Goblin Squad Member
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I think that making those the rules from the start would have been better, but it is too late to make a change that major.I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.
Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.
I wonder if it would make sense to have it auto-extend for 5 minutes or so after every change, kind of like some sites do to discourage auction sniping.
... other auction sites... automatically extend the bid deadline by a few minutes if a bid is placed in the last moments of the auction, to give other buyers time to react. Another way to prevent sniping is to end the auction at a random time (e.g., at any instant within a one-hour interval).
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Goblin Squad Member
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@all: can we make an effort to not antagonize others here, rather than just maintaining barely plausible deniability?
Towards this end, I would like Callambea members and leaders to leave this topic alone. I have no interest in rehashing this argument no matter who is who or what is what.
For those that were curious, Callambea also has no intention of moving.
I would hope that the fundamental principle behind offering the winners of the first Land Rush the opportunity to relinquish their guaranteed spot would be to ensure that their status as winners does not turn into a disadvantage relative to those who didn't win.Clearly if someone has established themselves in a position and you move them from that position, that is a disadvantage.
All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.
And this happens minutes after Mystical Awakening joins your rivals in Xeilias? Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.
Welcome to the forums, He Who Must Not Be Named! I mean, The Magpie! I mean, Sam!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look, another Andius thread. Joy. Can we not?
I'm not an official spokesperson for Sunholm per se, but given that I'm the only one participating here I am comfortable enough saying that we have no intent to move at this stage.
I am hoping that week ten will be uneventful, personally - we aren't so high up the board that we couldn't be bumped from out (quite nice, I think) spot by sheer dumb luck if a big raft of moves happened at the top. But I suspect this may be too much to hope.
Chaos reigns.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@all: can we make an effort to not antagonize others here, rather than just maintaining barely plausible deniability?Towards this end, I would like Callambea members and leaders to leave this topic alone. I have no interest in rehashing this argument no matter who is who or what is what.
For those that were curious, Callambea also has no intention of moving.
There's plenty of valid discussion to be had. No need to swear off the topic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that making those the rules from the start would have been better, but it is too late to make a change that major.I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.
Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.
It's not that major, it just tells people to get their entire groups on now if they want the best positioning they can get. For the honest participant, it changes nothing.
People should be recruiting just as hard now, as they would be the last week.
The only upset would be for people trying to make an upset.
Why, Valkenr, I'm sure I'm not kabable of working out who you might be implying here.
Whoops.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Part of having a valid discussion is understanding what motivated the discussion in the first place. Then to present the desirable end goal of each of the parties concerned. Once that is done, then and only then can there be a discussion on how to get to a compromised end goal.
What we have here is a hypothetical question that no one (that it actually applies to) seems to be involved with; no motivating factor to explain why the question was even brought up; and it is impossible to reach any end goal because a meaningful discussion can not begin without the first two parts.
Yeah, this seems like a shaggy dog argument better-suited for a paladin thread.
Yikes! Kabal's made it to 40 votes now. Fasten your seatbelts, ladies and gents!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.
Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.
There is nothing wrong with someone making a surprise finish, or a surprise entry and finish for that matter.
It is easy for someone who's own settlement is not subject to getting bumped to ask that others present their honest picks, don't you think?
Finally, no one actually competing for their locations have a "full membership" list. Again, not being one of the three that don't have to compete, we are still recruiting and making contacts with smaller guilds as vigorously as we did in week one. We will recruit for our settlement right up to the last minute of the land rush.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why, Valkenr, I'm sure I'm not kabable of working out who you might be implying here.
Whoops.
I'm not implying anyone, I'd be more worried about the quiet ones, not the jokesters. I'm hardly following the forum politics and my limited experience with Kabal was learning how BuniBuni managed to find the one BestBuy salesman that though "gaming computer" was synonymous with "minitower with intel HD graphics."
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.
Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.
There is nothing wrong with someone making a surprise finish, or a surprise entry and finish for that matter.
It is easy for someone who's own settlement is not subject to getting bumped to ask that others present their honest picks, don't you think?
Finally, no one actually competing for their locations have a "full membership" list. Again, not being one of the three that don't have to compete, we are still recruiting and making contacts with smaller guilds as vigorously as we did in week one. We will recruit for our settlement right up to the last minute of the land rush.
I have to agree with Bluddwolf. There is nothing about waiting to the last minute that is against the rules and as such, one interpretation of the spirit of the event is that such things could and maybe even should happen. Does anyone have an clarifying quotes from dev saying they hope no one pulls any last minute upsets?
