Starting from level one?
I'd personally go divine caster; oracle or druid.
Balanced is fine, just make sure that doesn't mean the party members don't blend together naturally. Having a ranger and a barbarian in the group already, I'd avoid going too urban. If you are going to be balanced, you need a divine caster, and if nature is the way, that divine caster is going to be a druid. Honestly, the wizard is the one most out of place in the party.
Actually, a Hunter, from the ACG Playtest, may fit very well in there. Divine spellcaster, with combat focused on teamwork with animal companion.
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Starting from level one?
I'd personally go divine caster; oracle or druid.
Yep, starting from level one.
I had been considering the oracle, but I was wondering if it wouldn't be too squishy to complement the barbarian (now the only up front and close melee character). Though I might be biased, having seen a barbarian more knocked out than actually fighting in a former adventure, lol.
Melee Oracles can be quite frightening if that's the route you want to go. Oracle also just oozes flavor, and should feel homey for a Sorcerer player without being identical. I'd go Oracle.
Druid and Cleric are also valid options, of course.
Starting from level one?
I'd personally go divine caster; oracle or druid.
Yep, starting from level one.
I had been considering the oracle, but I was wondering if it wouldn't be too squishy to complement the barbarian (now the only up front and close melee character). Though I might be biased, having seen a barbarian more knocked out than actually fighting in a former adventure, lol.
Not too squishy; you have d8 HD, up to medium armour, and a shield if you want.
Bones mystery lets you up your armour to be less squishy. Battle mystery would let you buff the party. Life lets you channel like a cleric. Waves is good for crowd control with the blizzard and provides useful melee boosts. If you've access to Ultimate Magic, the Metal mystery is worth considering too.
Druids can be very strong ... but play what you'll enjoy playing :-)
I wouldn't be too worried about healing as long as the cure spells are on your spell list. In that case you can use wands of cure light wounds in order to cover the healing part.
A druid or nature oriented oracle sounds like a good fit with the barbarian and ranger, of course you could also aim for something which fits with the wizard, as he/she seems the most out of place in the group so far. An alchemist could be an option which fits well with the wizard.
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Since the campaign is urban, as you said, I think it would actually -better- if you played, well, a more urban character to go along with the wizard. In addition, if your in a city campaign, it would pay to have a charismatic character who can -be the face- as in an urban campaign diplomacy, bluff etc.. are a lot more likely to come up then they would in a traditional dungeon crawl/adventure through the wilds kind of game. To that end, I'd say Oracle or Inquisitor would be your best bet. Oracle provides divine casting, the spontaneous casting your used to and comes with a charisma focus and enough skill points to be the party face, which will actually be important in an urban intrigue type campaign like your implying this is.
Meanwhile the Inquisitor, while not charisma-focused, can be an extremely good face by taking the inquisition that lets you use wisdom for social skills, and while not a -fullcaster- still has divine spellcasting and also is much better at supporting the party at -melee- than the oracle. Even further, you have enough skills to be the -skill monkey- if your ranger invested all things like survival, stealth, climb/swim etc...Out of the two, Oracle has better healing ability, stronger divine spellcasting and the spontainous casting you are used to, so I would likely go with that. Either would be valid, though.
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Bard fits well with this and probably for your playstyle. You loved the sorcerer? Bard is a charisma based caster that can also heal (tho no blasting). Bard boosts everyone's damage and can easily be a competent melee or ranged damager. It certainly fits with your group and as Corodix says you don't have to be a focused healer.
CraiFuzzy: good point, but ironically it is going to be a pretty much urban based adventure (the ranger is going to be an urban ranger, maybe I should have mentioned that)...
Eww... don't like the idea of an 'urban ranger', there's no 'range' for starters. Also, the only idea I get about an 'urban barbarian' is a bar brawler - and frankly, there's a class for that now (the Brawler in the ACG Playtest). Neither of those are as bad as an Urban Druid would be though, so definitely avoid that one.
