Ravenlute your wrong about it being a simple matter of resupply. Most important to the guy in the field will be what happens when they run out. Now consider when the player looting goes into effect and I kill someone and grab their arrows off the husk to weaken them when they come back from the shrine.
Then there is the economy to consider. Will enough arrows be produced in the early days to make using them relatively easy or will they be somewhat rare and only manufactured by the larger groups for internal use only? TEO has done pretty well gathering and supplying gear for our members but I would expect at least a third of that gear would not have been made if we had needed to supply ammo for ourselves.
I was in a group last monday led by TEO Pino where we were killing the cultists south of Brighthaven, I used some heals on others mid fight without issue a number of times over the course of 2 hours. Now I HAVE taken rep hits before from accidentally hitting a teammate but didn't that time, I also believe nobody lost rep from targeting me though I'm not positive. The most dangerous issue does seem to be the 'lag' between an action being que'ed and it's taking effect. The party system definitely needs work but it is playable if you try to anticipate its qwerks.
On the ammo how about considering the need to divert materials to crafting it. Cant stock up on what is not being produced.
And needing a backup weapon for when you run out of ammo.
I suspect that ammo will be a huge game changer in terms of how WE play. Those who think it will not be a big deal I suspect don't use bows.
I will never understand why some people need to be so negative. Ive played some in the stress test and listened to my settlement talk about progress in early alpha. It has seemed that while the game is barebones at the moment lots of pieces have been added throughout alpha. I would expect that type of progress at a slower rate throughout EE.
'Normal' people are not going to line up for an EE offering. The cost being the same as an AAA game as far as monthly fees go is your best argument Audoucet and its a weak one. EE is going to draw that minority who like the IDEA of the product and they form the core that everything else builds around. That's the whole point of crowdforging. Once they monetize our gameplay in EE the additional revenue would allow for the 'wants' we have to be prioritized alongside the 'needs' of the game to be a success come OE. Now each one of us has our own litmus test for when a company is delivering a worthwhile product and you have said your peace, why not just move along and find another community to annoy?
I still don't understand how some people think they have the right to attack others for seeing potential. Most of us have things we want to see but are willing to put up with a very rough version of the game on the way, which to be honest is exactly what we are 'owed' from GW for supporting the kickstarter, not all the bells and whistles a VERY vocal minority seems to think its owed.
I will agree player husks/encumbrance/organized PvP should be the next elements added but would have no problem starting the clock if told a definite timeline on them if that timeline was only a few weeks.
Some people want to make cooking analogies I prefer thinking of this project as a statue being carved out of raw stone. The start of EE is only the roughest shaping of the final product and our contribution most properly will be in adding details yet too many think they are entitled to dictate every aspect of the game.
As to those who claim that game sites will doom the game because it doesn't meet their expectations all I can say is I rarely use those site as anything but a means to find what new games are coming out, and I doubt im alone in that regard.
I would suspect the entire GW team is currently desperately trying to finish THEIR goals for the EE launch. I would also imagine they are scratching their heads and wondering how the WoT ended up with a player NAP when they must have been expecting a bloodbath that would occupy us while they polished existing systems and added new content.
From chat activity and seeing people active in my travels I would say probably several hundred truly active most of the time in game. Usually a few times as many people logged in but afk. Greatest population density I've seen in a hex is 14/15 people at a time all active when we are banging our heads against escalations. Usually it isn't too hard to form a party in TEOs neck of the woods.
Its not uncommon at all, the problem here is that (1) too many people act like its an all or nothing scenario and (2) keep trying to act like EE should be like a live game launch. I personally have revisited WOW, DDO, EVE, Rift, AoC, and STO often multiple times as they evolved. If GW stays true to the focus on MEANINGFUL INTERACTIONS as their primary focus in releasing content they should be fine, especially as the avowed goal is steady growth not peaks and troughs in subscribers.
I understand your point Gloreindl its not really frustration with your post. I only have had access as part of the stress test and ANYONE with EE access does in fact now have access to alpha. They have now gone live with 10.1 to address stability and as to the first impression question, my question honestly would be where do you draw the line then? My first impression right now if that its a game far from complete but ready for gamers to start making their mark on the game world. I am willing to start now but my point at which I will really be interested in maintaining my game time will be when POI and settlement improvement is integrated into the game. In the meantime I have no problem running down my 'free time' and even paying for a few months but the reality will be lots of features SHOULD be added in those 'free months' so I want people who argue for delay to expend some mental effort into really explaining what is so 'broke' EE cant start at its current ETA.
