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i know im late to the party but i wanted to give this input....

The unknown secret to an evangelist is not his one domain but what is his alternate channel. I could go on for a long time and spell out how a number of stun locks and debuffs are game breaking but you asked for a support in helping ur group; towards that end Shelyn with luck channel and luck domain is AMAZING. She also is a goddess of protection and has a strong reach weapon prof so she is top tier in every aspect. But i would get ur group to go with the +1 to luck bonuses trait (forget the name) to make em even better.

The protection domain is a good one but loses its luster as the game goes on. The longer the game goes the better other domains get and protection becomes a bit more flat or meh.

the good folks who offered their advice here is largely on point so i only have one thing to add... talk to ur group. Decide which of these options mentioned in this thread you like the most but before you make the final decision go talk to ur table and get a feel for how they will play. If the group has characters that like to help the group then a preacher matches that theme well. If there is a lot of ranged characters then keep the teamwork feats.

Inquisitors have extreme flexibility and potential but that means that to get the most of them they need to have a little bit of synergy with their table. You dont have to change your basic idea, just think about ways to make the experience a bit better for ur table as well as urself.

I agree with Nathan.

I've ran a lot of clerics based on this and level 8 is a sweet spot for any cleric. My question is how do you feel about debuff clerics with madness domain and/or social skills? If you want social skills take being a cardinal archetype and then just find what domain suits you best. If you are ok with debuffing then I'd recommend an ecclisitheurge of Azathoth with void and madness. At that point you are practically an arcane caster as well with dreamed secrets.

A trick that is often overlooked is use destruction domain and natures ally to summon cyclops or as many as possible. Once you get to level 8 use the power of auto confirming crits, crits that a cyclops is guaranteed to get at least one of because of their abilities. The combo gives hundreds of damage In a turn and gives more bodies as well.

Stack superior summons and the usual feat enhancements and you have something nearly unbeatable in terms of summons and even beats out most blasting builds.

You have a thousand options for this and most are really good. The main thing to get is demon subdomain if you are willing to be evil or at least CN because it scales up accuracy and damage better than almost anything a cleric has. If you like massive damage bless equipment chain to give urself and others bane is pretty good, especially for humans since it's a lot of feats. Evangelist usin performances gives good damage and accuracy to urself and friends alike. I'd start with one of these as a base-line

Of course instead of TWF in the traditional sense we could go with a crusaders flurry build where a monks flurry takes care of all the TWF for us. It's not quite top tier but it is simplicity itself and is in fact better than any fighter build just because it actually gets more feats for all but the very late levels.

It depends on of you want to see the total package or just the combat. If you want spells, skills, and damage te inquisitor or ranger gets my vote. If spells don't matter then slayer is best most of the time. I'd also put a paladin into that consideration because he can outlast most anything without sacraficing any fighting with situational smite bonuses.

If I'm seeking consistency I would go inquisitor. Demon subdomain, bane, and judgements, and anything else you care to add to that is a lot of bonuses that all scale. There is even an archetype that gets some of the slayer talents if you think those are big deals. You do lose out getting out on full BAB that's true but it's not so bad a sacrafice with what you get in exchange.

Archeologist is the clear better option because he covers more of your "holes" while not makin any sacrafices to self or group. If we are talking about the bigger picture beyond bard though I would say that the cleric is the unknown. Depending on what he does or does not do is the pivotal point of what issues your group will face.

But in a vacuum I see a wall of meat that uses mostly melee, a cleric that is unknown to me, and one ranged. That means no arcane caster at all, no fly so maneuvering sucks except by throwing money at it, and so on. I think you need a summoner or an item creation specialist. Either you can just use summoned monsters to take of your issues or hand out the equipment that your group is going to need, especially scrolls. Of the two I think summoner works best but it's up to you sir. Good luck!!

Since everyone here hit the obvious and good options I'll hit the weird.... Enlightened paladin. The personal trial feature is perfect for dueling and if you think about it you are can't lose. The swift healing, mercies, ability to fight with fist, and saves plus ki poll.... I mean unless you are fightin something you have no business fighting you can't lose any duel that I can think of. Now maybe if someone fights to a disarming you would lose but then just choose to fight with fists instead; because the person who is challenged gets to pick the terms of the duel.

