What Other Races Do You Want to See More Support?

[Richard Moore]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Just a quick note, I started having conversations with writers for some races on this list.

I'm one of those writers, btw. =D

I see quite a few races named in this thread that I'd like to work with (much love for lizardfolk here, in case you couldn't tell from my avatar!), but we will likely start with the most popular ones and go more exotic as we see how the product line performs.

[Orthos]

I'll toss my hat in for Gnolls as well, I can roll with them =)

[MMCJawa]

Gnolls might be cool, but IIRC there are already at least 2 different 3pp books on gnolls, one from Kobold Press and one from Super Genius Game. Might be better to focus on a race with less coverage.

[Zhayne]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Green Smashomancer wrote:

I'm going to add Gnoll, Lizardfolk, Wyvaran, Tengu, Hobgoblin, Android, and I'll toss in Darkfolk for the sake of rounding out what I realize is mostly team evil. And they're cool, that's the most important reason.

I was about say, "wyvaran, tengu, and androids are not necessarily on team evil," but then I noticed you said mostly. So never mind.

'Team evil' is a personal decision, not a racial one. :p

[KingmanHighborn]

Especially when Gnolls and Lizardfolk can be good too.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Current total:
Races
Android 5
Bugbear 1
Caliban 1
Catfolk 7
Centaurs 1
Changeling 5
Dark Folk 3
Derro 3
Gathlain 1
Ghorans 2
Gillmen 2
Gnoll 4
Grippli 1
Hobgoblins 1
Kitsune 4
Kobold 3
Kuru 1
Lawful-descendent native outsider 1
Lizardfolk 1
Merfolk 4
Mites 1
Monkey Goblins 2
Morlocks 1
Ogrekin 2
Ratfolk 3
Samsaran 6
Serpentfolk 2
Shabti 2
Sinspawn 1
Skinwalker 3
Skulk 1
Strix 1
Suli 3
Syrinx 3
Troglodytes 1
Tengu 6
Trox 3
Vanara
Vishkanya 8
Wayang 1
Wikkawak 1
Wyrwoods 4
Wyvarans 7

*Standard disclaimer about how some might not be open content, I'll check into it when I get back from vacation.

I'll update classes next time.

[M. Balmer]

I would like to see Bugbear, Morlock, Wyvaran, Gnoll, Centaur, Hobgoblin, Ogrekin, Ratfolk, and Strix, please.

Edit: and Spider Goblins, if possible.

[CelticMutt]

Androids, Skinwalkers, Gathlain (the winged fairies from ARG & Bestiary 4), Strix, Ratfolk, Catfolk, and some kind of snake-man (whether it be Vishkanyas, Nagajis, or playable Serpent Folk) would be be absolute top picks. Roughly in that order.

In the case of Catfolk, there's one thing in particular I'd like to see. In Bestiary 3 they're shown with a mostly human/elven style head, while in the ARG they had actual cat heads. I'd like to see something exploring the idea that both exist with one being the main race and the other a sub-race, or something like that. Complete with alternate racial abilities.

As much as I like Kitsune, and understand the appeal of Gnolls and Tengu, I have to agree with MMCJawa. All three have already seen a pretty good amount of love from 3pp sources so far. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing more, I just think they should be lower priority.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

When you say Ogrekin, do you mean a half-ogre or do you mean a breed of ogre that are balanced to be a playable race or something else?

[Oceanshieldwolf]

I thought Ogrekin was a PF thing. They are in the Hook Mountain Massacre Adventure from memory if not a Bestiary...

[EDIT - Bestiary 2, p 204]

[Oceanshieldwolf]

Ogrekin on the PRD...

[Barong]

Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Gnoll, Wyvaran, Ogrekin, and a good version of the bugbear.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Ogrekin on the PRD...

Well that is a template to be added to an existing race. Would you like this turned into a standard race or a keep it as a template?

[Xzaral]

Samsaran, Suli and android for my votes.

[Laurial]

Skinwalkers(!!!!!), Lizardfolk, Serpentfolk

edit: forgot androids

[Dale McCoy Jr]

So asking about Classes, what classes do you want to possibly have archetypes/spells/etc for as well as definitely include favored class options for? Starting with Paizo's classes, we are definitely supporting:
All Pathfinder Core Rulebook classes
All APG Classes, and
Magus

But we want to know if you want to see support for:

• Gunslinger
  
• Samauri/Ninja
  
• All ACG classes
  

[Oceanshieldwolf]

I think there are plenty of archetypes for Gunslingers. But not nearly enough for Ninja and Samurai, or for that matter Antipaladin.