I know the oft quoted one by Ryan suggesting just because things can happen, does not mean they should, but in this case...the last minute upsets seem to be a possible strategy, and I did not even think was controversial until this thread.
I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.
Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.
There is nothing wrong with someone making a surprise finish, or a surprise entry and finish for that matter.
It is easy for someone who's own settlement is not subject to getting bumped to ask that others present their honest picks, don't you think?
Finally, no one actually competing for their locations have a "full membership" list. Again, not being one of the three that don't have to compete, we are still recruiting and making contacts with smaller guilds as vigorously as we did in week one. We will recruit for our settlement right up to the last minute of the land rush.
I imagine Bluddwolf that anyone hoping to have a strong presence in this game should be recruiting aggressively even past the landrush. I've seen too many organisations and guilds, homes of mine and others, fall to pieces from an inactive playerbase unwilling to commit the time to play or find others who will play. There will always be strength in numbers.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There are multiple people in this community who have privately conveyed agreement with my position who I don't think wish to turn TEO/TSV against them. One of them probably felt like venting their pent up frustrations and made a separate account to do so.
Either that or it's someone with an anti-TEO/TSV agenda or who just likes to stir up fights agreeing with me to stir the pot.
Either way I can tell you it's not me. If you choose not to believe that then that's your problem.
I don't especially think that it is you, I actually have my personal opinion about whom that is. Which is not one of your "gang".
All I am saying is that you can't blame people for thinking it.
And that someone expressing himself with a fake account doesn't have any weight whatsoever in the the debate, in my eyes.
For all I know, it could be a third party who doesn't give a crap about you, and just wants to stir up chaos and confusion.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Hey guys
The offer to join the core land rush was made as part of the introduction to War of Towers, and was not in fact a blanket offer to rejoin at any point. Switching any those three guilds to the normal land rush rules in the last two weeks of the land rush we think would create too many weird and unfavorable situations so we're not going with it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey guys
The offer to join the core land rush was made as part of the introduction to War of Towers, and was not in fact a blanket offer to rejoin at any point. Switching any those three guilds to the normal land rush rules in the last two weeks of the land rush we think would create too many weird and unfavorable situations so we're not going with it.
Lee, you were 879 posts too soon! Now this thread will never reach 1000!!
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Part of having a valid discussion is understanding what motivated the discussion in the first place. Then to present the desirable end goal of each of the parties concerned. Once that is done, then and only then can there be a discussion on how to get to a compromised end goal.
What we have here is a hypothetical question that no one (that it actually applies to) seems to be involved with; no motivating factor to explain why the question was even brought up; and it is impossible to reach any end goal because a meaningful discussion can not begin without the first two parts.
The current purpose of the discussion is to gather two sets of information: First, is the offer to re-enter the competition on equal footing still open. Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey guys
The offer to join the core land rush was made as part of the introduction to War of Towers, and was not in fact a blanket offer to rejoin at any point. Switching any those three guilds to the normal land rush rules in the last two weeks of the land rush we think would create too many weird and unfavorable situations so we're not going with it.
Thanks for the straight answer.
Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
This is the first time I have seen this question. I believe the original 2 questions were "Was it still possible" and "If so, how long?"
There was never concern for the community if the original questions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey guys
The offer to join the core land rush was made as part of the introduction to War of Towers, and was not in fact a blanket offer to rejoin at any point. Switching any those three guilds to the normal land rush rules in the last two weeks of the land rush we think would create too many weird and unfavorable situations so we're not going with it.
Thank you for the heads up Mr. Hammock. It is appreciated.
To sum up everything....
Shannaningans !!!
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
This is the first time I have seen this question. I believe the original 2 questions were "Was it still possible" and "If so, how long?"
There was never concern for the community if the original questions.
Welcome back Vrelx!
That question wasn't explicit; it was in the subtext. There are layers of meaning here, and pointing out that if TEO was competing on the same rules as everyone else, they could have five low-ranking spots and still be certain of their first choice by a large margin covers a lot of them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The current purpose of the discussion is to gather two sets of information: First, is the offer to re-enter the competition on equal footing still open. Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
LOL
Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
This is the first time I have seen this question. I believe the original 2 questions were "Was it still possible" and "If so, how long?"
There was never concern for the community if the original questions.
Welcome back Vrelx!
