You make a couple good points
The Barbarian can do more strait damage, the fighter will have more feats, etc, they should have another +2 save (probably fort).
However, the fact that there are aspects that a different class can do better does not negate the value of the class. I would be happy to take a level 10 Swash up against any other level 10 Martial, and I am pretty sure I could win (assuming an equal level of player mastery). One major weakness however is that (especially Barbarian & Fighters) have had more effort put into finding ways to make them uber than Swashbucklers have.
As a thought experiment I looked at some basic level 10 builds (and I do mean basic), while the barbarian would normally win, the fighter and the swash both did fairly well (Barbarian tended to "die" after most of the fights due to loosing his "rage" hit points). The swash and the fighter was about 60% fighter/40% Swash)
Hey, I had a question about the new Newcromunda game. I know this is not that companies forum, but I don't want to sign up for another forum and thought that someone around here might know the answer...hopefully this sub-forum is not intended only for D&D and Pathfinder games...:)
My question is, for the campaign style games how many creds does each gang start with?
I feel that the dip rep Swash's get is unfounded. Not saying it is perfect, or not front loaded...but the additional damage per level alone makes not leaving the class well worth it IMO...
Once you factor in the extra feats and various deeds/improvements on previous class features, I think it is a great Martial class, though operates on a different style of play than most...
I'd consider monk instead, just me...
Today I was thinking about GISH classes, you know Part warrior, part Arcane caster.
I thought I would compare two "gishes" for the benefits and negatives of the builds. For our purposes we will be using a Magus (The gish class) and a Eldrick Knight build. We will be taking a "Snap shot" of level 1, 5, 10, 15, 20
Our Fighter/Wizard/EK build. Starts with a level of Fighter
Multi-class is now a Fighter 1/Wizard 4
MC, Now Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 4
MC, Now Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 9
MC, Now Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/Arcane Archer 4
In a few levels, maybe...
Brings up an interesting question (unrelated) I have been having
If a magic item has multiple abilities, do they all have to "match" for spell level? right now my characters Melee weapon has a level 3 command word attack spell attached to it (Magic missile, only 2 darts...I cast 4 so not game breaking)
Right now: I am consoling myself that his teacher (me) does have magic weapon, which does "justify" his magus pool (as a kensei he only can cast 1 spell, plus his "magic weapon" spells). His Spell combat makes sense for his more martial focus than mine, I think the exploit is all I really need to feel good about the situation, even though it is less than optimal for me...
So, I have an arcanist, do to some RP reasons (His brother is a level 1 MAGUS, 7 levels of "other") I want to be able to imitate his abilities? HOW...obviously I could take a level in Magus, but would rather not.
That leaves taking Quicken Spell, and Arcane Weapon Exploit (Should be just about right). Is there another way?...that is a lot of resources for something I want simply because my character should have been the one to teach him magic...
I had an idea for a character, not really far into the process at all, but wanted him DEADLY with daggers, a warpriest of Pharasma
Human (Prioritize: Dex(>15), Wis (>13), Con (>13) Str, Int, Cha)
1) Weapon Focus (Daggers), Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace
First let me say that I spend a lot of time thinking about the differences of good/evil, law/anarchy, Freedom/Safety, etc...
I can definitely respect what you are saying here (I think some of your assumptions about numbers are off, but that is minutia). I feel, after reading this monster of a thread, a few things: Paladin should replace the alignment restriction to "Must have the same alignment of the god they worship". Then a comment on the code that each god has a strict code that the Paladin must follow (to be established by the gameworld/GM/etc...).
Yes this "dips" into the Warpriest theme a bit. This also effectively removes Anti-paladin from the game (or merges it really with Paladin)
Murder is a SUBSET of killing. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder (Just like my poodle is a dog, but not all dogs are poodles.)
Well first of all, magic missile couldn't target the images anyway. It only targets creatures, and the images aren't creatures.
Secondly, nothing in the mirror image spell says the images are directly targetable (unlike in 3.5 D&D, when that was specifically called out). Instead, you attack normally and there is a chance the image is hit instead.
