CEO, Goblinworks
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
In the interest of transparency, I wanted to share with the community the message I just sent to the leaders of the 3 guilds who won Phase I of the Land Rush - Emyprean Order, Pax Aeternum and the Seventh Veil:
Dear Guild Leaders: Please feel free to distribute this message as widely as you wish - this is all public info!
Congratulations on winning Phase I of the Guild Land Rush!
When we created the promotion in the middle of the 2nd Kickstarter campaign for Pathfinder Online we were trying everything we could think of to help get people excited enough about the project to back it and thus help us hit our funding goal. With the help of folks like you the community responded magnificently and we were able to achieve our goal, which led directly to our being able to expand the development team and speed up the delivery of the game substantially. Both of those factors helped reduce the risk in the project (risk that with all MMOs is already immense!) The time is drawing near for players to begin their first days of exploration in the River Kingdoms and to start telling their own stories in our sandbox.
We announced recently that 3 guilds were being recognized as the "winners" of the Phase I Guild Land Rush: The Empyrean Order, Pax Aeternum and The Seventh Veil. Those 3 guilds were given the chance to select a starting hex to put their initial Settlement into as Early Enrollment begins, and exempted from the need to continue to compete in Phase II of the Land Rush promotion.
We wanted to clarify a few things subsequent to that announcement, and preceding the opening of Phase II to avoid potential confusion.
Everyone who voted for a Guild other than the 3 winners is a "free agent" in Phase II. They can affiliate themselves with any Guild they would like in Phase II.
If you voted for one of the 3 winners in Phase I, we ask that you not take part in Phase II. Your votes have already been counted, and your impact on the game is assured.
Every vote cast in Phase I was recorded by Paizo by Pazio.com username. So if necessary, we can extract the list of user accounts who voted in Phase I and match them to the users who will participate in Phase II and identify people who have decided to violate this request. We hope we won't have to do that - it's a lot of work, and we have an MMO to build. But to protect the integrity of Phase II, we want to make sure everyone knows it can and will be done if we deem it necessary.
One of the first questions we have been asked is if a Guild can have a second entry in Phase II. We would like to discourage that. The purpose of the Land Rush is to get as wide an audience as possible for the game and if you already have won Phase I, adding a new guild to compete in Phase II isn't helping us meet that goal.
A follow on question to that regards federations of guilds where several independent groups pledge to work together in-game. This is a bit of a corner-case but we would rather err on the side of engagement than in disengagement. So we are ok with federated guilds participating in Phase II, with the proviso that anyone who voted for a winning guild in Phase I is still ineligible to participate in Phase II. A "federated guild" is a separate organization of people organized primarily independently of a guild that won Phase I, not just a subset of a winning Phase I guild's members who want to have their own identity and take part in Phase II.
The last question we got involves members of a winning Phase I guild who did not vote in the Phase I poll. Technically, these people are free to participate in the Phase II promotion by affiliating themselves with another guild. The temptation to use this exception as a way to create a shadow guild to snag two (or more) spots in the Land Rush will be high, and we strongly urge you not to do so. If you don't plan to play as a member of another guild, we'd ask that you just not participate in Phase II of the land rush. There are so many potential special cases and exceptions within this aspect of the promotion that we can't write a hard & fast rule to cover them all. So we're asking for you to each use your individual discretion and best judgement: If it feels like what you're doing goes against the spirit of the promotion - getting new people interested and excited about Pathfinder Online - we suggest that you opt out of taking part in Phase II.
Being one of the first Settlements in the game is going to be an extraordinary experience. You'll get to see all the "behind the scenes" work that we'll have to do to implement the dozens of features needed to enable our vision for Settlements to become real in game and you'll get to help is prioritize that work and guide us in its implementation. You'll also see, warts and all, how something this complex is developed and along the way you will have a chance to help us find and fix bugs, system malfunctions, and unintended consequences of every stripe. But the upside for that hard work is going to be a unique and amazing experience that people will be talking about and remembering for many many years to come.
Again, congratulations for your success, and we can't wait to see you all in-game soon!
Sincerely,
Ryan S. Dancey
CEO Goblinworks
www.goblinworks.com
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If it feels like what you're doing goes against the spirit of the promotion - getting new people interested and excited about Pathfinder Online - we suggest that you opt out of taking part in Phase II.
Roger. You're coming in loud and clear. We'll find other ways to support our friends and allies than sending votes their way.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Thank you Ryan for clarifying the situation. Might this be (sticky) thread?