And yes, of course, ACG classes. ;)

[Kitsune Knight]

I would want to see more done with Aasimar, Catfolk, Fetchling, Ifrit, Oread, Ratfolk, Tengu, Sylph, Undine, Changlings, Suli, Kitsune, Androids, and Ghorans.

I would also like to see ACG support as well as more stuff for Ninja, Samurai, and Antipaladins. However, I think Gunslingers have gotten plenty of love in comparison to the others and don't really need more at this point.

[Set]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

But we want to know if you want to see support for:

• Gunslinger
  
• Samauri/Ninja
  
• All ACG classes
  

I recently noodled around with the idea of using the ninja as a chassis to build a Kellid witch-hunter sort of character, and it might be neat to see other sorts of non-faux-Asian uses of the ninja (or samurai). Using the ninja to represent a faux-Persian Hashashin (disappear in a cloud of hashish smoke!), or some other form of supernaturally stealthy assassin, could be funky, and the samurai reflavored to be a Mameluke could be a different way to open up that class to a different culture.

The ninja's ki being reflavored to be a pool of magical energy (for a witch or sorcerer-themed 'magic assassin') or psychic energy, could be a neat way to radically change the 'ninja,' eliminating the Asian weapon choices with something more appropriate to whatever culture it represents (Persian/Qadiran, Osirioni/Egyptian (throwing scarabs instead of shuriken, with 'switchblade' sharpened 'wings' popping out of the harmless jewelry-looking item?), Mwangi/African, Ulfen/Viking/Celtic, etc.)

Gunslinger variants that work based off of the bow, sling, crossbow, or even thrown weapons (such as shuriken, darts, daggers, etc.) seem like an obvious way to go. One based off of melee weapons, similar to how the swashbuckler uses panache instead of grit, like a PF version of the old Kensai kit / PrC from AD&D, could be an interesting tweak.

A Magus variant that can fight and use spell combat while holding a pair of daggers, or a staff (traditional wizard weapons). Instead of being a 'fighter / magic-user,' it's more of a magic-user who uses their magic to enhance their wizardly fighting options, and not an armored dude with a sword that has a few spells. Perhaps even a ranged 'dagger magus' variant-on-the-variant, or a wider range of potential 'ranged magi' using darts, thrown weapons, crossbows, etc.

Edit: Ah, *racial* archetypes. My bad!

Certainly, the idea of how to integrate the culturally specific samurai and ninja into races like the elf and dwarf, as well as more exotic races, without falling back on the 'Japanese elves' notion, could be one way to go. A non-Asian samurai archetype based on dwarven clan loyalties, or a non-Asian gnomish 'ninja' that taps into their innate fey magic to enhance their stealth / etc. (magical 'ki') could be avenues to explore.

Using magus to explore races that have both magical and martial traditions, dedicated to specific racial weapons, such as an 'elven curve blade magus' or 'elven bow magus,' or using the gunslinger / swashbuckler mechanic to showcase racial-weapon-focused dwarven waraxe fighters or half-orc falchion masters or halfling sling-specialists could be another way to go.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Set wrote:

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

But we want to know if you want to see support for:

• Gunslinger
  
• Samauri/Ninja
  
• All ACG classes
  

I recently noodled around with the idea of using the ninja as a chassis to build an Ulfen witch-knife sort of character, and it might be neat to see other sorts of non-faux-Asian uses of the ninja (or samurai). Using the ninja to represent a faux-Persian Hashashin (disappear in a cloud of hashish smoke!), or some other form of supernaturally stealthy assassin, could be funky, and the samurai reflavored to be a Mameluke could be a different way to open up that class to a different culture.

The ninja's ki being reflavored to be a pool of magical energy (for a witch or sorcerer-themed 'magic assassin') or psychic energy, could be a neat way to radically change the 'ninja,' eliminating the Asian weapon choices with something more appropriate to whatever culture it represents (Persian/Qadiran, Osirioni/Egyptian, Mwangi/African, Ulfen/Viking/Celtic, etc.)