And lastly, mirror image says anything that doesn't require an attack roll automatically hits the creature and does not destroy any figments.
So unless the wording of the spell changed between printings of Pathfinder, nothing about either spell would even allow magic missile as a possibility of removing images.
In my/my gm's defense: We did not realize the FAQ (Or the bit in the spell description). I thought it was clever...ohh well....
FYI---My shadowrun Jack of all Trades works REALLY WELL (Mystic Adept/Decker/Face). Lots of BUFF spells involved. He is a Karma build, but could have done him as an ABCDE if I was willing to pay double on a quality (+4 Karma) and wait 4-5 runs for his first deck (Or use in debt)
Ok, I know some will say "ABUSE" but this idea came to me for a wizard's weapon. I would have little problem with it for a non gish spellcaster, a gish one I would have to really consider for but here is the idea
Weapon +1 Training (Arcane Strike). Total cost 8150+Weapon. Obviously as the character advances levels it becomes more and more powerful for less cost
However a spell caster should not be in melee if they can help it. Yes VERY ABUSABLE for a Magus or other GISH
I am trying to be careful with how I say this, so if I am offensive or seem to be belittling your response I assure you it is not intended to be any type of attack
I disagree with you on the consequences of allowing this & the level of cheese. However I suspect you might be right about the rules. I wonder if I was clear of the intent however, as by your response I think you think I am talking about more than I am. In practice what I am talking about is making the "slot" go from "in-Hand" to well "hands". I would not expect it to be "Wielded" while in glove.
Let's look at something a little odd as an example of a similar effect: there is a magic item called the STINGING STILETTO. Basically a dagger that could turn into a ring or necklace...would you allow it to function as an arcane bond in any of it's forms? or only while "in hand"?
So last night we were fighting an ogre mage who cast mirror image (The visuals of a basically nude ogress might haunt me for a while...especialy when there were 4 of them...)
Knowing that she was going to be a challenge (and was probably "The boss") I cast my Magic Missile spell and split the darts to one on each of her...
Okay, my damage sucked (I only rolled one d4 and got a 1), because we knew only one of the images was "Real"
It got me thinking, the spell is not designed to get rid of images (Basically a dispel) but it worked, what I call the butterknife screwdriver principle...What other stories do players have that they used something in an unintentional way that worked?
Another story comes from 2.5 era (Players options days), where my wizard cast cantrip (I was out of other spells) at the top of a tower where 3 ogres were chasing us. The party was out of resources, low on hit points, and basically screwed...
Cast cantrip (3 glowing balls) "This is the cantrip of DEATH!!!, when the arcane ball strikes you your flesh will dissolve, every inch of you will be as if you were on fire, and you will die. slowly. painfully. while you will not care, you will also stink up the room worse than you do already...leave NOW!
One (Terrible) moral roll later and we are safe...
Currently in the middle of chapter 3 of ROTRL with an elven Arcanist (5)/Evangelist(3).
We don't use retraining...If I did I would change somethings...
The following is my thoughts on how it is going
ELF: I swapped elven weapons for elven arcane focus (+2 concentration)...mixed bag, there was a few times wish I had a sword, but overall I think it was a good swap
Feat selection: I have been doing a KS build, so almost all my feats have basically gone towards this...less than optimal, but been fun.
Traits: Magical Knack & Scholar of the ancients (TAKE SCHOLAR OF ANCIENTS...TRUST ME)
Potent Magic: TAKE THIS...LEVEL 1, MUST HAVE...Cannot stress this enough...
Bloodline development: Arcane (Focus)...Building a custom focus, would have cost me two feats instead of one, so went for it...would probably of been better to go with craft weapon then craft staff...ohh well, the extra spell isn't bad...
Quick Study...just got this last night, and only used it once...but really nice...
The Evangelist levels have been useful already (Character level 6 sucked), obviously choosing the right god helps a lot (Nethys, so concentration bonus and 3/mage armors a day)
So taking a bit of my day off to think about where I am going with my character.