The problem I have with posts like Gloreindl's is that we are going into EE and I know GW doesn't like to call it this but its basically a pay to play Beta. Now I know not everyone with access to EE got the 'free' time initial backers did but their solution remains as always- wait until the content you WANT is ingame to start playing. All this talk of interfaces and overhauls needing improvement ignores the fact that these systems WILL be overhauled likely a number of times during the course of EE. We have a very basic game in a mostly playable state right now. Day 1 EE DOESNT need major improvements to any of the systems we have seen thus far it needs to see those systems be as reliable as possible. Obviously encumbrance and some of the accessories that currently don't have active effects ingame would be nice to see working, player looting is another important mechanic. But my feeling is if these were not ready if we had a firm plan from the devs on WHEN they would be incorporated into the game and that when being ASAP, top priority, we expect it to be in in X days, we could still launch. Some of us want to get in and start seeding the world with our own accomplishments. The first wave is ready even if the arm chair generals are not, they can come in at their own pace when they want after the labor of the devs to broaden the game and the efforts of the first wave to create our organizations finally meet THEIR definition of 'ready for EE'.
Ah, there is the Kobold!! I really think we need to see what the next patch brings before continuing to sharpen our axes and calling for heads to roll. It would be nice to have a follow up post for GW asking us to test specific population densities or mass migrations in attempts to further define where the hang up is for the server.
I would agree with Cheatle and Caldeathe on a potential solution but it would also require VERY careful balancing in the long term. In the short term removing JUST enough to ensure server stability at present while buffing critters that remained to maintain similar difficulty might work. My biggest concern is that without movement of the critters static formations become even easier to ignore if you let escalations build up. We will also at some point be getting even MORE NPCs when the guards who are supposed to patrol the roads are added to the game. So while we are at it lets ask for mob pathing, actively reinforcing each other when nearby groups come under attack, smart AI ie focus fire on ONE character. That's probably all in the works. In the meantime maybe we should let the devs build the game without clamoring over EVERY little thing we want NOW.
Thanks for that Nihimon, I must have missed that transition, but that means there should be plenty of opportunity to tweak systems. And Audoucet we get it, you spent money without knowing what you were spending on. We were not 'paying in advance' we were using our dollars to support the development of a game we thought we might want to play for which we received perks further on in the development process. Your attempts at being in activist investor would be comical if you were not so busy causing strife with every post.
In the meantime my point which was made several times that AFAIK we are still on the test server and not the live servers has been ignored. And anyone who funded the kickstarter gets 'free' months so your not 'paying' for anything at the start of EE anyway. Fear mongering is all most of these posts accomplish regardless of their stated aims.
Your mixing up your meanings to the point that they do more harm than good. Have we seen issues that are failures of the server, yes. However this being the PURPOSE of the stress test and having seen improvement in the last few days AND having seen a major patch that added major game mechanics it is not correct to say the stress test is failing. It would be failing if they were making no progress on fixing the issues as they arise which is not the case.
Your professed experience doesn't mean much without context. The explanation at the start of this thread noted that physical server units were handling multiple hexes. They probably spread those into fairly even divisions with maybe some exceptions like TK or Brighthaven where they might have anticipated higher player density. So again this is not a failure of the stress test and as I noted this is AFAIK still running on the test server which might be just about maxed out now and which might not make sense to modify at this point. The stress test would however give GW a much more precise reading of the mapping for the live servers. That is a stress test working as intended at this stage of development.
And what would you base that on? From the information given to us it sounds like mobs from the escalations running rampant might be the biggest part of the problem but load balancing in General is something that any MMO deals with CONSTANTLY. Additionally this stress test I believe is still running on Zog not the permanent servers which I would imagine have more processing power? Now for any of the GW team TEO battled an escalation home for 2 hours yesterday with 2 full groups and it went fairly smoothly. There was one occasion where it DID melt down on all of us and on death sometimes we wouldn't be released to a shrine properly or it would load us to a shrine and when we started to move it ported us to another slightly farther shrine.
Before this last update I would have agreed they were not ready for EE. The additions made with release 10.0 make me feel more comfortable with jumping in on the 30th of this month. It seems 10.0 brought some instability what with teleports and other bugs, if those are fixed I would be happy to play that bare bones iteration of the game. Im sure there will be other things to annoy me as they incorporate new features into the game but that's okay during EE as long as there is persistence.
I just joined the stress test and would agree this is a major issue, a few innocent hits don't just tarnish your halo on the good/evil axis, they label you a full blown murderhobo to the system. Rep regain doesn't really seem to be a problem its the rep loss side that is seriously flawed. This should be a priority because this is a game where we are each others content, flawed game systems destroying the ability to engage in cooperative play will not be tolerated come EE. Cut the system out entirely and let us try self policing if that system isn't ready but right now the cure is more damaging than the disease.