Can things be 'un stickied'? This will only be relevant for a few weeks and then could be allowed to drift into obscurity. At that, the existing 'sticky' posts in this forum might not need to be any longer.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Mention of creating shadow guilds, and earlier mention of new guilds as part of the land rush.
Is there going to be a new $500 membership that can be bought in the store to make one eligible to create such a guild?
Or is any EE member eligible to apply for the creation of a guild going into the land rush?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The way I read the blog is that any one who purchased an EE level pledge would be able to register a guild for this Phase II Landrush. If that is not the case it does need to be clarified.
The system, as currently programmed, allows any user with EE or higher to apply to found a guild. Those applications do have to be approved by Goblinworks staff before they are considered part of the land rush.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
One point of clarification to make sure I'm complying. I am part of one of the Three. I purchased a Guild Forger account back during the KS with the intent of recruiting my friends to the game once it got close to going forward as they aren't the Paizo fans that I am. So, after the LR 1 vote, I recruited them over the last couple of days to take the slots.
Can they form a Chartered Company separate from my current Guild and apply for a LR settlement?
Could I quit my current Guild and join them, even though I don't vote?
Could we do that knowing that one day we'd hope to be allied with said Big Three guild, but knowing that it won't matter for a while considering the distance?
What can they do with their votes if they decide to join the Big Three Guild instead? Just sit on them?
Thanks for the help. This is actually tougher on the Good guilds as they feel guilty twisting the rules to their advantage while the Lawful guilds figure that anything that meets the rules is fair game (I jest, I jest...)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
One point of clarification to make sure I'm complying. I am part of one of the Three. I purchased a Guild Forger account back during the KS with the intent of recruiting my friends to the game once it got close to going forward as they aren't the Paizo fans that I am. So, after the LR 1 vote, I recruited them over the last couple of days to take the slots.
Can they form a Chartered Company separate from my current Guild and apply for a LR settlement?
Could I quit my current Guild and join them, even though I don't vote?
Could we do that knowing that one day we'd hope to be allied with said Big Three guild, but knowing that it won't matter for a while considering the distance?
What can they do with their votes if they decide to join the Big Three Guild instead? Just sit on them?
Thanks for the help. This is actually tougher on the Good guilds as they feel guilty twisting the rules to their advantage while the Lawful guilds figure that anything that meets the rules is fair game (I jest, I jest...)
I see what you did there.
|
CEO, Goblinworks
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One point of clarification to make sure I'm complying.
Answers to four questions follows.
Can they form a Chartered Company separate from my current Guild and apply for a LR settlement?
If the people you are talking about did not vote in the first Land Rush poll, they are free to participate in this one.
This is a poll for guilds, not Chartered Companies or Settlements. That's just terminology though. In this context "Guild" just means "a group of people who want a Settlement".
So one of them (provided they can participate per the above) can request to have a Guild created for the promotion and the other people could become affiliated with it.
Of course, this may fall afoul of our request to not do this if the people involved are not actually planning on playing as an independent group in-game but are really just more members of a guild that won Phase I of the promotion. You will have to look deep inside your hearts and decide if that's true or false.
Could I quit my current Guild and join them, even though I don't vote?
Sure, why not?
Could we do that knowing that one day we'd hope to be allied with said Big Three guild, but knowing that it won't matter for a while considering the distance?
Only you can know how honestly separate you intend to be, vs. just being another part of a guild that won Phase I.
What can they do with their votes if they decide to join the Big Three Guild instead? Just sit on them?
Yes.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
I think it's clear in the description of "federations" that they need to consist of groups different from the big three, interacting meaningfully with them, and not subsets of the big three trying to extend their grasp.
Within those constraints there's a lot of room for strategic planning and gaming the voting system; for a concrete example, consider the case where two allied or friendly groups ranked 5th and 19th in the first week, with the larger group getting their first choice but the smaller group not getting any nearby site. By having members of the larger group join the smaller one, they would be improve their odds of getting sites close to each other.
If the players in such a situation intended to play with a group other than the one they joined during the land rush, but not one of the big three, would strategically positioning their vote for a friend's group be inappropriate or against the spirit of the Land Rush?
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cross posted from the blog discussion:
Hey all
So new option we are going to add to the Land Rush. Those three guilds that already have settlement slots (TEO, T7V and Pax) can all create guilds for for the land rush, have people join them, etc, but they won't be counted when we are apportioning out settlements. Basically they will show up on the guild list and on the leader boards, but won't actually be getting settlements aside from the ones they already have. This way they can get their description, motto, weblinks, etc out there with all the other guilds, plus it gives a guild for members of those guilds to join do during the Land Rush.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Pax has made our statements to the respective Golgotha-Aeternum membership on how we wish to move forward.