Unless you fight a monk of some kind you always have superiority and even then you would have superior equipment to choose from.

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It's pretty good for roleplay and using ones imagination but it is far from abusive or negative in any way I've ever seen. In fact I would ask if the player asking for this is new-ish because a time oracle is semi-difficult to do well enough mechanically that the Ayer feels ...satisfied I guess is the word, with what they desired to do. This is not often an issue but I have seen spontaneous casters cause frustrations like this.

What race? If you are willing to either be human and burn a feat or half elf I would advocate being an enlightened paladin. Wait keep reading !!! If you seek to be lightly or even not armored at all there is nothing better because....

1) your Background fits te alignment well
2) your charisma eventually becomes your AC like the kensai that you mentioned
3) best saves in game AND get the ki pool of a monk on top of that.
4) the personal trial isn't situational bonuses like smite evil is
5) you have your fist as backup weapon, which comes up more than people think.
6) spells and mercies for light healing.
7) full BAB

I have to agree that there are plenty of ways to make inquisitor work for this. But if you stuck on a cleric I would look at te cardinal archetype as it has a good chink of skills and so utility while keeping the clerics spell list. If you seek the bane feature a cleric can do this with bless equipment feat chain.

It's possible to put a temporary halt on your campaign and let the group roleplay it out. If not then I would just go with what fits your storytelling.

Honestly I'd just take an ecclisitheurge cleric with fire domain and whatever else you feel like. Monk, inquisitor, or even something charisma based.

Well all we really need is half elf to get you the weapon. Accordingly, paladins, eldritch scion magus, oracles (especially battle), inquisitors with conversion inquisition, some clerics, yhe lost goes on what we can do here.

Is the claw mandatory? If not then I would build it on an enlightened one paladin. His charisma feeds his defense, initiative (with noble scion feat), his saves, and his ki pool. On top of that he has full BAB.

What wod you say to an aid another build for +10 to AC and then work into bodyguard?

As a life oracle you are already propping the group up, you don't need someone to prop you up. Unless the GM is throwing really powerful foes at you personally all the time to the point of singling you out, you don't need a bodyguard. With a d8 of health, healing, and medium armor you should be fine.

Anything that can be combined with dazing.

bodyguard and the rest of that chain is meh unless you can heal in the midst of battle with light cost, im looking at you paladin. for most animals offense tends to be better. All that said there are some crazy aid another builds that can make bodyguard useful for anyone.

Lady-J wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Don't dip. Of you need extra feats we on the forums can find you room for those feats but a fighter dip is not worth it at all to a paladin unless you are a tower shield user.
3 levels into weapon master can be useful for gloves of dueling
Yeah but then you are sacraficing spells, at least one mercy, a smite evil usage that is on par with the gloves, will and reflex saves are slowed a gait bit, and an aura or replaced power thereof is lost. 3 levels of fighter is literally the difference between level X spells and X-1, even for a paladin that alone is significant.
i always go tempered champion on paladins anyway gets rid of spells most of the spells on a paladins list you can get an items that does the job better, plus the weapon training 3 is always on compared to the smites bonus which is only on sometimes and mercies are pretty useless

if tempered champion is allowed at the table i might go with that logic but it isnt always. if you prefer offense over defense you make a decent counterpoint; but i personally find it hard to trade all those defensive bonuses for the "relatively" small gains of the glove over smite's built in damage.

Lady-J wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Don't dip. Of you need extra feats we on the forums can find you room for those feats but a fighter dip is not worth it at all to a paladin unless you are a tower shield user.
3 levels into weapon master can be useful for gloves of dueling

Yeah but then you are sacraficing spells, at least one mercy, a smite evil usage that is on par with the gloves, will and reflex saves are slowed a gait bit, and an aura or replaced power thereof is lost. 3 levels of fighter is literally the difference between level X spells and X-1, even for a paladin that alone is significant.

Don't dip. Of you need extra feats we on the forums can find you room for those feats but a fighter dip is not worth it at all to a paladin unless you are a tower shield user.

