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Ok, I'll just double-back on one of my suggestions.
How about an AP where a dragon is the main antagonist?
I know that this might lead to getting a mythical red dragon instead of another dragon kind, I know that dragons aren't that common in Golarion, I know that dragons are often overused... but, still...
- Take a dragon
- Polymorph into a humanoid for disguise
- Have him, or her, look for a shattered artifact across the world. The point is to emphasize on a dragon's obsession for wealth and power.
- Give the dragon minions, such as a die-hard kobold tribe, a half-dragon offspring and even lesser dragons, because the main dragon has the Orb of Dragonkind.
- ???
- PROFIT!
Smallish black dragons and half-black-dragon template creatures and black-scaled kobolds are running riot over communities outside of Magnimar, coming from the Mushfens.
After dealing with all this black dragon stuff, including the adult black dragons who are the source of all these half-dragon critters, and bumper crop of young black dragons, it is discovered that the true architect of this infestation is a *red* dragon, with an Orb of Dragonkind (black), who has been compelling the shiftless local blacks into becoming a more organized threat, using them to soften up Magnimar, which he intends to utterly dominate (and covertly rule), once the blacks are beaten down.
The red, you see, has recruited his own black dragon slaying party of 'adventurers' (led by his own half-red-dragon spawn, who poses as a dragon disciple/dragon-bloodline sorcerer, while actually being a different sort of sorcerer/eldritch knight) who are supposed to 'save Magnimar' from the black dragon plague, and move into beloved leadership roles in the city.
If only those pesky PCs weren't stealing his chosen party's thunder, saving the day before they even arrive!
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Given the current AP includes an Orb of Red Dragonkind? Not going to happen.
Besides. Blue Dragons are the manipulators. A Mythic Great Wyrm Blue Dragon would be a nasty foe for a group of adventurers, especially seeing an Ancient Blue Dragon is CR 18. Give it Summon Monster spells and a Rod of Extend Spell? It can summon minions to fight for it that it can summon for several rounds before the players reach it. And if it used an Expanded Antimagic Shell, then it has DR 20 which the players' magic weapons can't penetrate (being not magical in the AMS).
More amusingly for it, the dragon could even have corrupted a couple of good-aligned dragons at an earlier point (maybe using several Helms of Opposite Alignment) and illusions to make it appear as a Silver dragon or the like, so the party isn't even entirely sure what they are facing.
Ok, I'll just double-back on one of my suggestions.
How about an AP where a dragon is the main antagonist?
I know that this might lead to getting a mythical red dragon instead of another dragon kind, I know that dragons aren't that common in Golarion, I know that dragons are often overused... but, still...
- Take a dragon
- Polymorph into a humanoid for disguise
- Have him, or her, look for a shattered artifact across the world. The point is to emphasize on a dragon's obsession for wealth and power.
- Give the dragon minions, such as a die-hard kobold tribe, a half-dragon offspring and even lesser dragons, because the main dragon has the Orb of Dragonkind.
- ???
- PROFIT!
I actually have a BBEG in my campaign of a Mature Adult Underworld Dragon who has spent the past 400 years in the shape of a dark elf. During this time he has acquired some class levels in Monk. He is pretty nasty.
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Tian Xia.
Written by writers who are knowledgeable about things chinoiserie, and actually have a real story to turn into adventures, not adventures to ram into a chinoiserie-type of story.
I strongly hope the writers will consult the three Master Li/Number Ten Ox novels written by Barry Hughart. These books should be an absolute must for anyone attempting to write adventures based in this genre.
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what about a full Goblin adventure path.
Will the Licktoad tribe rise to glory or fall into obscurity. Your party will decide the fate of Varisia's goblins.
Well with the outline of Hells Rebels coming a little into focus i doubt a Galt AP is unlikely in the near future. so i guess i need to find a new region to back for an Adventure Path:(
I would like an underwater / anti-aboleth AP. This would be an excellent time to flesh out the Mordant Spire elves, and very possibly to investigate Hermea as well. It would also be an opportunity to have LN and LG antagonists for at least part of the AP.
