I think it should be mandatory then that every player should at least be part of a certain faction, that at least has an Enemy faction associated with it. I also think it should be possible to belong to more then one NPC faction, which opens up more danger (and PvP possibilities) but also should give perks(each faction giving a perk, like being part of the merchant faction giving you a slight discount at AH's or something like that). I think this was kinda in the plans anyway, not sure.
Still, I hope someone from NewCorp will take a hard look at all those Blogs and can breathe new life into them. I feel that PFO only scratched the surface of what was explained in the blogs, and I am still hoping that most of it materializes.
I am curious what NewCorp will do with the "funnel of suck" that was supposed to curb griefing and a toxic game environment. :)
Just to make sure that people know what you are talking about, Drogon is looking for a so called "Adventurer Reward", that people who pledged for the second Kickstarter could buy back in 2013 when the pledge manager was live. These grant the receiver of the reward a Destinies Twin perk, amongst others.
(to avoid confusion since these really aren't cards or anything)
I hope you succeed!
Well, Leithlen, hardcore fan from the first hour here too (backed both Kickstarters) and I completely agree with your entire post.
In the past year I have been frequently calling out my frustration at the snailpace of development of this game, not only regarding pushing out content but also regarding bug-squashing, adding polish and updating graphics. So I was asked if I thought the development team was lazy?
No, but the team was obviously very inexperienced and probably could have done with better leadership. 3 years of development, 4-5 million in funding and a team of 20 people should have produced more then what we have now. I used to find excuses myself, like they are trying totally new stuf with the one-world Hex thing and such and I am sure those were major hurdles. But things like a workable UI, some water in the rivers, some more attention to graphical detail of the world always kept lacking. A more experienced team would have produced a new monster model every month. The fact that monsters and NPC's were still static and had no pathing also was a major downer that should have been adressed much sooner. Guards and trainers should have gotten actual names as to lessen the generic feel of the game, which was a big problem too. There are like a thousand fantasy-name generators out there, so this does not seem like breaking new ground that would have to take months to implement. No data-tracking tools so we ended up with knee-jerk changes to a lot of core systems like combat, nodes, escalations and such.
I also feel that the concept is still intact, and up for grabs. So my only hope is that a seasoned publisher can strike a deal with Paizo/Lisa and can put a seasoned development team to work on this concept.
Which would probably mean scrapping what we have now. Maybe not, since good stuff *can* be done with the UNity engine. Not so sure if the whole Keyword concept is salvagable though.
Btw, one of the things that worries me is the fact that Lisa said that they only fell short of the last million or so in funding "which would have brought the game to Open Enrollment".
Personally I do not see how one more million would salvage this game with the way they were developing it when they had 20 people. So this tells me that they are still looking rigidly at some sort of "feature-milestone" where all the core-systems are implemented and the "Game of Thrones" can begin. Exept that those core systems obviously are not enough to get enough traction with the populace.
I guess one lesson to be learned is that Graphics, UI and polish are important for an Indy project too.
I have decided to hang on to my current accounts, so I am not putting these up for sale. I have suspended 7 of them, so I will let these hibernate untill PFO gets revived or dies. I have a feeling that if another publisher picks up PFO, we will see some changes to monetization too so I think the whole "XP from day 1" thing will become less of a thing. Hopefully the DT-perk will still keep being honored in some way.
I am keeping my Main account subbed for nostalgia purposes.
Thanks for all the interest!
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
A minor failure I think the game made was trying to move discussion to unfinished forums. That really turned me off. If I'm going to leave Paizo, I expect to at least be given a Freeforums-tier forum in exchange. And that's real bare-minimum-type stuff. I never did follow the Goblinworks Forums discussions, and didn't really try.
True. They have made a lot of small mistakes like that. I do not even think that was a particular small mistake: for a game that needed to rely heavily on a Community during its development, solid forums and stuff like a friendslist should have been at the top of the list.
I noticed that the link to the second picture of the description of the Adventurer Reward tier leads to the same picture as the first link.
Here is the correct link to view that second part of the perks of the Adventurer Reward tier:
In case you have to show this to customerservice support to make sure they give you that second month. ;)
Thanks guys. I am sad too. I was in it for the long haul, but I lost hope that the game will be materialized in the way I envisioned from all those wonderful blogs.
Although I thought the course they fared was always in the direction they envisioned, development was so slow that it seemed as if that visage at the horizon kept getting further away from us every month, instead of closer.
Then with the recent cut in development, I simply can not see it at all anymore.
3 Rewards sold, 12 more to go.
1 million to bring this game to what exactly? A few extra barebone features in their first buggy iteration, while still no water in the rivers and stock-art bridges still clipping out of the landscape everywhere?