You want a cleric 1 and monk X build here based on crusaders flurry or just go back to a cleric honestly. Human Crusader archetype combined with shizuru gives a great domain and 3 feats at level 1.

The debate I have when I make an archer is "what else do I want to do". Archery eats up a LOT of feats so perhaps more than any other time the class features become hugely important. Dee ding on my answer to my own question I vastly narrow down what class I'm seeking.

One type I like that has not been mentioned already is theurban barbarian archetype for barbarian. Be a half orc with sacred tattoo and fates favored along with superstitious rage power and you can laugh at spells all day long. The full BAB and attribute bonuses are just the icing.

Support characters are legit and evangelist clerics are at the top of the mountain (even over bard). It is true that there are better specialist supporters like debuffers, summoners, bards more diverse performances, better buffers, etc.... BUT evangelist clerics have such a wide range of effective support and full spell list that no one can match that diversity.

With a daze based build from cleric or sorcerer, either could daze lock the dragon and win easy but I'm guessing they don't have that. The problem is the AoE and the groups minimal health compared to the dragon. If you are nice and don't go after the squishy members they can do it with preperation and good spea choices, but this is a gamble in my opinion. Probably not a TPK but someone not dying is FAR from certain.

Is your fist the only way you wish to win or are you open to combinations of magic, powers, and fist?

Darn you are correct. You can however use reactive healing feat to do it as an immediate. Not as good but still viable.

You want to check out hangover cleric builds for maximizing the effect and then you will want to check out envoy of balance to get both at once. If you go with quick channel it is possible to channel with envoy twice in a single turn for absurd healing and good damage. Jus make sure your charisma is absurdly high.

Honestly what you probably need is an anti-paladin if you are wanting the self heals instead of an undead hoard. The swift action healing (for dhamphir) is absurdly powerful and in between heals you can debuff the hell out of a single foe.

I can't help with holy guide as I've never seen their value or liked the RP. But with path of vengeance and having favored terrain from holy guide, I would change the racial bonus to charisma not strength. 1) you haven't got mercies for a lot of levels for yourself so an extra +1 to save is nice but 2) more importantly you need more lay of hands for smite bait early on and extra healing. Against evil creatures the trade in damage is even unless you use two handed and then it's a single point difference ; but you get all those saves and AC. Your favored terrain will make up the difference in to hit and damage as well.

Edit: as I recall, bard spells are open to you with your chosen feat(s). If that is true I would recommend mirror images. Just one of these would allow you absorb damage via a spell as opposed to using lay of hands. As a result this could get you a smite evil at a critical moment or in reserve by saving you a use from getting hit direct. Especially if you know your foe is good at critical hit threat range.

Depending on archetype, the dodge feat is usually a free choice. Fighting defensively is not horrible for some monks as getting some style feats to make that better works well for master of many styles and such.

You are right it would have to be at 11 or 12 for improved crit

Hi all. Don't play many Druids but am playing around with the idea a bit and need to know how bad this idea is since it certainly isn't widely used. I want to make a half orc Druid that uses destruction domain to the max and to that end I'll be taking summoning feats to get many (tough) cyclops with their one time auto crit. But that will take a long time to get going so I plan on using a scimitar and dervish dance to crit fish and boost the saves. A rough idea on feats looks something like

1) weapon finess, 3) dervish dance, 4) rogue talent for weapon focus, 5) conjuration focus 6) ranger style for combat expertise (slayer talent), 7) augment summons, 8) improved critical (talent), 9) superior summons, 11) divine interference.

For traits will take reactionary and fates favored with skilled and sacred tattoo for alternate racial traits.

Any tips, modifications, or challenges I need to be made aware of?

Fair enough. Final tip.... By rules as written a judgement continues until an encounter tee is over. Most GMs take that as to mean when everything is dead so if you can just keep one guy alive but disabled you can complete heal yourself with the healing judgement over a long time.

Why not both?

Edit: ok I decided for more. I know you said you don't have room for both but that's hard to believe as a melee inquisitor requires practically no feats. Essentially power attack or an equivilant is it. I would also say that if a 14 Con and FCB to HP isn't enough to keep you up when you are not a tank then there are larger issues at play here.