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One big thing I'd like for new APs is greater attention to the flow of the adventure. I like to keep my mind open, but there are a many times in that it seems like the idea is "oh this will be the spaceship AP" and then the story derps around not in spaceships. Or it's like "here, lead a crusade against demons!" and then you don't lead crusades, you go on friendly missions to planar cities. To often it makes me ends up feeling like the original premise half-heartedly met at best in favor of really generic adventures. As much as I want to like the APs (or even as much as I like particular APs), too often, lately, I find myself just getting irritated with the lack of APs hitting their target premise.
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I'm not posting this to invalidate your concern, but I have to say that we do try really hard to manage expectations. To use one of your examples, Iron Gods wasn't supposed to be "the spaceship AP." It was designed to be an Adventure Path that explored Numeria and dealt with the idea of how technology and faith interplay, and I think we hit that mark.
One thing I can't control is when people read X and want Y, then are upset that X wasn't Y. That said, we will continue to manage expectations and give as clear a vision for the Adventure Path as possible (without giving too many spoilers up front).
Well i for one was disappointed at how few Mummies there were in Mummy's Mask!
and also would it hurt to get a few more Masks, just a few
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Oh i Forgot
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I'm not posting this to invalidate your concern, but I have to say that we do try really hard to manage expectations. To use one of your examples, Iron Gods wasn't supposed to be "the spaceship AP." It was designed to be an Adventure Path that explored Numeria and dealt with the idea of how technology and faith interplay, and I think we hit that mark.
One thing I can't control is is people read X and want Y, then are upset that X wasn't Y. That said, we will continue to manage expectations and give as clear a vision for the Adventure Path as possible (without giving too many spoilers up front).
Adam, I think it would behoove Paizo to include a thematic topic sentence like the one you've written there in the text describing each AP on this page. It might alleviate some of the disparity between what Paizo is intending their APs to be about and what the audience thinks they're getting. The difference between the "spaceship AP" and the "interplay between technology and faith AP" isn't as big as the difference between, say, what Council of Thieves was written as (sometimes described as helping the nazis stop the mafia) and what the audience went into to it expecting (Hell's Rebels).
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I'm not posting this to invalidate your concern, but I have to say that we do try really hard to manage expectations. To use one of your examples, Iron Gods wasn't supposed to be "the spaceship AP." It was designed to be an Adventure Path that explored Numeria and dealt with the idea of how technology and faith interplay, and I think we hit that mark.
One thing I can't control is when people read X and want Y, then are upset that X wasn't Y. That said, we will continue to manage expectations and give as clear a vision for the Adventure Path as possible (without giving too many spoilers up front).
You may have hit the mark, but I think you should have communicated your intent a little better.
On more than one occasion this was being presented as an homage to Gamma World or more closely, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, which it wasn't. In effect those things were minor background and window dressing to a story about about divine ascendancy, which is on par with return of the Ancient Big Bad (RotRL, CotCT, etc) which has already been done in other APs. This could have gone several other ways, better ones imo - the threat of Ancient Technology that should not be tampered with as the BBEG vs. an AI, a Big Liftoff or inversely a Return of the Masters. Maybe it was the threat in the AP, Unity just didn't seem scary or nefarious as far as demented AI threats go.And I get it it, Iron Gods being the title and all. I guess based upon how much S3 was being touted as an influence pre-release I was expecting more "Iron" and less "Gods", because the emphasis on the latter is in every other AP. I think many of us were waiting for an "Iron" that we didn't care about some of the other aspects, but the AP was not compelling. Again, this could have been the way Unity was set up as a foe - with the AI not even feeling like a threat.
I was pretty let down with IG. I held off any criticism till it ran its course, but in the end it was (for me) a big let down. After Lords of Rust I just stuck with the AP because the maps could be recycled for other games.
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Auxmalous, I think that is exactly what Daigle is talking about.