That question wasn't explicit; it was in the subtext. There are layers of meaning here, and pointing out that if TEO was competing on the same rules as everyone else, they could have five low-ranking spots and still be certain of their first choice by a large margin covers a lot of them.
Thank you. I've been around, but just lurking. As someone who is new to pathfinder,and a little short on the cash side, I was not prepared to spend the money required to get into Early Enrollment. So the games release is a bit farther for me.
I do have so say, as someone who just peeks in from time to time, although most names, plus newer ones to me, the players themselves seemed to have change a bit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOLThe current purpose of the discussion is to gather two sets of information: First, is the offer to re-enter the competition on equal footing still open. Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
Seconded
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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SecondedLOLThe current purpose of the discussion is to gather two sets of information: First, is the offer to re-enter the competition on equal footing still open. Second, what do the people who follow these events think should happen if it is?
As a method of getting to know the community, that second point flows to an obvious instrumental goal.
Just because we know some people doesn't mean we know all the people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I fail to see how the questions asked of the Devs were somehow related to meeting other people.
I saw it as a political "trial balloon" to gauge the reaction of others. There. At have also been the unlikely hope that Lee or one of the other Devs would have come in and said the offer was still on the table.
That would have given the green light to moving excess votes out of TEO and TSV to make sure the smaller, friendly settlements surrounding the SE and make them potentially immune to any Week 10 surprises.
Problems with this:
1. Neither of the other two LR1 settlements would give up their guaranteed spots.
2. TEO prides itself on having the numbers it has, and rightly so, and would be unwilling to give up that status symbol (it has helped their recruitment), nor would they likely take the hit to their reputation.
3. The push back on the idea has been negative.
4. Members of TSV gave Golgotha such a hard time over what they perceived as a similar practice, it would seem hypocritical if it were done at this stage.
Now my speculation here might be a bit off, but it is far more plausible than this was an attempt to "Meet and Greet".
All of this is Moot! Because Lee Hammock has basically said "The bell has been rung, and you can't un ring the bell".
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I fail to see how the questions asked of the Devs were somehow related to meeting other people.
I saw it as a political "trial balloon" to gauge the reaction of others. There.
Really? You don't see how people's responses have been informative about their position.
Oh, wait, you think that finding out how people think (phrased with a positive connotation) is completely different from finding out how people think (if you phase it with a sinister connotation). And you claim that you don't see how anything your opponent does could be described with a positive connotation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, wait, you think that finding out how people think (phrased with a positive connotation) is completely different from finding out how people think (if you phase it with a sinister connotation). And you claim that you don't see how anything your opponent does could be described with a positive connotation.
I don't place a positive or negative connotation to the objective of gathering information.
I have no issue with you trying to see what you can get away with. It is a smart move, there was always a chance that the devs would have said yes.
I think it is pretty clear to all, I believe that "If it can be done, it will be done, and if it serves my purpose I will do it".
My only exceptions to that are known exploits, things that I feel are an exploit (and I would report it) and griefing (according to my definition of it).
Don't bother with Ryan's quote to the contrary. I will not limit myself by the scapegoat of "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, but there will be no punishment if you do". That is a Green Light! in my book.
That is exactly what Ryan said with the LR1 winners when it came to shifting votes. You all chose not to shift votes, good for you.
Just for clarifications, the land rush is an in-game activity. So the views I'm expressing are in-character or from a Chaotic Neutral (evil) point of view.
Give me an inch, I'll take a mile along with the gold teeth in your head and the shoes off your feet if I can get an advantage from it. ;-)
Don't bother with Ryan's quote to the contrary. I will not limit myself by the scapegoat of "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, but there will be no punishment if you do". That is a Green Light! in my book.
Welp, the policeman asked me to stop dissecting these live gerbils and said he feels it's kinda non-classy, but he's not arresting me for it! Green light! Pass the scalpel!
Is live gerbil dissection illegal in the US, actually? Come to think of it, it probably is. Maybe I should Google it.
Then again, maybe not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...I'll take a mile along with the gold teeth in your head and the shoes off your feet..."Whatever is not nailed down is mine. What I can pry loose is not nailed down." - David Starr Jordan
Thieves respect property. They merely wish the property to become their property that they may more perfectly respect it. ` Gilbert K. Chesterton
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you choose to have your character make a public statement, expect that people will attribute your character's statement and motives to you.