Honestly, being in a city, I'd go with an actual full on Cleric of the majority god in the city. The divine spellcasting would be best, still not overly squishy, and the city connections through the church can be invaluable. (There's also the Playtest WarPriest)
Oracle is indeed a good choice to fit with the existing party. Built right they can be very good at frontlining, and a number of mysteries offer revelations that give you scaling summonable weapons, weapon & armor proficiencies, temporary bonuses etc.
As long as you pick up the standard lesser restoration & other utility cleric spells you can cover divine casting just fine while smashing faces.
Go Oracle.
(Human) Cleric or (Human or Half-Orc) Inquisitor.
You'll probably need a good party face. As a Cleric, I'd simply hav a decent Cha and invest in the appropriate skills. As an Inquisitor, I'd take the Conversion Inquisition.
Oracle can work too, but their saves make me cringe.
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Primary Healer is whoever is carrying a wand of CLW and another of Lesser Restoration. Heh. :P
I honestly don't understand why Paizo decided to make Oracles the only divine caster with poor Fort. Espeically considering they're focused on Cha, rather than Wis.
Well, they are full-caster, so with the right spells, they can cover their bases, but still... It's a lot of extra work. :(
I really strongly reccommend Druid, It's the perfect compliment to that party.
Nature/tracking/animals? you and ranger!
Fighting things toe to toe as a bear? Barbarian has your back and you his
Spellcasting? Whoah look at the wizard and the druid go!
Basically a druid is one of the best jack-of-all-trades.
And you can also be a good summoner to boot, which IS a big deal
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Primary Healer is whoever is carrying a wand of CLW and another of Lesser Restoration. Heh. :P
Condition removal. It's a thing, and an important one, and one Inquisitor (much as I love that class) isn't really equipped to be the guy on.
I honestly don't understand why Paizo decided to make Oracles the only divine caster with poor Fort. Espeically considering they're focused on Cha, rather than Wis.
Oracle has the advantage of being able to focus on a particular role a lot better than Cleric. Pathfinder rewards specialization. I'd say the low Save is a small price to pay. Their higher skills also let them be a bit more versatile out-of-combat, which is very nice.
Well, they are full-caster, so with the right spells, they can cover their bases, but still... It's a lot of extra work. :(
Not a lot. Good saves are nice, certainly, but Will's by far the most important IME, and the Oracle's got that.
Oracle is the divine sorcerer, plain and simple. It's a really fun class that can be pulled in a million different directions. The lore mystery can be really interesting for Cha to AC to cut down on some MAD
Condition removal. It's a thing, and an important one, and one Inquisitor (much as I love that class) isn't really equipped to be the guy on.
Keep in mind that the "Heh. :P" was supposed to mean that statement is not to be taken to seriously. (I really enjoy Oracles of Battle with spells focused on support/healing/condition removal).
Oracle has the advantage of being able to focus on a particular role a lot better than Cleric. Pathfinder rewards specialization. I'd say the low Save is a small price to pay. Their higher skills also let them be a bit more versatile out-of-combat, which is very nice. All that's worth some saves, IMO.
They're still considerably less powerful than Clerics (unless you're abusing stuff like Paragon Surge) and the saving throw gap is really big by mid levels. OTOH, Oracles are a far more interesting class. Mostly because Clerics are really boring, since they get pretty much zero class features and don't get anything new at even-numbered levels.
Not a lot. Good saves are nice, certainly, but Will's by far the most important IME, and the Oracle's got that.
Unfortunately, just having a good base save doesn't do much after mid-levels, and Oracles don't eally have any incentive to boost Wis. Oracles are more dependent on keeping save-boosting buffs up)
Anyway, let's not derail the thread on Oracle x Cleric debate. You know our discussion tend to last too long and generate way-too-long posts.
If you do build an oracle, unless the ranger has trapfinding, you may want to be a seeker.
Even if Urban Rangers didn't get it, Trapfinding is pretty much pointless, IMO.
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@Atarlost:
All true to some degree...but the Human Favored Class bonus (also available to Half Elves, Half Orcs, and Aasimar) makes that issue stop being an issue real quick.
