Some really good stuff here, just had two thoughts.
Musketeer isn't really that good as you'll take a standard action to reload the musket. Fine for casual amateurs but true switchhitters are better off dipping three levels of Gunslinger (Musket Master) as that allows you to reload as a move action. Plus, grit and panache stack, and go off whichever pool you prefer, which could let you use Wisdom for panache which is rather nice.
Also, it costs two feats but I have a work around to still use precise strike with Picaroon. The feat Kick-Up lets you retrieve an unattended item as a swift action. You could drop a pistol, hit all the times with a rapier, and then pick up the pistol (without provoking an AoO) which is quite nice.
I don't see a lot of people talking about TWF Flying Blades. Are they bad or something?
Why should people talk abut TWF flying blades? TWF takes away precise strike damage. Now rapid shot... that's a different matter.
the issue is they have no class feature to make throwing work well.
So you either take the feat to pretend to have weapon training to take the weapon mastery to get your weapon usable in a full attack, startoss style, or work with the blinkback belt.
if you're talking about doing it melee style, then you again don't have anything really special helping you with the style. your main damage booster turns off when using 2 weapons.
So beyond it not having any class features to help throwing, or melee there's not much that makes it different enough from any other class.
Barring archetypes, magic items or feats, your maximum panache points are your CHA modifier (min 1).
14 CHA=2 maximum panache.
16 CHA=3 maximum panache.
And so on.
Something I wanted to throw in on this is Sylphs make awesome swashbucklers with capes. Particularly when you have the Breeze-Kissed racial bonus as your cape can always be flowing dramatically.
The stats aren't too bad either for an inspired blade.
Doc is still down, anyone have an archived copy?
i need the guide too. anyone know how to access it?
^Doesn't let me in unless I have been specifically allowed access.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7vPvR9jY22K_u7PBGlyL_mcuenOjkbC6HbY3ZL JERM/edit?usp=sharing
The URL doesn't match the link text.
However, this works.
The URL doesn't match the link text
Forgot to make it public in the sharing settings. I'm obviously too stoopid to figure out Google Docs lol.
Thanks for posting a proper link.
Nah - there are good things in the class up to about level 5 or so.
I feel that the dip rep Swash's get is unfounded. Not saying it is perfect, or not front loaded...but the additional damage per level alone makes not leaving the class well worth it IMO...
Once you factor in the extra feats and various deeds/improvements on previous class features, I think it is a great Martial class, though operates on a different style of play than most...
So the Swashbuckler tech I'm interested in now is a Tiefling or Grippli (for the prehensile tail/tongue) Swashbuckler who uses the smoke strike equipment trick (with a slow-burning smokestick held in their tail or tongue) to enable swift-action feinting while still having a free hand, who then goes into Devoted Muse at level 6.
There's no reason this wouldn't work right?
There are some reasons it might not. The grippli's tongue and the tiefling's tail aren't that prehensile. Neither can wield weapons for example. Would they need to be at least that good to be able to feint with a smokestick? It's in ask your GM territory.
^Swashbuckler is also good for anything else that's Charisma-based(*) where you are really feat-starved, need Weapon Finesse, and could make good use of the Panache (which doesn't scale) and 1st level Deeds. Like Swashbuckler 1/Oracle x.
(*)For something not Charisma-based, I'd consider Unchained Rogue instead. Especially if skill-starved.
|
Let me disagree with elf rating. Adventurer's guide introduced us a realy damn neat weapon - elven thornblade, which is 1d6 18-20 weapon that has +2 to crit conformation(Which is vital for panache regain) and does both S and P damage type, so it lets you use finesse without archetypes and untill you get slashing grace. Using this weapon is worth feat(because +2 to crit confirm is half of critical focus and additional damage type is half of weapon versatility that doesn't require your swift action)
Also, I'd like to point out martial mastery feat, which opens up even more options(It's sad that swashbuckler training doesn't count as fighter weapon training, but this would be too OP because it includes weapons from couple of weapon groups). Difficult swings is nice to have, but one option I'm going to use as my PFS swash is taking 13 str to qualify for Cut from the air feat, which lets us parry BOTH melee and ranged attacks. This may be not as useful as awesome, but being awesome is one of main reasons to play swashbuckler.