Gunslinger variants that work based off of the bow, sling, crossbow, or even thrown weapons (such as shuriken, darts, daggers, etc.) seem like an obvious way to go. One based off of melee weapons, similar to how the swashbuckler uses panache instead of grit, like a PF version of the old Kensai kit / PrC from AD&D, could be an interesting tweak.

I think you misunderstand (or I didn't explain well, either way) but I mean racial archetypes, racial variations, etc. So unless a bow-variant gunslinger is closely tied to the race, it probably won't be done in this project.

[Nate Z]

Changlings. A thousand times changlings.

Followed closely by android and the alien races from "People Of The Stars."

Basically anything but the core 7 and tiefling and aasimar.

Also, if you want to make more "animal races," I'll love them forever. Seeing the ursine listed in the "Book of Heroic Races Compendium" makes me all the more tempted to buy it (even though I bought most of the pdfs in your "not making it to Paizocon" sale).

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Set wrote:

Certainly, the idea of how to integrate the culturally specific samurai and ninja into races like the elf and dwarf, as well as more exotic races, without falling back on the 'Japanese elves' notion, could be one way to go. A non-Asian samurai archetype based on dwarven clan loyalties, or a non-Asian gnomish 'ninja' that taps into their innate fey magic to enhance their stealth / etc. (magical 'ki') could be avenues to explore.

Using magus to explore races that have both magical and martial traditions, dedicated to specific racial weapons, such as an 'elven curve blade magus' or 'elven bow magus,' or using the gunslinger / swashbuckler mechanic to showcase racial-weapon-focused dwarven waraxe fighters or half-orc falchion masters or halfling sling-specialists could be another way to go.

In my opinion, elves and dwarves and all the other races in the core rulebook are well covered.

Well, I guess that is just my opinion. Do others feel the same way?

[Secret Wizard]

I do feel the core races are well covered, as well as some non-core races, like Tieflings, Aasimar, Orcs and, arguably, Catfolk and Tengu. They got a good number of feat lines and very solid race-specific build options.

ACG classes are very good - I think that it would be a BETTER idea to forget about core classes and go full on ACG classes since they currently have little support.

Gunslinger I don't feel too hot about, Samurai and Ninja are nice but you need to try to change the flavor a GREAT DEAL, just as much as Archaelogist changes Bard in terms of evocative power. Don't just go "Kurokage (Tiefling Archetype)". Ninjas are already supposed to be shadows... try to find something that creates a different idea altogether.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Latest Round of Race Votes:
Aasamar 1
Alien Races 1 (I'm willing to bet these are non-open, but I'll check)
Android 10
Bugbear 3
Caliban 1
Catfolk 10
Centaurs 2
Changeling 7
Dark Folk 3
Derro 3
Fetchlings 1
Gathlain 2
Ghorans 3
Gillmen 2
Gnoll 6
Grippli 1
Hobgoblins 2
Ifrit 1
Kitsune 5
Kobold 3
Kuru 1
Lawful-descendent native outsider 1
Lizardfolk 2
Merfolk 4
Mites 1
Monkey Goblins 2
Morlocks 2
Nagajins 1
Ogrekin 4
Oread 1
Ratfolk 7
Samsaran 7
Serpentfolk 4
Shabti 2
Sinspawn 1
Skinwalker 5
Skulk 1
Spider Goblins 1
Strix 4
Suli 5
Sylph 1
Syrinx 3
Troglodytes 1
Tengu 7
Trox 3
Undine 1
Vanara 2
Vishkanya 9
Wayang 1
Wikkawak 1
Wyrwoods 4
Wyvarans 9

Paizo Classes
ACG Classes 4
Anti-Paladin 2
Gunslinger 0
Ninja/Samurai 3

Pathfinder Compatible Classes
(DSP) Ultimate Psionics Classes (note, all Psionics Unleashed Classes included) 1
(DSP) Akashic Mysteries 1
(DSP) Path of War Classes 2
(S/RGG) Magister 1
(S/RGG) Shadow Assassin 1
(S/RGG) Time Thief/Warden 1
(S/RGG) Witch Hunter 1
(S/RGG) Other (Specify) 1

[Orthos]

+1 for ACG classes.
+1 for Ninja/Samurai, doubly so if the archetypes open up some newly-flavored options to fit non-asian themed races.

Heck, why not, +1 for Antipaladin too.

Other classes... already mentioned but for posterity's sake Dreamscarred with their Psionics, Path of War, and Akashic Mysteries.

