Announcing a New Crowdforging Tool


Pathfinder Online

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CEO, Goblinworks

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We have been evaluating tools to help us implement the promises we've been making about Crowdforging. Today, I'd like to introduce you to our first Crowdforging platform test, Ideascale.

We are going to test Ideascale's system and see if it is a good fit for our community and for Paizo & Goblinworks. To begin we're using a very bare-bones site without a lot of customization. If we believe this tool is succeeding we'll be able to improve it over time to make it look and feel more like the rest of our on-line presence. For now, we're sticking with the "out of the box" layout and graphics. The real value is the ideas and not the decoration anyway.

Ideascale works a bit like Reddit. You are able to submit ideas to our Community, associated with various Topics. Those ideas can be reviewed by other users and voted up or down to indicate support for the suggestion. People can also make comments in an attached thread for each idea which will help keep feedback centralized.

Currently we are not paying for the "single sign-on" capability of Ideascale. So you will need to create a new account on Ideascale to participate. There will be no linkage between your Ideascale account and paizo.com or goblinworks.com at this time. So please don't hijack a well known community member's name - we'll have to boot you and we're busy and would rather not have to untangle those kinds of messes.

This is as much an Alpha Test of this tool as the upcoming Alpha Test of the client is. We'll be curious to see how the community responds and how much use the site gets. Our continued use of it will be dependent on how active it becomes.

Without further ado, Here's the link to the Crowdforging tool for Pathfinder Online!

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan, the thumbnail of you on that site doesn't have a beard. I feel like the beard demands more respect... :p

GW is always doing these crazy things to involve the community. Pure madness. You have godly patience and I applaud your efforts to listen to the PFO community's ramblings.

Goblin Squad Member

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Shiny.

Goblin Squad Member

Zodd Zerker wrote:
Ryan, the thumbnail of you on that site doesn't have a beard. I feel like the beard demands more respect...

He looks so smug. :P

Goblin Squad Member

Submitted a test post- looks everything is working as one would expect.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It would be sweet if you could get that wrapped up on the Goblinworks Site. If you choose to go with this system would that be a possibility?

Goblin Squad Member

Depending on how much traffic that site sees, I'm not sure if I want to see every idea created relayed through the @GoblinworksInc Twitter account. For now it's relatively useful to get people onto the site though.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

No doubt, I didn't realize anyone could put in ideas... I thought it was only ideas GW put up. I probably won't use this if I have to wade through 500 ideas to get to something I'm interested in.

Goblin Squad Member

If some similar system is deployed in earnest, I'd like to see robust measures to prevent creating multiple accounts for voting, similar to the LR2's measures. It seems like this site would be trivial to create any number of accounts on to spam voting in order to get their ideas to the top (though admittedly I didn't try yet to test it).

Goblin Squad Member

And some of the ideas would really better stated as a menu of options, rather than "Do you like this, Yes/No" (current example, the naming of in game structures, where a single option has been listed for vote because someone calculated it was the most popular choice on one of the two threads where it was discussed.)

Goblin Squad Member

@Shane
I believe that defeats the spirit of the crowd-forging system. In addition the Devs do have a final say on whether or not ideas are given any merit.

*ninja*

Goblin Squad Member

Oh good, and people win badges for the people who post the most ideas or vote the most or comment the most. That should be awesome.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't understand the context of your previous statement @Caldeathe.

Goblin Squad Member

Could you be more specific? Are you saying being more limiting for who gets to vote would defeat the spirit of crowdforging, or vote-spamming defeats the spirit of crowdforging?

It seems to me like if the point of upvoting or downvoting an idea is to give it a prominent spot and show that the community really likes/dislikes a specific idea, it should actually show the community's opinion. If one guy creates 200 accounts to skew votes than it no longer represents the opinion of the community.

I focus on the up/downvote thing because IMO that seems the only major difference between this forum and that site: this prioritizes ideas by most recent post, that prioritizes ideas by a vote system.

Goblin Squad Member

8 people marked this as a favorite.

Vote-spamming. I kind of wish this was attached to Goblinworks accounts so that only GW accounts with a purchase of the game on some level would allow up-voting/down-voting.

Goblin Squad Member

Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:
Vote-spamming. I kind of wish this was attached to Goblinworks accounts so that only GW accounts with a purchase of the game on some level would allow up-voting/down-voting.

This. Someone that really disagrees with the majority could create many accounts to compensate.

