Definitely start a new group. A DM that doesn't care about the fun of all the players isn't worth playing with.
Start a new group.
Cut out the offending player and the irresponsible GM.
Resume having fun.
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I don't think the DM sounds like a problem. Sounds like he's just all about letting it play, no matter what happens.
Which is a gigantic problem in this case.
The type of player the OP is describing is not that uncommon. I have had these guys at my own table. Trust me when I say they do not change, or at least not easily, and not quickly. And they usually end up destroying entire groups, or worse, getting in anything from party-wrecking arguments to outright fist-throwing with other players.
A good GM must be ready to reel in problem players, and he must be concerned with the fun and comfort of the ENTIRE GROUP.
"Just letting it play, no matter what happens," in this case is tantamount to begging for your game to end a bloody death and putting a gun to make it happen in the hands of an ass.
The GM is arguably the BIGGEST problem here.
Perhaps I can phrase this in a way that creates better understanding through context. "Just letting it play, no matter what happens" is a style that ought to be reserved for GMing trustworthy, mature players. The player in question is neither, has stated that he is neither, has stated his desire to go on being an immature, awful player out for only his own enjoyment, and especially sadistic, to boot.
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Got to agree with everyone who's said that a GM who allows (revels in?) one disruptive player wrecking the fun of anybody at his table isn't a very good GM.
Which reminds me, I need to talk to one of my players.
Anyway, both the GM and the player are a problem: the player by causing it, and the GM for allowing it to happen.
DO NOT SIT BY AND LET IT HAPPEN.
Don't do anything in-character. That's just playing to both this player and the GM's desires. This is an OOC problem, and needs to be dealt with by OOC means.
"The behaviour of <player's> character is ruining our fun. We are here to have fun. As such, we have no desire to play in this game any longer. Thank you, and goodbye."
I ran into this sort of problem... ten years ago? I was playing at a local game shop with two teens that were a few years older than the rest of the group (we were 14-15). They thought it was hilarious to kill other characters, steal from other characters, and generally be dicks. The GM (in his early 20s) allowed it to go forward and always seemed to find it amusing. Eventually it became pretty clear that he favored the two older players.
This isn't a game problem. This is a personal problem. Talk to the other players privately. Confirm they are not enjoying this. At the start of the next session announce that it stops or you're done.
"Hey, look, I'm not having much fun with ____ playing really disruptive characters that keep killing party members, and neither is anyone else. Either it needs to stop, and we need to move towards a healthier party dynamic, or I'm going to walk away and start my own table."
At that point either:
1. It stops.
or
2. You go pick up a copy of the AP of your choice and start running a game (probably with the other players). You'll make mistakes as a GM, but they will be your mistakes, honest mistakes, and you'll have a lot more fun than this. Going at it from an IC aspect isn't going to fix your problems, which are twofold - jerk GM and jerk player.
The DM invites him since we play at a card shop. The DM has no problems with him trying to do it. The other plays do but won't stop him because he could kill them in a fight. Others are to scared to die because they like getting experience and like their character.
I wanna DM but I am in no way prepared for it. Just because of situations like this.
But situations like this are actually quite easy for a DM to handle: "Dude, stop being an a%#~&~* or leave my game." If one or two warnings don't work, you can resort to, "The gods strike you dead: you're character can't be raised. Buh-bye."
I actually can't fathom a DM letting a player get away with threatening to murder the entire party. That ends the storyline, ruins the plotline I was took so long to set up, destroys the in-game wealth-by-level balance, and damages the out-of-game group dynamic. Seriously, the game is non-recoverably ruined if a DM lets this happen, and I'm kind of concerned that the DM doesn't seem to realize that. How does he expect to build another party and get them into the plotline hook? If he running only all-combat, random encounters?
Years ago, we had a disruptive player like this our gaming group: every game ended up with him plotting to kill off the other members of the party--even the Champions game where they were supposed to be a group of superheroes. Every game ended with "Well, OK, the whole party is dead, you can't survive the rest of the encounters by yourself, so you're dead, and we're done here." We gave Paranoia a try, but even a game designed around killing other the party members couldn't survive this a%!!#$~. The group as a whole disbanded.