This game needs an entire new development team, a new engine, a new approach to the core mechanics and *at least* 20-40 million.
Yes, I had expected a longer breath from the initial funding myself. Though when they presented the figures some time ago, where it became clear they already had spent over 4 million, I was worried, since it seemed to me that any initial funding could not keep up for long with that kind of spending.
I have said a few times that I thought development was very slow: what Nihimon sais about previous bug returning certainly fits in my idea that this was a very unexperienced team, that also could have done better with a real veteran at the helm. Who are probably very expensive to hire. Then again, 4 million in 3 years is not nothing.
At some point they said they had 20 people working full time on this: I always found that hard to believe: not when you look at the spending, I guess, but definately when you look at what they managed to bring to the table in that time, with 20 people.
I know they had a playable game with network functionality and all in that time-span, but looking at a lot of Indy projects lately, I am starting to think this was not a very efficient effort.
Maybe Ryans projections about the financing of this game were all based on his predictions of how subscriptions and population would develop. That is marketing spin for sure. I always interpreted his words as that they could finish this game without even a single sub: it just would take longer.
To be sure: these Adventurer Rewards do not give backdated xp to the second character you set to training, if you use the reward on an existing account. That second character will start to train from wherever his XP is at. From that point on, there will be two characters gaining 2400xp per day though.
So this is only a good buy if you believe in pfo going forward: it is not a fast way to a backlog of xp. If you are unsure about the future of pfo and consider the chances high that service will end soon, then you may be sorry that you bought these. These rewards and the DT perk are a big boon, but only if you believe in a bright future for pfo. :)
Selling Adventurer Rewards! These will allow you to create a fresh account with the Destinies Twin perk. They also come with some goodies from the Kickstarter.
See the following links for a description of this Reward:
As shown in the pics they come with 2 months of game time, worth 30 dollars alone. Also Shieldmate, Daily Deals and other perks.
Please note that right now, if you redeem the invite, you will find only 1 month of game time in your Rewards. This is a known bug in the system. Both times that I redeemed an invite for myself, Ryan has corrected the issue without a problem and said he would forward the bug to the team. I am pretty sure this is not resolved yet for obvious reasons but just send an email to Goblinworks and they should set it straight. The pics above are "proof", though I am sure they are not needed.
Instructions on how to create your twin can be found here: How to make your Twin I am pretty sure they made it more fool-proof now but best follow those directions.
I have 15 of these for sale, for a price of 75 dollars each. If you still believe in PFO (and think they will stick to the current monetization), this is your chance to get one of those DT accounts!
Payment through paypal only. After payment is received, I will send you the invite. You then get an email from GW with the title "Redeem your invite", with a link that you have to click. Make sure that you are logged into the account that you want to transform into a DT-account, before you click the final Confirm button on the website!! You can also create an entire new account after clicking the link in the email, btw.
PM me here, so I can give you my Paypal email adress. Make sure that I can recognize your payment as being yours (by mentioning your forum name or some).
Disclaimer: PFO has hit a serious snag recently and GW had to lay off most of their staff. Only 3 people are left working on the game. Development will continue and servers will keep running as long as there are enough subscribers left. There is no guarantee that the game will keep running, or that all of the KS perks like the Daily Deals will materialize. Or that they keep the monetization and DT-perk as it is, if a new publisher may take over.
Locke, after seeing the Sale fee of Ebay (10%) I have decided to sell everything separately, on this forum. I remember the fees being lower!
I am going to start with the Adventurer Rewards that allow people to make a fresh DT account with some KS perks. The accounts will come later, so I can stick around a little longer. But they will end up for sale too, I think. I may do them separately then, but only one account will have all the Wealth, I am not going to spread that. Thanks for all the advice so far, guys.
Have to think it over, Cheatle. It will be on ebay anyway, with a reserver price and probably a buyout price. I do it on ebay because I want at least some protection. Not ready to PM about this just yet.
I could still decide to stop all subs and just let the accounts wither untill either the game dies completely, or a pubisher picks it up.
Will be putting this up soon, probably on ebay. Sorry for the sucky format, obviously that did not carry over from the doc document, and formatting it here is not doable because of the ancient forum software. See below for a link to the doc-file, which is MUCH more easily readable.
For a better formatted overview of these accounts, download this doc file:
Still thinking about a price.
You should ask at least 350 for this account.
135 dollars for the 9 months of game time, 100+ dollars for the fact that it is a DT account (still too low if you ask me) and 100+ dollars for the fact that it has unspent xp and it is a day 1 account.
I would not take the first offer, Darklord.