You also don't have to pick all the utility spells the first time you can. Grabbing, say, two of the 3rd level spells at 8th and 9th is perfectly acceptable.
What are scrolls?
For the last couple of years I have happily been playing a sorcerer in different adventures. We're starting a new adventure soon and it's more or less made clear to me that it's time to give someone else the chance for a change. :-P
I've agreed to let my character choice depend on what the other group members want to play (since the last two times I was the first to shout 'sorcerer'), but right now I'm a bit at a loss for the best way to complement the group. So far we're having a ranged ranger, a hack and slash minded barbarian and a sorcerer (or possibly a wizard).
Though in theory every one should just play whatever he likes best, I do find that a balanced group adds a lot of pleasure to the game. So I guess in this case that means tanking and/or healing would be my job. Logical choices seem a paladin (sturdier) or a cleric (more efficient healing?). These roles are completely new to me, so any advice on which one to pick or suggestions for a better option are welcome...
First, the ranger can use wands of cure light wounds and wands of lesser restoration, acting as a healer.
Alchemist can cover the healing and tanking role fairly well, especially a beastmorph vivisectionist with the Infusion discovery ("Dedicated healer? Use your own damn actions if you get hurt and can't wait until after the fight."); with an archery-focused ranger and the sorcerer/wizard (as long as the player takes a few damaging spells), the loss of bombs isn't that big of a deal. The alchemist also has all of the status removal "spells" as formulae. An alchemist can also fill in decently on the locks/traps/skills side.
Bard, as mentioned, can heal, tank (especially arcane duelist), and is one of the best buffers (making everyone better). They do quite well as the "face" and have enough ranks to handle locks/traps and other skills. They're not as good at status removal as an alchemist or a divine caster, but they can invest in Use Magic Device and get by with spell-trigger items.
Cleric, druid, and oracle are all strong choices as +3/4 BAB classes with armor use and 9th-level spells.
Inquisitor can work extremely well as a tank, but isn't as good at buffing as a bard.
An interesting choice might be a monk with both the qinggong monk and monk of the healing hand archetypes. It's more limited than a true spellcaster, but can perform some of the same functions.
Paladin can definitely heal and tank, but is limited in skills. Also, they can be difficult to integrate into a group; especially if the player and the GM (or the rest of the group!) have different ideas on morality and what a paladin "should" do.
Another interesting choice for a healer, although tanking is almost definitely out, is a witch with a Healing patron (the hedge witch archetype is optional). A witch can do well in the buffing role, as well, and is one of the best choices for a debuffer and single opponent "save-or-suck" character. As an Int-based caster, they also do well with skills.
Play a rogue. Plenty of skills and mmm ok in a fight. Great compliment to help the barbarian and if you miss spells too much just max em out in use magic device and pocket as many wands as ya can.
Don't play a Rogue. Please please don't.
1. It's bad
2. Your party doesn't need a Rogue, they need a Divine caster.
3. This is Skulls and shackles. There were only 2-4 traps in total.
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What are scrolls?
More of a valid option in an Urban game than otherwise, but still less useful than having someone with the spell.
Don't play a Rogue. Please please don't.
1. It's bad
2. Your party doesn't need a Rogue, they need a Divine caster.
Yes, dear lord yes. An Urban Ranger (which another player is playing) does everything a Rogue does, only better. Except social skills...which are better covered by an Oracle than a Rogue.
3. This is Skulls and shackles. There were only 2-4 traps in total.
Uh...what? Skull and Shackles hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Where are you getting this?
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@RubySorceress,
I would suggest the Cleric. Mainly due to how versatile the cleric is when it comes to spells.
Since you are in an urban campaign, you may face any number of different kinds of scenarios.
Without an ideal of what you may be facing, you would want the flexibility of a cleric when it comes to spells.
Say you need to question a NPC, you can cast a zone of truth to get make sure he or she is not lying. Or if you party members too damage to their ability scores, you can prepare a restoration spell. If the party needs more tanks in combat, you can prepare summoning spells.\
Whatever the situation is you can adapt to the needs of the party.
