Announcing a New Crowdforging Tool


Pathfinder Online

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Goblin Squad Member

Oh my.

Goblin Squad Member

Ya stole my suggestion Guurzak! (shakes fist)

Goblin Squad Member

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Is it just me, or is Jazzlevraz the snazziest name ever? I keep wanting to call him Jazzlevrazzlerazzledazzlesnazzle.

It was actually a bit of an anti-climax when I found out it's short for "Jazz lover AZ" because he's a jazz lover from Arizona...

Goblin Squad Member

Cirolle wrote:
You sound like someone in the 90s saying they are happy they are not on some stupid forum, following their game.

I didn't intend to sound like that (but get off my lawn!), I'm just put off by most forms of pushed communication, so I hunt out what I want to read, rather than having stuff sent. Takes more time, wastes some time, but I've been able to convince myself I'm ahead net/net; whether I am from a more objective viewpoint, who can say? :-p.

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:

@Ryan

I welcome this development and hope it is successful so that a more robust and tied-to-user-account version is put in place/upgraded.

I will register, inform my settlement and friends, and do my part. :)

Now this is someone who has read and gets the spirit of the OP. Thank you :) I could not agree more with the substance and spirit of your post.

CEO, Goblinworks

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I bumped twitter to 30 votes required to trigger a tweet.


Ryan Dancey wrote:
I bumped twitter to 30 votes required to trigger a tweet.

Thank you.

Don't underestimate the PFO crowd.
They love being "heard"


Hey, guys, here's a sensible request. If you notice your item has a very close level of votes—like, twenty on one side, twenty on the other—you should definitely make a thread about it. Odds are you've found something that should be explored.

Goblin Squad Member

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I thought the crowdforging was they(the Devs) would tell us what they plan on doing, and we prioritize.

CEO, Goblinworks

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I bumped it to 40 on review of how many votes things are getting.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Meta: Can the Tweet threshold be "The idea with the highest rating with at least X rating that hasn't been tweeted yet" and set to happen with the desired frequency?

Also: The password complexity requirement scheme is BAD. "Correct horse battery staple" is a significantly more secure password than "1q2w3e". Why is the former rejected?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Ideascale is a nice idea (no pun intended). I think with a little refining and a tie directly to the GW username/account, it'll be invaluable. Couple thoughts while still early in the game.

1. It is unfortunate there's no way to filter based on whether you've cast a vote on the idea or not.
2. With the idea count rapidly expanding, I think we're going to see the ideas with more votes early on continuing to get more and more votes while newer stuff will tend to remain buried in the back because many people won't take the time to scroll through pages and pages of ideas to cast votes on all of them. One possible way to mitigate this is to set the default "order by" to Newest instead of most votes (I know you can change the order by, but most people won't bother to do that).
3. It would be nice to have a 3rd vote option in addition to "yes" and "no" to indicate "no preference"...again, to make it easier to keep up with new ideas coming in.

CEO, Goblinworks

@DeciusBrutus - we have control over neither the twitter gateway or the password system. All I can do is set a threshold number of votes for a tweet (or a threshold number of comments).

WRT the password thing, there's a fetish among people who deal with databases to forbid non-alphanumeric characters (including spaces) in passwords. It is, at this juncture, mostly irrational.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
It was actually a bit of an anti-climax when I found out it's short for "Jazz lover AZ" because he's a jazz lover from Arizona...

That's really disappointing- he's still "jazzle frazz" in my mental voice.

Goblin Squad Member

I need a filter-out-items-I've-already-voted-on as part of the Filter dropdown.

Goblin Squad Member

Iatronas wrote:
I need a filter-out-items-I've-already-voted-on as part of the Filter dropdown.

Yeah, that seems to be a common request. It would be nice if there were also a way to No-Vote an item, so it would drop off the list as well.

Goblin Squad Member

I am having a password/email recognition issue with Ideascale. I'll drop an idea or two in after that resolves. Nice idea though. Crowdforging will be great once the core game is functional.


Whew. We sure got a lot of race suggestions all of a sudden. Goblins are the only ones I started to consider, and I quickly thought better of it.

Haven't we already had a Bestiary races thread that got a negative consensus?

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, but nobody talked about why there is this negative consensus other then because reasons.

Goblin Squad Member

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Why would you inhibit more player customization and options? It makes very little sense to me why additional races (Especially Uncommon races such as Tiefling, Aasimar, and Dhampir) would be prohibited from player choice.