Side note:
If you want to form a new group but feel like you need some support, you might talk to the local Pathfinder Society group: PFS has a strict "no PVP" policy and a "no bullying/don't be an ass" policy, so they can probably give you some advice on how to handle players like this. You can also start running sanctioned PFS scenarios yourself, if you feel like you need some backing to enforce a "no-PVP" rule. That way, if anyone gives you trouble, you can ask the PFS coordinators to handle it for you.
Falchions are only x2. Besides, it sounds to me like this PC could have already killed the entire party in their sleep if it really wanted to. I suspect there is some reason he hasn't. I would say the party might get wasted even if they all attack him if it's an optimizer but uh... OP said it's a rogue. An optimized rogue probably couldn't even kill a poorly made fighter four levels below it.First, I find myself tempted by Vamptastic.
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If this guy is such a jerk, why would your PCs want to keep him around? How about just calling a vote in the party to kick him out? (IC or even OOC)
Are ALL the other players against him? Make it clear to the GM just how much all of you resent his behavior, and that if he doesn't do anything about it, the other players will.
Kill the offending PC in his sleep. Coup de Grace with a Falchion for x3 critical damage. If he survives, surround him with several PCs and finish him off - he's unarmored and flanked.
If that offends your alignment, do this. Reserve some heavy ordnance spells/weapons/HP for after a tough monster fight, but make sure he doesn't realize that you're all still strong enough to take him down. Then the next time he's threatening to kill you because you're "weakened from combat", call his bluff. As soon as he initiates combat, slaughter him.
I was about to say... Why are 5-9 other characters afraid of a rogue? Are the other characters level 1? Granted, the rogue might be over geared if he looted the previous party, but by sheer action economy the party should be able to stop him.
I would say that part of the reason this player is a problem is because he can get away with it. If the party stands up to him, he should probably back down.
People also get carried away sometimes under the guise of "playing their character". If you kill him, maybe he'll roll up a character with a different personality. Maybe he'll "get it out of his system", and be a better player. I would give him another chance, and if he then rolls up a "revenge character" or something else that disrupts the party, then go to the extremes the other posters have suggested.
You've received a multitude of good advice already, but let's be honest: 6-10 people in a group, and you and 3 other people are sick of it.
We're in a 4-person group right now and it's the best campaign we've ever run. I'm the GM and run a GMNPC, the other 3 are players, and we should finish off Rise of the Runelords this month. And it's a great starting AP for new GMs. There's tons of support on these boards.
(1) Tell the GM and the player that you are unhappy with his behavior, and if he continues to abuse the other players, you will stop coming.
(2) When they ignore you or laugh at you, follow through, form your own group, and game somewhere else. Back in my grad school days, we had no money, but some photocopied rules, a cup-o-communal dice, and a 28" x 40" table was enough.
With Paizo's PRD publicly available, you don't even need the photocopies any more. Just pool your funds and shell out for the RotRL AE and run it yourself.We'll help.
Yes, 3 players and 1 GM works for our group too. The trick with DMPCs is to take their turns based on what the players suggest, and not to role-play.
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Leave. Leave. Leave leave leave leave leave leave leave.
Seriously, if the GM is onboard with him being an asshat, take whatever other players are fed up and go game somewhere else. It'll be a pain at first, but you'll be glad you did. This isn't an in-game-solvable issue, or, very probably, an out-of-game solvable one, short of leaving.
I got a text today and one of the other people there asked if I knew anything about it. I played dumb and told him no... He called me upset and asked if I would help kill him off. Now I have an inquisitor to help.
Killing a level 6 should yield a nice chunk of xp :D
Lovecheese45, many of the good people possess years of experience with dealing with troublesome players and came here came with great advice. Listen to them.
Leave the game.
The troll wants you to try to kill his character. Even if you succeed, he'll make a revenge character, which will plunge the campaign into a never-ending series of PvP. You'll spend more time trying to kill each other's characters rather than adventure and roleplay. If a campaign like this sounds unappealing to you, then take your friends and leave immediately. Otherwise, you have no room to complain about whatever befalls your gaming experience in this group.