By the way, why do you consider TWF useless? Of course, we will require another feat to apply dex to dmg with slashing grace, but the only feature you actually lose is precise strike and only during fullrounds, in which you still get more damage and can critfish for more panache. This is cheesy and requires bunch of feats, but is still worth it.
TWF is generally seen as not worth it because it's feat expensive and cuts off your Precise Strike and Slashing/Fencing Grace.
Only during full rounds, sure, but ideally you want as many of those as you can get.
Two-Weapon Grace exists now, so it's possible to get slashing/fencing grace with TWF (well, half dex with your offhand weapon) but it's feat intensive, further decreases your accuracy (-4/-4 for two light weapons), and shuts off precise strike.
It technically works, but I don't think it's great. Finesse-oriented TWFers are better off as Vigilantes or Fighters because of Lethal Grace and Trained Grace.
The Shifter reminds me very much of the Swashbuckler in design.
Both classes take a super cool idea and turn it into a bland and uninspired class which is poorly balanced (parry and riposte/pounce) and a major pitA to take to 20.
I'd argue however that the flying blade is much better thn the base swashbuckler (and viable as a single class) due to being able to get more precise strike attacks in and the absurdly powerful disrupting counter deed which you get on top on top of parry and riposte.
I feel that the dip rep Swash's get is unfounded. Not saying it is perfect, or not front loaded...but the additional damage per level alone makes not leaving the class well worth it IMO...
Once you factor in the extra feats and various deeds/improvements on previous class features, I think it is a great Martial class, though operates on a different style of play than most...
even with the level addon, the damage output wont reach a barbarian or fighter, as the main sources the multi on critical like Power attack and 2 hander arent optional for a Swash.
the low saves is a REALLY poor planning.
a better Swash is a Daring cavalier, with smite, order and fort saves.
the only Swash i feel worth playing, low saves though, is Unchained rogue 4 \ Swash 5 \ more Rogue levels.
the Class is the BEST 1 level dip for a fighter or magus for parry ...
You make a couple good points
The Barbarian can do more strait damage, the fighter will have more feats, etc, they should have another +2 save (probably fort).
However, the fact that there are aspects that a different class can do better does not negate the value of the class. I would be happy to take a level 10 Swash up against any other level 10 Martial, and I am pretty sure I could win (assuming an equal level of player mastery). One major weakness however is that (especially Barbarian & Fighters) have had more effort put into finding ways to make them uber than Swashbucklers have.
As a thought experiment I looked at some basic level 10 builds (and I do mean basic), while the barbarian would normally win, the fighter and the swash both did fairly well (Barbarian tended to "die" after most of the fights due to loosing his "rage" hit points). The swash and the fighter was about 60% fighter/40% Swash)
http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-dashing-daring-dandys-dragoman- in.html
Halflings, and the Mouser archetype, should both be "blue": Halflings receive racial bonuses to the two stats Swashbucklers use most and a dump to the one they care about least, get +1 attack, +1 AC, and +1 all saving throws to a martial class, and enjoy many racial traits and feats useful to melee combatants, especially crit-fishers (for example, with the regional traits Bloodthirty and either Region's Finest or Bestial Wrath, and the racial alternative trait Low Blow and the feat Improved Low Blow, the halfling swashbuckler is rocking a +4 or +5 to confirm crits relative to "normals" as well as getting a re-roll per day.
Opportune Parry and Riposte shouldn't be blue, as it's wildly overrated by players who can't crunch probability. I would rate it orange for Swashbucklers of whom charisma is not their highest stat, and only green or blue for smite-happy paladin multiclasses of whom it is.
Swashbuckler Weapon Training is nice, but I would consider that saving of money (i.e., the cost of a Keen enhancement) as only green.
Charmed Life, meanwhile, should be a seizure-inducing strobing ultra-violet. (Would you rather get a free pseudo Cloak of Resistance +(cha) a half-dozen times per day that stacks with your existing CoR, or save on Keen or ImpCrit getting an ability that doesn't stack? ...well, you do get both anyone, but one is objectively better than the other.)