In an effort for full disclosure, those statements are HERE as well as reiterated HERE and are readable at the visitor level.
Golgotha will be voting in the new land rush, but will do so via their own membership. What votes were lost via confused cross voting before this statement was issued is to be considered a permanent "loss".
Golgotha was it's own separate entity of merged CC's before we began alliance talks. They still exist as that separate entity as Pax Gaming members, they just have the ability to join us in our other games while this one is still prelaunch.
Pax Gaming takes developer EULA's and requests very seriously. I, Deacon Wulf, or Rawn (the lead chair of the Pax Community) as always available for developer discussions of violations of rules or the spirit of rules / requests.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pax has made our statements to the respective Golgotha-Aeternum membership on how we wish to move forward.
In an effort for full disclosure, those statements are HERE as well as reiterated HERE and are readable at the visitor level.
Golgotha will be voting in the new land rush, but will do so via their own membership. What votes were lost via confused cross voting before this statement was issued is to be considered a permanent "loss".
Golgotha was it's own separate entity of merged CC's before we began alliance talks. They still exist as that separate entity as Pax Gaming members, they just have the ability to join us in our other games while this one is still prelaunch.
Pax Gaming takes developer EULA's and requests very seriously. I, Deacon Wulf, or Rawn (the lead chair of the Pax Community) as always available for developer discussions of violations of rules or the spirit of rules / requests.
Lee Hammock posted this in another thread, it resolves that issue.
If you have an EE account you can apply to join any guild you want and help them get a settlement. Maybe trade your vote for promise of future favors in game? You won't get to choose settlements directly, the guild administrator does that, but you can affect what guilds get to choose. You don't have to join that settlement once the game starts; this isn't a binding contract.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan, given this:
Because this new feature may affect the choices that the winners of Phase I of the Land Rush made about siting their Settlements, we've extended the option to them to relinquish their pre-selected locations and enter the Leaderboard like all the other Guilds. If any choose to accept that offer, we'll let everyone know immediately.
If one of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot, would that also release them from the restrictions you placed on us in this thread?
Is there a deadline for making that choice?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
That seems like a really scary question, I can already see an easy abuse of it. Say TEO decided to 'opt out of the guarantee' they can still split off up to 93 people without giving away their preferred location. That would let them currently grab something like 10ish extra settlements if they wanted to organize the maneuver. Anyone else in the original 3 could do the same to a much lesser extent, especially if they know their comparable competitors aren't going to try and move them.
I would be very sad if such actions were allowed as they could remove what little diversity we currently have, a diversity that is close to non-existent as is given that 2 quasi alliances/nations already make up almost half the settlements.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan, given this:
Because this new feature may affect the choices that the winners of Phase I of the Land Rush made about siting their Settlements, we've extended the option to them to relinquish their pre-selected locations and enter the Leaderboard like all the other Guilds. If any choose to accept that offer, we'll let everyone know immediately.If one of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot, would that also release them from the restrictions you placed on us in this thread?
Is there a deadline for making that choice?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:HAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
LOL even
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ryan, given this:
Because this new feature may affect the choices that the winners of Phase I of the Land Rush made about siting their Settlements, we've extended the option to them to relinquish their pre-selected locations and enter the Leaderboard like all the other Guilds. If any choose to accept that offer, we'll let everyone know immediately.If one of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot, would that also release them from the restrictions you placed on us in this thread?
Is there a deadline for making that choice?
If one of the Big 3 gives up their spot, what happens to that spot in the Land Rush? Also would the request that members that voted for one of the Big 3 to still vote for that settlement as to not be counted twice, still be valid?At that point they place like everyone else and follow the same rules as everyone else.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
You smell that?...... Smells like....... Fear!
Fear of what? Week 10 is near! Who knows who and what is lurking in the wings, just waiting for week 10, then we may see dozens of groups swoop in from nowhere with 50+ members and bump out all of those small guilds.
Week 10.... Bring on the Chaos!!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
LinkIf one of the Big 3 gives up their spot, what happens to that spot in the Land Rush? Also would the request that members that voted for one of the Big 3 to still vote for that settlement as to not be counted twice, still be valid?At that point they place like everyone else and follow the same rules as everyone else.