Killing a level 6 should yield a nice chunk of xp :D
Look at this sentence.
You're becoming just like him.
Killing a level 6 should yield a nice chunk of xp :DLook at this sentence.
You're becoming just like him.
That comment is meant to be ironic. I hope.
Everytime he threatens another PC, incapacitate him. Non-lethal down to unconcious. No matter how min-maxed he is, unless he's cheating, he can't viably take on 3 other PC's of equal level.
Don't kill him. Then he brings in another character with a vendetta. But, take away his fun every time he threatens you. He'll learn, or he'll stay unconcious for a long, long time.
I'm playing with a large group of people... roughly 6-10 on a weekly basis. We have this one person who plays his character in a way that "If his character feels you are helping him, he would like to keep you around". Kind of a selfish character who looks out for himself. Eh, who cares but it really picked a nerve with a bunch of us... but the DM doesn't really care.
Last game session this guy ran away when the group was attacked by a giant rock golem thing. The golem destroyed the group... but did not kill them (I have a feeling it was the GM padding the die that kept everyone just under 0 hp). This rogue came back and attempted to kill the whole party ... just so he can become more powerful by looting and selling the gear.
The DM thinks its hilarious and he's letting it happen.
Tonight, three of us were clearing a dungeon and he came in. He said he didn't wanna join because it was dangerous but as soon as we killed the BBEG and opened the chest, he jumped in and demanded loot. The three of us told him no, it's ours because we did the fight, he said "I'll just kill your characters off then".
I like grouping with a bunch of the people but seriously... if I get killed because of some greedy whiner, I'm probably going to stop playing. It's giving a bad taste of the game. I understand the point of the game is for everyone to have fun but it's not fun if one person kills everyone off just to get a +147998 weapon.
The three of us made it clear that it is a bad idea to do it... outside of the game... to him... but I have a feeling he'll try anyway with the knowledge of our previous gaming experiences.
How can we, the players, stop this? He's also extremely min/maxed as in... somehow having a +17 to perception as a rogue at level 6 and having 26 AC, +11/9/12 to fort/reflex/will saves...
Suggestions?
I used to GM for similarly large parties. There was a core group of guys who got along great. A few times there were problems with one or two people getting together and building characters who sound very similar to the one you are describing. This happened several times and as I remember this is how it was handled each time:
1 - Chronic antagonistic PC stole from other PCs in their sleep, then spit in another PC's face when confronted. He was thrown through a second story window off a waterfall and died.
2 - Same guy new character built solely to be antagonistic. Was blatantly murdered by another PC.
3 - A different character was told by a unanimous party that he had to leave or it would turn violent. He was forced to re-roll.
4 - Another antagonistic character started a fight with a dwarf fighter, and was promptly cut in half.
Additionally, in most cases, new people who were antagonistic and went out of their way to derail the rest of the party and the campaign were given two or three chances to straighten up. Generally these "chances" came in the form of being forced to re-roll characters. After that the group "disbanded" and "reformed" without calling that individual back.
...
So what's my advice? I think the three of you should have immediately killed him when he threatened to kill you in your sleep. When he re-rolls a new character with a vengeance immediately kill it. Kill every character he rolls until he changes his attitude, leaves the gaming group on his own, or the DM pulls his head out and deals with it.
If the DM keeps guarding the guy's butt and saying you can't kill him when he started the PvP, then get up and leave AS A GROUP. DM's favoring one PC blatantly violates the trust of a game.
Also this. If your GM is allowing this one guy to ruin everyone else's fun he is a garbage GM. He is just as much a problem as the player. Let him know, in no uncertain terms, that if he can't handle the group properly he will be GMing himself.
Direct your GM to this thread...may open his eyes a bit.
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Death is to fast and forgettable....pig cart...dress..pointy princess hat. that memory will stick and give you guys something to laugh about.
Humiliation and humor is powerful stuff, besides its gonna play out the same regardless.
He will make another character just like this one and repeat all the same crapola.