Prior to the release of Iron Gods, was the idea that this was an homage to Barrier Peaks stated by him, James Jacobs, or Rob McCreary? Or was that just inferred by the community and re-stated on the boards?
JJ primarily, and tbh he injected some of those elements (Pushing Buttons I & II) in his preface for one of the AP installments. But he also said that he was utilizing that space to add in that extra content which makes me wonder why it wasn't included in the body of work to begin with.
I think in this case, the writers or dev team really didn't look to their source/influnce material beyond superficially - if at all.
An AP can be an homage without that being the focus. Actually, I see Numeria as the homage, and Iron Gods as an AP using elements of that regional setting to tell its own tale.
And that's the first time that I've seen a complaint about extra material in the AP! The developers have always said that it's difficult to cut down the material to fit the alotted page count, so if someone "cheats" by putting some of it in the preface, I'm certainly not complaining.
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An AP can be an homage without that being the focus. Actually, I see Numeria as the homage, and Iron Gods as an AP using elements of that regional setting to tell its own tale.
And that's the first time that I've seen a complaint about extra material in the AP! The developers have always said that it's difficult to cut down the material to fit the alotted page count, so if someone "cheats" by putting some of it in the preface, I'm certainly not complaining.
I wasn't complaining, the front matter should have been in the book. The notion behind "Pushing buttons I & II" should have been the design consideration of the APs instead of the APs "written as usual".
It should have been the design consideration of the entire AP series and the Technology guide. The technology guide at least did have the "Time Worn" section an rules - and probably developed by JJ.I was just disappointed that a core concept (random elements, unknown technology) has to be snuck in the Front Matter section when instead it should (if they wanted it be an homage) be part of the core design.
Numeria is not an homage to S3 or Gamma World - if it is, it's unrecognizable as such. Maybe an homage to some swords and lasers sci-fi, but not GW or S3. If anything a few of the complexes should have felt like S3 (an actual downed space ship) but I wasn't feeling it.
Hey, if people liked this and felt it hit the mark - great, I'm just expressing my opinion as consumer who bought all six installments, supplemental map packs/flip map and the technology guide to support this "unconventional" AP series and I was disappointed. Hoped for more or a payoff and it never came.
Numeria is not an homage to S3 or Gamma World - if it is, it's unrecognizable as such. Maybe an homage to some swords and lasers sci-fi, but not GW or S3. If anything a few of the complexes should have felt like S3 (an actual downed space ship) but I wasn't feeling it.
Lords of Rust has a decidedly Gamma World feel to it to me.
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Scrapwall yes, Whiskifiss yes - Smilers - sort of.
Most of the rest of the NPCs no. Every aspect of Hellion (Demon Faced AI and NPCs) no. The orc with chainsword felt more WH40k.
The Skeletal Technicians were a nice nod to FO:New Vegas.
You are right though, Scrapwall is probably the closest thing to GW in all 6 of the books.
Not saying that are not sci-fi elements inspired by other sources in the AP series, just not many from the inspirational material referenced pre-release. This can go to the writers who wrote each installment to the overall AP concept/dev team.
I was actually thinking of jumping on board with Giantslayer - but the major letdown with IG made me assume that they would take similar deviations/design choices (aka, ones that I won't like) with GiantSlayer. It gets pitched as being a sort of old school tribute/homage (G1-3) and giant rumble, but I think it's safe to assume that it won't even feel remotely close upon completion.
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I would like a AP set Geb...maybe restoring or putting to rest Arazni.
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What I would like to personally see... Hmm...
Well, 1) Tian Xia campaign that actually starts in Tian Xia. As in being about playing as natives instead of people from inner sea trekking there.
2) Actual Cthulhu mythos campaign. Quite lot of adventures feature mythos stuff, but I think at some point Paizo should get it out of their system and do full tentacle monster campaign. Shouldn't feature the actual Cthulhu though, maybe Xhamen-Dor or Nyarlahotepth instead.