Thanks for the link, but since Ryan put the restrictions on us, I think it's important to hear directly from Ryan before assuming they no longer apply.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan, given this:
Because this new feature may affect the choices that the winners of Phase I of the Land Rush made about siting their Settlements, we've extended the option to them to relinquish their pre-selected locations and enter the Leaderboard like all the other Guilds. If any choose to accept that offer, we'll let everyone know immediately.If one of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot, would that also release them from the restrictions you placed on us in this thread?
Is there a deadline for making that choice?
LinkIf one of the Big 3 gives up their spot, what happens to that spot in the Land Rush? Also would the request that members that voted for one of the Big 3 to still vote for that settlement as to not be counted twice, still be valid?At that point they place like everyone else and follow the same rules as everyone else.
What I get from this is that if one of the LR1 winners give up their spot, they can move their votes, but they also give up their guarantee for a spot. They can not in week 10 say, "Oh crap that didn't work , but at least we still have a spot".
I don't believe you are giving up a location but also the guaranteed spot.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Thanks for the link, but since Ryan put the restrictions on us, I think it's important to hear directly from Ryan before assuming they no longer apply.LinkIf one of the Big 3 gives up their spot, what happens to that spot in the Land Rush? Also would the request that members that voted for one of the Big 3 to still vote for that settlement as to not be counted twice, still be valid?At that point they place like everyone else and follow the same rules as everyone else.
Personally I would take what Lee says as official because if it wasn't, I think he would of said so. Kind of a big thing for them not to be on the same page about, but hopefully Ryan will jump in and ease your concerns. Which then of course will undoubtedly raise the concerns of others. lol :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan, given this:
Because this new feature may affect the choices that the winners of Phase I of the Land Rush made about siting their Settlements, we've extended the option to them to relinquish their pre-selected locations and enter the Leaderboard like all the other Guilds. If any choose to accept that offer, we'll let everyone know immediately.If one of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot, would that also release them from the restrictions you placed on us in this thread?
Is there a deadline for making that choice?
LinkIf one of the Big 3 gives up their spot, what happens to that spot in the Land Rush? Also would the request that members that voted for one of the Big 3 to still vote for that settlement as to not be counted twice, still be valid?At that point they place like everyone else and follow the same rules as everyone else.What I get from this is that if one of the LR1 winners give up their spot, they can move their votes, but they also give up their guarantee for a spot. They can not in week 10 say, "Oh crap that didn't work , but at least we still have a spot".
I don't believe you are giving up a location but also the guaranteed spot.
I agree with this assessment as well and felt that was implied. I was curious if that meant the vacated spots would then be open for anyone to take. Meaning then we would have 33 spots to choose from instead of 30.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Personally I would take what Lee says as official because if it wasn't, I think he would of said so. Kind of a big thing for them not to be on the same page about, but hopefully Ryan will jump in and ease your concerns. Which then of course will undoubtedly raise the concerns of others. lol :)
There's also the question of the deadline for making the choice. It seems obvious to me that we should at least give all the other Settlements the opportunity to react to the fact that our Settlement locations are now available in their Draft list.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Personally I would take what Lee says as official because if it wasn't, I think he would of said so. Kind of a big thing for them not to be on the same page about, but hopefully Ryan will jump in and ease your concerns. Which then of course will undoubtedly raise the concerns of others. lol :)There's also the question of the deadline for making the choice. It seems obvious to me that we should at least give all the other Settlements the opportunity to react to the fact that our Settlement locations are now available in their Draft list.
Absolutely makes sense to me.
I was just letting you know what Lee said on the matter when I asked a similar question. ;)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree with this assessment as well and felt that was implied. I was curious if that meant the vacated spots would then be open for anyone to take. Meaning then we would have 33 spots to choose from instead of 30.
Yes, obviously we'd lose our guarantee to a Settlement spot. I didn't think that was ever in question.
Also, Lee made clear to us at least that our current spots would then appear on everyone else's Settlement Draft page. So yes, there could be anywhere from 30 to 33 locations in the Settlement Draft list depending on how many of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't see it as abuse. If one of the 3 gives up their spots for a new one, their votes should count just like everyone else.That seems like a really scary question, I can already see an easy abuse of it.The only thing keeping us from abusing it right now is our integrity.
Relinquishing our spot would not be abusive. Instructing our members to vote for other Settlements, or forming "shadow guilds" to capture additional Settlements without relinquishing our spots would be abusive.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Meaning then we would have 33 spots to choose from instead of 30.