I suppose this is where I differ from my carebear brethren, I don't expect to survive my encounters with the PvPers on a regular basis but am not opposed to their gameplay as long as I can try meaningful acts of defiance. Oh well more time for me to focus on the poi I hope to manage, it's not like the star metal was going to directly benefit me.
Well said Malrunwa, I think we could apply that to any if the threads we keep creating. Let's see the devs initial offerings before asking for a rewrite. I'm sure there is more than enough to do now that all our chatter would stop cold if they actually tried to entertain most of our requests, I hear by request the devs don't listen to us until the MVP is released!
I think you inadvertently stumbled across one of the issues I have with this Kobold. In my experience merchants typically do very well for themselves but the resource gatherers are not always those merchants. It is not uncommon to see the resource gathers being among the most impoverished members of a group though games with a true player economy balance it a bit better. It is still a fairly low margin activity that most people who engage in do because they want to be part if a community. It is their efforts the merchants then move around for the big money.
As I've stated before a PvPer really doesn't need to be skilled at much PvE and PvP will use exactly the same basic skills. A harvester on the other hand HAS to focus on another skill set and the more they focus on being "fully capable of fighting to protect" their wares the less capable of fulfilling their role they are.
I've pvped and I've been a resource gatherer and crafter and honestly I prefer the latter because I like to see the organizations I belong too have things. Whether we are talking the medium and small Calderi POSs I operated for my corp in EVE or the half the exterior wall and being a major contributor to several other buildings in AoC. I like seeing people use the stuff I create because that is where I get the most satisfaction in game. And I've fought to protect my creations and i don't mind losing them in a fight but giving the low man in the totem pole the ability to zero his antagonists gains is not imbalanced. In fact if the goal is to increase rarity which was one of the points being argued for FFA this fulfills that objective.
I suppose destroying everything is extreme, as extreme as FFA! But seriously Retributive strikes are part of the lore I believe and you could balance the system, maybe allowing the defeated their choice of what is destroyed rather than at random or perhaps blasting finished items into constituent parts minus a few to represent damage it would have taken?
In further interest in hearing from a dev on the actual mechanics is the influence a company expends on a POI a one time thing or does it gradually as you improve a POI eat into the potential pool of influence you could use on other objectives? Knowing how these costs are balanced would greatly affect how we plan ANY operations.
Very clever Monty Wolf one problem though we are not setting priorities for further development of the game here we are asking a rewrite of the code before we even get to EE with no indication that it's needed. You want to crowd forge a more dangerous environment ask then to work on the monster AI. Or focus on bringing settlements fully into the game sooner not keep rewriting the same thing.
I think it's long past time we heard from a dev on this matter as to whether they are going to rewrite code before it even sees the light of day.
Aet Charlie I have not argued that they are irrelevant I have argued that this thread is not even a thinly veiled attempt to derail the intended purpose of the reputation system. You further insinuate that I am failing to discern between the types of people arguing for FFA and you are again incorrect. Since you want to put words in my mouth let me clear up any misunderstandings. Without the slightest proof that there will be a problem with the game mechanics we have a persistent cry not just in this thread but across the forum for the game mechanics to be pulled back. This is a fact. I have given credence to some of the points raised that allow a deepening of PvP such as feuding hexes. Now actually singling people out to fight because they are the champions of these requests and defaming them would be an ad hominem attack and I will further go so far as to point out they consistently use argumentum ab auctoritate arguments which you do not call them out on.
There are people arguing for FFA for the sole purpose of enabling their murderhobo lifestyle. If you deny this then you are naïve. And that is not an attack though I am sure you would like to portray it as such. Since you support letting the arguments for this stand answer me this: to what purpose is it in a game that hasn't been tested yet to request changes to the game mechanics?
Aet Charlie if we want to talk about argument types and such first stop conflating my points to dismiss the entirety of my post and realize that this entire thread is based on a pathos argument which is a poor basis for a business to conduct itself on and you do accept this as an appeal to GW to change the way they do business without any proof of its necessity do you not?
Urman I would hope everyone could recognize that I responded like that to highlight his attitudes which is why I tried to make the rest of my post non personal. To those arguing I'm making massive leaps lumping people together I respond in part true however as you are arguing a point to change the game without ANY evidence to support a need you let yourselves be lumped in so don't expect sympathy. People want to talk like they are experience at leading people yet the first obstacle to their way of doing things they cry for change. A military truth is to succeed you fight with the force you have not the one you wish.