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Come to the DM, as a group, and state:
"We came here to have fun. What this guy is doing, is making things no longer fun. He is destroying the entire point of the game."
Then, go to the player, with a similar:
"We came here to have fun. What you are doing, is making things no longer fun. You are destroying the entire point of the game."
If they both ignore this, I have an interesting suggestion.
Baleful Polymorph.
Have a fellow PC learn it, or buy a few scrolls of it. Use it on the PC whilst asleep.
He is neutralized, but not dead. No new jerkass PC, just a cute bunny mascot.
He asks to build a new PC, protest. Show him how his fun can be taken away, and what is like to be totally helpless to do anything about it.
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My honest suggestion is find a new game. Players like this seldom change and a GM that enjoys a player that is this disruptive doesn't deserve players.
If talking to them rationally doesn't work, you must just have to leave the group.
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As a GM I usually let the players sort things out for themselves within reason, but in your case, the player in question a someone that enjoys spoiling the game for others more than playing the game with others.
these kind of players are pure poison for a cooperative game, and in this case, he is enabled by a GM, so as the others have said, you may want to find another GM..maybe one of the large group you play with is up to the task.
and maybe a sudden exodus of players may show the GM the sense of reigning in the spoiler player...good luck, I wish I had a large group of players...some people have all the luck :(
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If it was just the problem player, it's a problem you could solve, but in this case it sounds like the GM is as big of a problem. You need to exercise the one piece of power that every player has over the GM and leave the game.
I don't think the DM sounds like a problem. Sounds like he's just all about letting it play, no matter what happens.
Rather than leaving (if nothing else works), you could just install another GM, or form a new group with everyone but those one or two that cause problems.
Inter party strife happens, and when its not turning into a game breaker, I am all for characters/players settle it themselves, but this if the OPs description is on the money is just a spoiler player, his character may as well be a villain for this group for all the actions he has done.
and if the players do off his character..dollars to doughnuts he will make a revenge character and repeat the cycle.
I have had these sorts in games many years ago, and I had to deal with him off line to prevent a game meltdown.
and as to punching him..hell I am all about wall to wall counseling, but physical assault over a game is pretty dumb..and depending on ages could lead to charges..so keep it in game.
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if you truly want to play the unpleasant card of in party cruelty...render him unconscious during a late night in camp, break or amputate his limbs,(amputate is better) heal him to prevent death by blood loss..and tow him around in a dog drawn cart..make sure he is well fed, and stays very alive..you may also want to remove his tounge..to keep him from trying to swallow it.
this may cause a few alignment shifts..but hey, the look on the players face will be priceless....
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Violence is not likely to work. Form a group without the two of them and find a new GM and inform him of what happened or select one among yourself.
Basically, you and your friends should just stop showing up and not tell them about it.
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First, I find myself tempted by Vamptastic.
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If this guy is such a jerk, why would your PCs want to keep him around? How about just calling a vote in the party to kick him out? (IC or even OOC)
Are ALL the other players against him? Make it clear to the GM just how much all of you resent his behavior, and that if he doesn't do anything about it, the other players will.
Kill the offending PC in his sleep. Coup de Grace with a Falchion for x3 critical damage. If he survives, surround him with several PCs and finish him off - he's unarmored and flanked.
If that offends your alignment, do this. Reserve some heavy ordnance spells/weapons/HP for after a tough monster fight, but make sure he doesn't realize that you're all still strong enough to take him down. Then the next time he's threatening to kill you because you're "weakened from combat", call his bluff. As soon as he initiates combat, slaughter him.
The guys is a jerk and the GM is jerk for not stopping it. Unless the listen to you and the rest of the group you are not going to get anywhere im afraid. Only options if this is the case are suck it up and stay, oust the GM and someone else take over or leave.
Killing the PC is not going to do any good as he will throw his teddy in the corner, make a new PC and do the same all over again and will more than likely be much worse, this will be the same if you cast a spell on him etc.
It's the players attitude and the GM's tolerence for it that's the problem not the PC he has made.
Come to an out-of-game agreement not to have player versus player conflict (if the vast majority of players feel that way, the GM will probably consent).
Or:
Treat his character the way you'd treat any suspicious NPC.
Defeat him in battle. If three of you can't defeat a solo rogue, you need to optimize more. If possible, keep him alive, since his next character will probably be just as bad. Disarm him, keep him permanently chained up and next time you're exploring a dungeon send him out ahead of the group to check for traps.
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You players to DM: Kick him, or we walk and set up our own game.
Then if he calls your bluff, do it. ANd I say kick him because he needs to understand that being a **** has consequences.
Give him a new name: Trapbait #1. New characters are good, just add one to the number.
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Bestow upon him the greatest insult one can bestow upon an enemy; to be ignored <- Gotta love Mass Effect.
Don't answer him when he's being a pointless, greedy, self-serving little git, just ignore him completely and if his character attacks yours, ignore that as well.
Then when (if?) he behaves himself well enough you, include him on the same level as everyone else.
If the GM interferes on behalf of the disruptive player you now have the basics to argue that he should stay out of it in the same way he stays out of it when the guy's a problem to the rest of the group.
If the GM insists on backing the problem player still, the issue isn't one you can solve and you should just pack up and go, hard as that will be.
I have to ask: Is the problem player a close friend of the GM? And how do the rest of you stand with the guy (GM)?
"We all get up early and leave *insert PC's name* behind"
And if he plays another PC called Flexi Jerkov, rinse and repeat...
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The more I think about the funnier the limbless, toungless theif in a dog cart becomes..and the more satisfying.