[Richard Moore]

Orthos wrote:

Heck, why not, +1 for Antipaladin too.

Consider me a +2. \=D

[Shadowlord]

Fetchling and Android.

[Necromancer]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Latest Round of Race Votes:

[...]
Paizo Classes
ACG Classes 4
Anti-Paladin 2
Gunslinger 0
Ninja/Samurai 3

Put me down for a vote per each class. Especially the gunslinger.

[MMCJawa]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Alien Races 1 (I'm willing to bet these are non-open, but I'll check)

Kasatha are in Bestiary 4. I assume Triaxian, Android, and LaShunta are open content since they are on the D20pfsrd, although the setting specific material has been sort of scrubbed from them.

[The Poshment]

I vote for Undines, Kitsune, Sulis and my absolute favourite: Svirfneblins.

[Green Smashomancer]

Ooh, classes? I personally wanna see more archetypes for all 3 alternate classes, if we're talking racial archtypes, I'd love to see an Orc Samurai archetype. Burning loyalty to the tribe and all.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Green Smashomancer wrote:

Orc Samurai

So I'm assuming that is a vote for more orc details.

[robert best 549]

Can I make my vote for all the previously mentioned races. Though kitsune, tengu, catfolk and tanooki(and any other youkai are included lol) are big time votes for me. Androids as well, although since fires of creation and all that might not be as big a deal to add.

[Set]

Random small races that don't get much play;

Mites
Vegepygmies

[Xzaral]

Might be a tad more specific than what you're looking for, but archtypes that take advantage of the Samsaran reincarnation would be interesting. Like maybe bladebound magus (or the arcanist version) where the blade shared a former incarnation. Possibly something similar with the Samsaran and the summoner and it's eidolon. The hunter/druid/ranger where the pet is reincarnated with the Samsaran. Those kind of themtatic things which can already be done in flavor, but possibly a mechanical bonus to it.

[Secret Wizard]

What the hell is a Spider Goblin

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Secret Wizard wrote:

What the hell is a Spider Goblin

That's a good question. I figured I'd research that after I get back from vacation. Ask M. Balmer.

[Secret Wizard]

Pretty sure he meant Spider Monkey Goblins :P

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Any other votes of racial details?

Races:
Aasimar 1
Alien Races 1
Android 12
Bugbear 3
Caliban 1
Catfolk 11
Centaurs 2
Changeling 7
Dark Folk 3
Derro 3
Fetchlings 2
Gathlain 2
Ghorans 3
Gillmen 2
Gnoll 6
Grippli 1
Hobgoblins 2
Ifrit 1
Kitsune 7
Kobold 3
Kuru 1
Lawful-descendent native outsider 1
Lizardfolk 2
Merfolk 4
Mites 2
Monkey Goblins 2
Morlocks 2
Nagajins 1
Ogrekin 4
Orc 1
Oread 1
Ratfolk 7
Samsaran 8
Serpentfolk 4
Shabti 2
Sinspawn 1
Skinwalker 5
Skulk 1
Spider-Eye Goblins 1
Strix 4
Suli 6
Svirfneblins 1
Sylph 1
Syrinx 3
Tanooki 1
Tengu 8
Troglodytes 1
Trox 3
Undine 2
Vanara 2
Vegepygmies 1
Vishkanya 9
Wayang 1
Wikkawak 1
Wyrwoods 4
Wyvarans 9

Paizo Classes
ACG Classes 6
Anti-Paladin 6
Gunslinger 1
Ninja/Samurai 6

Pathfinder Compatible Classes
(DSP) Ultimate Psionics Classes (note, all Psionics Unleashed Classes included) 2
(DSP) Akashic Mysteries 2
(DSP) Path of War Classes 3
(S/RGG) Magister 1
(S/RGG) Shadow Assassin 1
(S/RGG) Time Thief/Warden 1
(S/RGG) Witch Hunter 1
(S/RGG) Other (Specify) 1

[M. Balmer]

Spider Goblins are listed in the 3.0 edition 'Creature Collection', a 3rd party product by Sword and Sorcery Studios.

Checking the book, I realized its 'Spider-eye Goblin'. My apologies for the error.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

M. Balmer wrote:

Spider Goblins are listed in the 3.0 edition 'Creature Collection', a 3rd party product by Sword and Sorcery Studios.