3) Maybe that could be done by having the adventure to have something to do with Eye of Abendego? I like that location and would like to find more about it and giant storm is good reason for shipwrecking. I mean, imagine getting shipwrecked in Eye of Abendego and finding yourself in strange new location that you will explore for rest of campaign. Maybe that location has only wilderness besides few invidual npcs so AP would have players being cut off from civilization or maybe only civilization that lives in the area speaks language that none of PCs understand. Either way, should be interesting and good challenge for writing.
4)AP in Geb/Nex/Mana Wastes should be interesting... There is good mystery there and interesting weird stuff like mutants, ghorans and quantium golem duo.
5) Darklands AP where you play as Darkland natives. Maybe have adventure later end up in surface or whatever, but yeah, it sounds like interesting perspective flip to play as darkland natives instead of people exploring the strange and scary darklands
6) Really pulpy mad science AP.
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I want to see the kytons get an AP. They really need more attention IMO.
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I want to see the kytons get an AP. They really need more attention IMO.
Oh yeah, forgot kytons D: They are so horrific that they definitely should be used as main focus eventually.
I forgot to list it back there, but I do want plane of shadow ap kinda a lot, and I suppose kytons would be good fit for that
BTW, I saw Event Horizon movie lately... Hmm... Now I want to see a module about kytons on spaceship.
1. Nothing else in Varisia
2. A comedy adventure, like the PCs create and own a brewery or something.
3. Andoran based For Liberty!
4. And yeah a campaign to fight the orc hordes. Big numbers.
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2. A comedy adventure, like the PCs create and own a brewery or something.
Every adventure path can be turned into a comedy, you just need to look at them the right way:-)
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3. Andoran based For Liberty!
I like the idea of an adventure based here also.
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An AP set in a nation that has plenty of arenas and the PC's are gladiators.
Your characters start out just fighting to take one more breath, to survive one more day. Slowly they earn their way out of the fighting pits by strength and guile straight into a web of deadly intrigue that threatens to burn this imperiled nation to ashes.
Oh!
i love that!
GLADIATORS!!!
yep, i'm onboard:p
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An AP set in a nation that has plenty of arenas and the PC's are gladiators.
Your characters start out just fighting to take one more breath, to survive one more day. Slowly they earn their way out of the fighting pits by strength and guile straight into a web of deadly intrigue that threatens to burn this imperiled nation to ashes.
Who knows? You might actually see that in Hell's Rebels. Cheliax has an annual event called the Dies Irae, or Days of Wrath (side note: "dies irae" indicates they speak something akin to Latin) where any slave can fight for their own liberation gladiator style. Their masters cannot deny them entry and victory earns them not only freedom, but a small amount of gold. If they go and do the Dies Irae a second time and win they are awarded a Barony and a lot of gold.
As much as I'd like to see a gladiator AP, I think it is problematic in a lot of ways. One, is integrating spellcasters and the less martial types into such a campaign. The other is just keeping the gladiator theme going as the characters progress into the higher levels; either finding motives to keep them gladiators, or finding motives to get the gladiators out of the arena and into some more world-saving campaign stuff.
That said, I'd love to see it done.
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6. Galt
6th place! really! have i not been using enough exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ami going to have to get a big f++&ing billboard in Redmond saying just
never mind, i'm sure they know whats best:-)
I want an Arcadia AP that does not mirror our Earth's history much at all. Or at least has a very different outcome than our New World/Old World interactions had.
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Under dark scenario with insane Derro, Kyton surgeons working hand in hand with drow flesh warpers, or perhaps a renegade Derro who has stolen some drow secrets. Perhaps a duergar renegade using clockwork and steam technology to undermine towns in search of a terrible artefact - tear of groetus, that slowly corrupts everything creating a vast undead empire or a walking dead zone filled with undead animals and men. Imagine the pcs surprise when they reach a wall of corpses that mark the limits of the artefacts power, then they have to venture beyond to find out what is going on. Could take place anywhere really and be a nice generic adventure.