I played with a fella kinda like this miscreant , he ran a elven thief, and he was a total tool, our GM was a very hands off type and we had to settle it ourselves, so after one episode where he looted everyone's packs, killed our mounts, and poisoned the paladins wine. (back in the day of save or die poisons) which killed the paladin that morning.
this guy disappeared into a nearby city..sold everything, deposited the money in a very secure banking establishment, and then returned with a concocted story of a group that captured him, stole our stuff, and he barely escaped from.....
well based on this characters previous actions..we were dubious to say the least, so we took the paladins body to his nearest temple for a proper funeral (no raise dead in this campaign), and the Head priest also doubted the Theives tale, and did a little mumbo jumbo and discerned the thief was lying (big surprise.
so he gave us a writ for the Thieving murderer, and we hung him from a tree until he was dead..dead..dead.
Player made another character just like the other with the same name..and planned on I guess doing the same stuff, at that point we told him the party was full, and if he wanted to play the GM would have to run him solo on other nights.
But anyway. Amputate him, de-tounge him and put him in a dog cart..better yet make it a pig cart..and let street urchins ride on him in towns...and put a dress on him..with a tall princess hat.
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The issue with a PVP solution is that the GM is already enabling his behavior, and it's entirely possible that the GM will come to his rescue during any such activity (NPCs charge in and intervene, etc.), just to prolong his own 'fun.'
Discuss it first with the other players, to get some sort of consensus. Then with the jerk and / or GM.
If the jerk is unwilling to change his ways and if the GM is *not* inclined to do anything about it, and yet is also not inclined to intervene to protect the jerk, and out of game solutions continue to fail (i.e. you can't kick out the player, and the GM keeps inviting him back) then either find another GM, or plan for the first 10 minutes of every play session being murdering the jerk's new character, and follow it up with a 'You killed Kenny!' joke before going on to playing the game.
PVP should be the last option. But if you're going to go there, make sure everyone is in on it, and the GM isn't going to fudge things to protect his boo.
Try and talk it out as a group.
Kill him off as a group.
Leave the game as a group.
Start a new game as a group.
Two can play at that game, if your party is going to allow a scoundrel like that help them on their quest then that's their problem... not the players but the characters.
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Dude, he tried to kill the party once already, and stated his intention do do it again?
He gets assigned Last Watch that night, and doesn't wake up, ever. Frankly, after his threat, the next words out of my mouth would have been "Roll Initiative" after moving to optimum combat range.
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Talk it over like adults, then simple have the party give him the boot.
Just have the party IC tell him that they are no longer going to adventure with that PC.
I agree that your best bet may be to just walk away. If three of you are upset enough maybe you have the start of the next group? With that many people i'm sure you can find one or two more people to make a more reasonable group.
Don't sink to his level (I say, hypocritically).
Just tell him what the issue is, then decline to invite him again.
This is the benefit to being the GM. You can just tell this guy to stop it or get lost.
If multiple people are not having fun, and you've already made your position clear to the disruptive player and the unresponsive DM, it's time to start a new group, without either or both disruptive members. Life's too short, and gaming time too hard to come by to ruin it for the sake of one player living out his antisocial fantasies.
DMing isn't as hard as it seems. And there's only one way to start: just jump in the deep end.
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You've received a multitude of good advice already, but let's be honest: 6-10 people in a group, and you and 3 other people are sick of it.
We're in a 4-person group right now and it's the best campaign we've ever run. I'm the GM and run a GMNPC, the other 3 are players, and we should finish off Rise of the Runelords this month. And it's a great starting AP for new GMs. There's tons of support on these boards.
(1) Tell the GM and the player that you are unhappy with his behavior, and if he continues to abuse the other players, you will stop coming.
(2) When they ignore you or laugh at you, follow through, form your own group, and game somewhere else. Back in my grad school days, we had no money, but some photocopied rules, a cup-o-communal dice, and a 28" x 40" table was enough.
With Paizo's PRD publicly available, you don't even need the photocopies any more. Just pool your funds and shell out for the RotRL AE and run it yourself.
We'll help.
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A good GM doesn't allow a single player to ruin everyone else's fun. You have a bad GM. I strongly discourage you from engaging the issue in-character. Making characters and conspiracies to kill his character will only create a cycle of in-fighting, which is precisely what the troll wants. You come to the table to have 4-6 hours of weekly fun. This drama is not worth your time.
Gather a group of other players that feel the same way and agree to give the GM an ultimatum: kick the troll or we leave to form our own game.
The only way to beat a troll is to not play his game.
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First, I find myself tempted by Vamptastic.
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If this guy is such a jerk, why would your PCs want to keep him around? How about just calling a vote in the party to kick him out? (IC or even OOC)
Are ALL the other players against him? Make it clear to the GM just how much all of you resent his behavior, and that if he doesn't do anything about it, the other players will.
Kill the offending PC in his sleep. Coup de Grace with a Falchion for x3 critical damage. If he survives, surround him with several PCs and finish him off - he's unarmored and flanked.
If that offends your alignment, do this. Reserve some heavy ordnance spells/weapons/HP for after a tough monster fight, but make sure he doesn't realize that you're all still strong enough to take him down. Then the next time he's threatening to kill you because you're "weakened from combat", call his bluff. As soon as he initiates combat, slaughter him.
Falchions are only x2. Besides, it sounds to me like this PC could have already killed the entire party in their sleep if it really wanted to. I suspect there is some reason he hasn't. I would say the party might get wasted even if they all attack him if it's an optimizer but uh... OP said it's a rogue. An optimized rogue probably couldn't even kill a poorly made fighter four levels below it.