You have to address this to the GM, everything else is urinating in the wind.
Oh.P.S. make sure the dress and hat are pink or baby blue.
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first off , imo adults should be able to segregate in and out of character personalities. a person who is you best friend in real life should be able to play a selfish dick who hates your character and not let it effect the relationship out of game.
if this guy is sitting there being a dick out of character and using out of character threats "do this or im going to kill your character in his sleep!" thats not ok and he needs to be talked to. on the other hand if the character is making the threats "do this or ill kill you" that needs to handled in game and my result in a character death, thats the nature of Role-play if you dont like the idea of your character dying, then out of character try to set in game rules about PvP actions.
i personally don't see an issue with Role-Playing a dick or bad guy, as long as the player's personality isnt cause of the issue.
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You could just start your own game and invite the rest of the party to your game.
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AM NOT "AM BARBARIAN," BUT AM OTHER BARBARIAN, AND AM KNOW SNEAKY-MAN AM SQUISHY LIKE PANCAKE.
SNEAKY-MAN AM NOT CASTY, BUT AM SMASH JUST AS MUCH AS CASTY. AM TURN SNEAKY-MAN INTO PANCAKE, AND AM EAT SNEAKY-MAN LIKE PANCAKE TOO.
AM KNOW SNEAKY-MAN AM NOT GOOD AT SMASH, AM LAUGH AT SNEAKY-MAN HIT ME WITH POKEY STICK, AND AM SMASH SNEAKY-MAN.
AM ALSO LAUGH AT OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN FOR NOT SMASH SNEAKY-MAN WHEN SNEAKY-MAN TALK ABOUT SMASH BARBARIAN. AM WONDER IF OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN AM NOT REAL BARBARIAN, AS BARBARIAN AM SMASH NOT-BARBARIANS WHEN NOT-BARBARIANS TALK ABOUT SMASH BARBARIAN.
BUT AM FORGIVE OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN NOW, AS OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN AM STILL BARBARIAN. BUT OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN AM BETTER SMASH SNEAKY-MAN SOON, OR OTHER BARBARIAN AM SMASH SNEAKY-MAN FOR HIM. THEN SMASH OTHER OTHER BARBARIAN FOR NOT SMASH SNEAKY-MAN.
There's a line that a guy who used to game with Gary Gygax was fond of saying. Repeat this three times:
"No gaming is better than bad gaming."
"No gaming is better than bad gaming."
"No gaming is better than bad gaming."
Follow that advice. In game actions won't fix an out-of-game problem, especially when one of the people encouraging the problem is the GM. Give an ultimatum, and then take everyone who is not a problem, and leave.
Gotta agree with The Black Raven. The GM permits and promotes in this case.
I'd move on. Life's too short to waste time on d-bags.
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Case in point, just to reinforce the "bad GM" juju that's going around:
We have (had) a player who openly declared himself the "only real roleplayer" in the group, interrupted anyone else who was trying to roleplay/monologue, and has a gaming style of actively trying to disrupt whatever story the GM is trying to tell, and power gaming to the nth degree. Two of us refused to GM the group any more because of him.
Along came GothBard, who, upon becoming sick of his shenanigans, just declared at the table, "No interrupting each other. No speaking out of turn. I will be telling a story. If you attempt to derail it, the consequences will befall your PC."
By apparent miracle (to the rest of us), he became an exemplary player.
So you know all those people who are saying you have a bad GM?
They're right.
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Please, people. If a player is being self-importantly problematic, then torturing and humiliating his character will solve nothing.
In-game, you'd be letting his evil justify your evil; out of it, you'd be retaliating in kind and giving the GM more perverse jollies.
I'd agree that sending players you like and trust text messages, but to leave instead of taking sides. If one of your friends is inspired to GM, so much the better.
If you want an in-character reason to leave, I'd suggest splitting up in town, perhaps telling the offensive one to find his own minions or to stop the perfidy. If you start a big PvP fight, no matter the outcome, you run the risk of the player or GM looking back fondly on it.