To answer your question , if you are not healing yourself but dependent on someone else for the healing then you take toughness because you can't trust the other guy to act I. Your best interest.

A magus with the right metamagic feat to change any grasp spell Into another elem t would be a decent alternative to the monk.

If dual wielding was of interest you being a half elf is interesting. Grab two wakizashi with your exotic weapon option and you can go to town with crit fishing and destruction domain.

I think the takeaway is that with these stats and a cleric you can be whatever you want, just got to figure out what that is.

Don't forget anything that involves seduction is also a valid angle for Calistra so are there any modules for prostitutes or some such?

_Ozy_ wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
I agree that going dex is not optimal at all. Spells are your biggest strength with Sarenrea so I would suggest building around that. The point made about a reach clerics advantages are valid. Blasting has much more power to give you than dervish does.
With a reach cleric, summoning also becomes a good option.

Very true. And the beautiful thing about summoning is that it doesn't require any feats to make it good, just better.

I agree that going dex is not optimal at all. Spells are your biggest strength with Sarenrea so I would suggest building around that. The point made about a reach clerics advantages are valid. Blasting has much more power to give you than dervish does.

The problem you face is that your stats are going to dictate your choices or you just waste the opportunity you have. You are good alignment so you can't take a hangover cleric, summoning doesn't need much wisdom beyond just being able to cast your highest spell, healing isn't strong enough for a cleric, and support clerics don't need massive attributes either. So your stats are strongly encouraging you to either take high wisdom for blasting or bad touch (attributes give high DCs) or put your best stats into your martial skills.

I would take debuff or blaster as they can splash support very well. Go debuff if you need the melee. Honestly my own build would be a cleric of Sarenrea (spelling) as she has both fire and glory/heroism with scimitar as a favored weapon. She effectively lets you switch hit between dex to hit, support role, and blaster all in a single package. You will be feat starved as a half elf but it can be done. Be sure to take ecclisitheurge archetype.

For roleplay and debuff go take Tsukiyo and a theologian cleric of using madness domain to the max. Use your traits for wayang spell hunter and other matamagic reducers for bestow curse and laugh at the boss at each level as he curls into a ball. When you get to the point where you can swift cast bestow curse and touch with vision of madness you can't be stopped as long as you go first.

Play it like a Vulcan based on logic. Pursue what seems logical to the characters interpretation to all things. If he has to eat and has no money, he steals so as to not die. Steal once then get better so you can do it twice. Get good at something keep doing it, etc. Let the circumstances of his history shape his logic and then follow that logic as your character would.

You will probably want to be a dual cursed bones oracle or a "hangover cleric" of some kind because of charisma bonuses. Clerics are slightly advantaged in necromancy compared to everyone because they get the spells needed or their enhancements earlier than everyone else but that will make you hard up on any martial prowess because of the high demand on charisma, wisdom, and constitution.

If you seek a deity for your cleric I'd examine Zon-Kuthon as he has a great package of favored weapon, variant channeling, and death domain.

I agree, do not dip. Summons, healing, and spells are all tied to your level. You could afford to lose one of those for a good dip but no dip is going to make up for all three.

Looking to play a Druid soon and want to crit fish, question is can I? As I understand it a natural weapon counts but bite, claw, and so on are all different weapons and would have to take a feat for each one, am I correct?

You could take a seperatist cleric who worships Zon and Shelyn. You embrace the darkness of Zon but as a follower of Shelyn you know and honor what Zon once was.

Well the party has no clear mouth, no clear buffs beyond spells, has a TON of skills, and weak healing. Ranged component is meh and you have legit concerns about your brawler. Honestly I wouldn't suggest either bard or brawler for this group and campaign unless it just makes you happy, then go with it.

I would advise you to look towards a lower skills, divine caster ,based on charisma like an oracle or evangelist cleric. Solves healing without equipment needs, you can be mouth, get access to more spells, and can be good in any style of battle, plus buffs. Are you interested in that at all or do you want the brawler or bard? Totally would go with a bard over brawler if it were me, but maybe not vanilla bard.

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