Goblin Squad Member

Then I am in agreement. :)

Goblin Squad Member

While I like the tool I really wish people would actually give a detailed description and spend more then 15 seconds weighing the pro's and con's before posting a topic :-p

Goblin Squad Member

Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:
Vote-spamming. I kind of wish this was attached to Goblinworks accounts so that only GW accounts with a purchase of the game on some level would allow up-voting/down-voting.

[Emphasis mine] I was hoping Ryan's post meant that this would eventually happen. Not having ideas linked to GW accounts seems volatile and open to vote- and idea/content-spamming.

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, I am really wary of this concept as is. Once it gets tied to actual accounts, that's fine. But right now, I could post an idea, and then upvote it tremendously, over any community objection. It makes any consensus reached suspect, even if it was legitimate.

I hope that is the first thing crowdforged.

Goblin Squad Member

Summersnow wrote:
While I like the tool I really wish people would actually give a detailed description and spend more then 15 seconds weighing the pro's and con's before posting a topic :-p

I took a thread that I had posted long ago and presented it forward with a new medium in which to showcase it.

Goblin Squad Member

Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:
I don't understand the context of your previous statement @Caldeathe.

In the context of wading through 500 suggestions to get to the ones that actually matter, and/or have a hope of being implemented, accounts get "rewarded" with badges for posting ideas and for getting the most votes on those ideas. It is likely to encourage both an excess of ideas and vote spamming.

"Ooh! I can get a badge if I create a "yes/no" suggestion vote for everyone of the 19 (so far) suggestions for what should we name the DI buildings"

Goblin Squad Member

In the OP Ryan suggests that they could upgrade to include such account-verifying features, but they have not yet because they're just testing the medium now.

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Currently we are not paying for the "single sign-on" capability of Ideascale. So you will need to create a new account on Ideascale to participate. There will be no linkage between your Ideascale account and paizo.com or goblinworks.com at this time.

So that's good news, if they decide to stick with this.

Goblin Squad Member

Summersnow wrote:

While I like the tool I really wish people would actually give a detailed description and spend more then 15 seconds weighing the pro's and con's before posting a topic :-p

Valid point. I should of posted my bio as well.

Don't judge. I gotta eat too. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
"Ooh! I can get a badge if I create a "yes/no" suggestion vote for everyone of the 19 (so far) suggestions for what should we name the DI buildings"

Oh you rascal you.

Admittedly I had no idea about the badges until I saw you mention them. Also I genuinely counted from both threads and Civic Assets had the most agreement, with 9 different people wanting it. None of the other proposed ideas came close.

I just wanted to quickly test this crowdforging site and the settlement structure thing seemed like an easy way to do so. I am sorry I didn't pick Public Works or Civic Improvements or whatever else you might have wanted.


Yeah, it's really easy to cheat here.

CEO, Goblinworks

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I increased the number of votes required before a topic gets tweeted to 20. We'll keep tweaking that number until we get something that provides a meaningful but not empty thread of tweets.

Goblin Squad Member

Yay! I'm one vote shy of hitting the tweet marker. ;)

Dark Archive Goblin Squad Member

So I just noticed you can vote more then once for each thing

Goblin Squad Member

All you can do is change your vote.

*ninja* You can also remove you vote.

Goblin Squad Member

I agree that this feature needs to be linked quickly to those that are paying and playing.

I have also never been a fan of being able to "like" or "dislike" a comment. I do not think it is necessary, the vote itself is what counts as your opinion, the rest is healthy discussion.

I was actually expecting crowdforging to be somewhat more regulated by GW. I figured they would be posting crowdforging subjects that we can then vote on, and discuss, since they are the ones who know where they are in the development process of certain progressive features, what time they can spend on a feature and whether something is even remotely viable and/or possible.

I am afraid we will get flooded by very unrealistic proposals now, that undoubtedly get a lot of votes, because omg, how *awesome* would that be, but will never see the light of day (at least not in EE).

I am sure having fun voting up and down, and commenting, but not sure how productive this will be. :D

I will also say, that though I am usually a trustworthy guy, I will have a hard time *not* to make 150 ghost-accounts so I can vote down any proposal that wants to instance parts of the game, like Settlements or housing. Sorry Lifedragn :( Well, I wouldn't do it, but just saying. :)


Did it crash?

Goblin Squad Member

Zodd Zerker wrote:
I am sorry I didn't pick Public Works or Civic Improvements or whatever else you might have wanted.

