Restrictions for Winners of Phase 1 of the Guild Land Rush


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Goblin Squad Member

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Let me be the first to say this....

The Empyrean Order does not into to relinquish its hold on the LR1 winning position. We do not intend to seed other organizations with votes, nor do we intend to take more than one landrush spot. As a matter of fact what we do want is for other groups on the Landrush to merge into Brighthaven. Since day one they have been saying that settlements will need large numbers to survive, given we have almost 200 people, Brighthaven starting out will still be extremely small.

Very soon we will be publicly posting the Brighthaven Charter with a call to all companies to join. Should be interesting times ahead.


Nihimon wrote:
I would hope that the fundamental principle behind offering the winners of the first Land Rush the opportunity to relinquish their guaranteed spot would be to ensure that their status as winners does not turn into a disadvantage relative to those who didn't win.

Clearly if someone has established themselves in a position and you move them from that position, that is a disadvantage.

All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.

And this happens minutes after Mystical Awakening joins your rivals in Xeilias? Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.

Goblin Squad Member

I can confirm Cheatle's statements are correct, both on the front of our LR1 commitment and our renewed efforts behind promoting Brighthaven. If your group is good aligned, and concerned about either your land rush location or not making it, please consider Brighthaven as a choice for a home. Feel free to PM directly with inquiries!

Now back to our regularly scheduled "Why are you asking these suspicious questions?" thread!

Goblin Squad Member

Obvious Sam wrote:
All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.

It's really surprising - and interesting - to me to watch everyone's reaction. I asked Ryan a couple of simple questions that folks apparently want to read a lot into. The Seventh Veil has no intention of moving anywhere, and we're extremely unlikely to relinquish our guaranteed spot. The idea that we "didn't think this through" is silly. I have no intention of revealing what prompted me to ask these questions, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with regrets about where we are on the map or who our neighbors are.

Goblin Squad Member

Excellent... it does not change my opinion on the matter.
Nor does it change or affect any of the previous arguments.

But I do appreciate the clear statement of intent.

TEO Cheatle wrote:
Since day one they have been saying that settlements will need large numbers to survive, given we have almost 200 people, Brighthaven starting out will still be extremely small.

This I agree with more than you know.

TEO Cheatle wrote:
Very soon we will be publicly posting the Brighthaven Charter with a call to all companies to join.

I look forward to reading and discussing it.

@Nihimon ... a badge for what?

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
@Nihimon ... a badge for what?

You seemed surprisingly perturbed by my questions to Ryan. I was thinking back to our first conversation on TeamSpeak. It's not important...


Nihimon wrote:
Obvious Sam wrote:
All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.

It's really surprising - and interesting - to me to watch everyone's reaction. I asked Ryan a couple of simple questions that folks apparently want to read a lot into. The Seventh Veil has no intention of moving anywhere, and we're extremely unlikely to relinquish our guaranteed spot. The idea that we "didn't think this through" is silly. I have no intention of revealing what prompted me to ask these questions, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with regrets about where we are on the map or who our neighbors are.

Obviously.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
The idea that we "didn't think this through" is silly.

Agreed.. I thought the exact opposite in fact.

And your reasons for asking are irrelevant.

The question has been posed, and people should state their opinions. Based on facts and the possibilities as they see them. Personally I have no issue with anyone in the three LR1 settlements. I just think this would be a crappy thing to allow, regardless of who intends to do it or not, or who might do it or not.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
Obvious Sam wrote:
All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.

It's really surprising - and interesting - to me to watch everyone's reaction. I asked Ryan a couple of simple questions that folks apparently want to read a lot into. The Seventh Veil has no intention of moving anywhere, and we're extremely unlikely to relinquish our guaranteed spot. The idea that we "didn't think this through" is silly. I have no intention of revealing what prompted me to ask these questions, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with regrets about where we are on the map or who our neighbors are.

Really? If you had no intention of putting votes in other settlements then why bother bringing up the questions you asked? There are only 3 settlements with that option.

Callambea is happy where they are. Which leaves the other two who are allies. TEO has the numbers to get other settlements, but they made it clear they are not moving. Finally there is T7V, which you are running, and you are asking questions about the rules.

You cannot be asking questions for other groups to benefit from the info. There are no other groups who care. There is only you who is doing the asking... Therefore; you are looking at moving some votes around to help an ally or even create a second settlement.

Back Pedal all you want

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
@Nihimon ... a badge for what?
You seemed surprisingly perturbed by my questions to Ryan. I was thinking back to our first conversation on TeamSpeak. It's not important...

ooooooohh. Gotcha, well week 10 is fast approaching.. all will be revealed soon enough... or maybe not?

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
ooooooohh. Gotcha, well week 10 is fast approaching.. all will be revealed soon enough... or maybe not?

Please tell me you are at least hinting to some chaos!