Not that I care, but that is not the usual consideration of clearly stating something is said "in character". The social norm of MMOs is that IC is not attributed to the player, while OOC is. Considering many of us will have multiple characters, and some will be playing very different characters (mains vs alts) attributing IC comments to all characters of the same player is inaccurate.
But as I said, I'm not all that concerned about it. I have no problem with my character's statement either.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will not limit myself by the scapegoat of "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, but there will be no punishment if you do". That is a Green Light! in my book.
What if their actual stance is "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, and we will arbitrarily punish this behavior in a heartbeat if we think that's good for the game"?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will not limit myself by the scapegoat of "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, but there will be no punishment if you do". That is a Green Light! in my book.What if their actual stance is "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, and we will arbitrarily punish this behavior in a heartbeat if we think that's good for the game"?
"but there will be no punishment if you do". Was part of my statement. If you introduced the exact opposite, my statement no longer applies.
The mindset I want to make clear I reject, on the part of developers, is that they have a known issue in the game and instead of fixing it they tell us nothing about it. They don't admit it exists, they don't declare it an exploit, they don't fix it, but they expect the player to just not do it.
If it is not a big enough deal to fix, it's not a big enough deal not to use.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I will not limit myself by the scapegoat of "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, but there will be no punishment if you do". That is a Green Light! in my book.What if their actual stance is "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, and we will arbitrarily punish this behavior in a heartbeat if we think that's good for the game"?"but there will be no punishment if you do". Was part of my statement. If you introduced the exact opposite, my statement no longer applies.
The mindset I want to make clear I reject, on the part of developers, is that they have a known issue in the game and instead of fixing it they tell us nothing about it. They don't admit it exists, they don't declare it an exploit, they don't fix it, but they expect the player to just not do it.
If it is not a big enough deal to fix, it's not a big enough deal not to use.
That hasn't, and won't, happen. Exploits have already been declared to be against the spirit of the game and using them is subject to arbitrary and capricious punishment.
The stance regarding a known issue that hasn't been publicized is much closer to "Well you can do it, but we prefer you don't, and we will arbitrarily punish this behavior in a heartbeat if we think that's good for the game" than "... and we won't punish it".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Considering many of us will have multiple characters, and some will be playing very different characters (mains vs alts) attributing IC comments to all characters of the same player is inaccurate.
But as I said, I'm not all that concerned about it. I have no problem with my character's statement either.
Now, it makes Fult sooo curious to know Bluddwolf's relatives... Maybe a benignant gnome with gardening skills and a passion for astronomy? or a lunatic sorcerer searching for old grimoires? <Fult let his mind consider all kinds of possibilities>
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now, it makes Fult sooo curious to know Bluddwolf's relatives... Maybe a benignant gnome with gardening skills and a passion for astronomy? or a lunatic sorcerer searching for old grimoires? <Fult let his mind consider all kinds of possibilities>Considering many of us will have multiple characters, and some will be playing very different characters (mains vs alts) attributing IC comments to all characters of the same player is inaccurate.
But as I said, I'm not all that concerned about it. I have no problem with my character's statement either.
He could be a kind and gentle Lawful Good Monk who gathers herbs, makes healing salves and walks the Earth healing those in need. A man who will defend the weak but not to seek to harm the wicked, but to show them another way.
He could be a man who strives to reach perfection of body, mind and spirit and to have in balance his life internal and external.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now, it makes Fult sooo curious to know Bluddwolf's relatives... Maybe a benignant gnome with gardening skills and a passion for astronomy? or a lunatic sorcerer searching for old grimoires? <Fult let his mind consider all kinds of possibilities>Considering many of us will have multiple characters, and some will be playing very different characters (mains vs alts) attributing IC comments to all characters of the same player is inaccurate.
But as I said, I'm not all that concerned about it. I have no problem with my character's statement either.
He could be a Chaotic Evil Necromancer, who wishes to see the whole world burn. A smallish man, very sinister in his sense of humor but ver foul in his desire to inflict pain and suffering to others.
He would buy entire families of slaves and the one by one, kill each, cannibalize all bit their faces, animate their corpses and send each into the cage of their family to kill the next. He will revel in their screams of horror! Then when all that his left are a half dozen or so animated dead, he will order them all into the cage, shut the door and then nuke them with a fire ball.
All of this while proudly flying the heinous flag, wearing a green hat and dancing and signing praise to Rovagug.
Inefficient use of massacred slave families. Slips would be cheaper, you know.