Checking the book, I realized its 'Spider-eye Goblin'. My apologies for the error.

Ahh now that sounds familiar.

[Barong]

Ahhhh, how could I forget orcs!?!

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Those asking for more details on Wyrwoods should check this out.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Today's new racial traits write up comes from JBE's own Richard Moore. He brings us a playable lizardfolk.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Just curious, how much interest is there in seeing racial development for half-giants, blues, elans and the other psionic races?

[Orthos]

I could definitely get behind seeing stuff for Maenads. I'm personally not as interested in most of the other psionic races, but I figure if one's going to get touched on might as well do them all, so they've got my vote =)

[Tacticslion]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Just curious, how much interest is there in seeing racial development for half-giants, blues, elans and the other psionic races?

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Now with psionic races. If you are interested in psionic races, please speak up.

Races:
Aasimar 1
Alien Races 1
Android 12
Blue 1
Bugbear 3
Caliban 1
Catfolk 11
Centaurs 2
Changeling 7
Dark Folk 3
Derro 3
Dromite 1
Duergar 1
Elan 1
Fetchlings 2
Gathlain 2
Ghorans 3
Gillmen 2
Gnoll 6
Grippli 1
Half-Giant 1
Hobgoblins 2
Ifrit 1
Kitsune 7
Kobold 3
Kuru 1
Lawful-descendent native outsider 1
Lizardfolk 2
Maenad 2
Merfolk 4
Mites 2
Monkey Goblins 2
Morlocks 2
Nagajins 1
Ogrekin 4
Ophiduan 1
Orc 2
Oread 1
Ratfolk 7
Samsaran 8
Serpentfolk 4
Shabti 2
Sinspawn 1
Skinwalker 5
Skulk 1
Spider-Eye Goblins 1
Strix 4
Suli 6
Svirfneblins 1
Sylph 1
Syrinx 3
Tanooki 1
Tengu 8
Troglodytes 1
Trox 3
Undine 2
Vanara 2
Vegepygmies 1
Vishkanya 9
Wayang 1
Wikkawak 1
Wyrwoods 4
Wyvarans 9
Xeph 1

Paizo Classes
ACG Classes 6
Anti-Paladin 6
Gunslinger 1
Ninja/Samurai 6

Pathfinder Compatible Classes
(DSP) Ultimate Psionics Classes (note, all Psionics Unleashed Classes included) 2
(DSP) Akashic Mysteries 2
(DSP) Path of War Classes 3
(S/RGG) Magister 1
(S/RGG) Shadow Assassin 1
(S/RGG) Time Thief/Warden 1
(S/RGG) Witch Hunter 1
(S/RGG) Other (Specify) 1

[Matrix Dragon]

Hmmm....

Kitsune, Tengu, Skinwalkers, Wyvarans.

[Tacticslion]

If I actually listed the races I want to see more of, it would be "all of them".

However, barring that, I'm going to mention some of my favorites below:

.
.

All of the following in a psionic concept, as well as a general one:

- Aasimar Also, a possible Aeon-inspired aasimar-like creature?

- Blue Especially how this impacts goblin society; how they are different from their fellow; any goblins other than just plain goblins, i.e. hobgoblins and bugbears

- Changeling Dreamweaver just screams 'psionic' to me, and I'm curious how this interacts with their natural witchcraft - do they, for example, have a hex-granting psionic archetype? Unique powers based off of the Dreamweaver hexes? Etc.

- Darkfolk, Fetchlings In general, and how these two interact.

- Dromite Do they have any interesting non-psionic archetypes?

- Duergar You do not mess with them. Yes, please.

- Elan Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~!

- Maenad Boo-yah!

- Mites PSIONIC. MITES. That is all. (Well, also witches, druids, and monks, maybe. And non-evil mites. And clean mites treated well, physically, to remove most disease/pimple/etc-caused deformities. Aasimar mites. Hee-hee. These guys are so adorable!

- Samsaran The whole reincarnation thing is really fascinating. Something that blends their spirituality, nature-themed proclivities, and psionics with their reincarnating nature could be amazing.

- Skulk I've always loved the idea of these guys.

- Strix Similarly.

- Svirfneblin Okay, I admit: I had a psionic svirfneblin player in a campaign I ran one time. I've always loved the idea ever since.

- Wyrwood Little. Wood. Psychic. (Well, psionic.) :D

EDIT: for clarity and ease of reading.