/rubs hands together

Goblin Squad Member

How can it not be chaos?

Goblin Squad Member

Xeen wrote:


Really? If you had no intention of putting votes in other settlements then why bother bringing up the questions you asked?

I would ask the question just to screw with people. But that's me.

I'm sure there are several people who could chime in on that score.

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
Xeen wrote:


Really? If you had no intention of putting votes in other settlements then why bother bringing up the questions you asked?

I would ask the question just to screw with people. But that's me.

I'm sure there are several people who could chime in on that score.

Oh sure, they could move around and displace people... but apparently they like the spot they chose...

Err, Integrity or something... Yeah thats it

Goblin Squad Member

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'No one has plans to move but we're asking a question about moving/shifting votes for no particular reason'

You're asking the question for one reason or another. There are four possibilities:

1. Considering such actions
2. Concern someone else is considering it
3. Drawing attention to the possibility with some other intent
4. Random curiosity

While #4 is plausible if it's the reason then everything said is irrelevant and nothing will change, we can discard it as an option to waste time thinking about. Two of three with close ties have claimed it's not #1 (and I'm glad to hear it), so that leaves #2 and #3. Two is at least somewhat a benevolent action so I doubt most of us would be too upset about it if it drew attention to a potential area a lot of us would be concerned about.

So that leaves #3, now I doubt you want to give anyone else ideas, which means I would lean towards it's a defensive question. Which is interesting as I can only think of one scenario that would fit that line of reasoning.

I suppose #5 exists, you could all be lying. I would be incredibly surprised if that was true, as it would really shatter your reputations, but it's technically possible.

Goblin Squad Member

The problem with a defensive option... is it does exactly what he said they would never consider due to integrity... move votes around to help an ally stay where they are. They have no reason to be defensive about themselves.

They could also move votes around to help someone get into a beneficial position. For Example... Displacing Aragon (or whoever) so they have a settlement in the middle of the NC.

The only other reason to be able to move is to displace others around the map.

So again, Integrity and yadda

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xeen wrote:
<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
Xeen wrote:


Really? If you had no intention of putting votes in other settlements then why bother bringing up the questions you asked?

I would ask the question just to screw with people. But that's me.

I'm sure there are several people who could chime in on that score.

Oh sure, they could move around and displace people... but apparently they like the spot they chose...

Err, Integrity or something... Yeah thats it

Personal attacks really have no place in a rules debate.

If you want to discuss the potential character flaws and personal integridy of other people you should start another topic to that end, or take it to PM's

Goblin Squad Member

Not interested

Goblin Squad Member

You never know you might make some friends.

Goblin Squad Member

I have plenty, I have no interest in making friends with Nihimon

As per usual, my posts have been flagged and will be removed when a moderator shows up. Its ok though, I got to point out the Integrity that is followed. His questions are a complete turn around from his statements about the others in the top 10.

Goblin Squad Member

... hah! I meant more along the lines of talk to other people about why you hold such an opinion of someone, not talk to said person.

But your interpretation of my statement is more fun.

Goblin Squad Member

The big three were given the right to give up their safe spots and compete with everyone else. Not one of them has indicated that they want to do that yet.

I figure it is okay for them to choose to do that up to and including week 9 but totally unfair for them to do that week 10, when no one has a chance to react to them leaving their safe settlements.

Now whether or not they can then split up into smaller settlements after leaving their safe spots so late in the land rush is something I'm not comfortable with. Empyrean Order and Pax could split into 2 or 3 smaller groups and while some of the middle-size groups might get bumped if they did, the ones really affected would be the lower 2-5 groups who have less than a dozen folks in them. They would lose a chance for a settlement.

I wouldn't grouse too much if Lee said that was okay for week 9 but would yell to high heaven if he okayed it for week 10.

IF, and I emphasize IF, they were allowed to do that, those bumped folks might finally decide to join some other settlement so there would be a benefit to those settlements the smaller companies joined. Like joining Kabal! The fun, happy settlement!

Goblin Squad Member

I guess someone should have watered their daisies.

Goblin Squad Member

Xeen wrote:
The problem with a defensive option... is it does exactly what he said they would never consider due to integrity... move votes around to help an ally stay where they are.

For the record, I said I would never knowingly violate the spirit of the restrictions placed on us by Paizo or Goblinworks. If those restrictions were removed, we would be as free to "vote swap" as all of the guilds that are already free of those restrictions. We would even be free to move all of our votes to an ally and take up residence in their Settlement for the time being, but that's just hypothetical...

Goblin Squad Member

<kabal> Bunibuni wrote:
I figure it is okay for them to choose to do that up to and including week 9 but totally unfair for them to do that week 10, when no one has a chance to react to them leaving their safe settlements.

I agree that it's obviously very important to ensure that other guilds have an opportunity to react to the new locations in the Settlement Draft list, and said as much earlier.