My current character at level 7 is below. We don't use retraining rules...
The staff of Nethys is a custom magic weapon (quarterstaff). Basically a very expensive staff of entwined serpents, special materials and provides a +1 Shield bonus (priced as X^2 x 2500 x 1.5). I'll be developing it, to a higher weapon and shield bonus.
Meriel The Magnificent
Male elf arcanist 5/evangelist 2 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 8)
NG Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10
AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 natural, +1 shield)
hp 43 (7 HD; 5d6+2d8+16)
Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +6; +2 vs. enchantments
Speed 30 ft.
Melee dagger +5 (1d4+2/19-20) or
. . dagger +5 (1d4+2/19-20) or
. . staff of nethys +6 (1d6+4)
Ranged sling +7 (1d4+2)
Special Attacks arcane reservoir (3/9), arcanist exploits (bloodline development [arcane][ACG], potent magic[ACG], school understanding [arcane bond [object], universalist][ACG]), consume spells, hand of the apprentice (5/day)
Arcanist Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +15)
. . 3rd (3/day)—haste
. . 2nd (5/day)—cat's grace, fox's cunning
. . 1st (5/day)—burning hands (DC 15), grease, mage armor, magic missile
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, light, mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic
. . Bloodline Arcane
Str 15, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 15
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 20
Feats Amateur Investigator[ACG], Breadth Of Experience[APG], Deific Obedience, Eschew Materials, Noble Scion Of Lore[ISWG]
Traits magical knack, scholar of the ancients
Skills Appraise +9, Craft (Drawing) +13, Craft (weapons) +10, Knowledge (All) +6, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (engineering) +11, Knowledge (geography) +11, Knowledge (history) +18, Knowledge (local) +11, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (nobility) +13, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +13, Linguistics +10, Perception +10, Profession (All) +5, Spellcraft +14 (+16 to identify magic item properties), Stealth +11, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Thassilonian
SQ arcane focus[ARG], elven magic
Combat Gear scroll of comprehend languages, scroll of mirror image, scroll of see invisibility, scroll of sleep, wand of silent image (5 charges); Other Gear staff of nethys, dagger, dagger, sling, sling bullets (20), amulet of natural armor +1, golembane scarab, handy haversack, traveler's any-tool[UE], arcanist starting spellbook, belt pouch, belt pouch, candle (10), chalk (2), crowbar, flint and steel, grappling hook, ink (2), inkpen, journal[UE], masterwork tool, mess kit[UE], parchment (5), scroll case, silk rope (50 ft.), spell component pouch, string or twine[APG] (5), trail rations (5), waterskin, whetstone, donkey, animal harness, artisan tools, bedroll, blanket, cauldron, masterwork tool, pack saddle, silver/gold-smith anvil, soap, light horse, bit and bridle, riding saddle, saddlebags, 4,377 gp, 8 sp, 4 cp
Amateur Investigator (4/day) Your knowledge is more than plain smarts - it's inspired.
Prerequisites: Int 13, 1 rank in at least one Knowledge skill, no levels in a class that has the inspiration class feature.
Benefit: Like an investigator, you have the abil
His most prized possession is a small journal that he keeps in a belt pouch. He can often be seen writing notes about what is going on around him.
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I am mostly concerned with the order I am taking things right now, but would like opinions over all
If the campaign world is there world then yes
When I ran Star Wars for instance the party was a group of Rebel "troubleshooters" who took orders from Wedge Antilies. They ran into Luke, Chewie, 3PO and the Falcon. The stories always revolved around the players
Same when I ran a Dragonlance, DC Universe and a Marvel Universe game. In my own Superhero setting they have ran into some "mythical" characters (Various legends like Hercules), and some classic lit characters (Ishmail, Sherlock Holmes, and Dracula)
She decided on Stage combatant (So she could get panache back easier)
We are coming up to level 8, the list for her this time looks like this:
each one I am including +/- on
Without knowing your financial situation:
Advance Class should be the only one you "NEED". Espesialy if you emphasise the full BAB/Warrior aspect with spells being a sideline
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