Dex question

[Kazumetsa]

Would the Dex bonus from Snakeskin Tunic and Belt of Incredible Dexterity stack?

[ShadowcatX]

Nope.

[Kazumetsa]

Noted and thank you!

It's probably safe to assume it won't stack with any other Dex enhancements.

[Kazaan]

Not in the first 24 hours of the Belt being worn because they're both enhancement bonuses at that point. After 24 hours, however, the Dexterity bonus from the Belt is considered a Permanent Bonus, actually raising the base Dex score and then the enhancement bonus from the tunic would apply on top of that.

[Are]

To expand on that answer: The reason they don't stack is because they're both enhancement bonuses, and bonuses of the same type don't stack.

The exception to that is dodge bonuses.

[Are]

Kazaan wrote:

Not in the first 24 hours of the Belt being worn because they're both enhancement bonuses at that point. After 24 hours, however, the Dexterity bonus from the Belt is considered a Permanent Bonus, actually raising the base Dex score and then the enhancement bonus from the tunic would apply on top of that.

This is wrong. The bonus from the belt is always an enhancement bonus, regardless of if it's temporary or permanent.

[Speaker for the Dead]

Kazaan wrote:

Not in the first 24 hours of the Belt being worn because they're both enhancement bonuses at that point. After 24 hours, however, the Dexterity bonus from the Belt is considered a Permanent Bonus, actually raising the base Dex score and then the enhancement bonus from the tunic would apply on top of that.

I don't think so. You treat the enhancement as temp bonus for the first 24 hours but even after that period if you take the belt off you lose the bonus. The two enhancements probably don't stack.

[ShadowcatX]

Kazaan, despite a bonus being permanent, it is still a bonus, and enhancement bonuses do not stack with enhancement bonuses.

[Drejk]

Enhancement is bonus type. Permanent/temporary are not bonus types but description if they lasted for 24+ hours or shorter.

[Kazaan]

How so? Temporary bonus to Dex is an enhancement bonus to Ranged Attack rolls, Dex skill checks, initiative checks, Reflex Saves, AC, CMD, and CMB if you're tiny or smaller. Permanent bonus to Dex actually changes your base score in the same way that gaining an attribute point every 4 levels changes the actual score. In the case of an item granting a permanent attribute bonus, it can be lost if the item is removed, but that makes it no less a permanent bonus to the stat itself rather than just subordinate parameters associated with the stat.

PRD wrote:

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

In this case, it's no longer an enhancement bonus. Before 24 Hours, a character with 16 Str and an item granting +2 enhancement to Str still has 16 Str and a +2 enhancement to Str which yields certain increased abilities. But after 24 hours, they actually have 18 Str, period, and everything is completely re-calculated based on the new Str value (ie. encumbrance).

[Malachi Silverclaw]

Belt of Giant Strength wrote:

The belt grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Strength.

It's starts as a temporary enhancement bonus to strength, and after 24 hours becomes a permanent enhancement bonus to strength, but at all times remains an enhancement bonus to strength. It doesn't stack.

[Are]

Kazaan, that doesn't change the fact that it's an enhancement bonus.

Look at the belt of giant strength:

PRD wrote:

This belt is a thick leather affair, often decorated with huge metal buckles. The belt grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Strength of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn.

Note how the exception is for the first 24 hours, where the granted bonus is treated differently than normal, not for the general use. The only difference between temporary and permanent is how the bonus is applied, not what kind of bonus it is.

[DM_Blake]

What the others have said is correct.

The belt is a temporary enhancement bonus to DEX in the first 24 hours and then it is a permanent enhancement bonus to DEX after that. It's always an enhancement bonus.

If you wear the belt for 24 hours and then a spellcaster casts Cat's Grace on you, the spell won't stack with your belt either - you only get whichever one is higher.

Kazaan wrote:

In this case, it's no longer an enhancement bonus. Before 24 Hours, a character with 16 Str and an item granting +2 enhancement to Str still has 16 Str and a +2 enhancement to Str which yields certain increased abilities. But after 24 hours, they actually have 18 Str, period, and everything is completely re-calculated based on the new Str value (ie. encumbrance).

No, they still have a 16 STR enhanced to 18 through a permanent magical enhancement. Note that in this case, "permanent" means "in effect until something causes it to go away, like antimagic, dispel magic, or just taking the belt off (e.g. sundering it)".