Not even close, Zodd, and sorry if it came across that way.

I think yes/no votes are a terrible way to settle something that has multiple options. It stifles creativity by making it seem the answer is simple. I could as easily have picked "should bard be the next class available." (Had anyone asked that) I agree with that one, but it would be a terrible question that stifles conversation, and leaves the option open for someone to create a dozen (or more) questions like "should mammoth hunters be the next...."

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Ryan

I welcome this development and hope it is successful so that a more robust and tied-to-user-account version is put in place/upgraded.

I will register, inform my settlement and friends, and do my part. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Apparently this has spurred the Lord Regent back into High Action instead of just posting in the recruitment threads :D

Goblin Squad Member

Ideascale confirmed as a Golgotha satellite. Do you even sleep, Wulf?

Goblin Squad Member

Just highly motivated today it seems. (Undead don't sleep)

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So, to turn those whingings into some positive suggestions:

  • Turn off badges if possible. Crowdforging and social media seem incompatible.
  • Enable multi-choice polls
  • Have all suggestions either flow through GW or be anonymous
  • Don't be afraid to quickly kill questions that are utterly impractical or stupid. (Not just lock them, but remove them)

(stopped saying if possible after the first one)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

So, to turn those whingings into some positive suggestions:

  • Turn off badges if possible. Crowdforging and social media seem incompatible.
  • Enable multi-choice polls
  • Have all suggestions either flow through GW or be anonymous
  • Don't be afraid to quickly kill questions that are utterly impractical or stupid. (Not just lock them, but remove them)

(stopped saying if possible after the first one)

After sleeping on it, I was thinking the exact same things would improve this tool immensely.

Goblin Squad Member

If GW wants to allot some of their crowdforging time to having us throw our brains at a blank wall and see what sticks that's fine by me.

They're still building it and I'm sure will have no shortage of Tyncale-style moderated crowdforging questions about what we want next and how things are working once we get to that point.

Goblin Squad Member

I feel like there should be a second vote meter for priority on new feature requests, beyond the "do I want this" measurement that the votes currently stand for.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've used IdeaScale before, and yes, cheating is as trivial as making more accounts... just like the landrush poll on this forum.

Also, after a week or two, spammers start showing up to post their own sort of 'ideas'.

Just create the bedamned GW forums, already.

Goblin Squad Member

Keovar wrote:

I've used IdeaScale before, and yes, cheating is as trivial as making more accounts... just like the landrush poll on this forum.

Also, after a week or two, spammers start showing up to post their own sort of 'ideas'.

Just create the bedamned GW forums, already.

Agreed.

CEO, Goblinworks

Holly smokes! You guys have done a fantastic job! Overnight we got 33 ideas and 1008 votes! That's outstanding!

Goblin Squad Member

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Ryan Dancey wrote:
Holly smokes! You guys have done a fantastic job! Overnight we got 33 ideas and 1008 votes! That's outstanding!

I think this might simply show how much enthusiasm there is surrounding the upbringing of your baby, Ryan. We all want to be that cool uncle/aunt that gave the parents the right ideas to raise the kid right - mostly because we want to see this kid grow up to be awesome.


Ryan Dancey wrote:
Holly smokes! You guys have done a fantastic job! Overnight we got 33 ideas and 1008 votes! That's outstanding!

Please set the twitter limit higher.

as it is now, my twitter is getting spammed.

It is taking up around 75% of my tweets. This is not a good ratio, even if I like PFO a lot.

Goblin Squad Member

Cirolle wrote:
...my twitter is getting spammed.

I'm glad I've never found any interest in Twitter. I used just to think I didn't care whether people know what I'm doing or thinking, but now this is a concrete reason :-).


T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Cirolle wrote:
...my twitter is getting spammed.
I'm glad I've never found any interest in Twitter. I used just to think I didn't care whether people know what I'm doing or thinking, but now this is a concrete reason :-).

Well I am glad you are glad.

I am a hipster and follows more than one game through twitter though.
The burden.

It can be a great way of keeping up with news of things you like, except if one source takes up all of the feed.

You sound like someone in the 90s saying they are happy they are not on some stupid forum, following their game.


Is it just me, or is Jazzlevraz the snazziest name ever? I keep wanting to call him Jazzlevrazzlerazzledazzlesnazzle.

Goblin Squad Member

Banazzlefazzlefofrazzle

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