that won't end an encounter 9/10 times because of the wording.
1) "all characters within 20 feet of your entry point" means you're probably entering alone. You need that round of stun just to make sure you're not mobbed by the mooks on the other side.

2) It's only 20 ft. The big bad is not normally that close. Sometimes, but not often.

3) DC is relatively low. It does scale, but remains on the weak side of acceptable. Actually, I see it doing what many abilities don't and getting slightly (read: slightly) stronger as levels increase, which is awesome to see for a martial.

Edit: I need to build a gunslinger cowboy switch-hitter with this...
BOOM "I'm lookin' for Jimmy the Snitch." Then spit on the floor as the tavern stares at you and your party charges in.

Sovereign Court

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Choon wrote:

Preach it, brother!

*ahem*
More seriously, this is the kind of thing that won't end an encounter 9/10 times because of the wording.
1) "all characters within 20 feet of your entry point" means you're probably entering alone. You need that round of stun just to make sure you're not mobbed by the mooks on the other side.

2) It's only 20 ft. The big bad is not normally that close. Sometimes, but not often.

3) DC is relatively low. It does scale, but remains on the weak side of acceptable. Actually, I see it doing what many abilities don't and getting slightly (read: slightly) stronger as levels increase, which is awesome to see for a martial.

4) Situational. PCs need to get the drop on the baddies for this to work.

5) You can fail to burst through the wall or door and end up like O.J. Simpson in naked gun.

Dark Archive

I will admit, I was expecting nothing good from a book called "Champions of Corruption" but this. This is amazing.


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Wiggz wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

Stun?

Wouldn't something like a free action Intimidate check be more appropriate?

You just burst through a wall unannounced. I think something more dramatic than Shaken for a round is in order.

Burst through a wall... or broke a window.

Stun is a pretty massive effect plus Shaken on top of it. At least make it Dazed where they can defend themselves... seems like a ridiculous feat to me - and achievable at 5th level no less, whereas Stunning Assault/Stunning Critical is available, at the earliest, at 16th-17th level.

Eff that noise.

If Casters are getting Sacred Geometry, Martials should be able to throw down some serious status effects too.

Hell, a Caster could throw down something like Phantasmal Web at 9th level and wreck an encounter way worse than this feat.


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Yep, I often like to point at Full Progression spellcasters whenever someone knee-jerks the phrase 'broken!' at a melee feat. It's very limited, full of flavor, and pays dividends if you can prepare/scout/divinate etc. It seems pretty balanced, and pretty darn cool to boot.


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Let's note that the 3/4 BAB characters could have some fun with this too. A Bard or Rogue swinging through the window -- Crash! -- would be situational as hell. But when it comes together? The stuff of gaming memories.

Doug M.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Stunned... as in... they drop whatever they're holding. Yeah, that's balanced for "someone kicked in the door". Sure this is situational, but whenever it works, it's just kinda... broken.

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It's an amazing feat. As has been mentioned, not necessarily practical, it requires the appropriate setting, and some setup in your build, and then the DC isn't very high. But...it's worth it nonetheless.


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Anguish wrote:
Stunned... as in... they drop whatever they're holding. Yeah, that's balanced for "someone kicked in the door". Sure this is situational, but whenever it works, it's just kinda... broken.

See:

Ser Clay wrote:
Yep, I often like to point at Full Progression spellcasters whenever someone knee-jerks the phrase 'broken!' at a melee feat. It's very limited, full of flavor, and pays dividends if you can prepare/scout/divinate etc. It seems pretty balanced, and pretty darn cool to boot.


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If they're surprised, they're probably not holding anything anyway. So they have nothing much to drop. Looks fine to me. And anyway, half the monsters out there don't use weapons.

It must be Fighter's birthday. Fighter has a Nice Thing :)


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He's a helper! :D


I think one of my players might cry when he sees this feat. That's not hyperbole, I fully expect to see tears of joy.


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It'd be nice if it included the caveat that "only characters on the opposite side of the entry point are affected".

In fact, the feat as-written affects the character using it: "All characters within 20 feet of the entry point" pretty clearly includes the character making that entry point.

We could go full CoD and increase the DC if the character uses a Fuse Grenade as part of the action.


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Anguish wrote:
Stunned... as in... they drop whatever they're holding. Yeah, that's balanced for "someone kicked in the door". Sure this is situational, but whenever it works, it's just kinda... broken.

A spell caster can stun groups with a first level spell (color spray); a monk can stun with a first level ability, but a fighter who stuns with a 5th level ability is broken?