Nex, Geb, Mana Wastes.
Darklands.
Megadungeon.
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I used to carry money in it, however with the advent of ATM cards, getting married and having two kids, sadly what money makes it into my wallet, soon departs on wings of gossamer
Or, you know, the wife and kids riffle through my pockets after i fall asleep.......
As much as I'd like to see a gladiator AP, I think it is problematic in a lot of ways. One, is integrating spellcasters and the less martial types into such a campaign. The other is just keeping the gladiator theme going as the characters progress into the higher levels; either finding motives to keep them gladiators, or finding motives to get the gladiators out of the arena and into some more world-saving campaign stuff.
That said, I'd love to see it done.
There have been threads and requests for racial focused APs off and on, so why not a class focused one. They would probably be harder to do, but might prove to be interesting. Heck, maybe an AP with some enforced multi-classing where everyone starts as fighters, rogues, monks, etc, and only get access to other classes later. Heck, that could double as the Half-Elf AP too. Any AP that downplays Humans (both as PCs and Opponents) and full spellcasters would be a welcome distraction at this point.
But maybe this is only an MMO thing? Controller-only ITF forming, PST. :)
I want an Arcadia AP that does not mirror our Earth's history much at all. Or at least has a very different outcome than our New World/Old World interactions had.
Agreed. I think that Arcadia has been shoehorned into the "Spanish conquering mexico" trope.
At the very least we could do a "reverse Arcadia" where suddenly ships and advanced armies appear at the edge of the continent. There could be all sorts of homages there - alien invasion (ala Independence Day), seafaring Mongol hordes, working your way through enemy lands to the opposing capitol, etc... etc...
Something like that would be great in giving the Inner Sea a new enemy now that the Worldwound is closed up and Cheliax is taking it on the chin.
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For a blend of Pirates and sorta Arcadia I'd recommend the Razor Coast AP as it has a feel of New World civilizations mixed in with pirates and naval combat. Its a lot of fun!
For me however, I love Mesoamerican lore and inspired fantasy. So if it blends that stuff with the Andoran and Cheliax colonies then HECK YEAH!!!!
At the very least we could do a "reverse Arcadia" where suddenly ships and advanced armies appear at the edge of the continent. There could be all sorts of homages there - alien invasion (ala Independence Day), seafaring Mongol hordes, working your way through enemy lands to the opposing capitol, etc... etc...
Something like that would be great in giving the Inner Sea a new enemy now that the Worldwound is closed up and Cheliax is taking it on the chin.
That's a cool idea. Similar to the Seanchan from the Wheel of Time series invading the main setting continent in the middle of a civil war. Funny, I was just talking to somebody about the WoT on these boards today.
Taldor. We keep reading that Taldor is the mother empire that's slowly crumbling under the weight of its decadence and navel gazing, but I haven't seen much of the inside of Taldor. I wouldn't mind if this involved a conflict with Qadira, as I'd love to read more about that, too, but I really want to see Taldor fleshed out as more than the wellspring from which Cheliax and Andor rose.
Darklands, with a focus on shadowfolk and derro and other weird natives who are not drow elves.
Vudra and the Impossible Kingdoms. Maybe with a dash of Qadira and the oft-hinted at massive empire of Kelesh. Could be a whole Casmaron spanning series, but I'd really like to see more about Vudra.
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APs I'd like to see in the future...
1) Moons of Barsoom/Jungles of Amtor: Sword-and-planet adventures to Akiton and Castrovel, in the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs.
2) Revenge of the Runelords: Sorshen and/or Xanderghul return from their millennia-long slumber! (A sequel to Shattered Star.)
3) The Red Revolution: PCs try to finally bring lasting stability to Galt.
4) The Way South: Exploration adventure in Southern Garund.
5) The Andoren-Chelaxian War: A sequel to Hell's Rebels. With the fall of Kintargo, rebellion sweeps across Cheliax. Andoran siezes the opportunity to strike, and finally bring an end to Infernal Rule in its former Imperial overlord.