More choice and options = more diverse community. People like having the choice to play what best expresses them. In my opinion the more Race options we have the better. Cash Shop the races and make a profit Goblinworks, because I will buy every single one. I know for a fact that I won't be the only one either.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Also: The password complexity requirement scheme is BAD. "Correct horse battery staple" is a significantly more secure password than "1q2w3e". Why is the former rejected?

Although copying the example directly from the webcomic is probably a bad idea. :P

I think the principle of the comic is sound, in that you are more secure with a longer password. The less-secure example is worse because it is short. If you use as many characters as allowed and as many different types of characters as possible, that would be the strongest available for that site. You should use different passwords for different sites too, so the compromise of one doesn't lead to further problems.

That's a far bigger issue, especially if someone is using the same password for their email account(s) and sites with financial information as they do with trivial stuff, like IdeaScale. Are you really worried that someone will break in and screw up your votes? It's vaguely possible that a spammer could hijack the account to post ads, but creating new accounts is much simpler.

Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:
Why would you inhibit more player customization and options?

Well, why would anyone down-vote on making the game playable for colourblind folks? 4$$#4+$ exist.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:

Why would you inhibit more player customization and options? It makes very little sense to me why additional races (Especially Uncommon races such as Tiefling, Aasimar, and Dhampir) would be prohibited from player choice.

More choice and options = more diverse community. People like having the choice to play what best expresses them. In my opinion the more Race options we have the better. Cash Shop the races and make a profit Goblinworks, because I will buy every single one. I know for a fact that I won't be the only one either.

I think it is more likely that having those races in the game is such a far off priority that they were down voted. Don't be sad dude, you are still #1 in PFO IdeaScale points.... for now.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Banazzlefazzlefofrazzle

You rang?

Goblin Squad Member

Zodd Zerker wrote:
Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:

Why would you inhibit more player customization and options? It makes very little sense to me why additional races (Especially Uncommon races such as Tiefling, Aasimar, and Dhampir) would be prohibited from player choice.

More choice and options = more diverse community. People like having the choice to play what best expresses them. In my opinion the more Race options we have the better. Cash Shop the races and make a profit Goblinworks, because I will buy every single one. I know for a fact that I won't be the only one either.

I think it is more likely that having those races in the game is such a far off priority that they were down voted. Don't be sad dude, you are still #1 in PFO IdeaScale points.... for now.

Very much agree with you there, Zodd. People seem to be aware of the fact that it is not just an idea-tank or a Vote-for-my-ideal-MMO tool but is also about prioritization of features that have a chance of being implemented in the not so distant future. Spamming things that you would like to see at some point and hope others will vote up, will just clutter the tool up.

I agree that the tool as it is set up now, is rather inviting to do just that though. Hopefully at some point we get some real developer-interventions and/or proposals on there, where we can really set our teeth in. Stuff that needs our input, that needs direction and prioritization and is actually within the realm of possibilities as far as development time, funds and coding goes. Only GW knows the ins and outs about that, so currently we keep simply dreaming up our ultimate MMO.

Mind you, I really like some of the ideas on there a lot. They also seem viable, so I hope we can get some devs to chime in on a few of the popular ones. :)

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:
Very much agree with you there, Zodd. People seem to be aware of the fact that it is not just an idea-tank or a Vote-for-my-ideal-MMO tool but is also about prioritization of features that have a chance of being implemented in the not so distant future. Spamming things that you would like to see at some point and hope others will vote up, will just clutter the tool up.

That's why the ability to set a poll of priorities beats a simple yes/no vote.

It makes it explicitly clear that if you vote FOR this option, you are voting to DELAY getting the other items on this list.

Might make some people think twice about pestering for a niche option.

Goblin Squad Member

Snorter wrote:
Tyncale wrote:
Very much agree with you there, Zodd. People seem to be aware of the fact that it is not just an idea-tank or a Vote-for-my-ideal-MMO tool but is also about prioritization of features that have a chance of being implemented in the not so distant future. Spamming things that you would like to see at some point and hope others will vote up, will just clutter the tool up.

That's why the ability to set a poll of priorities beats a simple yes/no vote.

It makes it explicitly clear that if you vote FOR this option, you are voting to DELAY getting the other items on this list.

Might make some people think twice about pestering for a niche option.

I feel like we can trust the Goblinworks team to prioritise their workload. Choosing what to implement is a non-trivial part of the job, and they are the professionals.

So, we should pester all we like - the team is clever enough to figure out if what we want is worth the time required to do it, and schedule it appropriately if it is.