People will hate me for this but the OP might not. :(
Alagos Drenum Darknor wrote:
Alagos, only the first link you gave is working, this one:
I'll link it up for you: Alagos DT account on Ebay
I am not paying for access to the game, I am paying for my monthly box of XP. I know I can not access the game if I do not pay but there's a difference there.
The game is slowly getting better and I hope they can manage to make it so much fun that more people will want to play it. When that happens, they will also be willing to pay for their XP, just like hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay for EvE and for World of Warcraft.
For me the game is fun enough already, so I am happy to start accumulating XP so soon already.
2 things though:
I totally understand that for many the game is not fun enough so they do not want to pay for their XP yet;
I am weighing those factors and so far I am still willing to keep subbing.
I dunno. I think you over-estimate the number of people that are so competitive that they refuse to play a MMO where they can't poopsock their way to max level in 2 weeks, and run with the big boys.
Those people exist for sure, but they are also usually the loudest people in the MMO communities so they seem a bit over-represented. There is a huge batch of people that just enjoy a game for what it is and can pick up any MMO, no matter where its playerbase is at.
Now, an *empty* MMO, that's a real downer.
True. I am having fun though so my money is currently well spent. In the meantime I have huge doubts if this game will ever take off. I even have huge doubts that *if* this game takes off, it might be in a way that is less fun for me and I will simply quit. But right now I am going with the flow, I am having fun doing the building and watching the PvP antics and enjoy the rollercoaster ride of new buggy and unfinished features being implemented every few weeks. The game is an ugly, buggy and unfinished hotchpotch, but there are already elements in that hotchptoch that keep drawing me in. Many of the recent Themepark MMO's did not manage to keep that interest.
To name two simple things:
I LOVE that its one, single world. I can put my marker 80 hexes to the South and start running. (yes, the world is monotonous). All the people in the same world. LOVE it.
I also LOVE the character-building where you can mix and match. Yes, it takes way too much XP and takes too long and ability gates and what not, but I have never had so much fun planning out my character (and making the wrong choice though nothing is truly ever wrong).
Even so I consider the chance that this game is still around in 3 years about 20%.
I do not agree with the whole XP-gap thing, and the perceived unfairness about a batch of players that already are closing in on tier 3.
First, I sense a contradiction with those people: they do not think the game is worth a 15 dollar subscription in its current state so they keep harping on that fact. At the same time, when the game reaches a playable state in their minds, all of a sudden, they think it is unfair that certain players already have XP.
XP for which they will be paying the exact same amount of dollars for, exept later, for a game in a much more finished state. Where's the unfairness in that? Unfair to us, who paid for their XP while the game was unfinished still? ;)
Also, I am convinced that if the game is fun, players will come and not bother with the fact that they start "behind the curve". This game will need to cater to other players then just those hardcore competitive PvP folk anyway if it ever wants to be successful. This is not an Arena-match where you start late, with all sorts of handicaps: it's a rich engaging Fantasyworld with lots of PvE and Building and social stuff.
I hope this hasn't anything to do with Ryans reaction about the group thing and the free month. That's just Ryan being Ryan.
Deianira, I can assure you, that if this game makes it out of the gates (whenever that is, I am thinking 5 years from now) it will be a rich, engaging Fantasyworld with Pathfinder all over it. You may want to have your XP then.
I can't assure you it will ever come out of the gates though. :(
Could we have a sticky at the top, that the community has indeed moved over to the Goblinworks forums now?
Could we have a sticky at the top, that the community has indeed moved over to the Goblinworks forums now?
Not much since Enchantments are not in yet, but you should save it for the future. +4 and +5 refined goods are used to make +4 and +5 items which will be able to hold enchantments in the future.
Those gems are used in tier 1 Jewelery, if you manage to secure a whole batch of +5 refined materials, you can make a +5 item that will be able to hold an Enchantment(you put the enchantment on it at the same time the item is crafted).. Nobody knows how good these enchantments will be, there is not much known yet. But a single +5 refined resource is not much yet.
It usually takes a lot of refining before you get those, so +5 items will be rare, but value also depends on usefullness. Also, I do not see many Tier 1 +4 and +5 items being made, since people outgrow that tier very quickly.
There is one more use for a +4 and +5 resource: you can try to use it to "pull up" a crafting recipe to a higher + level.
Neadenil Edam wrote:
I would love to see more "quickest pathways" to boost a certain Ability. I am currently looking at the 12--->14 Dex gap, while I am only truly interested in longbow and associated skills like Ranged attack bonus, Bow Spec and Archer armorfeat, and not so much in Shortbow, misc rogue and skirmisher skills and/or utilities. Also not interested in a lot of LOngbow attacks either which makes for a lof of unfun choices to spend my xp.
Can someone explain to me again why we have the Ability gates? Aren't the achievement and XP gates enough?