I suppose it's an open question of how much time they should have to react. Technically, they can change their draft order right up until midnight...

Goblin Squad Member

Obvious Sam wrote:
Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.

Correction. I was the only one in their little organization with any foresight. And thank you for voicing that.

Goblin Squad Member

They can't react to a move until the move has happened, so any change to draft order after the week 9 cutoff will not be known by others until after the week 10 results are published. The smallest window is about 6.5 days.

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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I'd like to say that I understand some of your apprehension in regard to Nihimon's questions. They seem very suspect.

However, when KE (the company formerly known as Pax Mercatorum) was dealing with T7V and considering our move to Phaeros, they implored us to not vote if we had voted for one of the winners in the first phase.

They (Nihimon and Cheatle, I believe) were quite adamant that they not game the system in any way. I think Nihimon is being honest here.

But then again, why should any of you trust me?

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
They can't react to a move until the move has happened, so any change to draft order after the week 9 cutoff will not be known by others until after the week 10 results are published. The smallest window is about 6.5 days.

I'm not suggesting they need to be able to react to "a move". I'm saying they need to be able to react to a change in the options on their Settlement Draft list.

As a hypothetical, consider the case of a guild that has been sitting with 1 member for 9 weeks, then has all their members show up to vote for them late Sunday night right before the Week 10 draft. Or even a number of "shadow guilds" sitting with 1 member waiting to precisely place a large number of votes for maximum effect. Those are very real possibilities right now.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius the Afflicted wrote:
Obvious Sam wrote:
Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.
Correction. I was the only one in their little organization with any foresight. And thank you for voicing that.

Corrections. There was a lot of foresight and discussion involved in TEO/TSV spots. KotC was involved in the discussion too. We listened to Andius but most didn't like K and then when it was clear to Andius he wasn't going to get his way. He stopped showing up to the TS meetings.

There was so much discussions and questions involved in our south east selections that I personally was getting a little bit frustrated that there was too much talking. The final selection was only made a few hours before we had to turn in our selections to GW.

Goblin Squad Member

theStormWeaver wrote:
They (Nihimon and Cheatle, I believe) were quite adamant that they not game the system in any way. I think Nihimon is being honest here.

Thank you for saying that. The truth is that every group we dealt with and every new applicant to T7V during this time have all gotten that same direction from T7V's leadership.

Goblin Squad Member

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Andius the Afflicted wrote:
Obvious Sam wrote:
Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.
Correction. I was the only one in their little organization with any foresight. And thank you for voicing that.

Did you just thank your own sock puppet account?

Goblin Squad Member

Dario wrote:
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
Obvious Sam wrote:
Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.
Correction. I was the only one in their little organization with any foresight. And thank you for voicing that.
Did you just thank your own sock puppet account?

I have better things to do than register new accounts just to say the same things I say on my main. But you can sit there and claim everyone who agrees with me is just my alt if that helps you sleep at night.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Obvious Sam wrote:

Clearly if someone has established themselves in a position and you move them from that position, that is a disadvantage.

All I hear is blah, blah, blah, oh crap we didn't think this through all that well and we probably should have listened to Andius in the first place because the political landscape has changed and we didn't anticipate it.

And this happens minutes after Mystical Awakening joins your rivals in Xeilias? Guess you guys really should have listened to Andius. He's probably the only one in your little organization with any foresight.

What's obviously stupid is to believe than Nihimon now wants to go North like Andius wanted.

Scarab Sages

Nihimon wrote:
<kabal> Bunibuni wrote:
I figure it is okay for them to choose to do that up to and including week 9 but totally unfair for them to do that week 10, when no one has a chance to react to them leaving their safe settlements.

I agree that it's obviously very important to ensure that other guilds have an opportunity to react to the new locations in the Settlement Draft list, and said as much earlier.

I suppose it's an open question of how much time they should have to react. Technically, they can change their draft order right up until midnight...

My idea (aside from all morality/bias of the question/questioner) is that Week 10 is already running, so one of The Big Tree cannot participate for the running week anymore.

In an ideal situation, if some of the Big Tree left the garanteed place to compete with others, it will enter in the next week right after the results of the current one. So every Company will have the same time to vote and articulate the positions of Draft. Considering that could have some Companies that cannot following the politics and changes during all the week, it will be unfair to change the draft in the middle of week.

This is my idea of fairness about the question for this last week.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I have better things to do than register new accounts just to say the same things I say on my main. But you can sit there and claim everyone who agrees with me is just my alt if that helps you sleep at night.

Fake account just created to praise Andius. No history, no goblin squad. What would YOU think ?

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
They can't react to a move until the move has happened, so any change to draft order after the week 9 cutoff will not be known by others until after the week 10 results are published. The smallest window is about 6.5 days.