Goblin Squad Member

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Kadere wrote:


I feel like we can trust the Goblinworks team to prioritise their workload. Choosing what to implement is a non-trivial part of the job, and they are the professionals.

So, we should pester all we like - the team is clever enough to figure out if what we want is worth the time required to do it, and schedule it appropriately if it is.

I do not think the idea of crowdforging is to pester them with ideas, so *they* can choose and prioritize. Crowdforging is actually meant so that we, the players can prioritize features that we would like to see implemented first: however these features must be within the realms of possibilities, and GW will have to present us with realistic options that we can then crowdforge. Which should come first, to what extent and such.

They know the limitations and the possibilities, what they can code, what's in the pipeline already, how much funds they have, the man-power; to stop us from fruitlessly dreaming up stuff that is not realistic (yet).

To be honest, what we see at Ideascale right now, is a condensed summary of 1.5 years of Forum-posts, but now with a voting-option.

Fun, but not very usefull.

Within a week we will see proposals like this:
"Weather, what do you think?" and then
"Should it rain a lot?" and then another one;
"Rain should impair vision" and then;
"Will we have changing seasons" and then another one;
"Snow should melt when you cast Fireball".

Not very useful.

Goblin Squad Member

A simple solution would be if you like it, but don't think now is a good time, then dont cast a vote.

The thing gives you the option to vote up, vote down, or not vote at all.

The really easy explanation?
Like: Up Vote
Don't: Down Vote
Anything else: Don't vote

Scarab Sages Goblinworks Executive Founder

I think this is a great system (and actually something I might steal for my own project - thanks GW for leading the way :D).

However, I think there needs to almost be two tiers. First is the community ideas that we all create and everyone can vote on. I do agree this should still be tied into active GW accounts. However, on top of this there should be a second queue of sorts that GW manages where they pull ideas that are high voted by the community or their own ideas and put them up for voting.

The first tier of community ideas would be a good way to see popular ideas that the community want to see. The second tier of GW ideas would be a great way to help prioritize features for implementation. The one thing for the GW ideas I think they should include some other details like rough time/cost estimates as well. Even if it is a simple system like $, $$, $$$ or +,++,+++ for cost and time. This way people have an idea of the balance of things.

Although there may be better tools to accomplish this prioritizing system.

CEO, Goblinworks

Still getting too many tweets. Increased the threshold to 50 votes.

Goblin Squad Member

I do think it would be useful if the Devs would check out some of the pages and explain, in a blurb, if the idea is viable for implementation.

I would also like to see, at a certain point, them taking some of the top voted ones they can implement and put it up for a community vote on the GW site. They could use the Alternative/Ranking method to get the idea everyone wants to see.

Also, would like to see a way to vote for Short/Medium/Long Term priority.

Goblin Squad Member

It would be informative if GW could categorize the ideas by minimal, moderate, or major resource intensity.

Like Lee said identify that low hanging fruit, this will help us know what the implimentation of our ideas will be on development.

Goblin Squad Member

I'd be interested in a couple of things

The first just mentioned above, some kind of idea on GW resource requirements.

Secondly FEEDBACK from voters. A item with 50 yes votes with comments supporting the item and 60 no votes without a single comment as to why people voted no tells that 50 people want something enough to justify it and 60 people really couldn't care less but just decided to vote no for the heck of it.


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Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:

A simple solution would be if you like it, but don't think now is a good time, then dont cast a vote.

The thing gives you the option to vote up, vote down, or not vote at all.

The really easy explanation?
Like: Up Vote
Don't: Down Vote
Anything else: Don't vote

That in turn has its own problems. Players who don't vote usually don't because they don't care. As such, someone who supports something, but wants it to appear a while after EE, still isn't getting to express his real vote.

Goblin Squad Member

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Summersnow wrote:

I'd be interested in a couple of things

The first just mentioned above, some kind of idea on GW resource requirements.

Secondly FEEDBACK from voters. A item with 50 yes votes with comments supporting the item and 60 no votes without a single comment as to why people voted no tells that 50 people want something enough to justify it and 60 people really couldn't care less but just decided to vote no for the heck of it.

Or 25 people said no and one guy votes no with 35 fake accounts. Likely? no. The fact that it's possible, makes it hard for me to look at all of this as being serious. It's a nice exercise, but I hope no real decisions are finalized through this process. I want a system that's similar to this, but more difficult to put your finger on the scale.

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Cheatle wrote:
I do think it would be useful if the Devs would check out some of the pages and explain, in a blurb, if the idea is viable for implementation.