This versatility is something a cleric has over the oracle.
An Oracle is a very flavorful class and great to play if you already have a well rounded party. You can specialize in a number of areas and still bring hp healing to the table. BUT! Because of your spells known, you will find yourself either overly specialized in a certain field or spending your spells known trying to keep up with what the party needs.
Finally, when it comes to powers like domain powers and revelations, both classes have many great things to bring to the table. So both classes are quite balanced in this area. The Oracle edge out the cleric with the wider number of powers oracles get to use, while some of the domains for the cleric are just so very powerful. See liberation domain.
Having played both classes, I just find the cleric a much better when it comes to supporting the party. While the oracle plays more like a specialist, great at what it can do, but unable to adapt as well as the cleric to the needs of the party.
What are scrolls?More of a valid option in an Urban game than otherwise, but still less useful than having someone with the spell.
Don't play a Rogue. Please please don't.
1. It's bad
2. Your party doesn't need a Rogue, they need a Divine caster.Yes, dear lord yes. An Urban Ranger (which another player is playing) does everything a Rogue does, only better. Except social skills...which are better covered by an Oracle than a Rogue.
3. This is Skulls and shackles. There were only 2-4 traps in total.Uh...what? Skull and Shackles hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Where are you getting this?
I got this mixed up with another thread.. about Skulls and Shackles...
Have you ever actually looked at the oracle spells known and then looked at the cleric list?
There are no emergency level 1 spells.
There are two emergency level 2 spells (remove paralysis and lesser restoration.) You do not get to choose a level 2 spell until level 7.
There are three at level 3 (remove blindness/deafness, remove curse, remove disease.) You do not get to choose a level 3 spell until level 11. It's the last one you ever get.
There are two emergency spells and two really important non-wizard proactive defense spells (neutralize poison and restoration in the former category and death ward and freedom and movement in the latter.) That would be all your 4th level spells known ever. Hope you like your mystery spell.
At 5th level you will be expected to pick up Raise Dead and Breath of Life. You don't get to choose a 5th level spell until level 13.
For 5th level spells you'll only be expected to have Heal and can choose something else at 13.So if you pick up the spells that are the reason to have a divine caster rather than a bard or magus you basically just have your mystery spells.
The cleric list is just absolutely terrible for people who don't automatically know all their spells and you should never play an oracle unless there's already a cleric in the party unless you're planning to cheese paragon surge. Either play a proper cleric or don't but don't mislead your party by playing something that falsely claims to do the job.
What do you mean by not being able to choose a level 2 spell until 7th? You get one at 4th in addition to cmw and whatever your mystery gives you. If you pick Life that's Lesser restoration for free. Scrolls are a thing - easy to pick up a scroll of remove paralysis instead of taking it as known. Clerics generally don't bother memorizing those situational spells on a daily basis anyway.
They have an Urban Ranger AKA a better rogue.
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What do you mean by not being able to choose a level 2 spell until 7th? You get one at 4th in addition to cmw and whatever your mystery gives you. If you pick Life that's Lesser restoration for free. Scrolls are a thing - easy to pick up a scroll of remove paralysis instead of taking it as known. Clerics generally don't bother memorizing those situational spells on a daily basis anyway.
I think he means that he feels that you HAVE to take Lesser Restoration and Remove Paralysis first before you get to pick a spell that you might actually want.
I disagree; I think this type of spell is exactly what scrolls and wands are for. As an Oracle you should save your spell slots for spells you want to cast frequently.
Peet
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What do you mean by not being able to choose a level 2 spell until 7th? You get one at 4th in addition to cmw and whatever your mystery gives you. If you pick Life that's Lesser restoration for free. Scrolls are a thing - easy to pick up a scroll of remove paralysis instead of taking it as known. Clerics generally don't bother memorizing those situational spells on a daily basis anyway.I think he means that he feels that you HAVE to take Lesser Restoration and Remove Paralysis first before you get to pick a spell that you might actually want.