I'm not suggesting they need to be able to react to "a move". I'm saying they need to be able to react to a change in the options on their Settlement Draft list.

As a hypothetical, consider the case of a guild that has been sitting with 1 member for 9 weeks, then has all their members show up to vote for them late Sunday night right before the Week 10 draft. Or even a number of "shadow guilds" sitting with 1 member waiting to precisely place a large number of votes for maximum effect. Those are very real possibilities right now.

They might be possibilities, but everyone in the landrush would be incredibly angry, since most of us aren't going to be obsessively checking our settlement drafts frequently to see if any new options have shown up.

Despite the hands-off attitude, I'd be incredibly irritated if Goblinworks let one of the three established sites re-enter the landrush without at least a week to react.

Ryan said if any of them decided to do it, he'd announce it to all. An announcement half an hour before the end of the whole thing would be a breach of our faith that I don't think Ryan would want to test.

Unless you have plan, Nihimon, and are trying to figure out if you can do it without asking outright, all this is doing is creating dissension needlessly.

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

We haven't had a thread break a thousand posts for a while, maybe that is what this is all about?

It would be Ryan Daney's crowning achievement! Yeah, Ryan!!

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Sunnfire wrote:
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
None of the three has grown significantly during Land Rush 2, Sunnfire, so everyone's dodged one bullet.

The Emyprean Order (117 votes), Pax Aeternum (78 votes), and The Seventh Veil (56 votes)

I find your definition of 'not growing significantly' interesting.

Hence my deletion, three minutes after posting (the time it took to find Wszebor's daily records), of my note, and my praying no one'd had time to quote it.

Epic Fail, mea culpa.

Goblin Squad Member

Kemedo wrote:

My idea (aside from all morality/bias of the question/questioner) is that Week 10 is already running, so one of The Big Tree cannot participate for the running week anymore.

We're only in week 9

Goblin Squad Member

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I would actually like to know if the big 3 still have this as an option myself. We're getting down to the wire and all of us knowing for sure one way or the other is a good thing. I do not see the problem with Nihimon asking this very valid question.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.

Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Audoucet wrote:
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I have better things to do than register new accounts just to say the same things I say on my main. But you can sit there and claim everyone who agrees with me is just my alt if that helps you sleep at night.
Fake account just created to praise Andius. No history, no goblin squad. What would YOU think ?

What is the point of even having this argument?

Goblin Squad Member

Harbinger of Chaos wrote:
...maybe that is what this is all about?

I was about to answer Duffy's question above in essentially the same way. How often, lately, have we had any thread with 50 posts in a day?

Nihimon activated this one...didn't take much.

Goblin Squad Member

Audoucet wrote:
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I have better things to do than register new accounts just to say the same things I say on my main. But you can sit there and claim everyone who agrees with me is just my alt if that helps you sleep at night.
Fake account just created to praise Andius. No history, no goblin squad. What would YOU think ?

There are multiple people in this community who have privately conveyed agreement with my position who I don't think wish to turn TEO/TSV against them. One of them probably felt like venting their pent up frustrations and made a separate account to do so.

Either that or it's someone with an anti-TEO/TSV agenda or who just likes to stir up fights agreeing with me to stir the pot.

Either way I can tell you it's not me. If you choose not to believe that then that's your problem.

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Harbinger of Chaos wrote:
...maybe that is what this is all about?

I was about to answer Duffy's question above in essentially the same way. How often, lately, have we had any thread with 50 posts in a day?

Nihimon activated this one...didn't take much.

In the time that it would take me to drive to work (1 hour 20 minutes) and I saw that a thread had 50 new posts, I knew one thing....

Xeen woke up, during my commute! That boy can certainly turn things up when he gets on a roll. Woot!!

Scarab Sages

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Kemedo wrote:

My idea (aside from all morality/bias of the question/questioner) is that Week 10 is already running, so one of The Big Tree cannot participate for the running week anymore.

We're only in week 9

In this case, I see no problem. Let them come!

Quote:


Aragon: Aragonians! Prepare for glory!
Random Settlement: Glory? Have you gone mad? There is no glory to be had now! Only retreat, or surrender or death!
Aragon: Well, that's an easy choice for us, Coward! Aragonians never retreat! Aragonians never surrender! Go spread the word. Let every Pathfinder Player assembled know the truth of this. Let each among them search his own soul. And while you're at it, search your own.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Valkenr wrote:

I think GW should either shorten or extend the Landrush, and not tell us when it is going to end.

Just kill the looming uncertainty of last minute upsets. I see no reason why each guild shouldn't be submitting honest pick-lists and having their full membership listed now.

I think that making those the rules from the start would have been better, but it is too late to make a change that major.

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

The only thing that I'm interested in knowing...

What does Hobs think?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

2 people marked this as a favorite.

@all: can we make an effort to not antagonize others here, rather than just maintaining barely plausible deniability?

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