One issue is that the three hexes held by the top three LR1 groups no longer have letter designations. That would need to be rectified by GW in order to keep 33 settlements being awarded, if those top groups were to vacate and split up.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree with this assessment as well and felt that was implied. I was curious if that meant the vacated spots would then be open for anyone to take. Meaning then we would have 33 spots to choose from instead of 30.Yes, obviously we'd lose our guarantee to a Settlement spot. I didn't think that was ever in question.
Also, Lee made clear to us at least that our current spots would then appear on everyone else's Settlement Draft page. So yes, there could be anywhere from 30 to 33 locations in the Settlement Draft list depending on how many of the three winners of the first Land Rush chose to relinquish their guaranteed spot.
Very interesting. Well I'm sure there will be a lot of chatter among the community today about this topic.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Seems unfair to allow guilds a guaranteed spot, which is a powerful tool to gain additional members, and then in the last week say, Never mind,, but enjoy all those extra votes you got.
Yeah all of the biggest risers have been groups vying for spots. Plus, where is your spirit of adventure?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Seems unfair to allow guilds a guaranteed spot, which is a powerful tool to gain additional members, and then in the last week say, Never mind,, but enjoy all those extra votes you got.
I agree. It seems like it would be a bit uneven to be able to sit on the option for several weeks and then only exercise it once fairly sure there'd be no danger of getting bumped out of the landrush. I presumed it was a short term offer and long expired.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Seems unfair to allow guilds a guaranteed spot, which is a powerful tool to gain additional members, and then in the last week say, Never mind,, but enjoy all those extra votes you got.
Nothing is holding those extra votes there now. At this moment the top ten "guilds" are virtually guaranteed a spot out of the 30 spots. I'm sure someone more proficient than I in mathematics can determine what the influx of votes there would have to be to push the current top ten off the board.
Talonguard at 94: So it would take 95 x 30 or 2850 new votes, evenly distributed into 30 new guilds to push all of the current leader board guilds off the board.
Edit: add another 950 to push out of top 40.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
None of the three has grown significantly during Land Rush 2, Sunnfire, so everyone's dodged one bullet.
The Emyprean Order (117 votes), Pax Aeternum (78 votes), and The Seventh Veil (56 votes)
I find your definition of 'not growing significantly' interesting.
Yeah all of the biggest risers have been groups vying for spots. Plus, where is your spirit of adventure?
I have plenty of spirit ;) If that's what happens then I will roll with that, and have a good time. I mean. I did mention how much I liked the southern mountains the first time I talked to you guys.
But it does seem that if you say, this is set in stone and people spend a lot of time with that as the SOP, that later saying.. just kidding,, is a big pile of s++*.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree with Sunnfire, changing the rules half way through the game that gives the already advantaged team a bigger advantage feels dirty. And we're still only talking about a fraction the real populace but possibly giving that controlling 'minority' a lot of control over the starting map which in turn could translate into far better recruitment numbers over time plus whatever they were planning to bring in during OE.
I'll roll with the punches, but don't think I'll be happy about it or friendly towards those that abuse it if such a thing happens.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The opportunity for the LR 1 winners to jump into LR 2 and move spots was being offered in case the three winners of LR 1 decided that they did not care for the tower arrangement around their chosen settlement. Not having known about the affect of towers on their settlements when their initial choice was made, they were being given the opportunity to move. Obviously, none of them chose to do so.
That tells me that they analyzed their placement relative to the surrounding towers, and were happy with their original choices. It has been over a month since that blog and the offer of the choice to move. Multiple weekly vote tallies have occurred - vote tallies that all of the LR 1 winners have passed through, immune to being bumped while other groups were not. To have sat safely through weeks of vote tallies, and now get to bump nearly anyone they wish from their spot, seems quite unfair. That these three groups won the privilege of first pick and immunity seems more than enough reward for their earlier efforts.
What has not changed since the original offer is the location of towers - so the real reason for the offer to the LR1 winners to move if they wished has not changed since they apparently decided to stay put. I can only conclude that a desire to move this late in the game arises for other reasons - and not for the reason the opportunity was extended in the first place.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Everything has advantages and disadvantages.
Why should this be any different.
You were offered the chance to play in round 2 of the land rush. Twice by my count, and the second time was understandable, but still crappy for everyone else involved had any of you decided to take it. Given that you had enjoyed immunity, and the other benefits of having a 'set in stone' place.