I disagree; I think this type of spell is exactly what scrolls and wands are for. As an Oracle you should save your spell slots for spells you want to cast frequently.
Peet
I'd argue Lesser Restoration is a pretty good choice for 'used frequently' and grabbing Remove Paralysis with the Human Favored Class Bonus is worth it...but yeah, needing to grab them all first no matter what is kind of a strawman argument in terms of 'you can't possibly get them'.
If your group can handle the morality, play a paladin.
They are provably the strongest frontliner/tank who can heal/buff, and have some of the best saves in the game.
They do lack in skills, but looking at the party, a high diplomancy for social encounters looks to me like all you NEED...
The challenge with a paladin is moral. Make sure you talk with the gm AND the rest of the party about how to adventure with a paladin. Also bring a draft of your code of conduct so your gm can approve or disapprove before playstart.
My inclination of paladin is to always simply play a cleric instead.... one less attack for 9th level casting.
I will add another voice to the oracle column. I also want to say that playing something without the human favored class bonus of spells known is a very bad idea. You probably won't take it at every level, but there are some levels with a ton of utility you want. I played a Half-Orc Battle Oracle up to level 9 and my only complaint was spending 75% of our time at odd levels. He had a higher strength than charisma, focused on intimidate, and stopped casting spells on enemies around level 7. Surprising Charge is a very undervalued ability on these boards, but it can be used to emulate pounce from level 1.
Oracle!
I think a metal mystery oracle might be a good choice They do get some nice social skills (which your party looks to lack), and access to some helpful combat-enhancing revelations. Here is a sample build that mixes combat and social
Zentha Saytilla
Female Human (Varisian) oracle 1
Chaotic Good Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1, Senses Perception +4
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DEFENSE
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AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 14 ((1d8)+6)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee dagger +2 (1d4+2/19-20)
Melee light mace +2 (1d6+2)
Melee longsword +2 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged dagger +2 (1d4/19-20)
Ranged javeling +1 (1d6+2)
Oracle Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st(4/day)-bless, shield of faith, cure light wounds(DC 14)
0th(at will)-detect magic, guidance, light, stabilize
Mystery Metal
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STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Armor Proficiency (Heavy, Light, Medium, Shield), Iron Will, Weapon Proficiency (Martial, Simple), Toughness
Skills Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Perception +4, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +4
Traits Resilient, Seeker
Languages Common, Halfling, Terran, Varisian
SQ oracle curse (tongues: terran), skill at arms
Combat Gear javelins (2), scroll (magic weapon), scroll (protection from evil), scroll (remove fear)
Other Gear longsword, scale mail, outfit (traveler's), shield, heavy steel, scroll case, pouch (belt), dagger, light mace, backpack, bedroll, waterskin, flint and steel, pot (iron), mess kit, rope (hemp/50 ft.), soap (per lb.), candle (10), torch (10), rations (trail/per day) (5), 3.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Metal Mysteries You draw upon the divine mystery of Metal to grant your spells and powers.
Orisons You can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spells, but they are not expended when used and may be used again.
Resilient Growing up in a violent neighborhood or in the unforgiving wilds often forced you to subsist on food and water from doubtful sources. You gain a +1 trait bonus to fortitude saves.
Seeker You are always on the lookout for reward and danger. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Perception checks, and Perception is always a class skill for you.
Skill at Arms (Ex) You gain proficiency in all martial weapons and heavy armor.
Skilled Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
Tongues (Terran) Tongues: In times of stress or unease, you speak in tongues. Pick one of the following languages: Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran. Whenever you are in combat, you can only speak and understand the selected language. This does not interfere with spellcasting, but it does apply to spells that are language dependent. You gain the selected language as a bonus language. At 5th level, pick an additional language to speak in combat and add it to your list of known languages. At 10th level, you can understand any spoken language, as if under the effects of tongues, even during combat. At 15th level, you can speak and understand any language, but your speech is still restricted during combat.