All you'd need would be three or four others who agree with you, and you can leave and start your own thing. Just don't try to hurt anyone's feelings in revenge. Be the better player, and others might be more inclined to agree with you.
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Ok, just something I felt should be pointed out.
This is a game of MAKE BELIEVE!! He relies on you guys saying you accept his actions.
Don't want him to kill you? Just ignore EVERYTHING he says. Play like he's not there. Let him scream and rage and rant, but do absolutely nothing. He'll get the point after a while.
If the DM want's to encourage him and referances his actions or anything he does, ignore that too. He wants to act like a child then he no longer gets to play. He doesnt want to leave? Act like he's not there. Make sure everyone else does the same. Once he gets the hint he'll either change his tune or leave.
He can not do anything to your characters you dont allow him to.
I'm not sure how well that can work. Ignoring a player with the DM's inclusion could be effective. But, ignoring the DM means you are not really playing the game.
I guess you could stage a sit-in, of sorts. Just have your characters refuse to take any game actions until there are some changes in behavior. That could easily result in a lot of character death. And you will lose one night's fun, for sure.
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I'm not sure how well that can work. Ignoring a player with the DM's inclusion could be effective. But, ignoring the DM means you are not really playing the game.
I guess you could stage a sit-in, of sorts. Just have your characters refuse to take any game actions until there are some changes in behavior. That could easily result in a lot of character death. And you will lose one night's fun, for sure.
You can just inform his PC (IC)he's no longer part of the party. In form the player why OOC. Then refuse to adventure with him.
Do not kill his PC. That's exactly what he wants.
The best thing you can do is walk away, you and the other players look for another DM/Game.
It's one thing for the guy being a idiot, but it's even worse when the DM allows it.
Let the DM and this guy keep each other amused.
Remember you're there to have fun.
The three of us told him no, it's ours because we did the fight, he said "I'll just kill your characters off then".
You guys have a metagaming problem.
You the players shouldn't be saying anything about loot divying. Your characters need to tell his character he doesn't get any loot. If his character responds to your character "I'll just kill you off then," then your characters should respond accordingly by their alignment, possibly including sticking a sword in his character's throat.
Your GM will be fine with this, by the way.
I'm playing with a large group of people... roughly 6-10 on a weekly basis. We have this one person who plays his character in a way that "If his character feels you are helping him, he would like to keep you around". Kind of a selfish character who looks out for himself. Eh, who cares but it really picked a nerve with a bunch of us... but the DM doesn't really care.
Last game session this guy ran away when the group was attacked by a giant rock golem thing. The golem destroyed the group... but did not kill them (I have a feeling it was the GM padding the die that kept everyone just under 0 hp). This rogue came back and attempted to kill the whole party ... just so he can become more powerful by looting and selling the gear.
The DM thinks its hilarious and he's letting it happen.
Tonight, three of us were clearing a dungeon and he came in. He said he didn't wanna join because it was dangerous but as soon as we killed the BBEG and opened the chest, he jumped in and demanded loot. The three of us told him no, it's ours because we did the fight, he said "I'll just kill your characters off then".
I like grouping with a bunch of the people but seriously... if I get killed because of some greedy whiner, I'm probably going to stop playing. It's giving a bad taste of the game. I understand the point of the game is for everyone to have fun but it's not fun if one person kills everyone off just to get a +147998 weapon.
The three of us made it clear that it is a bad idea to do it... outside of the game... to him... but I have a feeling he'll try anyway with the knowledge of our previous gaming experiences.
How can we, the players, stop this? He's also extremely min/maxed as in... somehow having a +17 to perception as a rogue at level 6 and having 26 AC, +11/9/12 to fort/reflex/will saves...
Suggestions?
Kill him.
Preferably in character.
I deal with things very different. I am a wizard. I color spray if before level 4. Level 6? oh boy all sorts of evil vile things you can do. Deep Slumber/Hold Person/ into Coup de grace.
or suggestion into "not be a dick"
or get a piece of loot you know he will want. and cast multiple explosive runes on them. or follow him if he ever goes scouting and unleash a glitterdust above his position while his enemies gib him.