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Let's note that the 3/4 BAB characters could have some fun with this too. A Bard or Rogue swinging through the window -- Crash! -- would be situational as hell. But when it comes together? The stuff of gaming memories.

Doug M.

Stunned opponents?

Rogue?

free sneak attacks?

nice…. It's window diving time!!

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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Let's note that the 3/4 BAB characters could have some fun with this too. A Bard or Rogue swinging through the window -- Crash! -- would be situational as hell. But when it comes together? The stuff of gaming memories.

This is better then a whole prestige class.


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Ser Clay wrote:
Yep, I often like to point at Full Progression spellcasters whenever someone knee-jerks the phrase 'broken!' at a melee feat. It's very limited, full of flavor, and pays dividends if you can prepare/scout/divinate etc. It seems pretty balanced, and pretty darn cool to boot.

Which I then in turn like to point out whenever a rational discussion is taking place (rather than anyone knee-jerking anything), that we aren't discussing classes, we're discussing feats. Sure, at high levels full casters are unbalanced in comparison to high-level martials, but that's an entirely different conversation. A feat's balance is generally determined by comparing it to other feats, not to what some particular race-class combination might be able to do at a particular level.

Compare this feat to other feats which inflict the Stun condition, then take into account that it inflicts it upon multiple foes simultaneously and that its an Area of Effect ability, that it doesn't require a hit to trigger (like Stunning Critical or Stunning Assault) and doesn't even use up a specific action. Then compare the level requirements and its pre-requisites in that perspective. This feat doesn't come close to being 'balanced' when viewed in that light.

I'd allow an effect of some sort using the 'rule of cool', but to create a feat which - at 5th level no less - can so dramatically alter an encounter and represents... what... 'door-kicking' or 'window-breaking' specialization? Come on.

I do a lot to help martials in my home games, not the least of which is granting Power Attack and Combat Expertise for free as soon as the pre-reqs are met and adding BAB to the Initiative roll... but this feat, mechanically speaking (as opposed to conceptually) just seems silly and kind of out of left field to me.


bookrat wrote:
Anguish wrote:
Stunned... as in... they drop whatever they're holding. Yeah, that's balanced for "someone kicked in the door". Sure this is situational, but whenever it works, it's just kinda... broken.
A spell caster can stun groups with a first level spell (color spray); a monk can stun with a first level ability, but a fighter who stuns with a 5th level ability is broken?

Everyone in a 20' radius a theoretical unlimited number of times? Yes. Stunned is being rendered insensible and helpless... even Dazed would be better though Shaken would be more appropriate. Stunned? Come on.

Scarab Sages

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Rynjin wrote:
BRB rolling up the Kool-Aid Man

Oh yeah!


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Interesting... My 2h fighter/barbarian would like this... but then he smashes through walls...

Sovereign Court

@Wiggz what would make it better? Add intimidating prowess to the feat prereqs or change stun to daze?

I was talking to a gamer friend of mine. I don't often run dungeon crawls and certainly not megas like he does. He mentioned being super worried that the feat would be used constantly but it would be much more situational in my average game. YMMV.


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Bring your own wall with you, set it down, then bust through it!


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Wiggz wrote:
bookrat wrote:
Anguish wrote:
Stunned... as in... they drop whatever they're holding. Yeah, that's balanced for "someone kicked in the door". Sure this is situational, but whenever it works, it's just kinda... broken.
A spell caster can stun groups with a first level spell (color spray); a monk can stun with a first level ability, but a fighter who stuns with a 5th level ability is broken?
Everyone in a 20' radius a theoretical unlimited number of times? Yes. Stunned is being rendered insensible and helpless... even Dazed would be better though Shaken would be more appropriate. Stunned? Come on.

Everyone in a 20' radius includes allies and yourself.

Usable an unlimited number of times, provided you have an unlimited supply of doors/windows/breachable walls within 20' of enemies.

Stunned if they fail a low Fortitude DC (most enemies have good Fortitude saves) and if they're not Stun immune due to creature type (such as Undead, Construct, Elemental, Plant, Ooze, etc).

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Lord Fyre wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Let's note that the 3/4 BAB characters could have some fun with this too. A Bard or Rogue swinging through the window -- Crash! -- would be situational as hell. But when it comes together? The stuff of gaming memories.
This is better then a whole prestige class.

Hey now, he'd only taken his first level in that PrC, and it looks like he got other features as well.


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Really cool feat! Extremely situational, but really freaking cool! I approve!

Whoever thinks this is "too powerful" should remember that nearly all casters have spells far more powerful, far less situational and with considerably higher DCs.

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