After Alpha, please :)


I am currently downvoting anything I do not believe should be prioritized, whether I like it or not. If this is not how Goblinworks intends for people to vote, I hope they'll find time to clarify at some point (maybe the next time they have to increase the threshold. :P).

Goblin Squad Member

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So... that is where the No vote came from on Sky: Blue? Discuss!!


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It's a lie, obviously. The sky is grayish-black. And it has tentacles, and a bunch of eyes.

Oh, wait, that's a darkmantle.


Being wrote:
So... that is where the No vote came from on Sky: Blue? Discuss!!

It wouldn't be if you guys would vote for adding weather :P

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
So... that is where the No vote came from on Sky: Blue? Discuss!!

The night is not black if you know that it is green,

Goblin Squad Member

I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm really not liking it.


Summersnow wrote:
I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm reallly not liking it.

I am interested in which ideas you are referring to.

Goblin Squad Member

Cirolle wrote:
Summersnow wrote:
I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm reallly not liking it.
I am interested in which ideas you are referring to.

yes please, do clarify

(I've mentioned EVE in two of proposals so if there is any misunderstanding I would love to short it out - for the record I HATE ganking/griefing)

Goblin Squad Member

Summersnow wrote:
I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm really not liking it.

I do not see that at all. I am seeing a lot of dreaming up there though. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:
Summersnow wrote:
I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm really not liking it.
I do not see that at all. I am seeing a lot of dreaming up there though. :)

Dear Tyncale, I get that you think all people are actually voting for an ideal mmo which has nothing to do with this game. However, I want to point out that some of this "dreams" may actually interest the developers and they may consider them for implementation, even sometime in the future.

You may think that you have a very clear picture of what this game is shaping to be - but other may have different "dreams", do not agree with your "version" of priorities, do not participate in this forums, and now they found a tool to express them.

We must not forget that we (I for sure) have literally invested hundreds of dollars in this game, so if the developers throw us a "bone" and let us describe how our ideal version of the game would be, then by all means, I'll jump to the chance.
However, on one issue you are absolutely right: the devs should offer some input/comments on the various ideas, to let people know what is feasible and what not, and if voting down a great idea simply means the voter wants to see it later, or never - because this is NOT clear.

Goblin Squad Member

Yup, it is just people posting their ideas; some of them have some real thought behind them, a lot of them are un-informed, 2-sentence blurbs that go directly against the core premisses of the game.

Luckily most of the proposals get downvoted quit a bit. The things I downvote are pretty much all being downvoted by others heavily too so I guess there's no harm done. I also try to comment as much as I can, with what I think are reasonable, though personal arguments. Sometimes referring to dev-quotes, though Nihimon could be doing a so much better job there. :)

I do upvote quit a bit too, there's some good stuff on there too. I comment on those too. Not sure why this could not all be done on an "Idea" subforum on goblinworks.com though; instead we are still here on this single Paizo forum that is cluttered with Recruitment threads(yup, I'm guilty too) and political banter.

Here's my Main Crowdforging project[HIGH PRIORITY]: Goblinworks forums, with a closed alpha forum (not NDA-ed, but should not be littered with posts from non-alpha players)a General forum and a few subforums(Ideas, Recruitment, Pacts/Alliances). Maybe a polling sub-forum?

Scarab Sages

Summersnow wrote:
I'm noticing some ideas popping up that are little more then thinly disguised attempts to bring the same ganking and griefing techniques used in EVE into PFO and I'm really not liking it.

Actually I sense a lot of EVE features in Ideas, some good others not so goods. I was intreigued with this uprising of EVE game inside PFO. Like if PFO won't add anything new to the sandbox perspective other than EVE did.

But my sense is this, perhaps, because I didn't like EVE too much, and I don't want to play a EVE in elven clothes. I don't want another WoW too, but I was not automatic discard WoW/EVE ideas sumarily. But sometimes ideas seems been forced by "worked in EVE" argument...

I hope Goblinworks know how to equalize what is good/bad for the fun of the PFO.

Goblin Squad Member

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It would be well to keep in mind that both Eve and WoW were complex systems built by thinking people and so is PFO, so as the people designing and the target audience are more specifically similar than the breadth of the human species, so there are going to be similarities.

And if someone has a grounding in Eve that a subject recalls to them they will likely mention that context. It doesn't mean that we're faced with Eve in leather and lace.

Hmmm...

Scarab Sages

Yeah, in the end the ones who will choose to implement any idea or not, it's goblinworks itself. :D

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